I decided for now I'm only going to experiment with two developers: PMK and ID-11. I'll pick the one I like best after using up a batch of both. I have a question on the ID-11. I've been to Ilford and the massive development chart. I find no data for shooting HP5+ at EI200. I thought this film was like TriX, the "true" speed is a lot closer to 200 than 400. What would be the starting point to try and optimize gradation, acutance and resolution (roughly in that order - I don't particularly care how much you "see" the grain).

So for those who use HP5+ and ID-11 on a regular basis, what do like for dilution; 1:1, 1:2, or 1:3? What EI did you settle on to optimize the film (ie, without trying to "push" anything)?

Thanks.

John

-- John Kilmer (jkilmer@usadatanet.net), February 23, 2001

Answers

I shoot this film and find that it is very close to true 400.

That is with my Camera Canon A2, and my developer.

D-76, 68 degrees, 8.5 min.

I get really great negs, but... that is me and my equipment. Unfortunatly, all meters are not the same, it does seem to be very forgiving though.

The spec sheet on this film on Ilfords site recommends the following if you expose below 400.

Perceptol-Stock-68 Degrees

@50 9min @100 9min @200 11min

I have never shot below 400 so I cannot tell you what type of results to expect. But I think you will be happy with the film shooting @ 400 and adjusting your development times. I shoot a lot of sports and find this to be a great all round film (except in no flash situations)IMHO.

-- Jeff Riehl (jtriehl@netzero.net), February 23, 2001.

I get a full EI 400 for Hp5+ in D-76H (D-76, ID-11) at both the 1:1 and 1:3 dilution, speedpoint is the traditional .10 DU above fb&f for a Zone I exposure using a Wallace Expo-Disc, developed to "normal" contrast.

-- John Hicks (jbh@magicnet.net), February 23, 2001.

John, what difference in the negative do you see between the 1:1 and the 1:3 dilution? I just got my "Darkroom Cookbook" today. I just got notice from Amazon that my "Film Developer Cookbook" is on the way. Anyway, in one part Anchell mentions that "(long development times with highly dilute developers creates a smoother, finer-grained image)" which is just the opposite of what I have been told in the past regarding grain. All in all, I am very dissappointed with the book. Too general for my purposes. I was looking for more information and recommendations on what to try with HP5+. I'm more mystified than ever. Hopefully the film cookbook will give me more guidance. In any case, does your observations go with Anchell's? Does the 1:3 dilution give you smoother tonalities and finer looking grain? Thanks.

John

-- John Kilmer (jkilmer@usadatanet.net), February 23, 2001.

> what difference in the negative do you see between the 1:1 and the 1:3 dilution

What's really surprised me about this is that I _don't_ see any really significant difference between 1:1 and 1:3 with HP5+. I think 1:3 negs may have slightly higher acutance and slightly more grain, but otoh since I'm always using different formats I can't even say that for sure.

At any rate, I haven't seen any reason at all to not use 1:3.

My times for HP5+ in D-76H are: 1:1 13'/68F and 1:3 18'15"/68F. I mix it with distilled water and usually dilute it to working strength with distilled water.

In an odd convenience convergence, Delta 100 and TMX develop to very close to the same CI in D-76H 1:3 at the HP5+ time, so I can develop them all together. At the 1:1 dilution they require different times.

The only potential problem I can think of is that the 1:3 dilution may be more sensitive to agitation problems but since I use what appears to be a streak-proof agitation method (half-full tank, inversion) for rollfilm I haven't had any problem with that. I also use continuous rotary agitation for sheetfilm; again, no problems.

-- John Hicks (jbh@magicnet.net), February 24, 2001.

> "(long development times with highly dilute developers creates a smoother, finer-grained image)" which is just the opposite of what I have been told in the past regarding grain.

To specifically address this, there's been two schools of thought regarding development time and developers that contain sodium sulfite. One is that the sulfite concentration is predominant while the other is that the contact time has much more effect than the concentration. Personally I think the two considerations pretty much balance each other out regarding graininess, while the weaker developer can allow more edge/adjacency effects to enhance acutance.

I'm not any sort of chemist so I can't tell you which way it really is, and of course I may be full of it.

-- John Hicks (jbh@magicnet.net), February 24, 2001.

Just wanted to add a confirmation to John's observations on ID-11 @ 1:3. We have also found that the grain acutance increases at the greater dilution when compared to straight or 1:1. Our method is: 1 min pre soak in H2O, then 15 min in ID-11 / 1:3 @ 74F (3 1/2 gallon tank) w/ very gentle agitaion for first 30 secs. Then 5 - 10 sec. every 30 - 45 or 60 seconds depending on contrast desired.

-- jim megargee (jmegargee@nyc.rr.com), February 25, 2001.

If I may jump in- thanks. John- your streak-proof agitation- What does that involve(half-full tank, inversion)- Half-full of chem, with a "full" load (max#) of film in tank- constant inversion?- or slightly more than half-full with chem, and a "half" load (max/2) of film in tank, normal agitation?- Thanks- MikeD

-- Mike DeVoe (karma77@att.net), February 25, 2001.

> streak-proof agitation

For example, use a double-size tank and put a reel loaded with film on the bottom and an empty spacer reel on top. Use just enough solution to cover the bottom reel.

When you pour the developer in, bang the tank a couple of times, then invert continuously for the first 30 seconds, followed by two inversions every 30 seconds or four inversions every minute, whichever you prefer.

All that's required is the big air space; seven reels in an eight-reel tank will work ok as long as there's one-reel-worth of air space.

This doesn't cause any sprocket-hole streaks or defects etc; actually those are caused by insufficient agitation.

The only potential drawbacks I can think of is that it may cause excessive aerial oxidation when using PMK or another developer that's very easily oxidized, and it may cause excessive foaming with some developers. The cure to foaming is a drop or two of Edwal LFN in the developer.

-- John Hicks (jbh@magicnet.net), February 25, 2001.

Thanks, John. Much appreciated.

-- Mike DeVoe (karma77@att.net), February 27, 2001.