I got suspicious of this Darrell Scott character this afternoon after giving some thought to Ain't's rather vehement defense of him. Seemed to me that if Mr. Scott was really running an above-board 501(c)(3) non-profit organization, then he should be able to cough up a Form 990, which is the non-profit equivalent of a publicly-traded company's Annual Report. A Form 990 is supposed to be provided to any member of the public who asks for it. It's not a secret thing, it's an FOIA matter.

I got Mr. Scott's e-mail address, and did EXACTLY as Ain't challenged Tarzan to do -- I e-mailed Mr. Scott. And then I asked him if I could have a copy of his Form 990 mailed or faxed to me. I gave him a mailing address and a fax number.

Did I get a copy? Nope.

All I got (like Charlie Brown's rock in his Trick-or-Treat bag) was a tersely-worded e-mail response saying "why exactly do you want it?" Doesn't matter. It's a public document. I replied that it didn't matter, because the law says I can get a copy simply by asking for it. I also repeated my request for a copy.

I know for a fact that in California, 501(c)(3) organizations aren't even allowed to ASK the question that Mr. Scott asked me. I don't know the law in Colorado, but it sure does seem suspicious to me that Mr. Scott isn't being more forthcoming.

I also called the IRS and asked if Mr. Scott was listed in Publication 78, which is a list of all charities that are tax-deductible. That includes 501(c)(3)s, 521s, basically any type of non-profit organization. They said he wasn't listed. Now, in all fairness, he could have gotten onto that list since it was last printed, but knowing that he wasn't real interested in giving me a copy of his Form 990, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that maybe he really isn't a 501(c)(3).

Like so much else about this man, it just plain looks suspicious.

-- Already Done Happened (oh.yeah@it.did.com), February 22, 2001

Answers

Yoo-hoo, Ain't? Did you miss this one?

-- Miserable SOB (misery@misery.com), February 23, 2001.

Ain't is probably upset after having posted this little gem:

"You really need to read and listen to this man more before you convict him. Please don't be so quick to pre judge him."

"Did you know he never asks for or accepts a speaking fee for any of his appearances? I believe he does sell some tee shirts to cover his traveling expences. Airfair...hotel stay etc."

"This guy IS one of the truly squeaky clean good guys with a heart for God."

-- Ain't Gonna Happen (Not Here Not@ever.com), February 16, 2001.

Objection, Your Honor! Asked and answered!

-- Already Done Happened (oh.yeah@it.did.com), February 23, 2001.

Already Done Happened, did you bother to use your real name or did you give Mr. Scott your fake handle?

-- dudesy (dudesy@37.com), February 23, 2001.

Wow! Good work, Already. It will be interesting to know when, if ever, you actually get that form. I think I'll request it, too.

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewithouta.net), February 23, 2001.

I gave him a real name, a real mailbox, a real address and a real fax number. He could not have responded to me without the real e-mail address.

I suppose he could turn around and post that address somewhere and spam the living daylights out of me, but that wouldn't change the fact that he balked at providing me with a copy of a document that he is LEGALLY OBLIGATED to give me.

Unless, of course, he really isn't running a 501(c)(3) charity at all. This, of course, would put him and his donors in all sorts of trouble with the IRS. Food for thought.

-- Already Done Happened (oh.yeah@it.did.com), February 23, 2001.

I also called the IRS and asked if Mr. Scott was listed in Publication 78, which is a list of all charities that are tax-deductible. That includes 501(c)(3)s, 521s, basically any type of non-profit organization. They said he wasn't listed.

Funny, when I called them they told me it is normal proceedure to answer these type of questions on a call back basis by an IRS representitive. IN THREE BUSINESS DAYS!

Well I personally have absolutly NO idea what a form 990 is; if it is; who it's for, or whether anyone can get what you are asking for because of an entities 501(c)(3) status.

I have called the IRS and they say someone will respond to my question within three business days. Until then, you will forgive me if I don't take your word as 'gospel' until I hear back from the IRS first hand.

All I got (like Charlie Brown's rock in his Trick-or-Treat bag) was a tersely-worded e-mail response saying "why exactly do you want it?"

Without knowing the legalities behind your request, I'm afraid I would tell you the same thing if you came knocking on my door.

Like so much else about this man, it just plain looks suspicious.

Why? Because he hasn't invited YOU to personally audit his books?

-- Ain't Gonna Happen (Not Here Not@ever.com), February 23, 2001.

"Funny, when I called them they told me it is normal proceedure to answer these type of questions on a call back basis by an IRS representitive. IN THREE BUSINESS DAYS!"

Well, then, get back to us in three business days and tell us what they tell you. The IRS already TOLD ME that he's not listed in Pub 78; when they tell you the same thing, then all your bluster will be for naught, won't it?

"Well I personally have absolutly NO idea what a form 990 is; if it is; who it's for, or whether anyone can get what you are asking for because of an entities 501(c)(3) status."

Your ignorance does not change the fact of what a Form 990 is, or how it is obtained. Mr. Scott's organization, if it truly IS a 501(c)(3) non-profit, is LEGALLY OBLIGATED to send me a copy of their form 990 whenever I ask for it. If you are ignorant, then educate yourself. Don't use your ignorance as a shield.

"I have called the IRS and they say someone will respond to my question within three business days. Until then, you will forgive me if I don't take your word as 'gospel' until I hear back from the IRS first hand."

Sure. Fair enough. And if he really isn't listed, then what do I get? How about an unconditional apology from you and a public repudiation of Mr. Scott and his "ministry?"

"Without knowing the legalities behind your request, I'm afraid I would tell you the same thing if you came knocking on my door."

If you run a 501(c)(3), you are LEGALLY OBLIGATED to hand out copies of your Form 990 to WHOEVER asks for them. Period. What's so hard to understand about that? If he does not comply, I can file a Federal Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) complaint and the Feds will come ask him what the problem is. If I were Mr. Scott, I would be much more worried about nosy Federal types in my office than about one lousy Form 990 request.

Already>>>Like so much else about this man, it just plain looks suspicious.

"Why? Because he hasn't invited YOU to personally audit his books?"

No, because he is not complying with the law as it applies to 501(c) (3) non-profit organizations, which you told us he was. Therefore, I can only conclude that at least one of the following is true:

1) He's not really a 501(c)(3) non-profit.

2) He lied to you when he claimed he was.

3) You lied to us when you claimed he was.

4) He really is a 501(c)(3) non-profit, but he doesn't know the law very well.

5) He really is a 501(c)(3) non-profit, knows the law just fine, but for some reason, doesn't want to comply with it right now.

6) He's hiding something.

Your ball.

-- Already Done Happened (oh.yeah@it.did.com), February 23, 2001.

Publication 78, like all IRS related publications, are usually available at your public library. I do not have time to phone the IRS today. However, I did ask my accountant how long this request would take. He said since Publication 78, like all IRS forms, are available in electronic format to IRS workers, it should take, in his words, "a matter of minutes". Unfortunately for your fallen hero, Ain't, a 501c3 organization MUST allow a member of the public to see their books. There's no getting around that law. Here's a link to the actual law. Federal NPO Disclosure and Public Access Laws Here's the relevant text:
(1) In general.--In the case of an organization described in subsection (c) or (d) of section 501 and exempt from taxation under section 501(a)-- (A) a copy of-- (i) the annual return filed under section 6033 (relating to returns by exempt organizations) by such organization, and (ii) if the organization filed an application for recognition of exemption under section 501, the exempt status application materials of such organization, shall be made available by such organization for inspection during regular business hours by any individual at the principal office of such organization and, if such organization regularly maintains 1 or more regional or district offices having 3 or more employees, at each such regional or district office, and (B) upon request of an individual made at such principal office or such a regional or district office, a copy of such annual return and exempt status application materials shall be provided to such individual without charge other than a reasonable fee for any reproduction and mailing costs. The request described in subparagraph (B) must be made in person or in writing. If such request is made in person, such copy shall be provided immediately and, if made in writing, shall be provided within 30 days.
The only information that can't be disclosed to any member of the public who asks are donor lists and trade secrets. It comes down to this, Ain't. When Mr. Scott decided to form a 501c3 organization (or claim to have formed a 501c3 organization) he in effect invited every member of the public to personally audit his books. Already has an invitation, drafted by the Federal Government and endorsed by The Columbine Redemption and Mr. Scott.

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewithouta.net), February 23, 2001.

Your ignorance does not change the fact of what a Form 990 is, or how it is obtained. Mr. Scott's organization, if it truly IS a 501(c)(3) non-profit, is LEGALLY OBLIGATED to send me a copy of their form 990 whenever I ask for it. If you are ignorant, then educate yourself. Don't use your ignorance as a shield.

That was my intent when I contacted the IRS. Your point is?

...and

Your ball.

No I'm afraid it's still your ball. Your efforts prove nothing. Proof of his hiding something requires more than you have offered.

If he does not comply, I can file a Federal Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) complaint and the Feds will come ask him what the problem is.

Now there is a step I would whole heartedly support. That would bring the 'proof' you desire to prove the wrong doing you seem to feel exists here. OR It will provide the evidence of what he has been doing right all along. Either way, I eagerly await PROOF!

Short of that, have a nice day.

-- Ain't Gonna Happen (Not Here Not@ever.com), February 23, 2001.

Tarzan,

I sent an email to you earlier and it bounced back as undeliverable. Thought your addy was real?

-- Rich (howe9@shentel.net), February 23, 2001.

No, Ain't, the ball is STILL in your court. You really are not good at this at all.

>>>Don't use your ignorance as a shield.

"That was my intent when I contacted the IRS. Your point is?"

My point is that YOU made the following ridiculous statement:

"Well I personally have absolutly NO idea what a form 990 is; if it is; who it's for, or whether anyone can get what you are asking for because of an entities 501(c)(3) status."

Ain't, do you not recognize that it does not MATTER whether you know what a Form 990 is or not? You presented your TOTAL IGNORANCE of the matter as if it were some sort of DEFENSE for Mr. Scott's refusal. Even if you NEVER get a call back from the IRS, it still won't matter. Ignorance is no defense, Ain't.

"No I'm afraid it's still your ball."

No, Ain't, it is not. The ball is now squarely in your court and in Mr. Scott's court.

"Your efforts prove nothing."

My efforts prove that one or more of the following is true:

1) He's not really a 501(c)(3) non-profit.

2) He lied to you when he claimed he was.

3) You lied to us when you claimed he was.

4) He really is a 501(c)(3) non-profit, but he doesn't know the law very well.

5) He really is a 501(c)(3) non-profit, knows the law just fine, but for some reason, doesn't want to comply with it right now.

6) He's hiding something.

"Proof of his hiding something requires more than you have offered."

Read again, Ain't. I said that AT LEAST ONE OF THE FOLLOWING IS TRUE. Number 6 MAY OR MAY NOT BE TRUE. We simply do not KNOW yet. You need to try harder, because you are an abject failure when it comes to reading.

>>>If he does not comply, I can file a Federal Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) complaint and the Feds will come ask him what the problem is.

"Now there is a step I would whole heartedly support. That would bring the 'proof' you desire to prove the wrong doing you seem to feel exists here."

No, no, no. Ain't, I have not said that there IS wrongdoing here. I have said that there MIGHT be, and that Mr. Scott's refusal to provide a copy of his Form 990 STRONGLY SUGGESTS that there is wrongdoing. Mr. Scott could provide proof HIMSELF by simply PROVIDING the document that HE IS LEGALLY OBLIGATED TO PROVIDE, but so far, he has not chosen to do so. Tell me, Ain't, do you think a person should be compelled to follow the law by the authorities, or do you think they should simply do so because it's the right thing to do? Now consider Mr. Clinton. Compare and contrast.

"OR It will provide the evidence of what he has been doing right all along."

No. A copy of Mr. Scott's Form 990 will only prove that he is running a 501(c)(3) non-profit organization. It will not prove or disprove the contention that he is pulling in a mighty chunk of change by trading off his dead child's misfortune.

"Either way, I eagerly await PROOF!"

I'm waiting for proof from Mr. Scott. Why *I* should have to prove that *HE* is running a 501(c)(3) non-profit organization is beyond me. Seems to me that he's legally obligated to prove it himself.

"Short of that, have a nice day."

I'm having a GREAT day. Poking holes in your flimsy arguments is an outstanding pastime. Pity you aren't any better a debater.

Your ball, Ain't.

-- Already Done Happened (oh.yeah@it.did.com), February 23, 2001.

Rich-

It is, but it's an alias set up through my ISP. I've had a couple of complaints in the last couple of days of bounce notices. I'll check it and let you know.

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewithouta.net), February 23, 2001.

Actually, the form 990 will reveal much more about his organization, in particular, exactly how much he rakes in, how much he pays himself, and how much expesnes he's paying. A 990 is a NPO tax form, and it will reveal as much about The Columbine Redemption as your 1040 reveals about you. This is why the form 990 is made public- for accountability.

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewithouta.net), February 23, 2001.

Why *I* should have to prove..

Ummm...gee. If you're going for a conviction, in the USA we have a little thing called innocent until PROVEN guilty.

If you spent half as much time PROVING your case with EVIDENCE you wouldn't need to spend NEARLY as much time WHINING about how unfair the world is today.

If he does not comply, I can file a Federal Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) complaint and the Feds will come ask him what the problem is.

I've called your bluff. Put up or shut up! NEXT......

-- Ain't Gonna Happen (Not Here Not@ever.com), February 23, 2001.

The only one whining on this thread is YOU, Ain't. You've done nothing but whine and bitch about how unfair it is to even examine Mr. Scott's finances and motives.

The Form 990 will provide the final proof. I intend to send a written request via registered letter. If I don't get that 990 within the 30 day time limit, I will complain to the IRS. I hope Already and anyone else concerened about this, will do the same.

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewithouta.net), February 23, 2001.

The Form 990 will provide the final proof. I intend to send a written request via registered letter. If I don't get that 990 within the 30 day time limit, I will complain to the IRS. I hope Already and anyone else concerened about this, will do the same.

Hurray! GO FOR IT!

-- Ain't Gonna Happen (Not Here Not@ever.com), February 23, 2001.

>>>Why *I* should have to prove.

"Ummm...gee. If you're going for a conviction, in the USA we have a little thing called innocent until PROVEN guilty."

Read closely, Ain't. No one has accused Mr. Scott of anything, so where you come up with this "guilty" garbage is beyond me. But while we are on the subject of having to prove things, why don't you and Mr. Scott PROVE TO US that he is, in fact, running a 501(c)(3) non- profit charitable organization? You and Mr. Scott made the claim, so now you can PROVE it.

"If you spent half as much time PROVING your case"

I am not going to make your case for you, Ain't. You and Mr. Scott made an assertion. Both of you refuse to prove it. I tried to prove it for you by contacting Mr. Scott, and Mr. Scott refused. I have legal recourse available to me. Tell me why I should have to prove YOUR assertation for you? Tell me why YOU aren't proving it for yourself?

"with EVIDENCE"

Ah, yes, EVIDENCE. The EVIDENCE is being withheld by Mr. Scott. I wonder why?

"you wouldn't need to spend NEARLY as much time WHINING about how unfair the world is today."

ALERT! AIN'T ALERT!

Ain't, please indicate where I have whined about "how unfair the world is today." Please present quotations, links or any other provable, factual sources. Once again, Ain't, you have made an assertion that YOU NEED TO PROVE. Just like your claim that Mr. Scott is running a 501(c)(3) non-profit charitable organization. YOU get to prove what YOU say. I shouldn't HAVE to prove YOUR points.

>>>If he does not comply, I can file a Federal Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) complaint and the Feds will come ask him what the problem is.

"I've called your bluff."

You have done no such thing.

"Put up or shut up!"

YOU put up, Ain't. I am tired of doing your work for you. I give you until next Thursday night to respond with the IRS' answer to your call. I shall require the name and phone number of the agent you speak to, as well as a specific citation regarding PRECISELY WHERE Mr. Scott's organization is listed in the applicable publication (assuming it is even in there at all). I plan to check out your claim, whatever it is, so get EVIDENCE to support your claim, Ain't. Otherwise, do not expect that your claim will be believed or accepted.

If you do not do so, then I shall give Mr. Scott until Monday, March 5, to COMPLY WITH THE LAW and get a copy of his Form 990 to me. if he does not, then I shall most assuredly file an FOIA action. And I invite you to contact him and tell him what I'm going to do. See if that shakes the tree any. I'll contact him, too.

"NEXT."

Yeah, I bet you want "NEXT." You're scared to death that I'm going to get legal proof that you and this Scott person are in the wrong. You couldn't STAND that, could you?

-- Already Done Happened (oh.yeah@it.did.com), February 23, 2001.

"Hurray! GO FOR IT!"

Yes! Do Ain't's work for him!

Lazy dirtbag. Get off your duff and prove your claims, Ain't.

-- Already Done Happened (oh.yeah@it.did.com), February 23, 2001.

Yadda Yadda Yadda....Jesh...are you any relation to Cherri? She loves to write mini novels on each posting to.

-- Ain't Gonna Happen (Not Here Not@ever.com), February 23, 2001.

Reasoning and proof take time, Ain't. Silly-ass rants and whiny bitching like yours take significantly less time.

Or are you simply complaining because it's so HAAAAAAAAAARD to read all those WORRRRRRRRRRRRRRDS?

Come on, Ain't. Prove your claims. Prove them. Don't be a lazy dirtbag and demand that other people do your work for you.

-- Already Done Happened (oh.yeah@it.did.com), February 23, 2001.

You're scared to death that I'm going to get legal proof that you and this Scott person are in the wrong.

WRONG! If someone is claiming something other than the truth or misrepresenting themselves...I WANNA KNOW!

Surprized?

-- Ain't Gonna Happen (Not Here Not@ever.com), February 23, 2001.

Come on, Ain't. Prove your claims. Prove them. Don't be a lazy dirtbag and demand that other people do your work for you.

It's a two way steet...lets turn things around a little shall we?

Come on, Already Done Happened. Prove your claims. Prove them. Don't be a lazy dirtbag and demand that other people do your work for you.

-- Ain't Gonna Happen (Not Here Not@ever.com), February 23, 2001.

Look, Ain't, no one here has made ANY claims about Mr. Scott EXCEPT YOU. And you refuse to present any evidence of your claims.

Who's the lazy one? Who's refusing to present proof?

YOU ARE, Ain't.

-- Already Done Happened (oh.yeah@it.did.com), February 23, 2001.

I am like, totally sorry I ever brought this up.

It was merely to show that victims don't always blame the NRA......

Deano

-- Deano (deano@luvthebeach.com), February 23, 2001.

Deano, I agree with your original thesis, and I think it is good that some folks touched by firearm violence aren't blaming the NRA. But there's something curious coming out of Columbine, and it smells funny to me.

-- Already Done Happened (oh.yeah@it.did.com), February 23, 2001.

Already and Tarzan:

The torch is passed to you. I have spent some time fighting this kind of anit-intellectual nonsense. I am older now. I am in a position to make decisions. They are organized. I know that. I ignore their mail campaigns. Read one and ignore the repeats.

The Ain'ts of the world give us little information. That is why they have little impact. The job is to continue to humiliate the Ain'ts of the world. You are doing a good job. If they were only honest we could talk. Ahh, that would be nice.

Cheers,,,

Z

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), February 23, 2001.

ATTENTION, "AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN."

What did the IRS tell you?

Your time is up. Either answer the question or wear the rightfully earned title of "liar."

Have a nice day.

-- Already Done Happened (oh.yeah@it.did.com), March 01, 2001.