Hi,,I am a dog lover (and horses ) and raised Shelties, (natural herders) and was wondering if anyone out there raises small stock dogs. Even a good breed to guard chickens. My dad had a shepherd mix dog that he would put in with the chickens to guard them. (no Shep didn't eat chicken for supper) . If there are any dog fanciers out there, I would love to talk shop..and anyone just interested and maybe toying with the idea. I would like to share information on this subject, input and output. ALSO,, Would like to hear of experiences with Llamas as stock guards. I have thought about getting one.

-- Patsy (cozyhollow-gal@care2.com), February 21, 2001

Answers

hi patsy i raise shelties!they are great little dogs!mine herd the pigs,goats,cows and chickens. couldn't do without them! i even have one that will catch a chicken and hold it until i get there without hurting it!they also are great gaurd dogs. cindy

-- cindy young (cin_sue63@webtv.net), February 21, 2001.

Maybe you would be interested in checking out the Farmcollie? We have one-she is five months old, and already herds chcickens, without being told-and she is learning to work sheep. They vary a bit in size-some are around 65 lbs but some are bigger-all depends on what you need them for. There are a couple of websites-the most helpful would be the AWFA site (American Working Farmcollie Association) which is at

http://www.geocities.com/farmcollie1/index.html

Also a site that has lots of info is

http://izebug.syr.edu/~gsbisco/collieonceandfuture.htm

that second site is called Collies Back to the Future, and I beleive also has a link to the AWFA site.

The farmcollie is a good all around farm dog-they have strong instincts, but unlike the border collie, for example, they work because of their desire to please teir master rather than an inhibited prey drive. You will not find a farmcollie who will work the sheep to death-for the sake of working. I know that some BC's are not as bad about that as others, but one of the differences is these dogs will not just go anywhere and do whatever they are told- they have a strong bond with their owners and 'their' stock. Yes, some will help their master herd some stray cattle for a neighbor-but only because their master tells them to. Take some time to read some of the stories and journals entries on the website. Great reading.

I know I sound biased-I am :) There are a few posters here on the forum who have these dogs-myself, Kathleen Sanderson, Elaine Reynolds and a couple others. Feel free to email me if you have any questions.

by the way, as you peruse the AWFA site-our dog is a pup from last falls Jacod-Ellen litter. there are also a few puppies available now from a cuple of litters. There is a e-list that has good info available too-I have to find the link for it.

Hope that helps, Sarah

-- sarah (heartsongacres@juno.com), February 21, 2001.

Hi Sarah and Cindy...thanks for the ideas, information and experiences.***I never did take to Border Collies. They are sooo hyper, although I know they work hard and many people swear by them.,,I like the idea of the Farm Collie,,now are they the same as the Long haired collie that is so poplar? (Looks like Lassie)They do seem calmer and more sensible and bonded with owners. I have never owned one. I will keep them in mind.***I will keep the email addresses for future references. Thanks,,,*You raise shelties! Where do you live? I raised them when I lived in Wv. I am now in Montana, but plan to move back to "Almost Heaven", WV ASAP,,,Just miss WV too much!,,,Shelties are the sweetest dogs. And yes, they are protectors, watch dogs, work dogs, and companions. I used to raise and show them back east. Hope to again someday. I am a dog groomer and Shelties are my specialty.*** My Alpha female sheltie didn't even like cars to drive by our house,,on the old country road. She would chase them and bark, bark, bark. I never could break her of that one bad habit. She meant business! I miss her still. She was tore up by coyotes and I had to put her down, cause she was in so much misery. She was 13 years old at the time. It happened out here in Montana. I have never gotten another Sheltie since than, but do plan to. I have 2 dogs now. Good little watch dogs. Take care and keep smiling...

-- Patsy (cozyhollow-gal@care2.com), February 21, 2001.

Patsy, I raise llamas for their fibre, I'm a spinner and a knitter. I do not have experience with llamas as "stock guards" per se but if this is any help, I have 2 neighbors who raise sheep and kill between 6-15 coyotes each a year. We have SEEN 2 in the last 3+ years! Same area.

No losses here to predators except a chicken every now and again. And I have never witnessed the killings...maybe its the wicked chicken hawk that I did witness take out one of my guineas last year.

The University of Iowa did an extensive study with llamas as guard animals and put out an extensive brochure on the study. If you'd like a copy I could send you one if you want. E-mail me directly with your address.

-- Emily Nouvertne ( Central Ky) (bellyacresfarm@kyk.net), February 22, 2001.