I spoke on the phone today with a friend in Florida. She was upset by a recent experience that happened to her husband. They are not sure what to do about it. I could not think of anything either. There is a lot of expertise on this forum. I told Ann that I would ask here for advice.

As best I understand it, this is the situation: Husband Peter is an elementary school teacher. He has a long history of excellent performance in several other states. He is 60ish. Peter is new to Florida and could not get a full-time teaching job so he does substitute teaching.

Several weeks ago he was subbing for a 6th grade. He took the kids outside for recess. Later in the day, he was summoned to the Administrator's office and informed that one of the girl students had reported him as having made inappropriate remarks. Something about the kid being "sexy", I think. The school board put Peter on indefinite hold. He has not worked since. He does not know who made the complaint. He is not allowed to see the complaint. He has no union support because as a sub he is not in the union. He saw a so-called labor lawyer who was totally unhelpful, even to the point of suggesting that he might be "guilty".

Peter is a mild mannered guy. He did nothing wrong. He is depressed by this experience. He cannot find teaching work and does not know how to defend himself from these anonymous accusations. It is like something out of Stalinist Russia or Nazi Germany.

Does anyone have advice? I am sending this link to Ann so that she can follow your answers directly.

Thanks.

-- Lars (larsguy@yahoo.com), February 10, 2001

Answers

Bump

-- Lars (larsguy@yahoo.com), February 10, 2001.

That's easy. Tell Peter to wise up and get a real brain. Mild mannered is okay for social work, but not when your own financial security is threatened.

He needs to go get a GOOD lawyer, the big bucks kind. He needs to sue the piss out of that school board and teach them a lesson they'll never forget. If done properly, he should be able to retire to Rio de Janiero and spend the rest of his days watching girls in butt floss instead of teaching worthless wannabe "Eminem" punks.

-- (wake up and @ smell. the coffee Peter), February 11, 2001.

This is sad but probably not uncommon these days. Ann, you and Peter have my sympathy.

If you're in a position to do so I'd suggest you just walk away. We live in a death by accusation culture when it comes to kids & sex & allegations and at 60 I don't know if I'd be up to the fight. If however Peter still needs to work then you have to muster the resolve necessary and fight for an unequivocal vindication.

-- Carlos (riffraff@cybertime.net), February 11, 2001.

Without witnesses it's ...

Unfortunately, if the school/parents persue this he's financially ruined. I think EH Porter is a lawyer. Email him...

-- Uncle Bob (unclb0b@aol.com), February 11, 2001.

Hi, I've no direct experience but my mom was very senior in the Brit.Headteachers Association(Union).As such she dealt with a lot of this type of allegation and worse.The problem is finding reliable witnesses to the incident...almost impossible in many cases.So it usually comes down to reputation & past behaviour ..both of the student and the teacher.One also has to assume there is a fair hearing from the school board.

I.The identity of student making the allegation must be revealed and legal action taken to get this information if necessary.

2.Any witnesses must be discovered.

3.A request for a hearing must be made.

As to legal representation.Play sneaky.The appropriate teachers's union will employ lawyers who are knowledgeable in all matters educational including alleged sexual harassement by teachers towards pupils.

These guys are usually retained by the unions but will take private clients .So find out who they are and request an initial interview privately.Maybe this could even be set up as a favour to a teacher in trouble by the union themselves when they know they are not going to pay themselves.

I would have thought at least one exploratory meeting with the lawyers would be worth it.Who knows a letter written by a lawyer may even be all it takes to get the kid to admit what really did happen.

I hope this is of some help.As I said its based on Brit experience.

-- Chris (enquiries@griffenmill.com), February 11, 2001.

Lars, Just had a thought.Maybe the Union Lawyers are out of state.Still they would be familiar with this type of problem & maybe able to refer your friend to a lawyer nearer to home who would be upto snuff.

-- Chris (enquiries@griffenmill.com), February 11, 2001.

Too Late…..the damage is done.

As Carlos has pointed out, the ‘accusation’ itself is a life long albatross. There is a teacher in Orange County that was recently found ‘totally innocent’ of similar charges. Of course, his life is already ruined. He lost his wife and his marriage, was savagely and repeatedly beaten when initially incarcerated, and will never be able to teach again. Lars, I think our current society is ready for a hard look at these terrible accusations and hopefully Peter can find some heavy weight Barrister to take this case into prime time.

-- Barry (bchbear863@cs.com), February 11, 2001.

Thanks Barry, Carlos and Chris. Peter is not in the Teacher's Union so he doesn't have that support. He has consulted one lawyer and it was not helpful. Fortunately there is no threat to the marriage but this has already affected his career.

A thought that I had is that maybe this kid and her parents make a career of this type of ploy. Since Ann/Peter don't even know the name of the accuser so there is no easy way to check if tnis has happened before.

I think Ann told me that the kid's parents are initiating a law suit against the school district. I may be wrong on that. Ann, if you are reading this thread and want to clarify anything that I have said, please do. (note that you don't have to use your real addy to post here)

-- Lars (larsguy@yahoo.com), February 11, 2001.

Sheesh, you conservative right-wingers are really spineless, always willing to step aside and allow "the system" to dominate your lives. That's my politically correct way of saying you are submissive WIMPS, especially Ra (aka "Barry") and Uncle Boob.

In case you've forgotten during your gleeful acceptance our current President-Reject dictator to rule your lives, we still have some basic fundamental rights left. One of them is INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY! And if Dumbya tries to take THAT away, he's a dead man.

-- (sheesh@spineless.repubs), February 11, 2001.

"sheesh", I asked a serious question. If you have anything constructive to add, that's great. Otherwise, go disrupt someone else's thread.

BTW, Ann and Peter are Liberals. She likes to pimp me about Bush.

-- Lars (larsguy@yahoo.com), February 11, 2001.

Not too worry Lars. ‘Sheesh’ is ‘Hawk’, having another bout of penis envy and lamenting the fact that he has no life and no hope of finding one.

-- Barry (bchbear863@cs.com), February 11, 2001.

Lars,
Sorry to hear this news. One suggestion is to contact the Florida Department of Education to find out what his legal rights are in such a dispute. The other is to contact the State Bar Association for attorneys in his area who specialize in such cases.

-- David L (bumpkin@dnet.net), February 11, 2001.

My daughter, 1 year before graduating from college with a teaching degree, decided NOT to fulfill her dream of becoming a teacher. She saw the challenges ahead, but decided it was not worth the "RISK" and humiliation that many teachers face today. With uncoperative parents, undisciplined children, funds for materials, and overcrowding of classes, she has decided to pursue a career in business. Finding qualified and willing teachers is becoming as difficult as finding qualified and willing policemen. Both careers have the same attitudes.

-- the way of Rome (thewayofRome@Rome4sure.dog), February 11, 2001.

Lars:

I saw this thread, but I didn't have any advice to offer either. If it were ME, I wouldn't waste the money on hiring a lawyer. Teachers make little enough, and if Florida pays its substitutes as little as Texas, Peter doesn't have money to waste on a "he said, she said" situation.

If teaching is the only thing of interest to Peter, he might be able to pull in some money tutoring, but he'd have to make it clear up front to all involved that this thing was pending. If Ann is in a position to be there while the tutoring took place, it would be better. Actually, a "group" situation would be good if he had a room with a large table where youngsters could gather after school. A local library might even be able to accommodate a room with a large table for this purpose. If he could get 10 kids at $3.00/hr, he could tutor for two hours after school and make $60.00, which is what subs make for an entire day here.

Outside of that, there are oftentimes ads in the paper inquiring about teachers who want to do something else. I haven't looked into them, but I suppose they could be legit.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), February 12, 2001.

""sheesh", I asked a serious question. If you have anything constructive to add, that's great. Otherwise, go disrupt someone else's thread."

I did add something constructive, but you rightwingies don't have the balls to heed my advice. (see "wake up")

Ra, glad you keep thinking I'm "hawk", that way you'll never figure it out. We go back a ways. I'm keeping an eye on you. Hee hee! :)

-- sheesh (laughing@at.wimpies), February 12, 2001.

Thanks Anita. Yeah, they can't afford any lawyer for an extended time. Peter is a good musician/singer. That is his true passion. But he found out 30 years ago that it wouldn't pay the bills.

David L--This sounds like a good idea. Thanks. (What did you think of the urine-drinking thread? I know you're into health food but this is a bit much.)

-- Lars (larsguy@yahoo.com), February 12, 2001.

Sheesh-head,

See, it works this way--they don't have big bucks for a GOOD lawyer. Why do you leftwingies always think "lawyer"? Does Ralph Nader have a PIRG that would work this case on a sliding fee? I didn't think so.

-- Lars (larsguy@yahoo.com), February 12, 2001.

Lars-head,

The initial consultation with a lawyer is not expensive, often free. In a case like this you can't afford to mess around with run-of-the-mill mediocre lawyers. Check out the cases they have won and get the best. If he is good, he'll be able to win BIG and you won't have to worry about the cost. NEVER use a public defender, they're a joke. A good lawyer will have that girl crying her admission within 5 minutes after putting her on the stand. The only reason they should hesitate to do this is if he is really guilty.

-- sheesh (it's better to die on your feet @ than live. on your knees), February 12, 2001.

"Sheesh"--

Thanks, for the useful thought. Your new handle sounds like the New Hampshire license plate motto.

-- Lars (larsguy@yahoo.com), February 12, 2001.

Lars:

Thanks Anita. Yeah, they can't afford any lawyer for an extended time. Peter is a good musician/singer. That is his true passion. But he found out 30 years ago that it wouldn't pay the bills.

I would have suggested that he give music lessons in his home had I known he was so inclined. People are ALWAYS looking for that, and the pay is better than subbing. Sounds like a "Mr. Holland's Opus" story in reverse. If he's 60ish, as you suggest, it's probably a good idea to take a break from teaching and pursue his passion. This entire thing may turn out to be the diamond in the brown paper bag.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), February 12, 2001.

Lars,
Though most of us think of urine as containing body's waste products, it consists rather of useful substances that the body has an overabundance of at the time. If anyone is interested, I can post some journal references attesting to the therapeutic effects of ingesting it.

That being said, nemesis's facetious suggestion of taking a teaspoon of cayenne in a cup of urine might be overdoing it. On the other hand, didn't Mary Poppins sing "Just a Spoonful of Pepper Helps the Urine go down."

-- David L (bumpkin@dnet.net), February 12, 2001.

The school board put Peter on indefinite hold. He has not worked since. He does not know who made the complaint. He is not allowed to see the complaint.

I'm not a lawyer, but I was a teacher and have seen similar situations. If the above is true, then Peter does need to get a good lawyer a.s.a.p. The school board cannot put his status on "indefinite hold" and they must allow him to see the complaint. If they are not going to move on this case then they need to drop it. Also, in cases like this most of the time the person is put on administrative leave with pay. I don't think they have the right to suspend him without pay based on allegations.

If they haven't scheduled a hearing yet, then he should have good grounds for a lawsuit. Get a good lawyer and file suit a.s.a.p.

-- Buddy (buddydc@go.com), February 12, 2001.

Oh Lars...this is so sad. I wish that I could offer something -- but I'm really at a loss here -- except that maybe a review of the following well-known case might turn up something or other that might be of some use.

The Amirault Tragedy

To get more (and possibly the latest) on this, do a word search on "Dorothy Rabinowitz" with "Amirault" for her articles on this from the Wall St. Journal.

-- eve (eve_rebekah@yahoo.com), February 12, 2001.

Oh yes -- other than that, I think he should get the best lawyer he can afford and fight this as hard as he can, for as long as he can, including suing the school district and every individual involved in the decision. Yes, it's expensive, and can all be for nought, but really -- what choice does he have?

Since a school is a governmental unit, I really don't know how far he could get with this, though. But if he can fight this -- he should - - tooth and nail -- to clear his name to the extent he can.

-- eve (eve_rebekah@yahoo.com), February 12, 2001.

Eve--

Thanks for the link. Scary. I don't think I want to know more.

I wonder if Malden is near Salem?

-- Lars (larsguy@yahoo.com), February 12, 2001.