Worms and manure from animals on worming medicine

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I read in a book about how earthworms love manure. But manure from an animal that is being dewormed will kill worms. What if you compost it first?

-- Paul Wheaton (paul@javaranch.com), February 10, 2001

Answers

Paul:

Wormers are for intestional worms, which are very, very different from earthworms. Whatever shows up in the manure should not harm earthworms. Of course, composting would still be a good idea anyway.

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), February 10, 2001.


Ken is correct except for diatomacous earth :) We all only wished wormers, chemical or herbal worked so well that it even killed the worms, eggs and larve even in the manure! Composting wouldn't effect DE from killing the earth worms, course it is supposed to be inactive in wet, course the intestines and stomach are pretty darn wet, yet it is suppose to kill worms in their also...........so who knows? Vicki the instigator :)

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), February 10, 2001.

Vicki:

The information I've read on DE says it will not affect/kill earthworms. Does anyone on the forum apply DE directly in your garden and do you still have earthworms?

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), February 10, 2001.


Yes Ken, we use DE as a slug deterent, it works somewhat. We have lots of healthy wigglers.

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), February 10, 2001.

I understand that the type of feed-thru fly control (often classified as a dewormer), which is an organophosphate is toxic to earthworms. I have also heard that this is one of the chemicals on the EPAs list that is likely to be pulled from the market in the near future.

-- Julie Froelich (firefly1@nnex.net), February 10, 2001.


From all I've read, Diatomaceous Earth does not kill earthworms. Flies are unable to reproduce in the manure. It's approved by the FDA, EPA and AMDA. Also, lots of gardeners consider it the gardens best friend as it not only takes care of insects, but returns minerals to the earth. It can be applied dry or wet. If wet, it will be effective when it dries.

-- ~Rogo (rogo2020@yahoo.com), February 10, 2001.

Julie is right about the dewormers- they can also be toxic to earthworms, so be careful about using un-composted manure from animals which might have been recently wormed. Well aged manure should not pose a problem.

-- Elizabeth (ekfla@aol.com), February 11, 2001.

So the worming medicine dissipates over time? Would the heat from composting speed this process?

-- Paul Wheaton (paul@javaranch.com), February 11, 2001.

Organophosphate is what the one researcher in Britian thinks contributed to the outbreak of Mad Cow Disease. I have never, nor will ever, use pore on wormers.

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), February 11, 2001.

Yeah, I think we need to clarify to Paul which wormers are o.k. and won't hurt the earthworms and which ones will be passed in the manure. The fly control stuff is included in what wormers???

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), February 11, 2001.


Also bear in mind the small quanity used. I use an already very duluted solution at 1cc per 110 pounds of body weight once a year. So a 1,000 pound cow would only receive 8cc between the hide and body. Of that, at most, 10% would be the actual wormer. It is difficult to just inject one or two ccs. This is for both internal and external parasites. Whatever showed up in the manure would be extremely slight. I don't think I have a problem with internal worms, but obviously the cows need relief from external ones as this time of year they already have bare skin spots from rubbing against trees and t-posts.

-- Ken S.in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), February 11, 2001.

Diane:

I don't believe any wormers work against flies, but some say DE in the manure will help against their larva. I use ear tags for horn fly control to try to prevent pink eye. Even when they get it, I don't recall one of my cows getting pink eye twice, so they must build up an immunity.

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), February 11, 2001.


Ken, what I was asking about was what Julie was talking about. The feed-through fly control containing the organophosphates. I didn't know which ones she was talking about and I wouldn't want that on my place.

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), February 11, 2001.

Ya'll :) have things a little messed up. Regular chemical wormers, like Ivermectin, Valbazen, Safeguard, pour ons like cydectin etc. do not have any residual effect in the manure to kill anything. Now the feed thru fly control like Rabon for horses, leaves a chemcial residue in the manure that will not let fly larve live, hence less flies in and around the barnyard.

If DE is sharp enough to kill fly larve, and parasites "in" the gut, and kill crawling bugs on plants, how the hell can it then not kill earth worms which have the most sensitive of skins of all? You can't have it both ways! Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), February 11, 2001.


The reason I'm asking is that I want to go and pick up some manure. I'm guessing that anyplace that is willing to give manure away is probably not following an organic approach. I also have experience that folks trying to get rid of manure will say damn near anything to get rid of it - so I'm just going to assume the worst.

It sounds like I should assume that the manure may contain some worming medicine that can be bad for earthworms. So I should certainly compost it a bit before putting it on any fields. But will composting get rid of the toxins?

-- Paul Wheaton (paul@javaranch.com), February 11, 2001.



This is way out of my league, but I doubt composting would negate any herbicide, pesticide or wormer in the manure. However, the concentration would be so low, I doubt it would have any effect. Sounds like you are looking for 100%, guaranteed, organic manure and I rather doubt there is any to be had. You may have to settle for manure from animals raised under organic-type conditions. I just built a small raised bed for a couple of tomato plants. Has eight- inches of manure from my cows in it. I have absolutely no concern on using it.

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), February 12, 2001.

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