True Interpretation of The GodHead.....

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God is a man separated from the Holy Ghost, He had two fathers. For the Bible said that the Holy Ghost overshadowed Mary and she conceived. And the Bible said in Matthew 1:18 that "that Thing which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost." Then which is His Father, the Holy Ghost or God? Both the same Spirit, or He had a illegitimate birth by two spirits. That's a Catholic dogma, and it never was a Bible teaching. Martin Luther brought it out with a lot of other Catholicism that's in Lutheran church. Wesley followed on with it, and it's still going on; but it's a error. It's not the truth, never was it. Never was it a Bible doctrine, never was it a commandment in the Bible, to teach three gods. There's one God. Jesus said, "Hear ye, O Israel, I'm the Lord your God," one God, not three gods.

In Africa they baptize once for the Father, and once for the Son, and once for the Holy Ghost. And then a poor Jew comes around and say, "Which one of them is your God?" Which one is, the Father, Son, or Holy Ghost?" They're, all three, One. The Bible said they were One. Jesus was a house that God lived in; the Bible said that--that, I Timothy 3:16, "Without controversy (that's argument) great is the mystery of godliness. For God was manifested in the flesh, seen of angels, received on, and preached, believed on, and received up into glory." God was. The Bible said, "His Name shall be called Emmanuel," which is by interpretation, "God with us." The Bible said that, "Jesus, in Him dwelt the Fullness of the Godhead bodily." As we had it the other night, God in the beginning was Spirit. And then from God went out the Logos, or the Theophany which was a form of a man called the Son of God (prefigured). He came in earth in a body of flesh, even before He came in Jesus Christ. Now, swallow that one once, brother. I'll prove it to you. When--when Moses saw Him, he said, "Let me see Your form, Lord." And God hid him in a rock. And when He passed by, he said it was the back part of a man. That was that Theophany. That's exactly. Then that Theophany had to be made flesh, not another person, but the same Person had to become flesh to take the sting out of death. Like a bee when he stings, it leaves a stinger. And the... he never left that... He could put a sting in human flesh because it's sin. But, brother, when he stung that Emmanuel's flesh, he lost his stinger.... amen

-- eric (structure@email.com), February 09, 2001

Answers

Dear Eric,
You give us the perfect example of Sola Scriptura (personal interpretation by human judgement) the amateur Bible student and interpreter.

A total wipeout. You still have a lot to learn. If you are humble of heart and sincere in the desire to reach God, stay on this forum and participate. Only, please don't interpret any verse of Scripture; leave that to the many friends you'll find here. Do not attempt to take any adversarial position with us in Scriptural matters. You'll only embarrass yourself. We welcome your questions, but statements such as you have made here are unwelcome. THANKS!

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), February 09, 2001.


Eric,

Before spreading rumours about what you think Catholics believe research what those belifs are so you don't bare false witness against the Church Christ founded. To help you, here is an excerpt taken from the Catholic Church Catechism, the official teachings of the Catholic Church ,

253 The Trinity is One. We do not confess three Gods, but one God in three persons, the "consubstantial Trinity".[83] The divine persons do not share the one divinity among themselves but each of them is God whole and entire: "The Father is that which the Son is, the Son that which the Father is, the Father and the Son that which the Holy Spirit is, i.e. by nature one God."[84] In the words of the Fourth Lateran Council (1215), "Each of the persons is that supreme reality, viz., the divine substance, essence or nature."[85]

As you can read, Catholics are not taught to believe in three Gods as you would have everyone believe. To read more about the doctrine of the Holy Trinity go to the Catholic Church Catechism and research what the Truth is!

+

-- Michael (williams007@aol.com), February 09, 2001.


Gentlemen:

Save your ink! I get the feeling that to Eric, it matters not what Catholics believe. Since he doesn't bother to take the time to check out what he spews, it is apparent he is concerned about spreading gossip and hatred for another faith. Let him be! Eric is busy making his bed. Someday, he will have to lie in it.

St. James and Mary, Our Mother, continue to help us defend the faith against hostile foe and explain it to those who have ears to listen, and as always, pray for us!

Ed

-- Ed Lauzon (grader@accglobal.net), February 10, 2001.


From a Protestant to a Catholic...

I'm not siding with Eric, but just to take his tirad and pose it as a question. What's the point? In all my years sitting in the pews of Protestant and Catholic churches alike, when the sermon (homily) topic hits the Trinity, people brain's slam shut. One Episcopal priest went so far as to start his sermon...

"Today's sermon is about the Trinity." He paused several seconds and added, "For the majority of you, the next sound you hear will be the Recessional Hymn!"

I'm not interested in Catholic legaleze. I'm just curious as to why Paul determined that the Trinity was so important. Why take a simple concept like the single God of Abraham and run Him through a Christian atom smasher? Perhaps someone could direct me to a more Catholic philisophical, not scriptural, treatise on the NEED for the Trinity.

Kindest Regards,

Craig Miller

-- Craig Miller (cmiller@ssd.com), February 10, 2001.


Dear Craig,
Why? take a concept . . . a treatise on the need,/i> for a Trinity?

Jesus Christ in His infinite love for us, REVEALED a truth! Not a treatise. Not an atom-smasher, or a concept. A TRUTH.

Humanity may never understand it. I don't even understand life itself; my own life! Why should I gainsay the inner life of God-- as He chooses to show it to me, through His Divine Son? Now, will He condemn me to hell, if I don't grasp the reason, or the nature of His inner LIFE? No, not for that much. But for denying it, once His Son has given me this truth? Yes! It is a Divine revelation. Same as the Word of God Itself.

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), February 10, 2001.



Immaculate Heart of Mary and Saint James, Pray for all of us!

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), February 10, 2001.

Good point Eugene.

-- steve vincent (svvincent@hotmail.com), February 10, 2001.

We take 5 poeple. Each person is a distinct individual. The five people are family(one family, five people, five in one). We have three persons in one Godhead(three in one). All three are the One True God(the Trinity), just as all 5 people are one family. Do you get it? In John it says the Word(Jesus) was with God and the Word was God. Was John contradicting himself? Of coarse not! He was telling us about God. St. Justin Martyr(100-165 AD) wrote, "Our Teacher of these things, born for this end, is Jesus Christ, who was crucified under Pontius Pilate, the procurator in Judea in the time of Tiberius Ceasar. We will prove that we worship Him reasonably; for we have learned that He is the Son of the True God Himself....the Father of all has a Son, who is both the first-born Word of God and is God." You can find this writting in his First Apology(defense).

-- Chris (martinaj@sprynet.com), February 10, 2001.

Jmj

Thank you (at last!), William for a good contribution -- even if we disagree totally.

You wrote: "You say that the trinty is 3 persons, but you don't believe in 3 gods, well, I am a person, you are a person, and eugene is another person which makes us 3 differant individuals, separate personalities, thats how you make him 3 gods,
"why not say God manifested in 3 manifestations, positions, offices..etc But don't cut him into 3 persons, I hope you understand.

Yes, I do understand your point. But you are using the word "person" to refer to distinct HUMAN beings. God is a DIVINE, supreme being, whose nature/supernature is not the same as ours. God created us humans to be only one person per being. But He is not that way. He is three distinct Persons in one Being. This does not mean that there is just one Person with three manifestations/positions/offices, as you suggested. That is a concept found in Hinduism, if I'm not mistaken. And it is also found in an ancient heretical outgrowth of Chrisianity called Modalism. After being condemned in the first millennium, Modalism died out, only to arise in our own time. It exists in at least one sect [perhaps yours, William?] known as the United Pentecostal Church.

"Persons" is a theological/philosophical term that relates to "interrelationships." God is a pure spirit within whom are interpersonal relationships among Three whom he has revealed as being called "Father," "Son," and "Spirit." The Divine Trinity is a mystery that is impossible for a human being to fully understand. It takes FAITH to believe in it. We cannot PROVE it to you. Please pray for the faith.

St. James, pray for us. O Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to you.
God bless you.
John

-- J. F. Gecik (jgecik@desc.dla.mil), February 10, 2001.


Thanks, John--for your compelling insight into a mystery we have no way of demonstrating, but are called to know and accept through faith. Faith in Jesus Christ-- a source of Truth not even the angels can rival.

He wanted us to love His Father, over everything in our lives. He insisted on the imperatives that come with that love: Penance for our sins. Faith, prayer and self-sacrifice. In the end, He provided us the fullest example of love for Our Eternal Father; embracing the holy cross for His Father and for us.

Because He knew unmistakably how wayward we can be, He sent the Paraclete; Third Person and Holy Spirit, proceeding from the Father and Son, One God! To be in the Church His Mystical Body, and deliver us from evil; even to the end of the world. Did God reveal this to the scientists? To the doctors or the alchemists or mathematicians? He revealed it to Galilean fishermen. He revealed it to a small band of Jews, the most beat-up little nation in the world. He revealed it to Monotheists! Why can't we all thank Him? For telling us the highest most sublime mystery, like a brother tells his little brothers and sisters? How can anybody not love Jesus?

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), February 11, 2001.



AMEN and ALLELUIA!

-- (jgecik@desc.dla.mil), February 11, 2001.

Sprinkling was formed by the Catholic church about six hundred after the death of the last disciple. The Father, Son, Holy Ghost was adapted at the same time, because Catholic people worship different gods. And they made the trinity of the offices of God, not the three gods; Father, Son, Holy Ghost. That's pagan. There's one God. "Thou shalt not have no other gods before Me. Hear you, O Israel, I'm the Lord your God, one God."

The Jew ask us, "Which is your God, the Father, Son, or Holy Ghost?" There's just one of them. It's three offices that the same God has worked in, manifesting Himself, first in the Father could not be touched, hung on the mountain even the cow or animal would touch the mountain should be killed. Then He came down 'cause He wanted to be worshipped.He got closer to man, because He become the Son of man. God was in Him. And when He did that then, He said, "A little while and the world won't see Me no more. Yet, ye shall see Me for I (a personal pronoun), I will be with you, even in you to the end to the world."

Said, "I come from God (What? The Pillar of fire.), I go back to God." He did it. He did. And then when He did that, He went back to God, then we find Paul (in our lesson this morning) on his road to Damascus, and He found Paul down on the road. And He smote him down. And when Paul looked up what was He? The Pillar of Fire again, a Light that put his eyes out. Look what Jesus done when He was on earth and told the woman her sins. Done all these things and said, "I do nothing except the Father shows Me first."

They asked Him said, "Why don't You go down there and heal them people down there?" Passed through a great multitude where lame, halt, blind, and whithered; He healed a man with prostate trouble or something laying on a pallet.Said, "Why don't you make the whole bunch of them..." He said, "Verily, verily," Saint John 5:19, now. "Verily, verily, I say unto you, the Son can do nothing in Himself, but what He sees the Father doing, that doeth the Son."

I believe in the trinity, the--the three attributes of God, Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, but not three Gods. See? I believe there be three attributes, absolutely; I do that with all my heart: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, but they are not three Gods. They're just three attribute. Or other, three offices of God. God lived once in the Fatherhood, Sonship, and now the Holy Ghost. It's the same God in three offices. And they have... And Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, is not no Name of God. God has one Name, and His Name is Jesus. The Bible said the family in heaven is named Jesus, and the family in earth is named Jesus. That's right. So God had one Name, human Name. He was--had a name called Jehovah- Jireh, Jehovah-Rapha, that was His titles of Deity. But He had one Name, Jesus. That's Him.



-- William (prophet@email.com), February 13, 2001.


Several good answers from several different perspectives. Thank you all for your responses.

Kindest Regards,

Craig Miller

-- Craig Miller (cmiller@ssd.com), February 13, 2001.


Jmj

William, I see that you really are a member of a heretical Modalist sect, such as the United Pentecostal Church. How sad that you don't believe in the Trinity -- three Persons in one God.
Less sad, but still unfortunate is the fact that you know next to nothing about Catholic Church history, but you think that you have the right or duty to list untruths about my religion here. Please avoid this kind of nonsense in the future: "Sprinkling was formed by the Catholic church about six hundred after the death of the last disciple. The Father, Son, Holy Ghost was adapted at the same time, because Catholic people worship different gods."
You can come back and prattle to your heart's content about your own religion's history and beliefs, but avoid mentioning Catholicism from now on. It is something of which you are fully ignorant.
You also might want to try to avoid using double negatives, which reverse the meaning that you intend. Your words were: "Thou shalt not have no other gods before Me." Since the "not" and the "no" cancel each other out, your scriptural misquotation ends up meaning, "Thou shalt have other gods before Me."

St. James, pray for us. Virgin most renowned, pray for us.
God bless you.
John

-- J. F. Gecik (jgecik@desc.dla.mil), February 13, 2001.


This thread is ''The True Interpretation of the Godhead'' Is there one, and one only? Yes; the interpretation of this mysterious Truth, in the Holy Catholic Church. The Father begot, not made, His Eternal Son. The Son knows and loves His Father. The Father loves the Son. Their love is Infinitely holy and perfect and generates from both Father and Son, the Third Person, the Holy Spirit. Three Persons, One God. Each Person is God entirely; The Three make One only.

In the Holy Incarnation, one work is appropriated to the Person of the Son. Of the Three Jesus is Man and Redeemer. ''Appropriation'' means assigning a work, name or attribute--to a Divine Person as though belonging to Him alone, whereas it belongs really to All Three Divine Persons. All works outside God, with creatures, their preservation, their sanctification, etc., are common to the whole Trinity. But by appropriation we speak of the Father being Head of the Holy Trinity and Author of Creation. The Holy Ghost is Divine Love and the Author of our sanctification. It should be noted that when we say the Holy Ghost came to the Apostles, it doesn't mean He alone of the Blessed Trinity entered the souls of the Apostles. On the principle of Appropriation, we ascribe to him a work done by all Three Persons acting together. Only by assuming a created nature could a Divine person act alone (The Incarnation of Our Lord.)

(The Monarchian heretics (c. 200) asserted that that Father, Son, Holy Spirit were mere modes, or manifestations of the same Divine Person.)
I took the above notes from Apologetics and Catholic Doctrine, (1954) A course of Religious Instruction for Schools and Colleges, by Archbishop M. Sheehan, D.D. an Irish edition, at the time in its 4th edition. This was pre-Vatican II, but I'm positive it is strictly orthodox today.

Holy Mary, pray for us and our forum guests, Amen!
Dear Saint James, pray for us! Amen.

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), February 13, 2001.



J.F dont cry cause you can't understand a simple commandment, just pray about it.

Eugene, I read your whole reply and failed to see one scripture to back what your history books says. Why did you not put Scripture in your replys? without Gods word backing you up, your only explaining how you THINK it is, and not what it really is....

-- eric (structure@hotmail.com), February 13, 2001.


Thanks, eric, for your answer and new question. Are you a trained and educated theologian? I'm not. But I have this book, PLUS the Bible. Both the book, entitled *Apologetics and Catholic Doctrine* --and the *Bible*, come to me courtesy of the Catholic Church.

The book isn't the Holy Scripture. But it is based largely on the scriptures, and on Church Councils that took place in the early days of the Church. The one thing it definitely is NOT, is ''how you (Gene) think it is, and not what it really is''(Quote,ERIC). It isn't from my thoughts. But I do believe it, on the authority of the Catholic Church.

Aha! You say; the Catholic Church. And I reply, ''Eric,if the Catholic Church doesn't suit you, --why're you readingthe Bible which the Catholic Church gave you? You may weaselaround by saying ''God's word.'' Have you heard a single word out of God in your life? No. But you read the scripture

The scripture was written down by Catholics --way, many hundreds of years before the invention of printing. It was hand-copied (the originals coming to us from the Evangelists) in Catholic monasteries by monks and brothers of the Catholic religion. Same thing with the Councils ofthe early Church. These were attended by the bishops of theCatholic Church. They had the authority given them by Christ and His Apostles, to explain the doctrines that I have in my book of Apologetics. In other words, the apologetics I quoted here today, are backed up by the Word of God, who gave it to the Apostles through Christ. The Apostles gave it to the early Church. The various Councils made up of bishops of the early Church, and other holy writers, pronounced on the truth of the Gospel in exactly the way the Catholic Church teaches it! How do we know they were correct in the teachings? The Holy Spirit is in this ONE Church, to guard it against error. How do I know this? It's in the Holy Bible. Look it up; I don't have the time today. You do your best, eric.
Good luck and God be with you, in your search for His Truth.

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), February 13, 2001.


Thanks, Eric, for your answer and new question. Are you a trained and educated theologian? I'm not. But I have this book, PLUS the Bible. Both the book, entitled *Apologetics and Catholic Doctrine* --and the *Bible*, come to me courtesy of the Catholic Church.

The book isn't the Holy Scripture. But it is based largely on the scriptures, and on Church Councils that took place in the early days of the Church. The one thing it definitely is NOT, is ''how you (Gene) think it is, and not what it really is''(Quote,ERIC). It isn't from my thoughts. But I do believe it, on the authority of the Catholic Church.

Aha! You say; the Catholic Church. And I reply, ''Eric, if the Catholic Church doesn't suit you, --why are you reading the Bible which the Catholic Church gave you? You may weasel around by saying ''God's word.'' Have you heard a single word out of God in your life? No. But you read the scripture

The scripture was written down by Catholics --way, many hundreds of years before the invention of printing. It washand-copied (the originals coming to us from the Evangelists) in Catholicmonasteries by monks and brothers of the Catholic religion. Same thing with the Councils ofthe early Church. These were attended by the bishops of theCatholic Church. They had the authority given them by Christ and His Apostles, to explain the doctrines that I have in my book of Apologetics. In other words, the apologetics I quoted here today, are backed up by the Word of God, who gave it to the Apostles through Christ. The Apostles gave it to the early Church. The various Councils made up of bishops of the early Church, and other holy writers, pronounced on the truth of the Gospel in exactly the way the Catholic Church teaches it! How do we know they were correct in the teachings? The Holy Spirit is in this ONE Church, to guard it against error. How do I know this? It's in the Holy Bible. Look it up; I don't have the time today. You do your best, Eric.
Good luck and God be with you, in your search for His Truth.

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), February 13, 2001.


Amen William and Erik God is true in you because your understanding of scripture is from God. 1 John talks about those who are led of the Spirit and those who arent, you both are led by Jesus. Praise the Lord for our salvation.

-- Alex is saved by Jesus (Jesusislife@Christianemail.com), February 13, 2001.

AlexJr, blind man--William the Prophet another poor blind man, and hopefully Eric-- you won't try to follow the blind. There's nothing at all wrong with your love of the Word of God. But the interpretation of it won't come from Alex, or ''Prophet'' William. They're the blind, trying to lead us. Something tells me you're not as misguided as they are.

Most Glorious and Sacred Heart of Jesus, we adore Thee!
Most Sacred Heart of Jesus, we love Thee!
Most Glorious and Sacred Heart of Jesus! Have Mercy on us! Amen.

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), February 13, 2001.


Greetings: Gods word say that though we were blind now we can see because of Christ. Its those who claim to know that are in trouble. 1 John 2:27 As for you, the annointing wich you have recieved from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach to you; but as His annointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you abide in him.

Again Gods Word reveals the false claims of men who are void of the Spirit of truth. Jesus is joy and freedom everlasting to whom can we only approach the Father. Thank you Jesus

-- Jesus opens the eyes of the blind (Jesusislife@Christianemail.com), February 14, 2001.


Yes, but you need to accept Jesus' teachings as they were, not just as you think they should be, else we are still blind.

..................................

-- Anthony (fides_spes_et_caritas@hotmail.com), February 14, 2001.


"When God speaks the Word, He doesn't need any man or any woman, or no one else, to say what That means. When He said... Well, you say, "God meant this." God means just what He says He means."

Oh, yeah...look around you at the world!!!!!!!!! God doesn't need interpreters...WE do. If "God means just what He says He means," than how come so many of the passages have multiple logical interpretations.

In addition: GOD DIDN'T SPEAK THOSE WORDS IN ENGLISH!!!!!!!!

Stop all this silly cut-and-paste, and either speak from your own knowledge or reveal your sources!

...................................

-- Anthony (fides_spes_et_caritas@hotmail.com), February 15, 2001.


It's ironic that the thread which starts out: ''True Interpretation'', goes on with two of the awfullest interpretations to ever stink out the joint!

These characters have no clue about interpreting scripture, and label it it *True* after crossing their fingers behind their backs. Might as well have them pick Lotto numbers!

Most Holy and Eternal Trinity, Almighty Father, we bless Thy Holy Name and praise you for Your Glory; Only-begotten Son and Infinite Glory of the Father, Lord Jesus Christ; Holy and without equal is Thy Name, Most Holy Spirit Our Paraclete and Strength in this life, Eternally with the Father and the Son, One God; As was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be, world without end. AMEN!

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), February 15, 2001.


Anthony:

you sound like you have a temper/deamon, maybe you should take a break and unplug!...... as far as i can see it, william has said very thing that is scriptural, whereas you say " say what God said" and God mean what he says" well Anthony here is a challange......

All Bible Base..

Find me anywhere in the bible where...

1. Anyone prayed to mary

2. Anyone baptized in the Father, Son, Holy Ghost..

3. Anyone ever paid another persons way, out of hell..

4. The word Trinty is menched

5. Anyone Believed that the wafer was the Real body of Jesus (cannabalist)

6. Any where that Jesus said to denominate to an orginazation

that should kepe you searching for awhile....

-- eric (structure@hotmail.com), February 15, 2001.


Eric,
Anthony will surely make you his own, better, kinder reply. But anyway I make this suggestion. You need Bible quotes to bring you around? You thought nobody without a Bible quote could possibly be right? If it's in da Bible, you have no problem? Here's a worthwhile project for you: Any library has the newspapers' articles in their archives going back for years. You might also include in the project back issues of Time, Newsweek, etc., for their reporting.

The subject: Waco , and the Branch Davidian blowout. A story of the self-deluded David Koresh; nothing but the typical self-interpreted Bible expert. In these reports, look at the masses of biblical quotes a madman can bring to his followers. Look at the way Satan can warp the words of the Holy Scriptures, if you think Bible verses are simple, or clear for a good non-Catholic. Say what you want about your interpretations and William's; they may be fine for your faith.

I want God to personally assure me. In the guidance of the Holy Spirit, the Catholic Church has the POWER of Jesus Christ to stand for its interpretations of Scripture. No other Church does. No other preacher does, and certainly no Tool of Satan like William Ima Prophet does. If you want to believe him, do that. This forum is not for you.

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), February 15, 2001.


Eric,

Actually, it's quite rude to post here and insist people look up what you tell them to. Hardly appropriate behavior. What you SHOULD do in my opinion, is take each of the points you want proven, find some reason that you believe they are NOT true in scripture (since that's all *you* have to work with), and post your opinion of why something's false using the referrences to back it up, and let people respond to that.

Why should you expect people to do a lot of legwork for you when you could get the answers yourself just by looking at old threads on this forum?

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), February 15, 2001.


Thank you eugene and frank. And no, there will not be a nicer post coming from me. Eric was right about one thing, I do have a tendency to let these yahoos get me riled.

The reason why you don't find these things (except for #5...that one I have already provided SEVERAL scripture quotations to back up. FIND THEM!!!) is because it wasn't time for these things yet (why pray to Mary when she's still alive? Why deliniate "Catholic" when EVERYBODY'S CATHOLIC!?). I contend, you do not find the negative, either!

Where does it say the dead can't hear us and intercede (actually, Revelation says they CAN)

Where does it say it's okay to slice up scripture (face it, the books were in until the 1500s)

The word "Trinity" isn't mentioned BECAUSE IT'S AN ENGLISH WORD!!!!

These CONCEPTS are supported, just not their modern-english names. Wise up!

...........................

-- Anthony (fides_spes_et_caritas@hotmail.com), February 15, 2001.


Anthony, if you'll be so kind as to let me add.....

Matthew 28:19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit..."

Acts 2:38 "And Peter said to them, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

Acts 8:16 "for it had not yet fallen on any of them, but they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus."

Acts 10:48 "And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to remain for some days."

Acts 19:5 "On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus."

-- jackiea (jackiea@hotmail.com), February 16, 2001.


Well, John, I may not have mentioned it on this particular answer (I know I did on others....) but this came from the ewtn site as well. And here is the answer.....

It has always seemed clear to the earliest Apostles and priests and missioners that Jesus wanted baptism in the name of the Trinity. So they acted and baptized in the name of the Trinity. In fact, I think any baptism in the name of Jesus alone would be invalid. So the reason is 400 years of Trinitarian baptisms around the world before the Bible was prepared by the Bishops. They obviously accepted the earliest practice of the time. God bless. Fr.BobLevis

-- jackiea (jackiea@hotmail.com), February 16, 2001.


Not to mention, Anthony and John B., that the scripture may relate the references of saints to the sacrament, but the Church is the source of doctrine. The fact that trinitarian form is completely according to Sacred Tradition makes biblical interpretation moot.

I know non-Catholics will leap at the bait. How can YOU dare say the Bible isn't necessary!!! Jesus said it; that's plenty good enough for the Catholic Church. (Matt, 28: 19).

To insist in any way that Our Lord's words can be gainsaid, in a matter so crucial and important to the salvation of mankind, is to rebut in the style of those hypocrites (John, 7: 52) who said to the good Nicodemus: ''Art thou also a Galilean? Search the scriptures and see, that out of Galilee arises no prophet.'' I search the scriptures when there is doubt only.

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), February 16, 2001.


Jmj

Hey, "eric." You like rolling through the nationalities, don't you?
Dr. TaiChi [China] = Dr. Oizo [Japan] = eric [Scandinavia] = how many others???
You are consistent about a few things, though: baseless anti-Catholicism, inability and unwillingness to learn, inability to convince, and other characteristics that make it possible for you to be picked out of a crowd.

It's time to leave us in peace, Unix-man. Please do not come back here any more. You do nothing beneficial to us or to yourself. You serve only the "father of lies."

May God help you.
John

-- J. F. Gecik (jgecik@desc.dla.mil), February 17, 2001.


Don't anyone even think of clicking on this cretin's link. It has a virus in it, as sure as shootin-- If Moderatorum ad forum wishes to excommunicate this BOZOMAXIMUS; Godspeed!

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), February 17, 2001.

Thanks, Eugene.
Now you are seeing what I'm talking about. That was truly sickening. There are really bad folks out there.
Old Eric Oizo (TaiChi master) told us several weeks ago that he was (I think) a Unix operating system technical wizard, so he tried to scare us with his devilish nonsense. He is not capable of doing any harm. He probably needs help zipping himself up.
St. James, thank you for watching over us.
God bless all.
John

-- J. F. Gecik (jgecik@desc.dla.mil), February 17, 2001.

You gave away too much info, enemy. For those without protection...go here.

http://iha.future.easyspace.com/trojans.htm [Link is legitimate, this is a helpful post, not a trick. Moderator]

-- wouldn't you like to know???? (a fellow catholic@abc.com), February 18, 2001.


When you go to that site, click on The Cleaner v1.9d. You will need WinZip or other zip format to "unzip" this file. This goes through and checks for viruses and allows you to "clean" up if any are found.

Thanks, Moderator. :) *wink*

-- jackiea (jackiea@hotmail.com), February 18, 2001.


OK, I'll buy your first premise, I'm dumb. Are you somebody what hacks Catholics, or a Catholic who just hacks?

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), February 22, 2001.

Um, CatholicHacker, you most certainly CAN get a virus by clicking on a link. I've seen an ActiveX virus that downloads itself when you click on a link to a page in which the virus is embedded. And there are plenty of others in the lab. Not many in the wild, though.

Try a spellchecker, a little more judicious use of punctuation and perhaps some further experience in IT. Might be able to get a job that way.

-- Andy Atheist (happy.smiling@atheist.com), February 22, 2001.


[Andy Atheist, Thank you for your replies, and Welcome. FYI as I haven't seen your handle around before, the posts you were replying to have been deleted, as the poster was given a suspension from posting for threatening another poster, and other *serious* abuses of the forum. Moderator]

-- hackysack (cathacker@yourhouse.com), February 22, 2001.

Look, hackysack, whether you know it or not, and whether you like it or not, you CAN code an ActiveX "virus." Another thing you may not know is that there are WAP viruses running around now, so be careful how you use your cell phone. At any rate, applets like OCX.exploder (there are plenty of others) meet the definition of viruses. Go check it out.

"give me an "ActiveX" link andy. plzeee give me one, so i can see..."

Okay. Here you go. Read this to get educated.

http://www.halcyon.com/mclain/ActiveX/welcome.html

Try this, too. I'm starting you off slowly, so you don't get lost.

http://www.cantrip.org/javirus.html

Okay, now speed up. Hope you can read Indonesian.

http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Heights/5618/activex.htm

Note that the author of the first page states that he has removed the link that *used* to have Exploder in it due to legal threats from MicroSoft. However, I'm sure that an inventive young person like you can find Exploder still up somewhere on the net. This is an excellent starting point for you. Please report back to us when you have finished your search.

Be sure to read this, too.

http://www.dailyemerald.com/tech/archive/000229.shtml

Ah, heck, I'll make it easy for you.

http://localhost.ruhr.de/~death/security.html

"and then go read "virus for dummies" before replying here!"

Gee. You mean my degrees and my twelve years of experience in IT don't apply? Gosh, I'm depressed. To think that a twelve-year-old could read a book and get smart. . . NOT.

"show me one link on the WHOLE internet that starts to dwnload at the click of a "hyperlink" and i will show you up to 5 yrs in jail time,..."

Really? What if I find you a link hosted on a Filipino server? What US court has jurisdiction there?

"every .exe prompts you with permissions for dwnload before proceeding. its a code principle in windows you fathead!."

Didn't say it was an EXE. Said it was an ActiveX virus. Actually an ActiveX command set, but I wouldn't expect a script kiddie to know about that.

"Andy dont ever respond to my quotes until you know what your talking about!!"

Okay. Only if you promise to never post again until you can fix all your spelling, grammar and punctuation errors.

"My advice to you andy is go read " What is a computer"... that will be $300,.. or give it to the catholic church instead.. (smile)"

Pocket change. Listen, hackysack, after you finish high school and college, you give me a call. You might be trainable for a job in Information Technology.

We now return you to your regular discussion of all things Catholic. :)

-- Andy Atheist (happy.smiling@atheist.com), February 22, 2001.


Is it safe to come out now?

I've suffered such a blow to my self-esteem; 63 yrs-old and not only atheists talk down to me. I have Beavis and Butthead in my face too. "HeHeHe . . ." But at least I can hold my own in a spelling bee.

Maybe I can convert an atheist, if I fast and pray and give up wine for lent. (((Give up wine???))) Andy, does an atheist have enough courage to give up wine for a worthy cause?

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), February 22, 2001.


andy-->You mean my degrees and my twelve years of experience in IT don't apply <---|.... Its funny how that I don't have a degree or havn't went to college but got an IT job dealing with world wide networks and developing websites by just learning on my own, and know ALOT more than this (wantabe andy).

I read that whole website from the link that you gave me, and DID NOT see ONE place where i could find any type of virii to auto dwnload by just a click of a hyperlink..... I want a virii in my computer andy!.. why dont you just email me your phone #.. i would be glad to square off with you in ActiveX chat! or do you get in any chats? IRC? anything? IM? . let me know andy, if your not chicken! (smile)

-- cypher (sonic_designs@yahoo.com), February 23, 2001.


Moderator --

Thanks! I promise to be polite, and to walk away if I start to get intemperate. :)

Eugene --

"Maybe I can convert an atheist, if I fast and pray and give up wine for lent. (((Give up wine???)))"

I'd never ask you to give up wine! I make it a practice never to ask someone to do something I wouldn't do myself. :)

"Andy, does an atheist have enough courage to give up wine for a worthy cause?"

ROFL! This atheist doesn't!

Cypher --

"andy-->You mean my degrees and my twelve years of experience in IT don't apply <---|.... Its funny how that I don't have a degree or havn't went to college but got an IT job dealing with world wide networks and developing websites by just learning on my own,"

Cypher, there are a lot of people working in IT without degrees. However, there are a lot of people working in IT *with* them. Usually, the people with the degrees are managing the people without them. And I will point this out, too -- *anyone* can get a job as a website developer. You can just about shave a chimp and get him a job as a website or Java developer. I don't say that to insult you, but the IT world is different than what you appear to think.

"and know ALOT more than this (wantabe andy)."

I don't have to defend it to you or to anyone else. It exists, I've seen it, I gave five links for another poster (or perhaps you under a different name) to peruse, and the fifth one had the link that was requested. Try again. Oh yes -- with all your alleged knowledge, you do not seem to know how to spell "a lot." I really hope your coding isn't as sloppy as your spelling.

"I read that whole website from the link that you gave me,"

Ah. You read ONE site. Try reading all five. Especially the last one.

"and DID NOT see ONE place where i could find any type of virii to auto dwnload by just a click of a hyperlink..."

That would be because you didn't read closely enough. Try again. Go back. Reread all five sites. Do some research of your own, like a real IT professional would do. Only script kiddies beg for information. Your behavior belies your claim of being an IT professional.

"I want a virii in my computer andy!"

Well, then, you're a rather foolish person. No one with any sense WANTS a virus. Except perhaps script kiddies who want something to dissect and use against others. Giving you something like that would be like giving my eight-year-old nephew a loaded pistol. You'll either hurt yourself or hurt someone else.

"why dont you just email me your phone #"

Because I bill out at $200 an hour, and I have paying clients. I've got very little time to deal with people who want something for nothing. Would you expect your doctor to set a broken bone for free?

"i would be glad to square off with you in ActiveX chat!"

I don't "square off" with people who issue challenges and then fail to follow up on the proof they were offered. You have your proof, and you have a brain to do your own research. Look into it.

"or do you get in any chats? IRC? anything? IM?"

Now why on earth would I tell you that? I already gave you what you asked for, and you didn't even bother to READ it. Besides, chats are all too often the domain of script kiddies. Thanks for confirming what I suspected.

"let me know andy, if your not chicken! (smile)"

Oh! Oh! The nasty little script kiddie called me a NAME! It hurts! It hurts SO BAD!

NOT.

I've been on the net for a long, long time, Cypher, and one thing I have found is that there is ALWAYS someone smarter out there. But at the same time, the way to get smarter YOURSELF is to talk POLITELY to others. Talking politely will often convince the knowledgeable people to SHARE knowledge with you. Being strident and demanding usually convinces people that you're not mature enough to handle more knowledge.

-- Andy Atheist (happy.smiling@atheist.com), February 23, 2001.


Dear William, you've explained the way you understand it. The Catholic Church is first to proclaim the Holy Trinity. You are sure to say:''That's not in the Bible, trinity is an invention to fool us.''

But Trinity is just a word which means ONE--but in THREE Persons. Your definition is ''three offices, or manifestations, but ONE God''. So you haven't really left the Church behind you. It stands squarely in front of you.

The Church means ONE GOD, and the One only God lives an interior life consisting of and united in three separate, equal Persons! In ONE ETERNAL LIFE! You know who those Three are.

They are not Jesus Christ with two other identities. They aren't Father Jesus, Son Jesus and Spirit Jesus. Each Person is a Real Person, and each is God in His fullest Being. However, the Three do not ''become'' three gods. One God is the Three Persons.

Not in manifestation only, in Trinity. Compare it for your concept to ONE house, with Three Windows, each window a different Person, But still the One House. --I mean you've come close to the mystery, but not in its revealed reality.

That is revealed in and from the Apostles and their Church.

This is the very same Church in which all your own ancestors worshipped God. That's a historical fact, at some point backward in time, depending on your race. There is no way you can deny it, historically.

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), March 02, 2001.


William,

A mighty claim for a non-biblical scholar

Sikós thon martnría anakrivís einai.

Respond to that and we *may* start taking you seriously.

antío!

(ps - sorry for the roman characters...this board won't do greek)

....................................

-- Anthony (fides_spes_et_caritas@hotmail.com), March 02, 2001.


Dear Will,
Even if you think the people of intelligence here (Catholics) are at a big disadvantage because they're too smart to ''know God'' the way a dumb yokel can know God; let me assure you, plenty of uneducated and ranch-bred and ordinary folks believe the Catholic faith. It isn't because they're illiterate, and it isn't because they have theology or knee-ology degrees. It's because they've accepted the TRUTH. The truth from God, through His Church. We have plenty of feeble-minded believers in the Church, William; you ain't the only one!

The main difference is, they aren't mule-stubborn and full of PRIDE, like you. Your gospel is the gospel of William, and you base it not on the Word. You base it on prejudice and self-love! I accuse you; just as you felt entitled to accuse the Pope of being antiChrist. Two can sure play that game.

You haven't gotten to first base here because your ideas are a crock. Nothing but phony corn-pone. Your poor ancestors who were devout Catholics must sure be proud of you. Maybe when you're down in Purgatory, one of them will say a prayer for you in heaven. ''Lord Jesus; our boy the preacher, he's been in that sad place now seventy-seven yars! When's he coming out Lord? He was a God-fearing minister! What's a difference if he preached hate against Your Church? Can't you forgive Him now, for our sakes? We were faithful to your Church, all of our folks. It was that ''reforming'' bunch that pulled the wool over William's folks and William himself.''

Our Holy Saviour will answer: ''Thanks to your prayers, and the prayers of many other Catholics who met William, I HAVE forgiven his sins, and his embracing false teachings, and distorting the Word of God. He won't go to hell. But he denied Purgatory so strenuously, that I've kept him in it seventy-seven years. I want him to accept Purgatory now; he's got it coming as his temporal punishment for defying My Church. Maybe in seven hundred years I'll consider pulling his sorry @ss out of there.'' Ha ha ha !!!

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), March 02, 2001.


Hey, Eugene, why does William have an apologetic donkey in Purgatory?
["... I'll consider pulling his sorry @ss out of there ..."]

-- (jgecik@desc.dla.mil), March 02, 2001.

Oh, no John,
That prayer was from his own Catholic ancestor, in heaven. He never thinks of those ancestors any more. They would have defended the Catholic Church to their dying breath. So would've Sharon Guy's. It is sad, how the devil has sifted so many Catholics, like wheat. (Luke, 22 :31)

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), March 02, 2001.

Hi, Adam, --hey eugeney what was the best experiance u have ever had in your chiristain/ catholic journey????

Does my name amuse you? Well, it should. I'm stuck with it.

In answer to your question, the best thing ever happened to me, my Baptism. Without that, I'm doomed.

I've been up I've been down; Our Lord has been merciful. In a great flurry of answers to all my prayers the Sacred Heart of Jesus showed immense mercy and love for me. My life changed radically for the better. I'm a very happy man now. I hope you are too.

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), March 03, 2001.


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