In today's Ronnie, FS explains that of course they know that the club they were trying to buy has gone bust but NUFC are looking to buy the franchise agreement.

Would they then have to effectively set up their own club? I assume they could still buy the bankrupt club and use it's facilities. This seems an awfully long winded way of doing things. Why can't they just buy a controlling interest in a club to get the same benefits?

-- Anonymous, February 09, 2001

Answers

AP4U

-- Anonymous, February 09, 2001

I just read the Ronnie's bit, heheheheheee I bet they feel a bit stupid reporting that NUFC were to buy a club that dosen't exist any more.

I bet Niall and Biffa pull them to pieces over it, they seem to like taking the piss out of dot cock and the Geordie beano.

I would like to know a bit more about the Australian football League. I know that they are going to reduce the size of the league and that a few other clubs in England have a stake in some of them. Perhaps or Ozzie pals on here can post a few details about the clubs in the league, IE how good they are , what kind of support they get and who they think Newcastle should try to do a deal with.

The ronnie suggests that Newcastle in Aus wouldn't be a bad idea. What about Perth Glory aren't they better? I would have thought that only one club in Melbourne could pay, and with South Melbourne being one of the bigger clubs, why try to buy the farachise off Melbourne Carlton?

Howay Ozzie toon fans , get your ideas on this subject posted.

-- Anonymous, February 09, 2001

Does Newcastle, Australia have team? That would be the obvious choice if they're serious about involvement down there. ;-)

-- Anonymous, February 09, 2001

"...with South Melbourne being one of the bigger clubs, why try to buy the franchise off Melbourne Carlton?"

Simple - 'cos it'll be cheap, and most likely a waste of time and effort.

Oops sorry, I forgot this is part of our Three Point Masterplan to prevent manure achieving world domination. Words escape me - for once! ;-{)

-- Anonymous, February 09, 2001

Ciara, I presume the one called Newcastle United are in Newcastle.......unless Newton Heath have been franchising in every city. ;-)

-- Anonymous, February 09, 2001

Being from Newcastle in Aus, I can tell you a little bit about the club. Firstly they are very near the bottom of the NSL ladder. THe club was born out of the collapse of the previous Newcastle NSL team the Breakers. In the Breakers last season they managed to finish 7th. This year results havent gone their way and now the coach is under fire. Unless results improve he will not be there next season.

NUFC would probably do better to invest in another NSL team, however I would support any move from a club who wanted to throw money at Newcastle United in Aus.

There is not one player at Newcastle I can think of that would be up to playing in the premiership.

Other Aus based toon supporters would be better placed to comment on other teams in the NSL than I am.

Hope that helps a little

-- Anonymous, February 09, 2001

Are there any clubs in Australia worth buying into?

The idea has to be that you can buy a club for a few million which as long as it dosen't make a loss will hopefully uncover one or two young Australian players and also put the name of Newcastle United on the Australian football map, perhaps gaining a few more internet TV fans for NUFC.

-- Anonymous, February 10, 2001

in agreement lama.

I watched NZ Soccer Kingz [who play in B&W incidentally] stuff Aus Newcastle United 5-1 just before Christmas. The Kingz are 10th in a league which is similar to the Premier League in that there is a two-tier system. A coupe of teams at the top and a closely fought battle between the rest. I haven't seen loads [mainly NZ Kingz games] but Perth Glory are one of the better teams.

The standard isn't great but its getting much better year by year.

gus, hiro, tynedale etc?

-- Anonymous, February 10, 2001

Incidently Min,

Newcastle beat the Kings last night 1-0 at Marathon stadium. It looks like the second half of the season may be better than the first for Newcastle utd Aus.

-- Anonymous, February 10, 2001

really? i was out getting trashed in a bar and missed it!

Much rumblings around Auckland about Wynton Rufer and his selection policy [born again christians only it seems]. They've just sold Visselich to a Dutch club for 750,000 as well - NZ dollars i think. So far i've only really been impressed with Harry Ngata [who never starts and i noticed missed a penalty last night] and Mark Burton. They're both nearing the end of their carrers though. The Kingz take on Perth Glory in a few weeks - i was plannig to go but it's in Christchurch and i've just found out they don;t play back in Auckland til March.

I'll post a report next time i see them play if anyone's interested...

-- Anonymous, February 10, 2001

Have I missed something here, Teams from New Zealand play in the same league as Australia?

-- Anonymous, February 10, 2001

Rik I will give you a run down later, tomorrow or Monday.

-- Anonymous, February 10, 2001

Thanks Gus.

-- Anonymous, February 10, 2001

I'll get you started with a couple of comments Rik, though guster will doubtless be able to tell you more as he actually follows the NSL - National Soccer League. In answer to your question 'National' is indeed a bit of a misnomer as the NZ Kingz play out of Auckland. Most agree it's a stupid name but the club, like so many others in the league, have been forced to make many changes of late just to stay alive. It's true that one or two British clubs have started taking an interest in 'soccer' over here - notably Rangers, who recently bought a controlling interest in Sydney's Northern Spirit, while West Ham have toured here once or twice and subsequently taken a few juniors and others on loan. Then of course there's Leeds, whose interest seems to be more in scouting for talented kids than in allying themselves with any one club. And, frankly, for my money that's the only way to go over here at present, though of course it depends on what your ultimate aims are. The NSL remains in a fairly precarious financial position, very much the poor cousin of cricket, Aussie Rules, Rugby League and even Union in terms of visionary leadership, cash, public recognition and crowds. Arguably its support base has never stretched much beyond migrants from football-loving countries, esp. those of European or South American descent (though gus may say something different for the big crowds they get over there in Perth??) Yes it would be 'cheap' to buy into a club over here, but what sort of a return could you reasonably expect? Cheap in itself doesn't make for a good investment, finacial or otherwise. If NUFC had to take an active management interest, then that's hardly going to be easy from the other side of the world is it? And you'd definitely want to be certain your club was going to survive the cut when the NSL is reduced - next year I think - to 12 clubs from the current 15 (it was 16 until Carlton went bust a few months ago). If you honestly believe there's sufficient value in the Australian game to merit some form of investment - and that remains dubious IMO - my own gut feel would be to mirror the Leeds game plan and just build up a scouting network for now, looking especially for youngsters eligible for EU passports. If you do insist on actively investing in a club then do so in Melbourne, which arguably remains the heartland of 'soccer' out here (Perth is just too far away and, while the team is doing great at present, they're still a young creation and frankly could still disappear the way their Rugby League team did - as could other isolated clubs like the NZ Kingz). Personally I'd be far happier if NUFC built up strong scouting networks in the USA, which is also English-speaking and where at least the domestic game and youth scene is streets ahead of what's currently available in Oz.

-- Anonymous, February 10, 2001

Spot on Loony - thanks for that. Do you mind if I e-mail your post to David Stonehouse at the Club?

The Toon buying a 'moribund' Club 12,000 miles (or whatever it is) away, that may well have financial and other liabilities, seems like a idea lacking in commercial focus to me - in addition to which, it certainly does not guarantee you getting access to any top talent anyway.

-- Anonymous, February 11, 2001

I cannot say I agree entirely with my learned friends Lonly and clarky.

The structure of the NSL is close to what Lonly has said, 16 clubs, Carlton folded leaving 15. The body running the show have produced a plan to reduce the league to 12 teams, normal reasons higher class of game etc. The league will give preference to the 15 clubs to see if they can meet the criteria for entry into the 12 team comp.

These are mainly financial, guarantees in the bank, standard of ground, business plans etc. It is felt that not all 15 teams will meet the guidelines. If they do a ballot will be held to drop the teams above the 12. They will do this on region etc by ensuring there are teams from Perth, Adelaide, Brisbane, maybee country Victoria. Melbourne and Sydney have more than 1 team it will be from these 2 cities where the extras are dropped. Canberra is unusual from the point that it may or may not have a team. If they cannot come up with the goods they will be dropped and no help given to keep the current team going. This is because it is only3 hours drive from Sydney.

If there are less than the 12 3 teams have had there nominations accepted by the Soccer Australia board. They have not announced where the 3 teams are from.

There are no "Franchises" as such. It would be a purchase either outright or majority share.

Perth are by far the "Biggest" Club the gates are almost double that of the other teams. If Perth are playing at home the crowd is between 1/3 and 1/2 of the total of all 7 games played.

They are the 2nd newest in the league, the Auckland Kingz are the newest, I do not include Newcastle as they have only changed their name and a small no of staff.

Have to go now more later.

-- Anonymous, February 11, 2001

Be my guest Clarky, though to be frank I can't see what interest Stonehouse could possibly have in the mutterings of one person sitting thousands of miles away, especially one with my imp[ressive list of prejudices. I'm not fishing for compliments there (fat chance!), but I guess in a roundabout way I'm wondering what your purpose would be in forwarding the text ? I'm happy though for you to use your judgement if you think it worthwhile.

Gus - what reaction to the rest of my opinions on the NSL ?

-- Anonymous, February 11, 2001

Part 2

Buying into the NSL.

I do not know what the impression is of Oz players over there, however there are currently about 20 players with Premier League clubs. There are also players in the top leagues of Scotland, Germany, Holland, Belgium and Italy as well as some in the new Balkans, Croatia Yugoslavia and Greece. For a country that has 15 professional teams and no real reserve type structure, that means with a squad of about 30 players each 350 professional players it is not too bad.

Now what has happened here in WA, West Ham toured with Notts Forest a while back. Stan Lazaridis played against both. He literally beat both teams himself. I saw both games and he was really really awesome. West Ham left someone in Perth to watch him in the game against Forest the next week then signed him.

They also left some of the club management behind and established an Acadamy at one of the local clubs. Last year they withdrew from the set up and were replaced almost immediately by Southampton.

They only invested a small amount and supplied some coaching knowhow etc. From that they took on trial and signed a number of young players. These players all got to the reserve team. Some are still there and a couple have been transfered. The amounts were not huge, however the amount made by the 3 (I think) who were transfered were for an amount greater than the initial investment.

Southampton have signed 2 16 y.o. from the same set up.

Now if NUFC (TM) (Dont want to upset anyone) want involvement in the NSL they have 2 options. Buy a club or set up acadamy/scouts.

I would combine the 2 options. Buy into a club, saturate the city with exposure and start an Acadamy, now this Acadamy is not the live in type, it is just supply the coaches and facilities for the young players in the district/city. They will already be available as the resources of the club.

This will also give NUFC (TM) somewhere to send people like Pedro etc to do some coaching to gain real experience rather than just watching etc. The same can be done with players. Want to see how Offiong can play against men? Someone returning from long term injury? While here the players can go to the acadamy help with the local kids. All the kids will then want to go to NUFC (TM) to play. None of this "I would rather go to London" crap.

If 1 or 2 players make it in say 5 years that will probably break even for the club. It has widened the supporter base and increased revenue.

A long shot? Possibly. From Perth playing in England this season there are 4 players in the Premier League, a dozen in Nationwide 1 and 2. We have 1 professional team.

Who to buy? Glory is the best prospect. (No wait Lonly) They have gates averaging 14,000. Have been in profit since forming and are well run and marketed. They are however more isolated than any of the other teams. Although a NZ team plays in the NSL they are closer to the Sydney and Melbourne teams than Perth.

A team in Sydney or Melbourne would have access to a greater pool of talent. Perth has 1 million people, Sydney and Melbourne about 6 million each. They will also be facing competition for players. Rangers own a Sydney team. The older more entrenched teams in Sydney and Melbourne have strong ethnic links to Croatia, Serbia, Greece and Italy. In the early nineties it was almost impossible to get a game in the first teams if your name did not end in a vowel. The current hierachy of these clubs are still the same. It will be difficult to buy into any of these clubs for that reason.

Now all of this I have attempted to do objectively. I have tried to keep my opinions to a minimum and present only facts and business principles.

-- Anonymous, February 12, 2001

GUS, get your ideas written and sent to the club, A.S.A.P. No more do I want complacency bridging on imcomptence.

You knowlege is better than what those fat arses in our marketing (who, are also by the way, 'limply,' letting the North Easts most popular, prominent, LOUDEST, local medium -the Sunday Sun- advertise to 65% of Tyne and Wear that Sunderland is the most important club in the North East by 100% of the time giving the mackems the main headline in NUFC strong holds like South Tyneside and Gateshead and most of Durham, which I regard as a potential cancer to our future generations. BUT THE FUCKING CLUB, THE COFFEE SUPPER BLOKES S. WRAITH, AND M. HANNEN WONT LISTEN OR WONT TAKE ACTION. WHY DONT THEY BAN THE SUNDAY SUN LIKE BOB MURRAY DID. WHICH GAVE HIM THE BARGAINING POWER TO FORCE THE SUNDAY SUN TO CHANGE ITS POLICY REGARDING THE SOUTH OF THE TYNE. Sorry for the little rant, which has went a little off the discussion target.) could ever have.

Anyway 'Why do Man Utd always eventually have to beat the Toon to the punch? Isn't it not time we led on any ideas, and the rest follow?'

-- Anonymous, February 12, 2001

O.K. I'll go along with Gus and say if NUFC were to get invloved with any one club in Aus. it would more than likely be best with Perth. However Perth is privately owned and NUFC could at best only expect to by a minor interest in the club. Oh the reason why Perth get such large crowds is becuase that is where the largest 'english' expat. community live in Aus.

However The Brisbane Strikers are another proposition entirely. O.K. O.K. Gus can belt me over the head for this if he wants but I reckon the Strikers were be a better long term investment.

1) They will be in the revamped league next season as they are the only team from Queensland.

2) They are the only team in Queensland and have taken advantage of it - We have an academy set up in conjunction with the QAS (Queensland Academy of Sport). Quite simply if you are deemed to be one of the top 20 14 year old players in the state you get a scholarship to the QAS, supported by the Strikers. The QAS has three teams; U.14, U.16, & U.18.

3) Queensland schools have a CAD (centre for Athletic/artistic development) program. Which means almost all the larger State schools run 3 CAD programs. 7 schools in Brisbane run soccer programs, at which all members of QAS teams attend. Basically this means these kids take 5 academic subjects and 2 soccer subjects; Which inculde skills and techniques etc, fitness and conditioning, nutrition etc, coaching and referrring licences, and a host of other areas that are associated with soccer, i.e. sports management or sports agent etc. Basically it's a full hollistic aproach to education and sport.

4) Becuase the Strikers are a 'selling club' (financially it's how we stay afloat) by the time the top QAS kids hit 16 they are regulars in the Strikers line up. WE currently have 3 national under 18 kids in the line up and all three have been there since they were in the U.16's. We also have a 14 year old and a 15 year old who the coach wants to throw in the deep end. The 14 year old has been getting rave reviews.

5) The Strikers currently have a deal with Parma (who also own one of the state teams based in Brisbane, and who help send representatives to coach both at the club and QAS. Oh incidently the top QAS kids are members of this club) but are also actively seeking a partnership with an EPL team, apparently with Parmas' permission. We were one of the teams in discussion with Leeds.

6) The Strikers also have every club in the state to draw players from. So any kid who gets missed by the QAS ends up at one of the States top teams anyway and brought to the attention of The Strikers.

Queensland has a pretty structured soccer set up with the Strikers at the top. Then the Brisbane XXXX league competition as the state league. Then various levels of club competions.

7) Finally we're feckin poor and need the investment. The club survives by most of it's top kids going other clubs in the NSL (hello Perth) or overseas. Which consequently reflects our league position near the bottom and poor crowds. Becuase we lose our best players by the time the're 18.

-- Anonymous, February 13, 2001

Some good info on here , thanks lads.

-- Anonymous, February 13, 2001

I was waiting for the banana bender to bite!

All the best players go to Perth from Queensland? Kasey Wherman? He is the only one we have taken. He has only played half of the games he should have because he was in the national squad, injured or suspended!

Perth have all the same things going for it that the Brisbane side do because of isolation. We have 2 high schools with football programs. The Acadamy, currently under Southampton care, the State league clubs as feeders. We have Petkovic the Oz goalie, Whermann, Miller as well. U21 players Milicic, Garcia and another couple of juniors.

Yes they are a private club, however the owner will sell for a profit, but only to the right person. He wants football to be great here.

We have the ex East German national coach, Bernd Stange, his assistant is Mitch D'Avray.

All that and the misconception re the expats in the West. I am sure there are more in Sydney and Melbourne.

Perth Glory have been formed as a multi racial club from the start. Our player names reflect that, Kalergeracos, Miller, Whermann, Deans, Petkovic, Harnwell and a Brazilian holding midfielder Edgar.

Re the franchise bit, It is correct on Niall and Biffas about the teams acepted for next year. It will take something special. As I said earlier the format has been decided, the number of teams have been decided. The current 15 have first choice, then the 3 others nominated second choice. All three of these teams will meet the requirements as the conditions have been public for about a year. The 3 teams also had to put up non refundable deposits. The legal action alone would mean that any one trying to que jump will not be taking part for another year at least.

-- Anonymous, February 13, 2001

Sorry, It would take me too long to type in the address, so anyone who wants to cut and paste can send my ranting to anyone else. You can also throw in my email address, if they want to contact me!

I would also accept a scouting position!!

-- Anonymous, February 13, 2001

Slightly related, but off on a slight tangent as well...............

Is this "Aussie Franchise" thing just a bit of jumping on the bandwagon? Seems to me there are only a few clubs worth persuing and the "locals" are split as to whether a franchise is a good idea or whether we should just form an accedemy type of thing.

Well, if it is bandwagon jumping, then why not try another bandwagon? Without checking for figures, I'd have thought the number of Aussies who have made it big-time in the EPL are not many more ahead of the number of Africans, and Africa is a bigger (certainly population-wise) than Oz). Anybody know of any EPL teams with scouting/accedemy/franchise links in Africa? I've felt for a long time that there's a wealth of untapped talent in Africa just waiting to be found.

As a taster, those who have made it include Kanu, Weah (OK, past his best when he joined City), Song, Camera to mention only 4. None of these I believe came in directly to the EPL. Is English football (and us in particular) missing out??

-- Anonymous, February 13, 2001

French clubs seem to recruit a lot of African player, perhaps due to the many African links in the French population. I would imagine that a couple of teams have set up official links in order to snap up the talent there.

You could say to some extent that we pioneered the second wave of South Americans to join this country, after the original Robledo invasion!

-- Anonymous, February 13, 2001

Yes, I was thinking about the French - and probably some Italian teams as well. To be honest, wrt South Americans, my main worry with them is the distance/time zone difference between tham and UK. With Africa, they're in the same zones as Europe so any travel back home is less disruptive.

-- Anonymous, February 13, 2001