What the Hull..

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Yesterday's stories:

Money grabbing 'Heath trying to maximise their billions

Hull City facing a winding up order over £1.5M

That's 80 grand per Premiership club to bail them out. Should they do it?

-- Anonymous, February 08, 2001

Answers

I think they should. I know it onbly cures their short term debt problem but it would be a nice gesture.

-- Anonymous, February 08, 2001

I heard on the radio that a group of supporters are hoping to raise £300,000 to save the club so that's only £15,000 a club!!

What about buying 9.9% in the club and have them as an unofficial feeder club. Well it would be a good way to offload some dross!

-- Anonymous, February 08, 2001


Personally, I think that a larger portion of Sky's money should go to the lower divisions. I also think that there should be a small tax to the premiership clubs ie 100,000 a year that should be used to help bail out the poorer clubs.

Either that or we could just give them Des Hamilton.

-- Anonymous, February 08, 2001


Kick a club while it's down Kegsy!!!;0)

-- Anonymous, February 08, 2001

Who needs ULL, let them sink.

-- Anonymous, February 08, 2001


No...they shouldn't do it. It will only be short term. Why bail out a football club / business just to make a gesture. Three years down the line Hull people will still be on their arses on a saturday instead of on the terrace. Football's a sport yet it has to be run like a proper business. If Hull City council or the government want to come up with the dosh to save jobs etc, so be it, but balls to other clubs however rich, all chipping in just to keep them alive for a few more years. What happens when Oxford or Brighton get that way....does the plate come around again...and again...and again>

-- Anonymous, February 08, 2001

yep LR... the plate does keep coming round.

-- Anonymous, February 08, 2001

They had a match prosponed the other week that all but finished them off.

The players haven't been paid for about 5 weeks.

-- Anonymous, February 08, 2001


You have to be talking about maybe 50 people losing their jobs,if they go out of business tough luck. I'm sure the likes of Scarbrough or Bridlington fc would be happy to take their place in the football league as the constantly struggling Yorkshire club.

-- Anonymous, February 08, 2001

There are lots of clubs in trouble. Hull is a bigger city than Newcastle and should be supporting a big football club easily. Then you look at clubs like Linfield who are in terrible trouble, are promised lottery money for new stands to help out and are given 150k despite the fact that their ground is also the NI national stadium.

-- Anonymous, February 08, 2001


The heart says "yes" but the heed sez "nah". What makes Hull City any better than (say) Dagenham & Redbridge or other Conference teams trying to make it to the "big" time? If we continue to bale out clubs, purely out of sentiment, then it will starve the FL of fresh tallent.

NB. This assumes that if a team frops out, then their place will be taken in the hierarchy by one from the lower divisions. If it simply stops the likes of Carlisle or Exeter (gotta be careful - there's an Exeter fan at the next desk!) dropping out then I might have second thoughts.

-- Anonymous, February 08, 2001


Rik - "the constantly struggling Yorkshire club" - that title is already taken by Boro though...

-- Anonymous, February 08, 2001

They're a bunch of egg tossers in ULL, give their place to the runers up in the conferance at the end of the season.

-- Anonymous, February 08, 2001

Are Hull in Div 3? There are at least 3 clubs from the conference who are almost full time clubs with a firm financial footing.

The obvious example is Rushden & Diamonds, although their cash- splashing exercise hasn't got them promoted yet!

Even Lr's favourite club, Morecambe have bucket loads of cash thanks to Mr Umbro chief executive!

-- Anonymous, February 08, 2001


Yes, I think they are in the 3rd. My Exeter colleague (no ulterior motice, honest!!) reckons that what may well happen is that they are unable to fulfil their fixtures and would slide to the bottom of the league, to be replaced by the top team in the Conference (thus saving Exeter or Carlisle that fate). This assumes that they will not actually go out of business. He reckons they've been offered another ground to play their games (Carlisle or Exeter???) if they survive.

-- Anonymous, February 08, 2001


I think it's about time the hole league system was updated. I would have thought that the abolishing of transfer fees will put the final nail in the coffin of many a club. It would be wise to makes changes before they colapse. So how this for an Idea. Two Premier divisions of 18 teams each Premier a and Premier B. One national league of 22 teamsbeneath them. Then a northern and Southern feeder league of around 22 teams in each, they can be fully or partly owned by premier league teams.They can if they wish use them as reserve leagues for premiership clubs. If they get to the top two places in the feeder league they can be promomoted to the intermiediete national league. then they either become an independent club again, and go it alone in the higher league, or they can remain in the feeder league.

As an example NUFC buy 50% of Carlise and play many of their reserve players in the Northern feeder league. Decent crowds come to see the likes of Marcelino LuaLua and Diego Gavilan playing for Carlisle. After a couple of seasons Carlise get to the top of the leauge and can be promoted if they wish to the national league. However they will have to become Independaent of Newcastle if they do . No problem here, due to the good performances and attendances, Carlisle are now making a small profit and Newcastle sell their share in Carlisle to Haulier Eddy Stobbard, with his backing the club goes forward and tries to get into the premierB league. Meanwhile Newcastle rescue Hull city, who have been relegated into the Northern Feeder B league, a semi pro league equivilent to the condferance. And the whole process starts again.

-- Anonymous, February 08, 2001


I think it's about time the whole league system was updated. I would have thought that the abolishing of transfer fees will put the final nail in the coffin of many a club. It would be wise to makes changes before they colapse. So how this for an Idea. Two Premier divisions of 18 teams each Premier a and Premier B. One national league of 22 teamsbeneath them. Then a northern and Southern feeder league of around 22 teams in each, they can be fully or partly owned by premier league teams.They can if they wish use them as reserve leagues for premiership clubs. If they get to the top two places in the feeder league they can be promomoted to the intermiediete national league. then they either become an independent club again, and go it alone in the higher league, or they can remain in the feeder league.

As an example NUFC buy 50% of Carlise and play many of their reserve players in the Northern feeder league. Decent crowds come to see the likes of Marcelino LuaLua and Diego Gavilan playing for Carlisle. After a couple of seasons Carlise get to the top of the leauge and can be promoted if they wish to the national league. However they will have to become Independaent of Newcastle if they do . No problem here, due to the good performances and attendances, Carlisle are now making a small profit and Newcastle sell their share in Carlisle to Haulier Eddy Stobbard, with his backing the club goes forward and tries to get into the premierB league. Meanwhile Newcastle rescue Hull city, who have been relegated into the Northern Feeder B league, a semi pro league equivilent to the condferance. And the whole process starts again.

-- Anonymous, February 08, 2001


Administrational nightmare re: feeder clubs.

Your suggestion about Northern and Southern lower leagues is very good.

-- Anonymous, February 08, 2001


Looks like the bones of a decent system there to me Rik.

As you suggest a complete change in the present system will necessarily evolve from this EU transfer malarky.

I personally believe feeder Clubs is a good way forward, and it also avoids the costs associated with the Central League set up.

I suspect a good many Toon fans would rather watch Carlisle or Hartlepool playing with Newcastle's present top youngsters like the Caldwell's, Luax2, Kerr, Green, and Coppinger in a real league and cup competitions, rather than turning up to watch meaningless Central League fixtures. It would also avoid young players like Coppy, McMahon and McGlen having to be loaned out to get competitive experience.

-- Anonymous, February 08, 2001


The down side is less jobs for footballers if our reserves are taking the places of e.g. Carlisle's first teamers.

-- Anonymous, February 08, 2001

Not to mention the "less local" aspect of it. It's one thing going to KP on a Monday night - an entirely different matter to go to Carlisle or Hartlepool. So, these "reserve teams" would really have a different set of spectators/fans. Of course, the opposite side of the coin means we would get additional supporters from Carlisle or Hartlepool.

-- Anonymous, February 08, 2001

OK so how about an "adopt a unfortunate club" policy, whereby the rules are changed to allow the likes of Newcastle and other Premiership teams to field some of their fringe players in the adopted clubs team without having set loan spells. Once again using Carlisle, they could use say half a team full of Newcastle reserves, benefiting both teams. At the moment I belive to save players jobs at these teams they can only have two specified loaners. It might save the players jobs in the short term but in the long term the clubs themselves are going out of business.

-- Anonymous, February 08, 2001

That's the key point Rik - the lower league Clubs will not be able to survive without the continuation of transfer fees. Cost needs to be eliminated to make the situation viable again.

Elimination of the Central League and the adoption of feeder Clubs would remove significant cost from the equation, including via an overall reduction in the number of players - however, that is inevitable anyway.

-- Anonymous, February 08, 2001


Everyone wants to win and get higher up the tree, closer to the rich pickings. The problem is that there are only so many clubs of the right size up there. Too mnay sides get above their station, get promoted and then relegated, have over strecthed their finances and end up worse off than before. (At the bottom end of the league Maidstone, Brighton, further up Palace have struggled form being a yo- yo club, Sheff Wed are in free fall, Bradford will be next year too).

What is required is a bit of stability. The Premiership should become a set of franchises with no relegation for a number of years. Any team consistently failing wil become ripe for buy out and transfer to another city. (Brooklyn Dodgers moving to LA).

We all know who the core sides are for the Premiership, or maybe the core football supporting areas. Team pay an annual fee to play in the Premiership once they have got themselves into it. There should be criteria to highlight those franchises which are ripe for takeover, this could be points gained, crowd size etc. The annual fee should be fairly decent as the rewards are too. The fee should then be used to support the other divisions below the Premiership.

The lack of promotion and relegation may well upset a lot of people, but really, really there are not more than 20 sides worthy of the a top flight division. Fulham look the part this year, but aren't they just Blackburn in disguise. Wouldn't it have been better for Al Fayed to just have bought the Blackburn franchise when Walker died rather than messing around in lower divisions for a few years ? Similarly there should be one franchise for East Anglia and it would bounce between Ipswich and Norwich.

I don't necessarily agree with anything I've said but it's a nice debate :0)

-- Anonymous, February 08, 2001


That's the most sensible thing you've said in a long time MacB. Of course, I mean the bit about "I don't necessarily agree with anything I've said but it's a nice debate"!

-- Anonymous, February 08, 2001

but how upset with me were you up to that point ?

-- Anonymous, February 08, 2001

What happens in the Cup in Rik League?

If we draw Carlisle, our manager says you cannot play X, Y and Z as we may need them in the next round?

-- Anonymous, February 08, 2001


Well, I could see it happening - whether I think it's a good idea is a different matter. I would hate to see the model going the way of American sports.

Fair dos if Alf Ayed bought the Blackburn club, including not only the squad but also the ground and the area in which they play. But if it meant a relocation, lock, stock and Vinny Jones, then I'd be dead against it, as would all football fans.

The idea about stability is interesting - so you wouldn't see promotion and relegation battles? Hmm - just another bland season for 19 of the teams in the EPL then (so whats new?). As for franchise in an area - I'm all for that. City should get the one in Manchester and NHU would have to battle it out with Salford Celtic. Of course, Wearside would be excluded from having a franchise as it would serve no benefit to mankind whatsoever.

I'll tell you what - why don't we get Rik et al to pilot the idea in Championship Manager? If its successful, then we could do away with football altogether and stop all those nasty fans beating the sh!t out of each other.

-- Anonymous, February 08, 2001


Screacher, there you go again finally getting the thread to CM. That's where Rik got the idea of only two loan players from and I for one am pissed off about it because it is stopping me from signing a few Prem players on loan to boost my Posh side.

-- Anonymous, February 08, 2001

In the late forties when Raich Carter was king, Hull regularly got 40,000. They were promoted to the 2nd Div-- had a good season were beaten in the 5th round of the FA Cup by the great Man Utd side 1-0 in front of 55,000. When Carter left, the fortunes of the club went down and have never recovered. It is basically a Rugby League town, and was never able to build a core support at Boothferry Park. In Carter's day it was one of the best grounds in the country, with feeder trains in from the center of the City. I lived there several years, and would be sorry to see it disappear. BUT if the support is not forthcoming, unless a philanthropist comes forward, it may have to go.

-- Anonymous, February 08, 2001

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