I think we are all agreed that the atmosphere at SJP hasn't been great this season. The arguments about people not sitting with their mates and the daunting effect of the new stand only go so far - we managed to raise the roof when we played Leeds at Christmas and to an extent whe we played the SMB and Liverpool. This is just a thought, but maybe it's because there is almost no edge to the games we are playing: we aren't goint to win anything, we're probably safe in terms of the PL table and most matches are pretty much exhibition games? It's one thing to be patient while we consolidate, it's another to be enthusiastic. I know we're Newcastle etc and are supposed to get excited about the lads washing their shirts but there's been some very dull fayre served up this season compared to last season. In fact the games where we have really got excited have largely been where there's been a crap refereeing decision, coupled with the lads battling and really getting stuck in despite fearful odds and a few signs of individual greatness (normally Nobs or Dyer). Is it just good, old fashioned, aching for some greatness? The new stands hardly help minimise our expectations.... Just a thought and by no means an excuse.

-- Anonymous, February 08, 2001

Answers

It's both a reason and an excuse. At the end of the day if the football is crap, no amount of singing and cheering will improve it. The times you need the crowd are when yer a goal down but yer matching the oppostion. We could have sang loud for 90 mins against Everton last week and it still would have been a shoite game.

-- Anonymous, February 08, 2001

I think that between 2:00 and 2:45 the whole ground should be sealed and taken down to between 16 and 32 feet pressure and we should all breathe in pure oxygen for as long as we can bear. At 2:45 we should be released from this and intravenously be given the alcohol equivalent of three pints of beer. As the players run out of the tunnel the ground will be bouncing with atmosphere.

-- Anonymous, February 08, 2001

Free soft drugs at the turnstiles to relax our vocal cords would be a canny idea.

-- Anonymous, February 08, 2001

You mean paracetamol capsules Rik? They go soft if you keep them in yer pocket for a few minutes.

-- Anonymous, February 08, 2001

....and witness increased crisps and mars bar sales before everyone falls asleep....

-- Anonymous, February 08, 2001

On a serious note, when visitors come to St James' a few hundred of them can often raise the roof , It's the same when Newcastle play away. Why don't NUFC send out a questionaire to fans in all parts of the ground asking them if they want to sing and be with others that sing. Then with info in hand they could move all the singers within each stand toi singing sections in each stand. I can't see anyone minding moving up or down, left or right a bit to be in or out of a designated singing section.

that way we could have five or six rival singing sections throughout the ground.

-- Anonymous, February 08, 2001

I suspect it's a combination of the factors you have quoted Dougal.
I hadn't entirely realised how docile it has become until I watched the replay of the Toon v Leicester (4-3) game from '97 on Sky last weekend, during the time the S'ton game should have been played. The noise was incredible - however, as you suggest, we came back from 1-3 and the climax was incredible - the kind of game where you would expect the crowd to be really into it.

I feel the atmosphere will improve somewhat as people get used to their new 'space' and get to know their neighbours. However, there is no doubt that we have a new and sizeable breed of 'soccer spectator' that doesn't, and is unlikely ever, to get into it the way we were brought up to. Thats' why I feel a planned move towards gradually re-establishing the Leazes and Gallowgate ends as singing sections, and gradually moving people around in a non-threatening, way would be a highly positive move for the Club.
In this way we might begin to indoctrinate a whole new generation of "shooters 'n bawlers".

-- Anonymous, February 08, 2001

Problem is I LOVE my seat which is 3 rows from the pitch! There are a few singers in my section but we only seem to get going when both ends are singing the same thing!

-- Anonymous, February 08, 2001

I love my seat, too, although as Jonno always says, it's actually the Newcastle Branch of the Noise Abatement Society. I've seen the bloke in front wince when Jonno started a song... Cracking view, though.

-- Anonymous, February 08, 2001

Singing has disappeared from life in general. Popular music used to be something you sang along to; now it's just a computerized voice layed over a bloody car alarm with a bunch of models wiggling about.

When I were a lad, we had to sing 3 hymns every morning at school, had a school anthem for singing at sporting occasions and songs on the wireless you could join in with. How the Hell are you supposed to learn to sing these days? Please don't say "karaokee" either, as that has been responsible for more damage to music than anything else...even f***ing boy-bands (and I fully intend to hunt down each and every one of those tossers and blow torch them as it is).

As a result, I sing loud and proud, though decidedly off key, as I have spent years singing aloud and don't expect it to be anything else. Football is now blighted with people wanting to watch folk singing in the same way as recording studios are full of "singers" watching backing vocalists and programmers laying down the voices on their records. It's a great bunch of hairy arse.

-- Anonymous, February 08, 2001

>>>>>I've seen the bloke in front wince when Jonno started a song...<<<<<

Aye, he has the same effect on me too - especially after a few beers!

-- Anonymous, February 08, 2001

Thank you, Softie!! Now could I get you to convince a couple of my friends that NStink are NOT the greatest/most talented/bestest thing since sliced bread. eeeeuugghh.

Clarky, your idea makes the most sense in terms of NUFC. I'm pretty happy with my seat, but would be happy to move a bit within my area if it meant being with folks who would sing all the time. I bet if there were decent pockets of singers in each section, or even just the ends, it would get the rest of the place going a bit more consistently. If we can create such a noise at away matches even when the football is dire(Villa replay anyone?), we should be able to do similar at home. If the players won't entertain us, we can at least entertain ourselves. :-)

-- Anonymous, February 08, 2001

I think it is something to do with the hole in the ozone layer

-- Anonymous, February 08, 2001

bring back 'Bettys Crisps' This is obviously a short term solution.

-- Anonymous, February 08, 2001

Yeah, I was wondering what Betty was doing these days

-- Anonymous, February 08, 2001

Just in case nostalgia should creep into this debate. I remember in the dark old days, when we were lucky to make the third round of the FA Cup, the announcer came on the Tannoy (Yes, we had one. Complete with a sophisticated random frequency generator and a small group of devoted Kamakazi mice who ate through the cables on alternate home games.) It was a 3rd round tie and this bloke on the Tannoy informed us that the BBC were in the ground and he was sure they would like to hear the Blaydon Races. The was an immediate request from my fellow supporters for at least a partial refund if that were to take place, and one rather vindictive suggestion that the Chairman, one G-rd-n M- K--g, should have a swift but rather painful operation that would enable him to sing the castrati part. (Always an educated bunch in the Leazes End).

Well, we quickly went 0-2, as was expected those days. About 25% of the supporters spent the afternoon riling Tommy Gibbs, and the rest of us comforted ourselves with our usual Geordie humour and went home refreshed if not content.

Point : You can't demand singing.

Suggestion: Our away support is magic. So, get a load of Toon Army to Central Station at 10:30am on match day. Train them to Carlisle and back, march them with a tight police escort to St James. The rest of us revile them for 20 minutes and -- the outcome would be a joyful noise.

-- Anonymous, February 08, 2001

Great idea sounder, however if the 8,000 of them are then dispersed through 56,000 the effect would be lost.

We need a "home end" or side for the singers to be allocated.

I think it only has to be introduced. Once a large group starts, those who do not like the noise would swap their seats for others as long as they were not worse seats.

What is it worth to one of the "Singers"? Would you swap a good seat for a lesser one to enable you to sing? Would the club allow a swap of ownership for the move to take place?

What would it cost for someone to ask the club to find out?

-- Anonymous, February 09, 2001

Not sure I can agree with the comment about all sound being lost when 8000 singers are distributed amongst 50,000. As Rik says, just a few hundred can still make themselves heard if they want to, never mind many thousands - even interspersed with mutes.

The real question perhaps is what the hell has happened to the many, many thousands who USED to sing louder and longer in a 36000 capacity ground ? Why have THEY hushed up, just cos they happen to be in a bigger ground ? Who else is going to teach shyer newcomers the words to the songs ?

Honestly, against Bradford in the cup I can guarantee there were just 2 people singing in easily a thousand around where I sat (slap bang in the middle of the Gallowgate). Those two were me and this other lad across the aisle (who, for his efforts, got a bear hug and waltz down the steps when Caldwell scored the winner - but I digress!). The next person singing was probably Softie about 20 rows back. Shocked and stunned I was at the change since leaving for Oz only 4 years earlier. There's no reasonable excuse for this group surely ?

-- Anonymous, February 09, 2001

As KK wisely said, "Only Val Doonican can sing sitting down". If you stand up to give it full welly in our section (Gallowgate East Corner)the stewards pounce and threaten all sorts of dire consequences including confiscation of your season ticket. They will even drag the coppers along if you persist, although I hardly think its a police matter.

The reasons given change regularly: no one can see the advertising, someone behind you complained last week, health and safety, you might fall on someone in front, blah blah blah. The club have positively discouraged 'atmosphere' ever since we went all seater, It's too late now I fear.

-- Anonymous, February 09, 2001

Why not bastadise some Fal Doonagin songs and we can all sing sitting down. My seat this season is a wonderful thing apart from the non- singers who, perhaps unknowingly, discourage the enclaves of singers with their "I can't concentrate on the game with this racket going on" look. The elderly man to my right (lasted two games) was panic stricken when I joined in with songs and I honeslty feared I could cause him some medical mischief if I kept it up. For whatever reason he stopped coming and now I am saddled with a Gary Speed hater who despite that corker of a goal a few games back cannot muster anything congratulatory about the man.

It is my sons 5th birthday on the 24th and I am taking him to SJP for the first time to the Man City game, I am going to see if I can get some tickets for the family enclosure. I am really looking forward to it.

-- Anonymous, February 09, 2001

Good point, Loony and Rik about even a few hundred being heard. Witness the away fans section. A few hundred of them have no problems being heard. Of course, the acoustics of their voices bouncing off the glass roof helps. I would bet that even if it meant smaller enclaves in each stand, say 50 people here and there would manage to create more noise and atmosphere on a regular basis than at present. It might also be more feasible to do if the club were looking at only shifting a small number in various locations as opposed to hundreds or thousands to/in one location. It means a bit of work, but nothing worthwhile is easy.

-- Anonymous, February 09, 2001