43rd anniversary of Munich disaster today. The story about Duncan Edwards coming briefly out of his coma, asking whether he could play the next Saturday, then dying almost immediately afterwards is one of the most poignant things I've ever heard.

-- Anonymous, February 06, 2001

Answers

I had a quiet minute for them this morning.

-- Anonymous, February 06, 2001

Last saturday a few of us arranged to meet up under the Munich memorial and sing The Flowers. News must have spread 'cos by 2pm's sing-off there must have been 250-300 there. Didn't really know the tune but hell......we had a go.

Flowers of Manchester .One cold and bitter Thursday in Munich, Germany,

Eight great football stalwarts conceded victory,

Eight men will never play again, who met destruction there,

The Flowers of English football, the Flowers of Manchester.

.

Matt Busby's boys were flying, returning from Belgrade,

This great United family, all masters of their trade.

The pilot of this aircraft, the skipper Captian Thain,

Three times he tried to take off and twice turned back again.

.

The third time down the runway, disaster followed close,

There was slush upon that runway and the aircraft never rose.

It ploughed into the marshy ground, it broke, it overturned,

And eight of that team were killed when the blazing wreckage burned.

.

Roger Byrne and Tommy Taylor who were capped for England's side,

And Ireland's Billy Whelan and England's Geoff Bent died.

Mark Jones and Eddie Colman and David Pegg also,

They all lost their lives as it ploughed on through the snow.

.

Big Duncan, he went too, with an injury to his brain,

And Ireland's brave Jack Blanchflower will never play again.

The great Matt Busby lay there, the father of this team,

Three long months passed by before he saw his team again.

.

The trainer, coach and secretary and a member of the crew,

Eight great sporting journalists who with United flew,

And one of them was Big Swifty who we will ne'er forget,

The finest English keeper that ever graced a net.

.

Oh England's finest football team it's record truly great,

It's proud successes mocked by a cruel turn of fate,

Eight men will never play again, who met destruction there,

The Flowers of English Football, the Flowers of Manchester.

-- Anonymous, February 06, 2001

Loud & Proud, LR

-- Anonymous, February 06, 2001

Such unfulfilled talent.
God bless them all.

-- Anonymous, February 06, 2001

LR, that one with the line "they laid down their lives" (Forever and Ever?) is one of the most chilling football songs I've ever heard.

-- Anonymous, February 06, 2001

Respect.

-- Anonymous, February 06, 2001

Douggie........................Forever and Ever ?

Forever and Ever,

We'll follow the boys,

Of Manchester United,

The Busby Babes,

For we made a promise,

To defend our faith,

In Manchester United,

The Busby Babes.

.

We've all sworn allegiance,

To fight till we die,

To stand by United,

And the Red flag we fly,

There'll be no surrender,

We'll fight to the last,

To defeat all before us,

As we did in the past.

.

For we're Stretford Enders,

With United we grew,

To the famous Red Devils,

We're loyal and true,

To part-time supporters,

We'll never descend,

We'll never forsake you,

We'll be here to the end.

.

For we all remember,

That '58 day,

And the plane that once stood on,

That Munich runway,

As it tried to take off,

For the third fatal time,

The immortal young babes were,

Cut down in their prime.

.

In the cold snow of Munich,

They laid down their lives,

But they live on forever,

In our hearts and our minds,

Their names are now legend,

For the whole world to see.

Why this club's a religion,

Spelt M.U.F.C.

.

So bow down before them,

And lift up your eyes,

For Old Trafford's glory,

Will always survive.

-- Anonymous, February 06, 2001

Respect also, L.R. and to all fans who remember The Busby Babes this way.

I was only a kid but I can still remember the sense of sadness, shock and disbelief in and around our place at that time.

As the title says.....Rest in Peace.

val.

-- Anonymous, February 06, 2001

Talk about milking the dead.

After the Munich disaster isnt that when Man Utd began strongly asserting it's brand name on football? Thus ending the idea that Man City was the biggest club in Manchester.

Well I can see it anyway. Man Utd sure have gained a lot of mileage out of this tradgedy.

Haway man, let them rest in peace.

Look at the pattern of branding in the media (even when they were shit) this tradgedy achieved,

Man Utd=Glorious=Glamourous=Massive=Heroes=Schoolboys dream=every footballers dream=success in the face of adversity etc.

SOLUTION --------------

Man Utd (and media) stop bringing up the subject of the air disaster.

-- Anonymous, February 06, 2001

It's "Howay" unless you're a Makem.

-- Anonymous, February 06, 2001

To Mr. Bravely Anonymous - you're talking gob-sh*te man!

It is entirely normal and honourable to pay one's respects to the dead in such a dreadful tragedy involving the loss of so many young and talented footballers - whichever colour strip they happened to wear.

I would hope we will be similarly sparing a few seconds of our thoughts for the dead of the Hillsborough tragedy in 40 years time - and quite frankly we can do without your cheap jibes which devalue the spirit of this forum and genuine football fans in general.

-- Anonymous, February 06, 2001

This thread has no business being on here. There are many more dead that never have their birth or death days marked here. Jackie Milburn, Hughie, myself etc. What about that African team that perished in a plane crash a few years ago? 43? What's so magical about that number? I am not showing disrespect for the dead but if we mark the death of everybody who died in tragic circumstances here the board would be jammed.

Munich was so long ago - before the lives of most of us - ManUtd milks it enough without any contributions from us. Move on.

-- Anonymous, February 06, 2001

Will you come out and admit who you are, then, pet, instead of hiding behind a made up made up name? What is the relevance of anything on here? What matters my pennilessness? What matters Jonno's little girl's cuteness? What matters Screacher's Chianti? If you don't like the thread, stay out of it.

-- Anonymous, February 06, 2001

Ps. It's not your opinion, it's your anonymity that is disappointing.

-- Anonymous, February 06, 2001

You have got to agree with the clergy man, and Terry, there is something calculating and vultcheristic(Sp?but who cares)about this tragedy. I say, just let it lie, 'let them rest in peace, we will never forget.

A horrible question I know but, how much money have Man Utd made out of the 'romance and story' of the disaster? HOW MUCH MONEY HAVE THE SURVIVORS (BAR BOBBY C), AND DEADS NEXT OF KIN MADE?

And yes Terry, what about other forgotten disasters like that nigerian air crash? or the 71 Rangers fans who where crushed in 71?

This tragedy made the Man Utd brand to what it is today. It helps amplifies the glory legend.

-- Anonymous, February 06, 2001

You have got to agree with the clergy man, and Terry, there is something calculating and vultcheristic(Sp?but who cares)about this tragedy. I say, just let it lie, 'let them rest in peace, we will never forget.

A horrible question I know but, how much money have Man Utd made out of the 'romance and story' of the disaster? HOW MUCH MONEY HAVE THE SURVIVORS (BAR BOBBY C), AND DEADS NEXT OF KIN MADE?

And yes Terry, what about other forgotten disasters like that nigerian air crash? or the 71 Rangers fans who where crushed in 71?

This tragedy made the Man Utd brand to what it is today. It helps and amplifies the glory legend.

-- Anonymous, February 06, 2001

When I used to write a lot for The Mag I recall reading an article about an American sports journo who said that he would rather not write a piece on someone than to criticise them. "If you've got nothing good to say just don't say anything".

As an easily influenced child, desperate to learn evrything there was to know about sport, football in particular, I was so taken with the whole Munich thing. It was the 'what would have happened if the had survived' bit that intrigued me. What would the England team in 66 have been like, would it have been going for consecutive World Cup wins having won in 62 ? If Bobby Charlton was clearly so good and he was in awe of Edwards how great was Edwards ? It was/is all about what might have been. Football is all about our dreams and to have such a big one taken away was awful. All this made me have Man U as my second team, I loved Tommy Docherty's side, I loved it when Newcastle played at Old Trafford and I could go. I cried for them when they won the Premiership for the first time. I was gutted when Fergie turned them into a snarling, arrogant side.

Munich should be remembered, in the same way Bradford, Ibrox and Hillsboro should be. To say it shouldn't be, should be forgotten, I guess because of what Fergie has turned the club into is, at best, churlish and unworthy of this bbs.

-- Anonymous, February 06, 2001

People do remember Ibrox. People do remember Bradford City. People do remember Hillsborough. They were seminal moments in the evolution of the game we go to watch every week. I think most Man United supporters agree that Munich is really what made them the club they are today. There's a little club in Turin that never recovered from a similar disaster and almost no one remembers them, so overshadowed are they by Juventus. All this aside, though, there is something very touching and tragic about talented young men being cut off in their prime in the same way as there is something touching and tragic about almost a hundred people dying at a Cup Semi. It ill-behoves any of us to be too cynical about things like this: the kids that died on the runway have nothing to do with the Monument to Mammon that Man Utd have become.

-- Anonymous, February 06, 2001

MacBeth - I don't know whether you have read Bobby's autobiography but he talks about Duncan Edwards as being the greatest player he ever saw.

-- Anonymous, February 06, 2001

My dislike of Newton Heath and all things accompanying them is well known around these parts but I have to say that I felt physically sick when I read the Clergyman's vitriol in the first place, but then to have someone besmirch the name of a well loved Toon player like Terry Hibbett really makes me sick to the pit of my stomach.

Apart from massaging the historical truth, how can he possibly say that the air crash made Newton Heath the world wide club they are now.........christ a light the have had the same ups and down we all have had since then, and they have also spent time in the lower division since the crash occured.

I really hope that whoever was posting under that name is not one of the regulars on here.

I destest everything that NH now stand for, but I still gave them more that a minutes thought during the day today......I really hope you are ashamed of yourself.

-- Anonymous, February 06, 2001

Thank God for sense and sensibility. Of course all tragedies have their own folks who are deeply bereaved. It doesn't necessarily make one better or worse than the other. What makes you feel for an event is how it affected you. Call that selfish, but that's the way it is.

We're talking here about potentially one of the best, if not the best British team many of us (and the rest of you) can remember. Munich hurt. Not because I was (nor am I) a Manchester United fan. It hurt because I could identify with those who lost their lives and their supporters. It could have been my team. It could even have been yours, Mr Chicken. That it wasn't is to your good fortune.

Yes, of course there are other tragedies, and on the bigger scale of things, I'd say things like Aberfan were as much a tragedy as any of those mentioned here in football terms. Aberfan affected me, simply because I experienced the news bulletins when I was a kid. I could relate that to the mining community where I lived. There but for the Grace of God......

Equally, as a football fan (even in those days), it hurt. Believe me. But that doesn't lessen the effect that Munich had on many in Great Britain. As MacBeth so eloquently puts it, what if??

If you are going to be hyper-pedantic, I'm sure you will be able to recall many other tragedies, totally unrelated to football. The war crimes in Serbia, Kosovo et al. Not to mention those in Africa with the Tutsis. Hootis (sp) etc, the Middle East and everywhere else there is conflict. Some relate to football (as in your example above) and others don't. If you want to go on about those, then please find a forum where that is particulalry suitable. But don't go on there and criticise those who grieve and respect their losses, just as you shouldn't come on here and comment so negatively about Manchester United Football Club and their loss. Above all, this is a football forum for football fans (allbeit with an NUFC leaning) and I like to think that in general, we are all football fans. If you don't agree, then simply sod off.

-- Anonymous, February 06, 2001

Thanks, Screach.

-- Anonymous, February 06, 2001