Tube strike time in London and the streets are full of pale people wandering with aimless desperation round the streets wondering how on earth they'll get home. And getting in the way of those of us who routinely walk home. Where were they when there tubes? Bliddy come-latelies.

-- Anonymous, February 05, 2001

Answers

I heard this snippet of info in the car on the way to work this am, that people are showing up hours late for work, how do they get home or why bother in the first place. Was this a lightening strike or was it forwarned? what do they want? sometimes it seems like England as a nation is held hostage by the unions. I am not saying that they should be dissolved, as they do offer good arbitration opportunities. It has to be said though that more often than not those of us not in unions get grossly hijacked in the process.

-- Anonymous, February 05, 2001

The Unions don't have anything like the power they used to have Syme - the loss of many mass employment industries like shipbuilding, mining, diminished membership, and changes in legislation covering picketing etc. have been all been contributory.

This strike I understand is in protest at Government plans to privatise the London Underground by breaking it up into pieces - thereby risking the same major errors that characterised the privatisation of British Rail, and lead directly or indirectly to the major safety issues that have recently surfaced, and reduced Britain's rail network to utter chaos.

Whether or not you agree with the industrial action they have taken, this is all these workers feel they can do to protest against what they see as further Government lunacy.

There has been an recent increase in this type of action, which IMO opinion has something to do with failures in the democratic process, feelings that politicians aren't listening and reponding to public opinion, and that most of them are crooks anyway.

Frankly, it's all very worrying.

-- Anonymous, February 05, 2001

Excellent points clarky! Being from the NE you and I both know it is hard if not impossible to escape the unions. They are at best constructive tools of modern industry, necessary for workers right, necessary for equal pay, necessary for the democracy of the workforce. At worst they are behemoths of industrial power capable of bringing any country to it's knees (just ask Jim Callahan)

So the Government wants to privatise the underground! Why? Haven't they learned from the mistakes of the shipbuilding industry and BR. What and how will it improve an already antiquated system which needs a complete overhaul in the least. Will everyone lose their jobs and senority? Does the governement already have financial backing for this fiasco to take place. I thought Greater London was an entity unto itself??

-- Anonymous, February 05, 2001

Didn't Red Ken decide this week that it was all gonna be OK and that he's got his (evil?) way?

-- Anonymous, February 05, 2001

"Red Ken"? How very 1983, Screach.

-- Anonymous, February 06, 2001

Bollox! 1 of the 4! points they're striking over is more involvement in the PPP plan....the government have already back down and given them that....the other 3 points are all related to pay and fucking jobs for life.....

If it was our safety they were really interested in then it'd be fair play but it's not, they're just trying to disguise their hijacking of the city behind this.....

Unions are indeed good arbitration services and very worthy when sorting out bad working conditions or unfair treatment of workers.....I don't agree however that they have any place in pay negotiations when all they do is throw their toys out of the pram and hold everyone to ransom.....

-- Anonymous, February 06, 2001

Oh and isn't it funny how black cab drivers who are upset about new rules preventing them from ripping people off at Gatwick decided to use yesterday to block some of the major roads into the city on the day when they were busiest.......and also some group of nutters called Reclaim the streets (or some other such nonsense) also decided to join in with the chaos by protesting......

This country is full of fucking idiots.....

-- Anonymous, February 06, 2001

Right I'm getting off my high horse and shutting up now cos It'll just wind me up more....

-- Anonymous, February 06, 2001

It was the buffoons who'd brought their cars into London that got my goat. It's not like the whole city isn't a massive gridlock at the best of times.. On a personal note, we get free breakfsat at work on strike days and in view of my current pennilessness, this is most welcome.

-- Anonymous, February 06, 2001

Can I take over Gavin? On the subject of stupid Governments i had to leave a party early on Sunday because i was close to bursting with anger of a high horse kind. My gf being Colombian has Colombian friends - anyway we went to a their house in Palmers Green for a kids birthday. We got there and i was in a great mood despite the fact i'm flat broke and its only the beginning of the month. The house they live in (2 sisters) was very smart - 2 floors, 3 beds, garden AEG kitchen with one of those stainless steel canopies over the oven my mother has always wanted. I know neither of them really work (1 of them is a part time "dancer") as they both have kids. So i thought. Anyway, i made polite conversation and asked what they did last night - clubbing. Turns out they spend most nights clubbing. After the converstaion i asked my lady how they could afford it all. Turns out they are 'refugees'. I have every sympathy with people in need - but these pepole are getting everything FREE! they don't pay for anything! how can that be? What tips the balance is that they are sending the money they have surplus back home to help "build our beachside villa" live and let live, but why should i work like a dog to pay tax for this. I'm not a frothy mouthed activist, i don't believe in any party leaning but stuff like this winds me up. As it happens i've calmed down and now realise that life isn't fair and should just shut up and get on with it.

-- Anonymous, February 06, 2001

It's not so much that life's unfair but it is a case of life is what you can take from it, couple this with the basic dishonesty of the majority of people and hey prestos, you're working for the clampdown as The Clash so eloquently put it.

-- Anonymous, February 06, 2001

"....how will it (ie. privatisation og the LU) improve an already antiquated system which needs a complete overhaul..."

You've got the answer in one Syme - it needs massive investment, so the government decides that's the signal to privatise it in order get a major contingent liability off the nations books. It didn't work with British Rail and I can't really see it working with the Underground.

I don't know the details, but I believe Ken Livingstone wants to privatise it in one piece, and seems to be winning the argument with the Government - who having witnessed the appalling failure of the British Rail break-up, have decided to make the same mistake all over again.

If Kenny Boy (not ours!) can succesfully privatise the business in one piece it may have a fighting chance of succeeding.

-- Anonymous, February 06, 2001

I agree totally that the governments plans for the tube are pathetic and a cop out of huge proportions and agree in principal with Ken's plan of raising money in the city to fund the upgrading of the tube but what I don't agree with is the unions and drivers hiding behind this argument to cause yet more chaos (so soon after the rail debacle!) to the public.......they're after more money for themselves plain and simple....they should at least have the balls to admit that....

-- Anonymous, February 06, 2001

...human nature Gav, human nature.
Not saying I agree with it - but in industry it's fairly normal for workers to rally behind 'safety' as the rationale for industrial action when in reality money is the real reason. Get's far more sympathy.
It's generally indicative of poor or deteriorating relations between management and its people.

-- Anonymous, February 06, 2001

A positive suggestion i overheard from a geordie accent walking in was "lets tarmac the whole of this stinking place over and make it into a big themepark"

with strikers underground?

-- Anonymous, February 06, 2001

You're right Clarky.....it just irks me....

Swift, sounds like a plan....when can we start? we could even dress all the locals up in their traditional sequined cocker-knee dress and get them to do the Lambeth Walk for all the punters.....we'd rake it in as a comedy act....

-- Anonymous, February 06, 2001

Swift

About your Columbian refugees. I think someone's been winding you up the wrong end of the stick.

-- Anonymous, February 06, 2001

not so, political refugees they are and now wealthier than me. (not hard)

-- Anonymous, February 06, 2001

Swift! never thought of you as a frothy mouthed activist. LOL (my first ever use of cyberlanguage?) oops heres another one RAOTFLMBO. Brilliant discussion there lads and lasses... thanks for yer rant dougal.

-- Anonymous, February 06, 2001

Nah his frothy mouth is usually from something else......that's for the HISLOP comment! ;)

-- Anonymous, February 06, 2001

Seems I'm going about this all wrong, looking for an honest way into the country so I can earn my own way. So how does one go about becoming a political refugee? I haven't explored that avenue yet. ;-))

-- Anonymous, February 06, 2001

A friend of mine struggling into work yesterday was on a bus when an argument broke out. The conductor (on a route master you understand) tried to intervene and one of the parties said 'it's alright for you mate, you're already at work'. Tension was relieved!

A word about refugees/asylum seekers - they don't get cash they get vouchers and are not automatically entitled to housing. If your Columbian refugees have refugee status already then they will be entitled to the same benefits as anyone else - if they are wealthy on benefits then some fraud is going on because I challenge anyone to be 'wealthy' on social security alone.

-- Anonymous, February 06, 2001

Wendy your last name isn't woo is it? lead singer of the plasmatics??

-- Anonymous, February 06, 2001

Wendy

Are you a refugee from the other palace?

-- Anonymous, February 06, 2001

Yep

-- Anonymous, February 06, 2001

haha Wendy Woo eh....i could've sworn it was Wilson ;)

-- Anonymous, February 06, 2001

Oh okay then Wendy Wilson it is.

-- Anonymous, February 06, 2001

Gav do you remember the Plasmatics and wendy wooooooooooooooooo. dust off them cobwebs man

-- Anonymous, February 06, 2001

i wish someone would give me a ba*tard voucher for my lunch. grumblegrumblegrumble

Blimey, i should be supporting West Ham

-- Anonymous, February 06, 2001

All the stuff that's been mentioned here cites examples of what makes capitalism a basically disgusting system. Going by what every capitalist country seems to get up to, as far as I can tell, makes it just about impossible (for me, anyway) to avoid the conclusion that capitalism equates to greed and injustice.

-- Anonymous, February 06, 2001

PIt Bill,

So what alternative system would you recommend that is devoid of 'greed & injustice'?

-- Anonymous, February 06, 2001

I wasn't dodging your question Mr Clark - I couldn't remember what thread I'd posted the original point, and it's taken me till now to find it.

As for your question, I have to hold up me hands to not having much of a clue what a suitable substitute would be like, but in my snivelling, spineless, cowardly defense, I wasn't advocating getting rid of capitalism, just commenting on how it strikes me.

I suppose whatever could replace it would probably have to include some system for prohibiting individuals amassing obscene amounts of cash au Bill Gates, and I think I'd be very wary of multi national business.

The trouble is, my approach might just be nothing more complicated than envy, and the instant I win a lottery rollover, you'll never hear another peep out of me concerning the evils of capitalism.:-))

-- Anonymous, February 07, 2001

Hey PB, no probs - I wasn't really expecting you to expound Das Capital Mk2.
The real problem is that whatever socio-economic model you come up with, man's own inherent failings - greed, lust, sloth etc. - will inevitably bastardise it.
Besides I'm not giving up me bit of lust for anybody, including Karl Marx!

-- Anonymous, February 07, 2001