I need a good film for night shots

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I am currently a photography student and I was wondering if anyone out in the photography world knows what speed, brand of film would be good for low light black and white shots. I am trying to get shots of local bands at bars and the light is really bad and the 400 speed film doesn't really cut it. I need to know what I can do to get the best out of my camera and my film. I have a Nikon Fm10 right now, and I was also wondering if there are any cameras that anyone can suggest for the type of photography I would like to pursue. If anyone has any answers for me please feel free to email me at leadermatt@hotmail.com.

Sincerely, Matt Leader

-- Matthew Steven Leader (leadermatt@hotmail.com), February 02, 2001

Answers

Matt, it sounds like you don't have enough film speed. Try using 800 or 1600 speed film (or try exposing at an alternate EI). There are several manufacturers out there that offer faster speed films. Go to a camera store for the film. Most supermarkets/Walmart types of stores won't carry this speed of film. Just realize that with the faster speed films, you will get more pronounced grain. If you want little grain or better colors (if you are shooting color), you need more light. Either you have to wait until they put up the house lights or use a flash.

You also didn't mention the speed of your lens. By that, I mean what is the minimum aperture? f/1.8? f/4? The faster the lens (lower f-number, bigger hole), the more light gathering you can do.

Your FM-10 should be fine for this type of photography. Trade-up cameras at a later date.

-- Johnny Motown (johnny.motown@att.net), February 02, 2001.


Matt, if you are using the zoom that was packaged with your camera, chances are it's a bit dim. I have to admit, if you "force" yourself to use a 50mm f/1.8 or f/1.4, you'll find it's very versatile. I have a pair of Nikon FM series cameras similiar to your FM10, but I invest heavily in lenses and proper technique. That may be off the subject, but shoot that FM10 into the ground and make sure you have a fast lens, and you should do fine. I find that Neopan 400 pushes 1-2 admirably, with great acutance and tonal range. Remember that in these low-light situations, grain is often your friend. I've printed landscapes on Neopan 400 (@ei800), but now they are incredibly sharp 16x20's. I've also followed kodak's recommendations for Tmax 100 and Tmax developer, and I hate that smoothing effect on the grain. Grain is what makes up a photograph.

-- Mike DeVoe (cameraservice@gci.net), February 02, 2001.

For your type of photography I'd choose a medium format camera (you can get an old Yashica twin lens very reasonably) and shoot Delta 3200 in it. It can be pushed to a higher speed if necessary.

-- Ed Buffaloe (edb@unblinkingeye.com), February 02, 2001.

Matt,

If your lens isn't at least f/ 1.4 or 1.8, I second the motion of getting a normal 50mm lens of that speed.

I would not recommend the Yashica, as they only had a lens of f/ 3.5, and that's 2 stops (or 4x slower) than a lens of f/ 1.8. With f/ 3.5 and 1600 speed film, your in the same exposure as f 1.8 with 400 speed film. I suspect that's not good enough for you.

Try Kodak TMax P3200 or Ilford Delta 3200 films. These have true speeds of 1000 to 1250, and they are the fastest films generally available today. A good camera store would have these. Also available by mail order through most of the supply houses.

Finally, if at all possible (permitted by the clubs) use a tripod. If you can't bring a big tripod, you might try a table top model.

-- Charlie Strack (charlie_strack@sti.com), February 02, 2001.


I agree with Mike. I too use Neopan, mostly the 1600, which I shoot @ 1000, and I also like the grain. I think that you should also try T-Max 3200, shot @ 3200, and developed in T-Max developer.

I recommend you NOT get a new camera, the one you have is just fine. If you have the money, DO get a good [expensive] Nikon 50mm lens. You will love and appreciate the snap and contrast and clarity you get with that.

chris

-- Christian Harkness (chris.harkness@eudoramail.com), February 03, 2001.



I agree that it is the lens that matters. A good prime (one focal length) lens, probably 50mm f/1.4, will allow you to work in the dark. The more manual control you use, the more you'll learn. I have a pretty full set of lenses, and lately I've just been concentrating on using the 50mm f1.4 because it's a great focal length and it's fast enough for low light.

-- Jeff Polaski (polaski@acm.org), February 05, 2001.

Matt, get a 50mm f1.4 lens. You'll have enough coverage for low lighting without flash, and it's cheaper than a 50mm f1.2. Your minimum film speed should be 1600. The TMAX 3200 will do nicely, I never recalled using the Iford Delta version. All the best and happy shooting!

-- Victor Reynolds (decosta1@hotmail.com), February 06, 2001.

A few things...

1) Twin-Lens Reflex is a *bad* idea for concert photography (except maybe the Mamiya C330 with a prism. Unless the band is at floor- level, and you are in the front row, composing in the waist-level finder will be impossible. Even with a 35mm SLR, at most bar/club shows I find myself 90% of the time focusing and framing at eye- level, then lofting the camera up at arm's length to take the shot.

2) 400-speed film with *well-controlled* flash can work very nicely in the setting you describe. The key is to use bounce flash, fill card (if your flash doesn't have one, white cardboard taped over the top and sides will serve), or hand-held flash *well* off-camera. I have more than a few excellent photos taken in this manner.

3) For available light, I echo what others have said. Fast lenses. Faster film, or pushed film. TMax 3200 if you want a slightly grainy effect, pushed even higher if you want major grain. Delta 3200 for ultra-speed with a smoother grain than TMax 3200. Neopan 400 as previously mentioned, or any good 400-speed B/W film, will push nicely to 800, some to 1600. And don't overlook chromogenic films-- XP2 Super and T400CN can easily be shot between EI 50 and EI 800 on the same roll with no change in development. Chromogenic films have remarkable latitude and a superb fine grain (due to their use of dye clouds to form the image).

-- Jonathan Van Matre (jvanmatre@calmco.com), February 13, 2001.


Matt, A lot of good advises accept the 6x6 story. Fast lense (35 mm) would be my choice. fast film: delta 3200 is perfect (developer Ilford microphen)! also a tripod was mentioned,but this would be cumbersome in bar. My additional advise; use a monopod, you gain another stop.

-- Peter Koning (pekoni@xs4all.nl), February 23, 2001.

I don't think a used 50mm f1.4 Nikkor would cost that much, if you can put older Nikkors on the FM10, even non-AI'd ones, you should be able to get one pretty cheap. If you're shooting wide open, the stop down metering isn't going to be a problem either...years ago when I was shooting music stuff alot, I used FM's and Nikon F's, all with fast prime lenses. However, I also used Rollei TLR's if I could get away with it, primarily using a small strobe high off camera...it would have been great if Delta 3200 was around then, so I don't think Ed's comment is too far off. As for shooting from below a stage, how about pulling a "hail Mary"? True, a TLR isn't great for a huge venue, but it can still work, and indeed they did for many years. That said, stick with the Nikon. If you can afford it, a 180mm f2.8 Nikkor is a terrific club lens, as is an 85 f 1.8. I had great success shooting TMZ at 800 asa running it thru stuff like Ethol Blue (for a gritty look) and Diafine (which worked great for stage lights, and big clubs that were like black holes). Shot alot of Tri-x, using Vivitar 283's either bounced off low ceilings, or just really "dragging the shutter" to let the ambient light burn in. The Nikons are great though, especially if you ever get beer sloshed all over 'em (not that I'm endorsing this). Good luck.

-- DK Thompson (kthompson@moh.dcr.state.nc.us), February 23, 2001.


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