Brethren:

In response to the thread entitled, “Saved without the Holy Spirit”, which Brother Link started, our beloved Brother John Wilson quoted a few passages of scripture. It appears that his intent was to establish that we all receive the Holy Spirit today. I am assuming that his position is not exactly the same as Brother Link’s position. I am assuming that his position is similar to a majority of our Brethren who hold that we all receive the Holy Spirit automatically when we are baptized and thereby saved from our sins. And that this “indwelling of the Holy Spirit” in the Christian is not in any way “supernatural” or “miraculous”. And they therefore make a distinction between the “miraculous” or “supernatural” receipt of the Holy Spirit (such as that received by the apostles and those upon whom they laid their hands) and some “ordinary” measure of it. While Brother Link is contending that Christians today receive the miraculous measure of the Holy Spirit exactly the same as that received at the Baptism of the Holy Spirit of the apostles themselves and the House of Cornelius.

I want to state at the beginning of my response to Brother John’s quotations that I was asked to discuss these verses that He quoted by our beloved Brother Sam Lovall, whom we all hold in high respect. Therefore I am giving this response to them and what appears to be their position which is diametrically opposed to the one held by Brother Link. I will simply give an exposition of the meaning of these passages and in another place I will continue my discussion with Brother Link as to whether these things continue today.

The reason that I do this is because I am convinced that while my brethren will agree with Brother Link that all Christians receive the Holy Spirit today. They would not agree that Christians today receive the same “miraculous” or “supernatural” measure that the apostles and those upon whom they laid their hands received in the New Testament.

I am also doing this because I deem it less confusing to our readers to review these two opposite views, both of which I do not agree with, separately.

I will give a brief exposition, for I have not time for the detailed discussion that such a subject deserves and requires. Such a subject could easily take up volumes and many good and faithful Christians have diligently studied and written volumes on this subject, most of whom hold the same view as Brother John and Brother Sam both appear to be holding. I cannot write such a volume here.

Brother Sam has stated that I would have a long way to go to convince him that the position that I hold is true. I am aware that such is the case and would not have it any other way. I would not expect any man to easily give up what he sincerely believes to be the truth on any subject. But, I promise, Brother Sam, to do the best that I can in the time that I have available to write about these things.

And I want to say to Brother John, that you have simply quoted some verses without expressing exactly your position. But since Brother Sam has asked that I respond to those quotations and he has expressed his view briefly, I will assume that you both hold to a similar view. If such is not the case please correct me. And rest assured that my intent is not to misrepresent you. I am seeking instead to try to avoid too much confusion by arguing against two separate views simultaneously.

The first verse that Brother John quoted is one that appears very much, on the surface, to support the idea that any man in any time that does not have the Spirit of Christ is “none of his”. Especially is this true when the verse is disconnected from the context of the apostle Paul’s discourse in the book of Romans. If this were true is would only be logical that no Christian would want to be in the position of not belonging to Christ for that is where salvation resides. (Acts 4:12). Therefore, it is understandable that Christians read this and are afraid to admit that they do not have the Holy Spirit because to do so in their minds would be to admit that they are lost without Christ.

The passage to which Brother John referred us is this:

Romans 8:9 "And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ."

Before studying in detail this particular verse let us take a brief survey through the first seven Chapters of the Book of Romans.

There are three major divisions of the Roman Letter.

I. The problem of sin and it’s solution (chapter 1:18-8:39). Sin and it’s consequences are set forth in the Old Testament and it’s solution in the gospel. II. The problem of the Jews (Chapter 8, 9, 10): The Jew’s misunderstanding of the law lead to their rejection of Christ and the gospel. III. The problem of application to conduct of righteousness, which is by obedience of faith (chapters 12-16). A. Will the righteousness, which is by obedience of faith, work in everyday life? Will it bring unity among men, both Jew and Gentile, in the one body, the church? B. These last chapters set forth the importance of understanding and applying the principles of the gospel in daily conduct so that all men can live together in harmony and peace.

I. The first main division of this letter is chapters 1:18-8:39. A. It is necessary to get a birds eye view of this division of Paul’s letter in order to understand the eighth chapter in general and Romans 8:9 in particular. B. From Romans 1:18 through the seventh chapter Paul: 1. Traces the origin and development of sin down through the Old Testament 2. He shows that no solution to sin was found in paganism or Judaism. 3. He accepts the fact that Judaism was a God-ordained religion, but its design was temporary and preparatory, because it offered no real solution to the problem of sin. 4. Since the law could not solve the problem of sin, there had to be something beyond the Law, and that was Christ and the gospel.

In order to prove this truth, it was necessary to discuss the nature of the law, its weaknesses and its purpose. These various aspects and weaknesses of the law are contrasted with the gospel in the first seven chapters of this book. But if the law could not solve this problem of sin, how and where could its solution be found? The concluding chapter of this section, chapter eight, answers this question.

Thus Paul’s approach to this problem of sin was to trace God’s promise to Abraham from its beginning through Judaism to its final culmination in Christ and the gospel. The substance of Paul’s argument in this connection was that the church, made up of both Jew and Gentile, was the end product of the promise God made to Abraham and this was God’s solution to the problem of sin.

Why did Paul approach the subject from this standpoint? The Jews had rejected Christ and the gospel. Since the Jews alone were God’s chosen people before Christ came into the world they were insisting that they were still the elect, even after Christ had come. In contending that they were God’s chosen people, they were denying the integrity of the gospel that Paul preached. This is the reason for the detailed discussion of the Jew in chapters 9, 10, and 11. If, after the coming of Christ the Jew remained God’s chosen people, it would follow that the gospel Paul preached, in offering salvation to Jew and Gentile alike, was false, in the Jewish mind. This is Paul’s defense of his gospel of grace, appropriated by the obedience of faith, placing the Jew and Gentile in one body, the church, and on equal standing before God.

But, since it was necessary for Paul to defend this gospel. Why was it necessary? His gospel must have been under attack from some source. What was this source? In addition to the Jews who refused to accept Christ and the gospel there were those who accepted it under false pretenses, or without understanding its full implication. (See Acts 15 and the entire book of Galatians). Judaistic teachers followed Paul seemingly everywhere he went preaching the gospel, and sought to subvert the churches he established and many that he did not establish directly himself. They denied that he was an apostle of Christ, repudiated the gospel of Christ that he preached, and attempted to lead his converts to accept circumcision and the law (see Galatians 5:1-4). Paul’s refusal to bow to these false teachers finally landed him in prison. The Roman Letter is one of Paul’s in depth answers to the Jews who despised the gospel of Christ that he preached, and to the Judaizing teachers that were perverting this certified gospel in the church. (Galatians 1:7-13; Romans 16:17-18).

This raises the question of how Paul defended the gospel and established its truthfulness against all of his opponents? Paul makes two appeals in this letter to the Romans: 1). His discussion of how the Old Testament showed the weakness of the law to do anything about the problem of sin and his appeal to the prophets who announced beforehand the coming of Christ and the gospel. 2). His second appeal was to his having the Holy Spirit and it’s miraculous manifestations of it and his apostolic gift of imparting the Holy Spirit by the laying on of hands. (Romans 1:1 & Romans 15:13-25).

While there is much more that should be mentioned in this connection, to be brief, chapter 8 of Romans is the concluding portion of the first division of Paul’s argument in the Roman Letter. Thus chapter eight cannot be isolated or severed from the flow of Paul’s argument from Chapter 1:18 through chapter seven. Chapter eight is actually an expanded commentary on chapters 3:19-31. The first four verses of Chapter eight form the foundation for Paul’s continued discussion of the above mentioned items and the conclusion of that line of thought in Chapter eight. Let us read the first four verses of this chapter together.

“There is therefore now no condemnation to them that which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the spirit. For the Law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.” (Romans 8:1-4).

Notice the phrase “there is therefore now”, in Romans 8:1. “Therefore” puts the chapter in contrast with something. What is this contrast that Paul is making? Evidently it is a continuation of the contrast that Paul had been making throughout his first section previous to chapter eight. And this is what we would expect one to do who is summing up and concluding a particular argument. The chief contrast that Paul has made from 2:17 through chapter seven is the contrast between the law and the gospel. The word “now” in the first verse of chapter eight further intensifies this contrast.

Paul uses this same means earlier. Notice how he plays upon the words “therefore” and “now”.

“THEREFORE by the deeds of the law shall no flesh be justified in his sight: For by the law is the knowledge of sin. But NOW the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets. (Romans 3:20-21).

And again notice:

“For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. But NOW we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit and not in the oldness of the letter (Romans 7:5-6).

Both the Jews who had rejected Christ and the Judiazing teachers in the church were denying these divine principles. And chapter eight summarizes these principles and answers the arguments of those who were opposed to Paul and the gospel that he preached. This is true whether his opponents were Jews who rejected Christ or Judiazing teachers in the church who were willing to accept the gentiles provided that they would accept the law and be circumcised. But Paul shows that his gospel was spiritual, not fleshly and that it was for Jew and Gentile alike.

Now notice the the use of the phrase “who walk not after the flesh”. The word “flesh” is used in two ways:

1. It is used as a reference to Judaism, which was a fleshly, carnal religion.

“ Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; Which stood only in meats, and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinaces, imposed on them until the time of reformation…for the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of a heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: (Hebrews 9:9,10,13).

The word “flesh is sometimes used as a synonym for the word “Judaism”. I have time for only one example of such use. In writing to the Philippians Paul said: “Though, I might have confidence in the flesh. If any man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more. Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee. (Philippians 3:4-5) ( see also 2 Cor. 5:16; Romans 7:5).). In this verse the word flesh is used to equal Judaism.

Romans 7:5 makes it clear in this context that the phrase “in the flesh” is sometimes a reference to Judaism. “ For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law did work in our members to bring forth death,” (Romans 7:5). “In the flesh” in this verse was equal to being under the law, which was a fleshly system. It is important to keep this in mind for we shall see that this is how the phrase “in the flesh” is used in chapter eight. Finally, Gal. 3:3 establishes this use of the phrase “in the flesh” as referring to Judaism. “Are ye so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?” (Gal. 3:3).

2. The word flesh is also used to refer to the body.

“But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfill the lust thereof.” (Romans 13:14). “And the works of the flesh are manifest which are these; adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, sedition, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings and such like of which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they that do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.” Gal. 5:19-21).

Please notice also that the word “Spirit” is also sometimes used in two ways in the New Testament.

1. The word is sometimes used as a synonym of the gospel. The gospel is spiritual. It has to do with man’s spirit. The word Spirit is sometimes used where it simply means the gospel. Notice this verse, “whoso hath made us (apostles) able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter (the law), but of the spirit (the gospel): For the letter killeth (the law); but the spirit giveth life (the gospel). (2 Cor. 3:6). 2. A second use of the Phrase “in the Spirit” is to indicate the miraculous and direct operation of the Spirit by which the gospel was given and confirmed. It is used in this way to emphasize the gospel in contrast with false teachers who were uninspired and therefore could not confirm that their teaching was from God. “ But I will come to you shortly, if the Lord will, and I will know, not the SPEECH of them that are puffed up, but the POWER. For the Kingdom of God is not in word, but in POWER (1 Cor. 4:19-20). “For our gospel came not unto you in WORD ONLY but also in POWER, and in the HOLY SPIRIT, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.” (1 Thess1:5). You see that in New Testament times the preacher proved that his message was from God and therefore true by doing miracles to confirm that God was speaking through him. Today the preacher proves that his message is from God by showing that he is speaking the same thing that was spoken by those who proved by their miraculous powers to have been inspired of God to reveal the gospel to us.

Now, with this background we can read Romans 8:9 and see just how it fits into this context that I have described and the use of the words and phrases that I have explained.

“But ye are not in the flesh, but in the spirit, if so be that the spirit of God dwelleth in you. Now if any man have not the spirit of Christ he is none of his.” (Romans 8:9).

“But ye are not in the flesh…” This is a direct statement made to the Romans that they were not in Judaism. Does one ask, why would Paul say to the gentiles, “you are not in Judaism”? Let it be remembered that this is exactly what the Judaizing teachers were trying to accomplish. They were trying to bring these Roman Christians, gentiles, into Judaism. These false teachers were more than willing to accept a gentile in Christ so long as he agreed to be circumcised and keep the law. These false teachers were basically saying the gospel was alright as far as it went but it did not perfect the Christian (Gal. 3:3). If a gentile accepted circumcision and the law, would he not then be “in the flesh”; that is under the law, in Judaism, as opposed to being in Christ? (Gal. 5:4).

“…But in the Spirit” is put in sharp contrast with “not in the flesh”. Christians were not in Judaism as these false teachers had been claiming. What was the proof that they were not in Judaism? The Proof was “in the Spirit”. Paul’s argument here is the same as in 1 Thessalonians 1:5. How would “in the spirit” answer these false teachers? The Miraculous manifestations were proof of the gospel received by the Romans. There were spiritual gifts in Rome. (Romans 12:3-8). Paul had even said in the introduction of the letter that he wanted to go to Rome and impart spiritual gifts to them. (Romans1:1). But why would Paul want to impart spiritual gifts to those who already had them? The conferring of spiritual gifts by the hands of Paul would further confirm the fact that Paul was an apostle for none other than an apostle had this power. And such would further confirm the genuineness of the gospel that he had been preaching. Paul wanted to go to Rome and impart spiritual gifts, not because the church at Rome did not have any but to establish his apostleship.

Now, just in case some may think that “in the Spirit” does not mean “to be inspired by the spirit” let me quote what Thayer says. His comment on the phrase “in the Spirit” is: “to be in the power of, to be actuated by, to be inspired by the Holy Spirit, (see Romans 8:9).” Thayer further adds that, “the phrase “in the Spirit” is used in opposition to the phrase “in the flesh”. “In the flesh” and “in the spirit” are in opposition to one another. “In the flesh” was equal to Judaism, or the law, and particularly a reference to the false teachers, who were “natural men” sensual, uninspired having not the Spirit.” Thus this “in the Spirit” of Romans 8:9 is equal to being inspired by the Spirit.

The same Phrase is found in Revelation 1:10 and 4:2. While some may question whether 1:10 means the inspiration of the Holy Spirit of the apostle John, though I think it clearly refers to his being inspired to receive the revelations of the vision in that book. There can be no doubt that this is the meaning in Revelation 4:2. “After this I looked, and behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will show thee things which must be hereafter. And immediately I was in the spirit; and behold a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on that throne.” (Rev. 4:2)

So, one can see that the subject under consideration in this verse is a contrast that Paul makes between those who were “in the flesh” or the Judaizing teachers and those who were “in the Spirit” those who were inspired by the Spirit, in particular the apostle Paul himself. Thus Paul is telling the Romans that those who were “in the flesh” or the Judiasing teachers could not confirm that their teaching was from God and therefore they were “not of Christ” because they were not “in the Spirit” or inspired by the Spirit. So also those who “hath not the spirit of Christ” were those Judiazing teachers that did not have the Supernatural gift of the Holy Spirit as the apostles did and could not show that they belonged to Christ and that their teaching was “of Christ” as the apostle Paul could.

Thus, to take this verse out from its context and cause it to mean that all Christian in every age must have a “non-miraculous” measure of the Holy Spirit otherwise they do not belong to Christ does great violence to this context. And it makes Paul’s words have no effect toward establishing his argument that the gospel was for all men without distinction and separate from the law. In order to show that his words were true and the Judaizing teachers were false he appealed to the miraculous or supernatural powers that attended his preaching and that of the other apostles and those possing the Holy Spirit through the laying on of their hands. And he contrasts it with the lack of such powers among those perverting the gospel as evidence to prove that they were not “of Christ” and “none of His”. In other words, their doctrine had nothing to do with Christ. Paul was not even remotely discussing the idea that persons must have the Holy Spirit in some none miraculous or ordinary sense in every age or they would not belong to Christ. In fact, any non-miraculous “gift of the Holy Spirit” that is not manifested outwardly in any extraordinary way could never be used to support any OBJECTIVE argument such as the one Paul was intricately making in this book in general and this verse in particular.

I appreciate your giving a hearing, Brother John and Brother Sam to this exposition. I sincerely hope that it helps you to see the reason that I am not impressed with the notion that this verse teaches that those who do not “claim” to have some non-miraculous gift of the Holy Spirit automatically received at baptism they do not belong to Christ. The idea that because I consider myself to be in the same condition as were the Samaritans before Peter and John laid their hands upon them that they might receive the Holy Spirit that I might not “belong to Christ” is not even remotely taught in the scriptures. It is especially not taught in this one (Romans 8:9) that you have quoted for us. For they, as was I, were forgiven of their sins and redeemed by their obedient faith in Christ when they were baptised into Christ (Gal. 3:26,27) though they did not receive the Holy Spirit until Peter and John laid their hands upon them and they received the Holy Spirit. For as the scripture says, “when Simon saw that through the laying on of the apostle’s hands the Holy Spirit was given…”

Now, there might be some passage that teaches that all Christians in every age receive the Holy Spirit in a “non-miraculous or not supernatural way until the end of time but I have not found such a passage yet. I appreciate your efforts to show me one but this particular verse does not convince me of it. Let me also say that I have no aversion, and would cause no uproar in the church, over one holding that we have the Spirit in this way. If I received such upon being baptized into Christ, I did not know it. And it seems to me that if I did in fact receive such a non miraculous "gift of the Holy Spirit" without knowing it then I most likely would continue to have it even if I never come to know it. It seems quite likely yo me that, even if I am wrong about this issue I would still belong to Christ because whether I knew it our not I would be in possession of this "gift" and whatever is its purpose and what ever it is supposed to do for me it would do whether I ever knew it our not. I cannot se just how my lack of understanding, if such is the case, would take away a gift that God gave to me without my knowledge.

But I am not convinced that I am wrong about this in the least. But those of you who believe otherwise might at least have good reason recover from your "shock".

But I am strongly opposed to the false doctrine that the miraculous gift of the Holy Spirit that we see in the New Testament continues with us to this day for reasons that I have described numerous times in this forum.

I Pray that our Lord will abundantly bless you in his service.

Your Brother in Christ,

E. Lee Saffold

-- Anonymous, January 30, 2001

Answers

Btw, Jude also mentions false teachers which did not have the Spirit.

Jude 1:18-20 18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. 19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the spirit. 20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

-- Anonymous, January 31, 2001

Brother Link:

I appreciate your following quotation from the book of Jude:

“Btw, Jude also mentions false teachers which did not have the Spirit. Jude 1:18-20 18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. 19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the spirit. 20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,”

Indeed, Brother Link you have in fact provided another verse of scripture that proves the truthfulness of what I have said in the above exposition of Romans 8:9. But I do believe that it is important to notice that these men of whom Jude speaks were not false teachers simply because they did not have the Holy Spirit. Rather, the fact that God had not confirmed their teaching as true by the miraculous manifestations of the Holy Spirit was conclusive evidence that they were false teachers. And anyone today that is teaching anything that has not been confirmed to be the truth from God by the miraculous manifestation of the Holy Spirit is a false teacher. In New Testament times a preacher proved that his teaching was from God through the confirmation of it provided by the Holy Spirit with “signs, wonders, and gifts of the Holy Spirit” (Heb. 2:3,4; Mark 16:17-20). And today we prove that our teaching is from God by making sure that our doctrine harmonizes and agrees with the doctrine of Christ. The doctrine that was delivered and confirmed by these miraculous manifestations of the Holy Spirit which has been “once for all delivered to us” (Jude3) in the pages of the New Testament.

Now from what Jude says we do not learn that a man is a false teacher simply because he did not have the Holy Spirit. For such is surely not the truth. But any doctrine that claims to be doctrine from Christ that has not been proven or confirmed to be from God by the “seal” of the accompanying miraculous manifestations of the Holy Spirit is false. And anyone who teaches a doctrine that has not been confirmed to be from God by the POWER of the Holy Spirit is a false teacher.

Now, we all know that the New Testament was confirmed to be from God by the POWER of the Holy Spirit working “with” those who gave us the “faith once delivered”. (Mark 16:17-20;Heb. 2:3,4; Jude 3; 1 Thess:1:5; 1 Cor. 2:1-4). Any doctrine other than this has not been “confirmed” by the Holy Spirit to be from God and is therefore false. If anyone wants to teach anything contrary to or different from this doctrine “hath not God” (2 John 9-11) and we are to not receive such a man nor bid him Godspeed.

And one can be absolutely certain that no “subjective” or non- miraculous or not supernatural “indwelling” of the Holy Spirit could ever be used as objective and conclusive CONFIRMATION that any man’s words were not his own but were rather from God in heaven. An indwelling of the Spirit that was not MANIFESTED in any outward or objective sense could never PROVE or CONFIRM that any man was a messenger with words from God for all other men to obey.

And when anyone quotes these verses that refer to these miraculous manifestations that proved that the gospel was from God applies them to prove that all Christians in all ages receive a non miraculous measure of the Holy Spirit dwelling within them automatically upon being baptized into Christ. He has simply failed to see that the context and meaning of these passages deal with the miraculous manifestations of the Holy Spirit, which confirmed that the message was from God. And they therefore have no bearing whatsoever on the notion that we receive the Holy Spirit today.

For just as God proved that he sent Moses when he delivered the Law to the children of Israel. Just so God confirmed that He sent His chosen messengers to “once for all deliver” the gospel to us. And he established for all time that they were truly sent from Him by the Holy Spirit which he gave them and the manifestation of his power through the Holy Spirit in confirming their words as the truth. This is the idea of a confirmed revelation from God. Few to day seem to want to claim a REVELATION from God today but many want so desperately to claim for themselves the gifts and powers that were designed for and belonged to CONFIRMATION. But if there is no REVELATION today that is also no need whatsoever for any CONFIRMATION. God’s word has been REVEALED and it has also been CONFIRMED (Heb. 2:3,4; Mark 16:17-20). Just as God is no longer revealing His will he is also no longer confirming it. It has been done and is not happening anywhere today. But if God does decide to reveal something today, which he could if he wanted to, he would most certainly CONFIRM it. WE have the word of God and it is sufficient for all our spiritual needs (2 Timothy 3:16,17; 1 Peter 1:3). WE have all things that pertain to life and Godliness. Let us follow them with full assurance that they came from God with the confirmation of the Power of the Holy Spirit.

The apostles were guided into all the truth and it was delivered to us “ONCE FOR ALL” (JUDE 3) and anyone that does not preach this truth is preaching a doctrine that has not been “confirmed” to be from God. He is teaching a doctrine that did not come from nor was it confirmed to be from the Holy Spirit “sent down from heaven”. The New Testament is that doctrine. And no one can claim to have the Holy Spirit confirming his words to be the truth today without having outward manifestations which is the only demonstrable and objective evidence that one does in fact have the Holy Spirit regardless of what “day” it is.

SO, Brother Link, the fact that you do not have the Holy Spirit is evident from the simple fact that you have NO POWER or any ability to MANIFEST that you have the Holy Spirit dwelling within you. And unless you can show that you doctrine agrees with those whom God confirmed to be his spokesmen in the New Testament your teaching will be false.

Your Brother in Christ,

E. Lee Saffold

-- Anonymous, February 10, 2001