Ballhead & tripod for M6

greenspun.com : LUSENET : Leica Photography : One Thread

I want to purchase a good light-weight tripod and ballhead for my M6. Does anyone have any recommendations.

thanks.....

-- Michael* (mm071799@attcanada.ca), January 28, 2001

Answers

The best ballhead I've found is the Novoflex mini Magic Ball. Beatifully engineered, rock solid and very compact. As for tripods, I have used my wife's small gitzo (steel legs) which I recommend because if you're travelling the screw-type locks don't bang into things and break, which can easily happen with the Manfrotto/Bogen style plastic locks. Not the lightest combo around, perhaps, but very effective and robust.

However, these days I use a monopod with rubber bendy attachment which is much smaller and faster to use and seems to give a couple of stops extra exposure if used with care. Maybe you should also consider the monopod solution.

Rob.

-- Robert Appleby (laintal@tin.it), January 28, 2001.


Leitz large ball head is well made, imo, it is a must have with Leica cameras. However it has only a table tripod. Current tripods are quite bulky.

The best light weight tripod I like most is a made in Germany five section brass tripod with ball hand found in the Red Barn Antique store in Niagara-on-the-Lake.

-- martin tai (martin.tai@capcanada.com), January 28, 2001.


Leitz large ball head is well made, imo, it is a must have with Leica cameras

So anyone who doesn't use this "must have" doesn't take good photographs?

Well enough with the ridiculous statements, and on to the reality of tripods and heads. The issue is that, like anything else, it comes down to what works comfortably for you. I see lots of recommendations for Gitzo tripods, for instance, but I find the twist locks a real pain to use. I sold a Gitzo after a year of trying to use it, and bought a Linhof tripod, which uses flip locks. It's also ridiculously easy to clean. But you may find something else is better for you.

Same thing for ballheads.

www.spirer.com

-- Jeff Spirer (jeff@spirer.com), January 28, 2001.


First my recommendation. I Gitzo Reporter tripod with a Giottos 2001 head (1/3 size replica of the Arca Swiss). Second, I heartily agree with Jeff. The above is a recommendation only (I have a Leica large B&S head I'd love to sell, it's either on or off with no appreicable drag control - very important IMHO, in a ball head). It kind of bugs me too when someone says (in essence) "you MUST have this to be good photographer". I wonder if that's what all the users of the trendy 'plastic cameras' (the Diana and such, there are now numerous websites devoted to these cameras) have to say. Sorry, this is just a personal rant!

-- Bob Todrick (bobtodrick@yahoo.com), January 28, 2001.

Velbon PH 163Q ball head is inexpensive, lightweight, very strong, has a well designed QR plate that won't mar your camera. I looked at about 20 ball heads before picking the Velbon. I have been using it for several years now, and it still works like new. I use mine with a Hukaba Carbon Fiber set of legs which are relatively inexpensive at B&H. The combination is very light weight and can reach my eye level without extension (I'm 5 feet 9 inches tall). The Hakuba legs do not have the problems the Gitzo ones do.

-- Andrew Schank (aschank@flash.net), January 28, 2001.


BTW, I'd stay away from the Leica table top tripod. It looks nicely made and is very solid, but mine came to pieces after the thread gripped and I was left with two pieces of cast iron and three legs - not very useful. Both Nikon and another manufacturer (Hama?) make a similar tripod with incorporated ballhead which has legs which lock into the 120° positions, which is handy. I used one of these recently, but in the end just find all tripods a bit too much like hard work.

As for Martin's comment - surely we all have things we think are "must haves" without thereby meaning that anyone who doesn't have them is not worthy? For me it's the rapidwinder.

Rob.

-- Robert Appleby (laintal@tin.it), January 28, 2001.


Different strokes, etc. - I don't like the Rapidwinder at all :-/

I love the Leica ball-head precisely because it's either "on" or "off". I used to use one in my studio on a Linhof legset - I put a blad with a 150 on it all the time. The reason I like it so much is because my normal way of shooting is handheld - I get the framing I want by holding the camera and pointing it. For me the Leica head interferes least with this process. When I have the framing I want - flick, it's locked in place.

I also have the Leica TT legset, and I can use the combo as a chest- pod or a standard TT. I have two full-size legsets (Manfrotto and Linhof) that I never use these days.

And now...

I think you're all being too hard on those who utter the "must-have" phrase. To infer from it that the speaker feels that anyone lacking the mentioned item is unworthy is, IMO, excessively literalist and over-sensitive. All anyone means by it in my experience is that for them the object indispensible. Relax - they're not really casting aspersions on your equipment choices or trying to force you to use their gear. It's a figure of speech, folks, nothing more.

-- Paul Chefurka (paul_chefurka@pmc-sierra.com), January 28, 2001.


"To infer from it that the speaker feels that anyone lacking the mentioned item is unworthy is, IMO, excessively literalist and over- sensitive. All anyone means by it in my experience is that for them the object indispensible. "

Exactly.

I was surprised the way the Leica TT tripod came apart on me because I'd always thought it was a neat design. It happened just as I was packing stuff to go to Bombay last August. Maybe cast iron is not the best material for screws...

I have a friend in Bombay who's an advertising photographer who never uses full size tripods out of the studio, he just uses the small Nikon ones I mentioned previously. He says there's always some chair, barrel, table, car roof, whatever you can put the thing on. Seems a good idea if you have the time to do it. For me it would just take too much time.

Rob.

-- Robert Appleby (laintal@tin.it), January 28, 2001.


Famous Photographers on Leitz Ball and Socket Head >

"The first night of the course, Helen told each of her fifteen students to buy a specific Linhof tripod and a Leitz ball-and-socket head for the top of it, and to bring these to class the following week. Thirteen of us appeared with our equipment on the second night. When Helen inquired and found out that the other two had not yet made their purchases, she promptly returned their course fee and told them to leave. When they protested she replied, "If you're not serious, there's no place for you in this course" --- Freeman Patterson: A Photographer's Life, ShadowLight

" Leitz ball-and-socket heads have great durability and strength. There are two models.Buy the larger, more expensive one. It is virtually indistructable, exceedingly versatile, simple to use, easily holds lenses up to 300mm and even longer, and will make working with your tripod a real joy. The Leitz head may seem costly. But it is worth every cent of the price" Freeman Patterson, Photography for the joy of it.

Freeman Patterson is a world reknown photographer, he got the highest award of Photographic Society of America and of the Federation intenationale de l'art photographique, Bern Switzerland. He is the author of many best selling photography books.

Obviously some one is quite ignorant

-- martin tai (martin.tai@capcanada.com), January 28, 2001.


Who cares? There's lots of great photographers that used other tripods and did fine.

I'll say it again - it's an ergonomic issue.

Go take some pictures and stop worrying about brand names. Jesus!

-- Jeff Spirer (jeff@spirer.com), January 28, 2001.



Freeman Patterson Website

Learn from the great masters, not from wanna be 'photographer'

-- martin tai (martin.tai@capcanada.com), January 28, 2001.


I shuddered when I first saw this question posted. Somehow I had a gut feeling about the wide-spread answers. I don't think there is any ignorance here - just plentiful opinions. There is even room for those who say not to use an M with a tripod at all - concentrate on the m's best attribute - hand-held grab shots.

I too am just going to go out and shoot pictures - WITHOUT a tripod.

-- Ken Shipman (kennyshipman@aol.com), January 28, 2001.


My web site is here:

www.spirer.com

There are photographs there. Sorry, no pix of jeweled cameras, no Cartier watches or Faberge eggs. That's not what it's about.

Anyone can quote some photographer on something. If you listen to Moose Peterson, who's actually a decent nature photographer (not that I care much for it), we would all have to own Nikon gear in order to do anything.

Abot 99.9% of great photographers have used tripods made by someone other than Leica. And it hasn't stopped them from making great photographs. Because in the end, it's about photographs, not quotes, not Faberge eggs, or miniature toys.

-- Jeff Spirer (jeff@spirer.com), January 28, 2001.


The forum is call Leica photography, not 35mm camera in general-- for which there is photo.net. If Leica tripod is not to be discussed in "Leica photography" forum, where should Leitz tripod to be discussed ? In Olympus forum, in Konica forum ? Leica Camera makes a lot of stuff( including Leitz ball head -- but not AFAIK, they do not make Hexar ) If some one can discuss other brand name, why not Leica ball head ? If

-- martin tai (martin.tai@capcanada.com), January 28, 2001.

Someone is taking his anti brand name crusade everywhere, in Leica forum, this guy is fighting Leica brand name, in Rollei list, he fought Marc Small- a reputed Zeiss/ Rollei expert

http://www.digistar.com/rollei/2000-02/0133.html

If some one so adverse to "brand name", why participate in brand name forum ??

-- martin tai (martin.tai@capcanada.com), January 28, 2001.



Come on guys give it a rest. Jeff has his single "I take photos - I don't care for equipment" rant - which he takes to an absurd degree, and Martin is interested in Leicas, and Leica collecting and is an extreme Leicaphile. Never mind, it is all aspects of the Leica phenomenon. Can't we all be happy campers? I don't think Martin's initial ball head recommendation was extreme: after all he did add an IMO didn't he?

-- Robin Smith (smith_robin@hotmail.com), January 29, 2001.

I currently have (afer trying many combinations) a carbon fiber Gitzo, Arca Swiss ball head-B1, and RRS (really-right-stuff) mounting plate. This combination is rock solid and can be used with many differnt formats as well just by adding a custom RRS plate to each camera body. Yes the Gitzo took some getting used to the twist-locks, but this makes for a SIMPLE lock. POnce while hiking in the Sierras, my Gitzo acquired some pine sap on the legs and fouled the locks. This would have fouled any lock. In the field, I broke down the locks and cleaned them with alcohol from the 1st aid kit, put all back together...worked like new. My Bogen could not have been cleaned so easily. The Arca head will support MF camera and lens without problems and remains rock solid. I jus wish I had found this combination earlier..would have saved a ton-of-money. Best of luck

BTW: I had the Novaflex..not the mini..I found it well made but not as secure as the ARCA..I suppose the mini would be less secure with anything but the smallest of systems.

-- Don Maldos (maldos@home.com), January 29, 2001.


My wife uses the mini magic ball for product/tabletop food photography with F3, drive and 100mm lens (not particularly heavy) and seems to be very pleased with it. I was impressed with it the little I actually used it, although after carting the damn thing around for a month last year I actually used it about twice. Seemed to be ideal for leica M, maybe a bit undersized for long heavy lenses, I don't know. In the end, as someone wisely said, it's a matter of what you feel comfortable with, i.e., I'm not disagreeing with you on this rather flammable thread! :)

Rob.

-- Robert Appleby (laintal@tin.it), January 29, 2001.


Geeze, with all the bickering about brands, I almost did not share my opinion! But, since I am opinionated, and since Michael asked for recommendations in the ORIGINAL question for this forum, here goes!

Over the years, I have used many different tripods. My current favorite for 35mm use is the Gitzo carbon fiber G1228, with a Gitzo #2 ballhead. It is very light-weight and extremely sturdy. It also fits in a carry-on sized suitcase with the head unscrewed, which means I actually have it with me when I need it! This tripod is not without faults -- 1) I don't like the twist-lock leg system. 2) It is expensive, just like Leica gear... but is also of very high quality, just like Leica gear. The Gitzo ballhead is also light and of high quality, and has a separate pan control, which I like.

Lastly, if any workshop leader told me I had to purchase a different tripod/head combo to be qualified to take their class, I'd tell them where to store their tripod!

Jack

-- Jack Flesher (jbflesher@msn.com), January 29, 2001.


This "great master" that you speak of said it like this:

However, in my view, no amount of technical knowledge and competence is, of itself, sufficient to make a craftperson into an artist. That requires caring -- passionate caring about ultimate things. For me there is a close connection between art and religion in the sense that both are concerned about questions of meaning -- if not about the meaning of existence generally, then certainly about the meaning of one's individual life and how a person relates to his or her total community/environment. This is not to say that every work of art is or should be a heavily profound statement, indeed many may be very light-hearted, but rather that consciously and unconsciously an artist engaged in serious work is always raising or dealing with the question: "What really matters?"

not once, that i can see in this statement did he ever mention anything about specific tools used to make photographs. he then goes on to say:

In the broadest sense I photograph Nature, which includes human beings. Growing up in a rural community, I was surrounded by natural things. Unlike a child in a totally urban environment, my friends and peer group were not only other children, but also wild and domesticated animals, plants of every sort, brooks and waterfalls, rocks and sand. In winter I listened to the wind-chiming of ice-covered branches, wandered through spring's greening fields, splashed about for minnows in the river, and gathered bouquets of autumn leaves.

it seems that some people here may need to ask the question he asks of himself, "What really matters?"

-- grant (g4lamos@yahoo.com), January 29, 2001.

hohum...

-- Robert Appleby (laintal@tin.it), January 30, 2001.

I have a metal walking stick with two telescoping sections. It is fitted with a 1/4" x 20 tripod screw, and supplied with a wooden knob which can be unscrewed from the tripod screw. In its place I installed a small inexpensive ball head, which has some plastic parts. It won't hold a Leica R with 90mm Summicron, but it will stabilize an M camera with a light lens, or an SLR with normal or wideangle. This is my companion on outdoor walks. I found the walking stick in an outdoor hiking/backpacking store, not a camera store. I also have a small Gitzo with appropriately sized Bogen ball head. This is also appropriate to the size and scale of the Leica M.

I have a Leica ball head. It isn't the larger, more expensive model. After a few years of use, it developed a trick. When I tension its lock, it flies apart into two pieces! I can snap it back together if I apply enough force. But then it comes apart again the next time it gets used. Needless to say, it doesn't get used.

-- Bob Fleischman (RFXMAIL@prodigy.net), January 30, 2001.


With Leica M system I use the Leica Table Tripod, a Gitzo 026, and a small Kaiser ballhead with a Kirk Enterprises Arca clamp attached permanently with LocTite. I also carry an older Leica ballhead 14121 which has reversible threads on both ends and can be used with either the table pod (1/4") or the Gitzo (3/8"). For travelling with the R system, I prefer a Bogen 3001 with a Bogen Medium ballhead (with Arca clamp)and the table pod/Leica 14121 also. I do not carry very long or heavy lenses in R system; with Hasselblad I carry Gitzo 1228/Arca B1, and with Nikon F5 and 300/2.8 + converters I like Gitzo 320/Arca B2. For macro work, I have Benbo Trekker (35mm) and No.1 (Hasselblad). There is no such thing as a do- all tripod.

-- Jay (infinitydt@aol.com), January 30, 2001.

Moderation questions? read the FAQ