Using Konica 28mm M lens on CLE, rangefinder ramblings

greenspun.com : LUSENET : Leica Photography : One Thread

I remember seeing a few comments by someone who was using the new Konica 28mm lens on their Minolta CLE, but couldn't find it in the archives. If I remember correctly, they were extremely happy with the Leica like level of quality in the optics. What is a good price for the Konica 28 these days? I have been looking for a finder coupled 28 and am also waiting on the new Voigtlander lens. I talked to the THK sales rep today, and he said the new 28 f1.9 will be ready to ship in about 1 month from now.

I also wasn't certain if the Konica lens would bring up only the 28mm lines on the CLE, does anyone know this for sure? I know the Minolta 28mm from that system brings up the 135mm lines in an M series camera for some reason. The info about this at CameraQuest was vague. I went in today to a camera store that had been carrying the whole new Konica system to try out first hand the 28 on my CLE, but they told me they weren't selling at all and had shipped the stuff back to Konica. They also told me the sales of the Bessa R and L were brisk right in the beginning with all the press coverage, but they had died out as well. I wonder if this is a local isolated phenomenon, or if the "rangefinder renaisance" was actually a short term anomaly that has again been replaced with more high end SLR's and digital cameras.

-- Andrew Schank (aschank@flash.net), January 25, 2001

Answers

The Konica 28mm is coupled to (and activates) the 28/90 frame lines in the Hexar RF.

I've also heard that the Hexaar RF is a very slow mover, but assumed that this was mostly due to its price. I'm disappointed to hear that the Bessa is also not selling well, even with its much more favorable pricing compared to the Hexar RF. I think that ultimately, RF's will remain a realtively small niche (albeit a significant one) in the world of cameras.

-- KL Prager (www.pragerproperties@worldnet.att.net), January 25, 2001.


It must be getting late! You were asking about how the Konica 28mm works on the Minolta CLE. Oh well, I had good intentions anyway...

-- KL Prager (www.pragerproperties@worldnet.att.net), January 25, 2001.

In our market (Alberta, CDN) the Bessa has sold quite well and we are still getting a lot of enquiries about the camera, both as a system, and as well, Leica shooters wanting to add an extra lens or body to their systems. The Hexar never sold well, due of course to the price. The body with 50mm was more than a used M6 w/50 in really good shape. Most buyers seemed to think that at the same price the Leica quality was more important than the auto exposure and film wind of the Konica.

-- Bob Todrick (bobtodrick@yahoo.com), January 26, 2001.

Andrew

I have to say I have always thought it very unlikely that there would be much of a real lasting rangefinder renaissance - I don't think the market is really there - this is the one of the reasons why Leica stuff is so expensive - they KNOW the size of the market. I prefer the Bessa stuff - at least that is significantly cheaper and is quite nice as far as it goes. I doubt that either Konica or Voigtlander/Cosina will ever sell enough of them to break even. 28mm are expensive aren't they in Leica M? The new 28m summicron will be $1995 or thereabouts....

I have never seen the Konica 28mm only the 50mm and the 90mm. Sorry, yet another non-answer!

-- Robin Smith (smith_robin@hotmail.com), January 26, 2001.


The Konica 28 will bring up the wrong framelines on a CLE. It will bring up the 90 frameline. You can file the bayonet mount tab that controls the frameline selection to work correctly but it would be easier, and less expensive, just to pick up a used CLE 28mm. The CLE 28s have a problem with element separation on the edges so check carefully.

There are three different frameline sets in an M camera. When the CLE was introduced there was no 28mm frameline in the M cameras. The CLE used the 50mm position for the 40mm and the 90mm position for the 90mm. Minolta naturally used the M 35mm position for the 28mm as it gave three separate frames. Leica had already paired the 35mm and 135mm framelines together and put the 28mm with the 90mm. I think a little chronological chart might help here. (Frame sets are numbered from the neutral position on)

Camera neutral centre position fully engaged

M3* 135 50 90

M2 35 50 90

M4 135/35 50 90

CL not used 40/50 90

CLE 28 40 90

M4-P 135/35 50/75 90/28

*The M3 always has the 50 frameline in view and just adds the 90 or 135 when selected.

I hope this helps.

Cheers

-- John Collier (jbcollier@home.com), January 26, 2001.



How about:

camera / neutral / centre position / fully engaged

Sorry,

-- John Collier (jbcollier@home.com), January 26, 2001.


Maybe I'll wait for the Voigtlander fast 28. It will be less expensive than the Konica, and it might be useful to have that f1.9 sometimes. I can use the leica M to screw adapter for a 135mm lens, and then the 28 lines come up in the CLE.

-- Andrew Schank (aschank@flash.net), January 26, 2001.

ABout John's comment that "the Konica 28 will bring up the wrong framelines on a CLE. It will bring up the 90 frameline," but I'm using the Konica M-Hexanon 28mm f/2.8 on my Minolta CLE and the lens brings up both the 28mm and 90mm framelines as it should. The Konica 28mm was brought straight from a shop and mounted onto the CLE without any modification. I've taken about a dozen roll of slide film with this combo and I haven't notice anything wrong with the framing of the pictures. Are we talking about the same Konica 28mm?

-- Hoyin Lee (leehoyin@hutchcity.com), January 31, 2001.

If you own a CLE be happy. It is a wonderful camera. If you bought a Konica or Leica 28mm lens for it please, please, please PLEASE don't file anything! Repeat: DON'T FILE ANYTHING. The Leica / Konica mount will turn up 28 / 90 frame lines as it would on a Leica or Hexar.

The Minolta CLE's 28mm lens is weird in that its M mount is equal to the Leica 35 / 135mm mount. That is, if you mount the Minolta on, say, an M-6 you'll get the 35 / 135mm frame lines. Mounted on the CLE it turns up the 28 mm lines WITHOUT the 90mm frame lines. That is all that happens. It is more elegant. If you are used to the 90mm frame lines when shooting 28mm with your Leica you might find the state of affairs eerie.

But, importantly, nothing terrible happens by using Leica / Konica 28's on a CLE. I tried the Konica 28 on my CLE and found the lens hood blocked the focusing patch. I turned it around and then the focusing patch came back. I found having to fiddle with this lens hood bothersome enough to pass it up. But I'm quirky, as I expect most of you are. The Konica 28mm lens is a real beauty I have to say. Nice balance, great depth of field markings. I imagine it must be a good performer, though I haven't seen it compared to the Leica 28.

Now if you want to get the "true" 28 frame lines on your CLE AND the 28 / 90 lines on your M-6 do the following. Get a screw mount 28 and 35 / 135 and 28 / 90 M adaptors. Used the former on your CLE and the latter on your M-6. The new Voigtlander 28mm f 1.9 is nice.

If you get a Minolta CLE 28mm and want to use it on your M-6 you can get a professional to mill it for you so that it will pop up the 28 / 90 frame lines and not the 35 / 135 frame lines. Of course you'll have to live with the 28 / 90 frame lines on your CLE. My advice--or plea--is LEAVE IT ALONE!!! The Minolta CLE 28mm is a rather rare classic and deserves to be kept in its original condition.

If sales of rangefinder cameras and lens aren't "brisk" where you live and you really want the rangefinder to survive tell people how wonderful they really are. I started with SLRs and zooms. Then I went to rangefinders. There was lots of cheap used stuff around. Old Canons and lenses went for a song. I paid $100 for a Canon 28mm f 2.8 lens.

-- Alex Shishin (shishin@pp.iij4u.or.jp), May 05, 2001.


Several people have mentioned filing or milling the Minolta 28mm to bring up the 28mm frames on a Leica. Sorry, this doesn't work. You can mill the lens mount to go from 28mm to 50mm to 35mm, but going the other way requires adding metal to the mount. Since the Minolta lens brings up the 35mm frame, you need to add metal to go to 28mm. This is a much trickier and less reliable operation that filing or milling and probably costs more than the Minolta lens is worth.

-- John Sparks (jsparks@agilent.com), May 09, 2001.


Thank you John regarding that point. You have to add metal to your Minolta 28mm. One more reason to leave it be. If you find one a don't have a CLE handy, use it on an M-3, an M-4, an M-5 or any other camera that does not have a built in 28mm frame. Buy an auxiliary view finder. Cheaper and less of a hassle than adding metal.

-- Alex Shishin (shishin@pp.iij4u.or.jp), May 28, 2001.

I was reading back through older threads and came upon this one. Very odd debate whether this 28mm lens or that 28mm lens would bring up the right frame lines in a Minolta CLE. The 28mm frame lines are ALWAYS visible on a Minolta CLE no matter what lens is on it. The 40 and 90 frame lines appear as necessary. Those here who have said that the 28mm lines dont appear with the Hexar is quite funny since they are always there!

-- Joel Matherson (joel_2000@hotmail.com), July 05, 2001.

Now that is a very good point, Joel. We're quibbling over the extra frame lines. Do extra frame lines matter that much when you are actually out in the field as opposed when you are at home and brooding?

-- Alex Shishin (shishin@pp.iij4u.or.jp), July 28, 2001.

Moderation questions? read the FAQ