above

-- IRENE JOHNSON (irene.johnson@bms.com), January 24, 2001

Answers

Jmj

Hello, Irene.
Since you used the singular -- "What is ... the main difference ...," I assume that you looking for just the most important difference.

Since nothing and no one is more important than Jesus himself, the best answer I can give you is this:
------ Thanks to the unbroken Apostolic succession from the first century, the Catholic Church has valid priestly ordination, making possible the "confection" of the true and valid Blessed Sacrament (Holy Eucharist) -- the real Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Jesus -- under the appearance of bread and wine -- whom we can receive each day of our lives at Holy Mass.
------ The Lutheran ecclesial communities [there are various denominations], lacking Apostolic succession and valid priestly ordination, cannont confect a true and valid Holy Eucharist. For four or five years, I played the organ for a Lutheran community, and I respected almost everyone I knew there. So I say, without rancor or disrespect, that the Lutheran worship is a painfully pale shadow of the Catholic Mass, since Jesus does not really become sacramentally present (though the people think He does). It is heartbreaking for me to think about this, because it touches me so closely. You see, someone close to me led his family of four into Lutheranism, and the younger of the two children, whom I dearly love, has never truly made her First Holy Communion.

God bless you.
John

-- J. F. Gecik (jgecik@desc.dla.mil), January 24, 2001.

The Apostles' Creed continues to be used as the baptismal profession of faith in most Western churches; Orthodox churches prefer to use the later Nicene Creed. In Roman Catholic practice, the Apostles' Creed is also recited in the daily office, before the first and after the last service each day. In most Protestant churches, it is used periodically at Sunday worship. Anglicans and Lutherans use it regularly in morning and evening prayer (matins and evensong).

I believe in God, the Father almighty, Creator of Heaven and Earth. I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord. He was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary. He suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried. He descended to the dead. On the third day he rose again. He ascended into Heaven, and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting. Amen.

-- Alberto Ponce (sabueso2@usa.net), February 03, 2001.

-- Alberto Ponce (sabueso2@usa.net), February 03, 2001.

John,
Your experience with the Lutherans is similar to mine. I know a few. They're good Christians, but the mass is no comparison to Catholic mass. Nevertheless, there is ''spiritual communion'', a way for Jesus to come into your heart if He sees the necessary faith. It must be painful to Him, though. Knowing such a rift was created between our churches by the personality of Martin Luther, whose own fervent Catholicism collapsed on account of it. Such is the damage that can come about from pride.

Mary Most Holy, Pray for your Lutheran children, and for us! Saint James, Pray for us! AMEN /

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), February 03, 2001.

But this great strain of man longing for fellowship, we've tried to bring people together through the ages. Many times educational programs has tried to unite people together by education. And standing in this auditorium tonight, of this lovely school, I certainly wouldn't speak against education, but education is not the appropriated way for fellowship. You can't educate people to love one another. You think you can, but it takes a Divine order to do that. There's no way to do it through education.

And many times that we tried it through denominations of churches denominating it. And each denomination builds up. The first one started was the Roman Catholic church about A.D. 600, and--or 300 rather, and it started the Roman Catholic church. They started a denomination and to make everybody in one denomination. It wouldn't work.

There come the Reformation, Martin Luther, then he brought all to Lutherans, tried to; it wouldn't work. Along come Wesley, he tried to make them all Methodists; it wouldn't work. Along come John Smith to make them all Baptists; it wouldn't work. Along come Alexander Campbell to make them all Campbellites, Christians; wouldn't work. Along come the others, the Presbyterians, and the--and down into the Pentecostals, and the Nazarenes, and Pilgrim Holiness, but it doesn't work.

If I said, "Lord, I was a Lutheran," and the other one said, "Well, I was a Catholic," well, there's your two protesting one another. Now, what's the poor man going to do? Or what if the Catholic church is right? Then all Lutherans are lost. Why if the Lutherans are right, all Catholics are lost.

See, you've got to have somewhere that faith can take its resting place. And to me--I don't know how you feel about it, but to me the Bible is the infallible Word of God. And I believe that God has watched over His Word that there's not one punctuation out of place.

-- William (prophet@email.com), February 10, 2001.

Indeed, William ... "there's not one punctuation out of place."
But each human being is "out of place" if he is not yet a Catholic.
What was that you said? Catholic Church "started ... about 600 A.D. and -- or 300 rather ..."
Or 30 rather? By Jesus rather?

God bless you.
John

-- J. F. Gecik (jgecik@desc.dla.mil), February 10, 2001.

Jesus did not run a Denominational System nor a member of it! He was the King of the Kingdom, in which I am apart of.

-- William (prophet@email.com), February 10, 2001.

You didn't answer his question, William-- The Church is whom Jesus Christ was addressing as He said, ''I am with you all days, even to the end of the world.'' The same Church that started at Pentecost, in the descent of the Holy Spirit upon the disciples and Mary, as ''tongues of flame''. It was already in existence and underground at the time Constantine was made a convert (into this Church) and quickly covered the known civilized world, becoming ''Universal'' by that fact-- and known thereafter as the Catholic Church. Still alive and kickin' Will! Third Millennium coming up. Still Holy, still Christian, still guardian of Holy Scripture, and able by Christ's authority to ''Bind and Loose on earth--'' which binds and looses in heaven as well. Has your church done much ''binding or loosing'' on earth in the meager 4-5 hundred years since it came to the world (in heresy) --? Answer John's question, Sir.

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), February 10, 2001.

The first church, that Christian church that was established, was established in Jerusalem on the day of Pentecost. Every theologian will have to agree with that. Every theologian takes their church back to that time; the Catholic church. And it's true, the Catholic church begin on the day of Pentecost; exactly right.

But on down about two hundreds years after, three hundred years later, they got away from that, and become come into an organization. And then they organized a great universal church, which "Catholic" means "universal." And from that they begin to have a apostolic succession, and bring up another man to take Peter's place, and popes. They begin to call them after bishops and on and on. And they actually begin at Pentecost. That was right. 'Cause all Christendom begin at Pentecost.

Now, the thing that I wonder, if all we believe that we begin back there, then why are not we doing as they did back there? Why haven't we got the blessing of God upon the church as they had then, let us be Catholic, or whatever we are? Then why haven't we got the same spirit, moving and doing the same works that they did back there? Is because we get all something another, and settle down on it, and make a doctrine out of it, and a period, and organize it, and let it go back like that. And then we say, "Here we are." God moves right off and leaves us. That's just what He did to Catholic, Lutheran, Presbyterian, Baptist, Methodists, and Pentecostals, and on and on. He's done the same thing. And He will continue to do it, when you draw a line and say, that "Well, we're going to group ourself together, and separate ourself from the rest of them." The Bible said they'd do that in the last days, seemingly not having the faith. And that's right. We want the faith that was once...

Mainly, in the beginning was all Jews. After the Jewish people evangelized, then it went into the Romans, and to the Greeks, and so forth, and started. But the reformation come in the--back in the early fifteen hundreds and there begin, the Christian church begin to organize Itself, or get itself together. And we're living in the last church age now, the Laodicean, according to Scripture.

I hope that answered John's question...

-- Willaim (prophet@email.com), February 10, 2001.

Jmj

Thank you, William. You answered my question at the beginning of your words, when you stated: "And it's true, the Catholic church begin on the day of Pentecost; exactly right."

Your added comments, though, were neither necessary, accurate, nor helpful. I won't reply to them all, but just the first couple.

You stated, "But on down about two hundreds years after, three hundred years later, they got away from that, and become come into an organization. And then they organized a great universal church, which 'Catholic' means "universal."
You are mistaken. The Church spread throughout the Mediterranean area, as far west as Spain and even as far east as India -- that part of the world that could be reached -- during the first century. And that is why we have a writing from a Christian martyr -- St. Ignatius, the bishop of Antioch (from around 108 A.D.) speaking of the "Catholic Church."

You went on, "And from that [i.e., 300 years after Jesus] they [the Catholics] begin to have a apostolic succession, and bring up another man to take Peter's place, and popes."

This is completely wrong. The holy scripture itself alludes to apostolic succession (Judas Iscariot to Matthias ... Paul to Timothy/Titus to successors, whom they would ordain), and we have ancient testimony (2d and 3d centuries) showing that apostolic succession continued. It did not "begin" 300 years after Jesus, when Rome legalized Christianity. Furthermore, the Catholic Church has the complete list of all popes, from Peter to his first-century successors (Linus, Cletus, Clement) and so on, in an unbroken chain.

St. James, pray for us. O Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to you.
God bless you.
John

-- J. F. Gecik (jgecik@desc.dla.mil), February 11, 2001.

My Dad's sister, a devote Lutheran, borrowed my old catechisim to compare with hers -- there was exactly ONE WORD difference between the two books main body (and the Impirator - please forgive spelling).

If I remember correctly it was in the discussion of confession and the Sacrament of Reconcillation, but it may have been the word "infallible" in the section on Papal authority. My memory is a bit grayed as this occurred about 1972.

-- Marilyn Johnson (MarilynLilBit@juno.com), April 07, 2001.