The Inaugurationgreenspun.com : LUSENET : like sands : One Thread
Did you watch the inauguration? What did you think? Was the right man sworn in? Will the truth about this election ever come to light?
-- Anonymous, January 22, 2001
Oh I can't help it - view from england - I can't stand Bush. How on earth can america elect someone from Texas when it's such a pollution ridden mess thanks to him? My girlfriend has relatives in Houston who apparently have taken to sleeping with a gun under the pillow because the crime rate is so high. This guy can't concentrate on anything for more than 15 minutes, is totally in the pocket of big business... and his supposed charisma... yuck.
you might guess I'm a bit to his left politically. But then who in europe isn't?
-- Anonymous, January 23, 2001
Apparently there was a Nostradamus prophecy stating that 'at the turn of the millenium, in the most powerful nation shall come to power a village idiot'... in any case the 2000 elections have made the US the laughing stock of the world.
-- Anonymous, January 23, 2001
I refused to watch the inauguration, in light of the fact that Bush was selected to be the president rather than elected by the people. The truth about the election will probably come out in twenty years, which would be far too late to help anybody now.
-- Anonymous, January 23, 2001
That Nostradamus thing is just an internet myth, Martes.
Any other Americans out there tired of hearing yet again how something has made us "the laughingstock of the world?"
I'm no fan of Bush, but I figure he's no worse than Ronald Reagan (about equally as stupid, and marginally less conservative). The Reagan years were a bleak time, but nothing really disastrous (like a nuclear war) happened. And I figure after 2 years of this crap, people will come back to their senses and put democratic majorities in Congress.
-- Anonymous, January 23, 2001
Actually Vena, because of Florida's sunshine laws, the ballots are open to public scrutiny and are being re-counted by a few news organizations. Probably will have results in the next month.
-- Anonymous, January 24, 2001
My take... (Independent / Libertarian) ...point of view...
* Election * Gore tried to keep playing the game over and over, (remember the US-Russia Olympic basketball game '84?) until he could get his cronies to "fix" things and "manufacture" votes. Please read Caro's great bio on LBJ.... how he won his first election.... how they came up with boxes of "new" votes every day for a week after the election... how people mysteriously voted in alphabetical order. Gore had this apparatus all set up in the event he lost.
From Charly Reece: << The Palm Beach County supervisor of elections, a Democrat, as required by law, tossed out 19,000 ballots that had been improperly marked. That's neither an injustice nor unprecedented. It is common. In every election, in every county, improperly marked ballots are tossed out. In the 1996 presidential election, Palm Beach tossed about 15,000 ballots. No one has been denied the right to vote. Voters had their chance. They were just too stupid or too careless to fill out the ballot correctly. The law places that responsibility on them. The law states that if the ballot is not properly marked, it cannot be counted. How could you count a ballot on which some numbskull has voted for two candidates for the same office? The hoax was perpetrated on two false facts. One false fact is that the ballot is confusing. Well, if it's confusing, how come more than a quarter-million people used it to cast their votes for the candidate of their choice? It had, as required by law, been pre-approved and pre-published. I've seen it. It's not confusing, except perhaps to a moron. The second false fact is the assertion that some 3,000 people must have voted for Pat Buchanan by mistake because he didn't get that many votes in any other county. First, there's no proof that anyone voted for Buchanan by mistake. Second, Palm Beach County, though liberal, has a pocket of about 14,000 hard-nosed conservatives registered in third parties. The Reform Party also had a candidate for the state Senate on the ballot, and she received 3,111 votes. If Reform Party people gave her 3,000 votes, what's so unusual about them casting 3,000 votes for Buchanan? >>
We've now learned that those "disputed" votes were properly thrown out by the machines because they had no selection on them for president... Bush actually picked up 6 votes.. media has given little notice of this - wonder if you would have heard of it if Gore got MORE votes? No, they want peoiple to remember next election that Gore was jobbed... when in reality, he wasn't.
* Electoral College * From columnist Charly Reece: "One reform that should be made is for the rest of the states to award their electoral votes on a proportional basis, based on which candidate wins in each congressional district.
Had that been the case (only two states do this) George W. Bush would have won by an electoral-vote landslide. The winner-take-all system favors candidates who can appeal to the masses in big cities. Bush, for example,won some of the upstate New York districts, but Al Gore's big margin in New York City tipped the state to his column.
This change would not require a constitutional amendment. It can be done by a legislative act. If the Republican Party were smart, it would adopt this as a national project with a very high priority. It seems to me that proportional awarding of electoral votes is the more democratic method.
* Bush * I agree that Bush "appears" less than intellectually sharp- witted, but a lot of great leaders are not the brightest. If that were true, all corporations, universities, militaries, athletic teams, voting contests, etc... would demand an intelligence test to sort out the contestants. Great leaders are more like good salesmen (for good or bad), who can get their underlings to perform at their best, and do it with great spirit. Also, in this day of Media- Madness, you have to look good on camera. Many good people just come off as buffoons on TV.... (Gore himself has been described this way by his closest suporters). If you think the camera tells the truth, just watch any good actor when he's doing his thing... they MAKE you believe something that is untrue (the role they're protraying). You shouldn't make hard judgements by a persons TV appeal any more than you should believe everything in print, just because it is on paper.... but's it's harder to be that discerning in our modern-slick- AD-dominated culture. Bush DID graduate from Harvard Business School ... give him SOME credit for persevering there. Gore flunked out of divinity school. Nobody criticizes Clinton intellectually, although he left Oxford (Rhoades program) without doing a thing after showing up for a cup of coffee. BTW, compare a hick from a backwater state like AK to the Oxford candidates from say, NY state, and Clinton would find himself in the bottom 10%... his competition was 2'nd rate. He is a GREAT salesman, though, and he's been using THAT talent all his life.
* Clinton * If you're someone who leans more left than right, consider this: Some of the most intellectually brilliant and logical writers from the LEFT, Christopher Hichens (a fellow Brit, John...and a Socialist at that), Nat Hentoff, and Anthony Lewis, all condemn and assail Clinton with MUCH HARSHER words than ANY from the right. Lewis: "Bill Clinton has the worst civil liberties record of any president in at least 60 years." This opinion piece says it all better than any I've seen: http://www.cato.org//dailys/01-19- 01.html It's a 1-19-01 piece by David Boaz. Clinton had 8 years....what did he do?.... passed NAFTA, which was backed by the republicans. He then demigoged Newt's "contract with America"... saying the House would never even bring one of those items for a vote... Newt not only brought all 10 for a vote, they passed 8 of them, and Clinton SIGNED 7 of them. He then took credit for that by using it to help win his '96 election.... no shame (we know that now, eh Monica?) What did Clinton NOT DO in those 8 years? .... he didn't reform the death spiral of the Ponzi-scheme social security program, nor mend the Medicare system, which is full of corruption and cost over-charges. Why not? because the democrats need that "issue" to scare the more uninformed voters to vote for the democrats. As long as they delay fixing it, they can blame the other side.
Clinton is the high-school prom-king.... the class president...a guy who wants adulation and "thank you's" for his psycholgically crippled psyche ... a guy who wants to be a celebrity, during the "age" of celebrity...a guy who 'sez he cares' is more important than what he actually does...8 years wasted.... no leadership... government by daily polls...and behind the curtains: dirty-money bought influence..."new boss, same as the old boss".
PS: I voted for NONE of the people above...
-- Anonymous, January 24, 2001
Well, if Gore tried to fix the election in Florida, he did a pretty lame job of it. The recounts in his hand-picked counties only garnered him a fraction of the votes he would have needed to win. I haven't seen any convincing evidence of electoral misconduct from either candidate's official camp, but if you're fond of conspiracy theories, Bush would seem a far more likely target. After all, not is he infinitely better connected to the FL power structure than Gore, he also won.
As far as I can see, it seems that the FL election was well within that system's margin of error. Even though a recount is going on, it won't resolve the technical issues surrounding the punch-card ballot system, nor will it address the issue of the potentially confusing (and illegal) Palm Beach Ballot, nor the accusations by some African Americans that they were illegally prevented from voting by police officers and pollworkers.
The proposal about splitting Electoral College votes within states got a lot of press directly following the election--Hillary Clinton was one of the first to speak out on the issue. However, this would negate the very purpose for the Electoral system in the first place, which was to give greater power to small states. Electoral College votes are based on the number of Congressional Reps. a state has, and small states are given a disproportionately large number of Representatives relative to their populations. Splitting the votes wouldn't violate the word of the Constitution, but it would seem to violate the spirit by diminishing small states' power--the very opposite of what you seek to do, Jack. Furthermore, by dividing up votes by congressional district, you would create even greater voter inequality, with voters from small districts in large states having the greatest power.
Incidentally, the two states which allow for an electoral split have never actually had a vote which resulted in one.
Jack, I am curious as to where you got your information about what the election result would have been if states had been allowed to split their votes. Given the similar number of closely-contested states going to both Bush and Gore, it seems unlikely to me that it would have changed the election results as dramatically as you say. Not that it matters, anyway--the candidates didn't campaign with the expectation that the votes would be counted in such a way, so it has no bearing on how an actual election conducted in that matter would turn out.
By the way, Gore didn't flunk out of Divinity School, he dropped out to run for Congress. He did fail some classes, but they were mostly incompletes which were never made up and thus turned to Fs. As a graduate student myself, I can assure you that it is nigh impossible to unintentionally flunk out of grad school. The right-wing press has run this story over and over again despite the fact that the Vanderbilt Divinity School administration and faculty have always said that Gore dropped out and didn't flunk out.
-- Anonymous, January 24, 2001
I agree, Gore did a pretty lame job during the post-election FL mess. Their main tactical mistake was not demanding a statewide hand- recount of ALL the votes. That would have kept them out of all that endless weasal-dealing in the courts. But it is exactly that mindset that showed that they only wanted more Gore votes, NOT A THOROUGH RECOUNT. Don't be deceived... there was a plan of attack already in place before the sun came up. Democratic leaders hired TeleQuest, a marketing firm before 6 PM on election day. An hour before the polls closed, 5,000 calls were made. It was spun by the media, at the time, as a completely spontaneous thing. It was totally orchestrated. And even if a few people screwed up their vote (as always happens), the result of this was that EVERY freakin democrat in FL now believes he was personally robbed. Off the wire: Their behavior was no aberration but in fact was the extension of the carefully plotted Democratic recount strategy. It is no accident that Democrats always seem to win contested elections, such as Sen. Mary Landrieu's notorious Louisiana victory of 1996. They have the blueprint and the experts, and they were mobilized for Gore even before anybody knew the 2000 election would be a dead heat. "The Gore campaign didn't just send people to Florida fast," Ryan Lizza writes in an excellent article in the Nov. 27 New Republic. "It sent the party's top recount experts." That included recount ace Chris Sautter, who was one of many experts on call election night. Lizza reports that Sautter spent election night ready in Washington. He received the call at 4 a.m. Wednesday and was told to take the 7:30 a.m. flight to Tallahassee. This crafty operative has been hard at work in Florida ever since, training party workers and seeking voter complaints. Vice President Gore has signaled he will do whatever it takes to achieve office, contesting administrative and court decisions.
The Los Angeles Times reported that Gore flooded Florida with seasoned Democratic operatives to rustle up votes for Gore, with a Democratic lawyer reminding them that "we only need 301 votes to win this." The lawyer said, "Our goal is to preserve the Al Gore vote. It's very, very important that if you see any kind of mark -- a scratch, a dent, a pinprick in Al Gore's column -- that you challenge." When asked how they should treat such marks on Bush ballots, the lawyer said, "Keep your lips sealed." Eyewitnesses have reported that in one case, six Bush ballots were placed in the Gore stack to be counted for Gore and that in several instances, chads were taped to Bush "holes" and then Gore's holes were punched. The dispatching of Dole, Engler and a squad of other Republican governors to south Florida illuminated the vote-counting procedures in Broward and Palm Beach counties. As a totem of the GOP and the party's 1996 presidential candidate, Dole can always attract national attention, and he did so when he said he saw "votes being cast, not counted." Engler told me the same thing -- with elaboration. In Broward, he said, "not one disputed ballot did I see that could be counted in Michigan. Not one. You really have to see it to believe it." The surreal quality for Engler stemmed from Suzanne Gunzburger, the fervent Democrat on the three-member Broward canvassing board; she gave Gore each and every questionable ballot. The result was 583 votes picked in the county, eating up more than half of Bush's statewide lead.
Would I call that a conspiracy? NO...but there was a contingency plan afoot... it helped the dem's capture the highground of the media spotlight.... those calls of fraud were initiated by dem party leaders to get the media-high-ground... there were 100 lawyers headed to FL that very morning... these things were not accidents. Because of the intense media coverage, it became difficult for the dem's to get away with outright fraud (like LBJ did). But there were a few instances I remember where 2 of the dem's looking at the ballots declared a "Gore" vote, and the republican disagreed vehemantly... getting himself physically removed from the building. You have to admit, that is an unfair way to recount.... where one side can over- ride the others. How would you feel if those districts were all run by republican majorities? I am not at all fond of conspiracy theories ( one of my pet peeves is the huge majority of people who believe the Kennedy assassination theories... Gerald Pozner wrote an incredibly detailed and well researched & documented book that debunks 'em all... a tribute for logic, investigation, and reporting. He used cutting edge computer enhancement of the Zapruder film, talked to Oswald's Russian overseers, and other overlooked evidence. He is brilliant... there are NO holes... unless one believes Jackie conspired with alien beings... in which case, you're on your own) ...but Bush was NOT closer to the "power structure" that mattered most... that was: the democratically controlled precincts with democrat majorities to guardian "votes". How ironic that a Daly is brought in to oversee it all. Unfortunately, I don't see many people changing their minds about any of this. The die was cast when those first calls of "cheat, cheat" were ginned up, and repeated ad nauseum.
As for fraud and voter irregularities... here's some of the stuff I've read on that issue:
At least 445 Florida felons voted illegally on Nov. 7, casting another cloud over a disputed presidential election already mired in legal challenges, a Herald investigation has found. The tainted votes -- found in a review of nearly half a million votes cast in 12 Florida counties -- provide evidence that the presidential race was influenced by thousands of ineligible voters. The majority of the illegal votes -- 330 -- were cast in Palm Beach and Duval counties, which decided not to participate in the statewide effort this year to purge felons, dead people and double registrants from the rolls. The Herald found 62 robbers, 56 drug dealers, 45 killers, 16 rapists and seven kidnappers who cast ballots. At least two who voted are pictured on the state's online registry of sexual offenders. ``There are a ton of us out there,'' said William Herman, 37, of Lake Worth, sentenced to five years in prison in 1989 for negligent homicide with a motor vehicle. ``It shouldn't be that way, but when they give you a voter registration card, hey, what are you supposed to do? Clarence Eden Williams, 77, of Pahokee, also voted. His picture is posted on the state registry of sexual offenders for his crimes against children. His son was surprised his father cast a ballot. ``He's got Alzheimer's, and he can't even carry on a conversation anymore,'' said Clarence Williams III.
A dead man's ballot was cast in Riviera Beach on Nov. 7. Herbert J. Moon, a retired hospital cook, died at age 95 on Oct. 4, 1999. On Nov. 7, someone cast a ballot in his name at Palm Beach County precinct 67 in the Dan Calloway recreation center. The vote is yet another indication that Florida's system for protecting the integrity of balloting is far from foolproof. On Sunday, The Herald reported that at least 144 illegal votes had been cast in Miami-Dade County. These included ballots cast by unregistered voters, people who don't live in Florida and someone masquerading as a Little Haiti man who died three years ago. André Alismé died of cancer in 1997. Yet a vote in his name was cast in last month's presidential election, one of more than 100 illegal ballots uncovered by The Herald in Miami-Dade County. Violating rules meant to safeguard the integrity of balloting, Miami- Dade poll workers allowed scores of unregistered voters -- including out-of-state residents -- to vote on Nov. 7. They cast ballots at polling places where they were not listed on voter rolls. All they had to do was sign sworn statements that they were eligible to vote. They were not. Nobody at the polls checked, as required by county regulations and state law -- which meant that those illegal ballots counted in one of the closest presidential races in history. All of those voters would have been caught before casting ballots had poll workers followed a simple procedure -- making a phone call to elections headquarters to check whether each voter was indeed eligible to vote. The Herald examined ballots cast at just 138 of Miami-Dade's 617 precincts, finding that 144 ineligible voters had been allowed to sign in at polls where they were not registered. If that trend holds true in the rest of Dade, hundreds more illegal ballots may have been cast. ``I told them I was not registered,'' said Wiseman, a Democrat who said he voted for Al Gore. ``They looked around at each other and asked the precinct deputy for advice and they let me vote.'' Ninety-year-old Cora Thigpen voted twice in the presidential election -- and would have liked to have voted more. ``If I had voted a half dozen times, I would have voted every time for Al Gore,'' the North Florida resident said. Some were so poorly trained that they didn't know the verification requirements. They said they let people vote -- some without any identification -- based on gut feelings that voters were honest. Other poll workers, feeling pressured by long lines and short tempers, said they ignored the rules or bent them just to avoid ugly confrontations.``This just goes to show that the most expensive voting equipment in the world is worthless when the voting rolls are that filthy,'' said Deborah Phillips, president of the nonprofit Voting Integrity Project in Arlington, Va. ``It's just an invitation to lower the integrity of the election.''
There was an investigation (not the federal one to come) into those black voter allegations. Some of the proceedings were on CSPAN. Not one instance of proven illegality.... these were people who had been reved up by the media (see above) to think they were being shit on, and who were pissed as hell. There was one lady who claimed they were stopping cars with blacks in them and preventing them from voting. It turns out that it was the police doing their regularly scheduled MV checks (all documented... a routine part of their job)...and it was 2 miles!!! from the voting site.... it showed a normal breakdown for white/black pullovers, no one was detained (probably just pissed off)... in other words, it was a specious charge. People watching TV hear that allegation and believe it... they never hear the whole- follow-up story. You didn't hear the follow-up story, did you? But it would have been on the front page if it were true. Already predisposed to think they're getting shafted, it was part of the Gore braintrust's plan to keep this stuff (rumors of fraud) on the news... until they could "get" some more votes. There were places where blacks were turned away because the polling lists were screwed up. They were screwed up by democrats, who controlled the official lists, not republicans. I don't understand myself how it is illegal in Calif to "ask" for identification (is this true?)....where they had someone register 2-dozen dogs to vote via absentee (60 Mins story), but ID must be shown in other states. Even here in CT, different polling places do things differently. I agree the system is full of holes... most of the people in charge are border-line senile, for heavens sake. And I don't think things are going to radically change; although congress will throw a lot of money at this problem. I can just imagine the next election, 100% cyber-incrypted, supervised by Bill gates himself.... and Bill walks over and pushes the "Big Button" on election night...candidate A: 42,663,827...candidate B: 000,000,000 ...Ooops!!!! Duh, what happened Bill?
On the Electoral College .... I only pasted in that quote by Charly Reece (Orlando Sentinel)... so as to placate those who feel Gore should have won if they used another standard (not the big bad electoral college) The fact is this: There is NO WAY there will EVER be an ammendment passed, because of the number of smaller states that would oppose it...impossible. The only compromise alternative would be to have state legislatures divy up their votes a la ME & NE. It would be closer to a strict popular vote. I only raise the issue because so many dem's raised the popular vote issue. I don't know if Charly was talking about the national electoral vote, or the FLA electoral vote, when he says Bush would get a landslde... I would suspect he's talking about FL, since Bush got majorities in most precincts. If states want to change how their electoral votes are used, that's fine with me. Hillary brought the electoral college up knowing full well the states will never ratify it... but did she say she would try to change NY STATE'S way of allocating their electoral votes? No! It was purely poltical pandering. (heck...why not pander, she's a REAL politician now)
-----------------------Here's the latest post-election RE-RE-RE- recount info:---------------------- Published Sunday, January 14, 2001, in the Miami Herald Dade ballot review finds gain of 6 votes for Bush
George W. Bush would have gained six more votes if all the dimples and hanging chads on 10,600 previously uncounted ballots in Miami- Dade County had been included in the totals, according to a review by The Palm Beach Post.The Herald and its parent company, Knight Ridder, are conducting their own ballot inspection in Miami-Dade as part of a comprehensive review in all 67 Florida counties. Before Vice President Al Gore conceded last month, his camp had expected to pick up as many as 600 votes from a Miami-Dade recount. The Post review showed 251 additional votes for Bush and 245 more for Gore.The review, concluded last week, also showed the vast majority of ballots rejected as undervotes -- ballots where no vote for president was recorded when counted by machine -- appeared, in fact, to cast no vote for president. About 7,600 undervotes had no mark at all on the presidential column or, in rare cases, included multiple votes. Most of the voters who did not indicate a vote for president did punch choices in other races.Of these miscast votes, 302 more would have gone for Gore than Bush, The Post review found. Even if those votes had been cast correctly, however, it would not have changed the outcome of a presidential election that turned on 537 votes for Bush in Florida.Two Post reporters, each paired with an elections staffer, reviewed ballots. The Post's categories included clean votes; chads with three, two and one corner detached; dimpled or pregnant chads through which light could be seen; and dimples where no light could be seen.The Herald has retained accounting firm BDO Seidman to record the characteristics in each undervote ballot's presidential vote column.
Saturday, January 20, 2001 By ALAN SCHER ZAGIER Al Gore's unsuccessful effort to convince the courts to allow hand recounts following the presidential election focused on Democratic strongholds such as Palm Beach and Broward counties.Notably absent from that appeal was Republican-heavy Collier County. And with good reason, it turns out.A Daily News review of nearly 2,100 uncounted presidential ballots in Collier shows that George W. Bush — who today will be sworn in as president — could have increased his local victory over Gore by 226 votes if a hand recount was undertaken. That's nearly half of Bush's winning margin in the entire state.Assuming that all dimples, pin pricks, chads and other obvious ballot markings would have counted — a subjective standard — Bush gained another 770 votes in Collier County. Gore would have gained an additional 544 votes. Three days of Collier County hand recounts produced the same result for George W. Bush — a defeat of Al Gore, just as in the Nov. 7 election. A Naples Daily News tally found that Bush collected 226 more additional votes than Gore, assuming a standard that counted dimples, chads and pin pricks as valid votes. In addition to the Daily News, other newspapers, the local Republican Party and a government watchdog group examined the more than 2,000 contested ballots. The numbers: Total number of undervotes: 2,080 Bush votes: 770 Gore votes: 544 No vote cast: 613 Misaligned votes (Spaces punched for no listed candidate): 106 Other candidates' votes: 31 Overvotes (more than one candidate): 16 ------------------------- There's another troubling issue I haven't found answers to: some of the 2-3 million absentee votes (scattered across the country)that were NEVER counted (because in most precincts, they have no effect) Absentee votes tradtionally go 55-45 republican. I cannot find accurate info on this. As far as the FLA absentee vote went, wasn't it hypocritical for Gore lawyers to use every hook & crook to get every absentee vote thrown out... the same lawyers who express their concern for "counting every vote". BTW, how about Clinton secretly signing an executive order to prohibit polling places on oversea's military bases. In THIS country, he wants to make it as easy to vote as possible...to get every uninformed punk, and illegal alien to vote.... yet the kids who put their lives on the line at his leisure are treated as "not worthy". Political maneuvering at it's most crass and disgusting.
Finally... Boy, you're really parsing words in regard to Gore "flunking" out. I admit I didn't really want to say that, but with the Bush-dumb jokes by Leno, SNL, and Mad-TV, it seemed appropo. My take is this: If a coach, who is losing a ball game late, pulls his team off the field and forfeits.... did they lose? technically no, I guess...but you're treading Clinton-speak, lawyer-weasal-words here... If I know I'm going to be fired, I'll most likely quit first. The underlying facts are the same in all those examples: The JIG IS UP.... you've blown it. I certainly don't feel Gore is stupid; he admits (or maybe it was his room-mate), he was smoking too much weed at the time, and probably didn't care a lot about divinity anyway.... but if he didn't leave, he would have eventually "flunked out" in my view of the world....( maybe not in the world of special rules and previleges)...but, if I was getting incompletes and F's, I would be forced to leave or face expulsion... at some point! I know you like Gore, Jen, and I admire people who defend people they like or repect, but I really think Gore is as crooked and slimy a character (wrong word there) as you'll find in the politcal fish-tank, and I hope you put his ilk behind you. There are lots (well, maybe not lots...) of good democrats and republicans worth standing up for... you're MUCH more deserving than that.
-- Anonymous, January 26, 2001
Jack, I think you're missing my point, which is that all the investigation and recounting in the world will never tell us what truly happened in this election, and as a result, the election should be considered to have fallen within the margin of error of the system. I do not accept the allegations of those who say they were wrongly prevented from voting as fact, but I do think it's within the realm of possibility that people truly were wronged. Nor am I denying that there were machinations by both parties surrounding the election, and it also seems possible that some of those may have affected the outcome of the vote. However, I doubt that there will ever be a definitive illumination of the situation one way or another.
I don't know where you're getting the idea that I'm defending Gore because I "like" him. Based on the evidence I have seen, there is no indication that Gore flunked out of Divinity School, and plenty of evidence (including Gore's own word and those of several of his professors as reported in both the New York Times and in the Gore biography written by Newsweek reporter Bill Turque) that he never actually intended to get a Divinity School degree.
Furthermore, I think you are very mistaken if you think that Bush's intelligence is being judged unfairly based on his academic record. Rather, I think the perception arises from his frequent misuse of words and his lack of skill in answering simple questions. I have no idea if Gore is "smart" or not, but I do think he's a good public speaker.
-- Anonymous, January 26, 2001
I used the word "like" because you stated you voted for him... so you "like" him more than the others...I guess. Sorry. I still don't see how Gore gets a pass with that divinity school record... he left before they asked him to leave. If colleges didn't get money in return for being a student, they'd kick more students out sooner. I agree Bush comes off poorly before the camera. I've seen other things that tell me he's not a COMPLETE dunce. I disagree Gore is a good speaker... he's stiff and twitches unnaturally...drives me nuts. The fact is, both those guys are more alike in so many ways it's scary. BTW- 2 pasted-in news wire stories above were left out.... did I unknowingly include some obscure Perl command in there or something?
-- Anonymous, January 26, 2001
Jack, I fixed your post. This board uses html tags, and when you set your quotes off with those bracket things it thought everything in between them was a great big tag. I suggest that in the future you either italicize quotes, or better yet, paraphrase and link to the original stories to avoid browser-clogging blocks of text that nobody will bother to read.
he left before they asked him to leave.
That's not what the dean of Vanderbilt Divinity School said. It's not what his professors said. In fact, nobody in any way associated with the school has made this claim. If you choose to believe that Gore was kicked out, that's fine with me, but I do have a problem with you presenting your opinion as fact.
-- Anonymous, January 27, 2001
as I look at it, I made the right choice in voting for Gore.
For all I know, Gore might of done nothing particularly great -- but he wouldn't be appointing someone like Ashcroft as Attorney General, promoting vouchers, signing some "partial birth" abortion bill that will probably do exactly what Clinton feared (endangering women's health or Roe V Wade with its imprecise language). The NRA doesn't speak for me, nor do I cherish the Second Amendment -- but I'm expecting Bush to do little to nothing in that area as well. (and they (NRA) contributed a lot of money to ensure his companionship)
Oh, I have liberal issues at heart -- hopefully that Bush is repudiated on many of the most conservative issues and forced to the center.
Tax plans and such are a soft issue for me. I don't think those are the heart of liberal concerns compared to some other things.
And I voted against this man 3 times now -- twice as gov.
-- Anonymous, January 27, 2001
George W. Bush won the election fair in square. He was the better candidate and will restore honor to the Presidency and give us a much needed tax cut.
-- Anonymous, March 19, 2001