Given in today's NOTW

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No. I didn't buy it but if one is left on the seat next to me, I;m gonna read it, all right? Anyway, he is reported in an "exclusive" as begiing Bobby to let him out of his misery. He says he wants to play for the Toon because we are the best suppporters anywhere but he wants to be an international and he thinks he is the club's No1 goalie.

-- Anonymous, January 14, 2001

Answers

Here's a possible take on the Given situation.
Seamus gets a dead leg in the Leeds game (or was it Derby? Whatever). He doesn't want to drop out of the team as he's been playing well, doesn't want to let Harper back in, and played a few games earlier with a thigh strain anyway. So, he tells BR he's happy to play on. Bobby doesn't want to take a chance, given an already crippling injury list, and fancies giving Harper a game now that the Worthy Cup isn't available in which to play him.
So, Bobby says " sorry Shay, I'm not taking risk with you: I'm playing Steve."

Harper comes in and plays well. "Sh*t" says Bobby "now I've got a problem!" Bobby can't drop Harper after he's played well, so he tells them Harper is going to play the next game - in which he plays well again.

Given has worked his goolies off to establish himself as first choice, his form has been excellent, he has played through several games with a thigh strain, and is then left, out against his wishes, with a similar knock. His mate gets back in, and plays so well he can't be dropped. Poor old Seamus is back to square one, and royally brassed off, thinking "this is so bloody unfair, and the Boss hasn't got the decency to talk to me about it." Bobby is thinking "what the hell can I say to Shay, I just can't drop Steve when he's played so well? End result - Given decides he can't take it any more sitting on the bench at his age, and decides the only way out is to try his luck somewhere else.

Plausible? Understandable?

-- Anonymous, January 14, 2001


Obviously, Clarky, but going to the NOTW and begging to be put out of your misery? Hmm. By the way, I love Bobby but this appears to be a bit of shocking management.

-- Anonymous, January 14, 2001

I don't think Bobby is wrong on this one. he has to play the best. When Given was injured Steve was the best option. He is playing well so why drop him.. Given said he "had no option but to put in a transfer request" Bobby's response was "of course he had an option, he could honour his contract and fight for his place, that is an option". Personally I didn't see too much difference between the two goalies, until last week, when it became obvious one of them puts himself before the team, club and fans. Perhaps his agent is to blame who knows, but let's not blame Bobby Robson for putting out the best he had at the time and doing his job.

-- Anonymous, January 14, 2001

>>>>>I didn't buy it but if one is left on the seat next to me, I;m gonna read it, all right?

I only saw the front page headline of the NotW at my newsagent. Something about Botham and sectional shenanigans. The more you see that paper the more it seems that the entire country is having sex. Shocking. It really ought to be stopped.



-- Anonymous, January 14, 2001

But Pete iC, the point I was trying to make was what if Given wasn't seriously injured and felt he was fit to continue playing, but Bobby decided to play Harper anyway?
I'm convinced this is what happened , and if so, I would be rather more sympathetic to Shay's position. He's worked really hard to establish himself as No.1 here.

-- Anonymous, January 14, 2001


I agree clarky, but if the "in" keeper is playing well, why change him. If young Ameobi had scored a couple of goals a game and was really looking sharp would you immediately drop him if/when Cort/A.S. were fit. You have to look at what's best for the team, and right now, slapping in a transfer request is an extremely selfish move and certainly not in the best interests of the team. In a word, it's Blackmail, and YBR will not tolerate it. I cannot disagree with him.

-- Anonymous, January 14, 2001

I sympathize with Given in that he has being excellent all season and lost his place through a minor injury. I think the club shud decide who is the number one goalie and stick with him unless off form- surely rotating the goalie is a bad idea especially considering the need to have good communication with the defenders.

Handing in a transfer request is of course a very bad way to show his annoyance at this, unless(which is possible) he genuinely wants to leave as hes unhappy with the set up. I think, no matter what he was quoted as saying, at the time(and perhaps still) he sees this sharing of the goal with Harper as something that will keep happening and he cant accept this. He probably didnt speak to YBR at the time as hes already been told this is the way it will be.

So hes handed in his request as he dosent want his career to be like this. Either YBR makes him the number 1 goalkeeper which i reckon he deserves to be or he leaves the club. Fair enough me thinks. Not QUITE blackmail- hes concerned about his career and knows in the vast majority of other clubs, goalies arnt swapped around without a good reason.

Theres also little guarantee he spoke a word to NOTW - the quotes look a summarized version of what was previously said.

Waffle over :-)

-- Anonymous, January 14, 2001


I dunno, if he had been a French lad instead of an Irish lad, I'm sure the chorus of "get rid of the fcuker" would have been all over this board. Point I am making is he has a contract which I am sure does NOT guarantee him the first team spot. He lost his place through injury, albeit a minor one. His replacement has played well and therefore deserves a run in the team. There should be no complaints. I didn't see Harper throw in a transfer request when he lost his place. It's a team sport, a squad game, and wanting to leave because you are dropped or not picked is in my mind not only selfish, but childish. Having said that, I really rate Given. I do think he is our number one keeper and I hope he doesn't leave. I hope he and YBR can patch this up and get on with the game.

-- Anonymous, January 14, 2001

According to the ever-reliable Alan Oliver, Shay used to answer hsi calls etc but recently changed his mobile number and directed callers to his agent. Which suggests that something has been afoot for a while.

-- Anonymous, January 15, 2001

From that ever so reliable NTLSPORTS.COM

Shay Given's father Shamus has gone on record saying that his son had been told that as long as he was fit he would be the number one choice goalkeeper at Newcastle. According to Seamus Given, his son received such a verbal assurance from manager Bobby Robson when he signed a new four-year deal to remain at St James' Park last September. "As far as we're concerned your word is your bond and when Bobby Robson gave him that promise it was up to him to honour it," he says. "There were seven people present in the chief executive's office when the deal was made and they all witnessed it. Without it, there's no way Shay would have agreed to a new contract." Seamus Given dismisses the suggestion that his son acted rashly or was being selfish. "Shay was fit for the Man United game at the end of December but he was happy enough to take an extra game's rest. But after that there was no reason why he shouldn't have been brought back in. We feel that Robson owed him an explanation for not being picked but he hasn't given one." Seamus has always harboured a belief in his son's ability . There is a story told about the time he marched into St Columba's College in Lifford, Co Donegal, and told the teachers that his son was only to be played in goal as that was the position in which he would be forging a professional career. Another holds that when Frank Stapleton offered Given his first deal at Bradford, Seamus declined saying his son was saving himself for Manchester United or Celtic. Such inflated belief can often be a virtue in goalkeepers but, with Given, it suggests a bravado that does not quite tally with his achievements to date. At Blackburn he was unable to displace Tim Flowers, a brief interlude at Sunderland suggested prodigious talent but, well into his third year at St James' Park, Given has yet to firmly cement his position as Robson's first-choice keeper and has not even been on the bench for Ireland's World Cup qualifiers. How much of that can he lay at Robson's door? Meanwhile contrary to reports, Newcastle United have not turned down Shay Given's transfer request. A club spokesman today said: "The board and management have not yet had the chance to sit down and discuss the matter."

-- Anonymous, January 15, 2001



IF what his father says is true then Robson owes him an explanation.

-- Anonymous, January 15, 2001

Whatever made Bobby Robson think that Given wouldn't need such assurances????

Robson said: "I left Andy out against Coventry so he'd be fresh as a daisy for what promises to be another difficult game at Villa Park.

"I didn't want to play him at the weekend and he knows why. We're trying to look forward to the next two games and Andy will have a big part to play in those fixtures.

"He will be refreshed and ready to take on David Ginola and whoever Leeds United throw at him.

''I spoke to him for half an hour on Friday and he's fine about the situation. He knows the story and he's a sensible lad."

-- Anonymous, January 15, 2001


>>>>>>According to Seamus Given, his son received such a verbal assurance from manager Bobby Robson when he signed a new four- year deal to remain at St James' Park last September. ... Without it, there's no way Shay would have agreed to a new contract.

Either this is utter balderdash or the Given family are extremely stupid. A verbal assurance? And this was essential otherwise he would not have signed a four year contract???? Pur-leez. If this part of the negotiation was so all-important why wasn't it in the bleeding contract then? Hasn't he got an agent to look after these matters?

How can any player be regarded as Number 1 four years in advance? What if his form dropped disastrously? We all know, when it comes to written contracts, a verbal assurance is not worth the paper it's written on.

-- Anonymous, January 15, 2001

I would disagree Jonno.

When Bobby Robson, a man of reputed integrity, gives you a verbal assurance and you being a trustworthy bloke, take his word, you expect him to honour his word, whether it is in the contract or not.

Of course his dad could be spouting rubbish but it's a pretty rash claim to make without any back up.

-- Anonymous, January 15, 2001


You can still be the Number 1 Keeper and be on the bench.

Hadman is Covs No.1 keeper and if it werent for an injury he wouldnt have started on Sat.

Given probably is the No.1 but Harper hasnt put a foot or a hand wrong, even for that corner.

-- Anonymous, January 15, 2001



who do you/are more likely to believe?

1/ Bobby Robson in the papers

2/ Someone's dad in the papers.

end of [non] story.

-- Anonymous, January 15, 2001


I can sympathize with Shay's position, but the fact is, it's been Bobby's policy since he came to the club wrt Given/Harper is that whichever one is playing, does so until injured. The other one comes in and stays in until injury puts him out again. Or loss of form, I'm sure, but neither one of them has had a bad dip of form when they are in. As Jonno pointed out, if assurance of being #1 was so important, it should have been gotten in writing. I'm sure Bobby is one of the most honest men around, but the fact is verbal agreements aren't worth the paper they're printed on(!) at the end of the day. No matter how honest and upstanding the person giving it.

The little revelation about Given's agent now insisting all calls for interviews go through him makes me think this situation is more the influence of his agent, rather than Given spitting his dummy. I'd love Given to stay, but if he can find a club to 'guarantee' first team football, then he should go. It would help his international career. Otherwise just knuckle down, as Harper has done for years, and be ready when your chance comes.

-- Anonymous, January 15, 2001


Sell Given for 5 Million if hes not happy , then go and Buy dodgy keeper clark from Bradford. (just dont let him kick the ball)

-- Anonymous, January 15, 2001

How's about:

Given to agent: "You got me into this shit, you answer the bloody phonecalls!"

Mind you, I wouldn't base any agreements on the hope that Bobby would remember the conversation in question, isn't that right, Kevin?

-- Anonymous, January 15, 2001


Whoever said what - this situation is a bloody farce, and does us no good whatsoever.

For the record, I don't personally believe for one second that Given would ask for a transfer just for not getting straight back into the team after injury.
Something is not right and it's a real shame.

-- Anonymous, January 15, 2001


Well if nobody agrees with me I'm going to FO to a different Bulletin Board. I had Softie's verbal assurance that he'd agree with me on the BBS and that assurance was harpered given in front of half the people in The Strawberry. There is no way I'd have agreed to come on this BBS without that assurance.

Unless someone gives me one of those new Virgin Mobiles I'm not playing.



-- Anonymous, January 15, 2001

The only sign of real aggression that I have seen in YBR with regard to people and players is his attitude to agents. Its clear from the recent interview, nicely translated from Dutch and posted here for us, that there are some agents that he sees as not good for the game and who get in the way with the way YBR wants to run the team. One way to explain the apparent difference between YBR's treatment of Griffin, with reagard to Quinn playing against Coventry, and supposed non-communication with Given, is that too many people were stirring the pot for Given, i.e., father plus agent. It seems likely that Mr Robson just won't have that sort of stuff. I think he is absolutely right. Mr Robson is clearly a man with a well defined work and loyalty ethic who is sometimes exasperated with present conditions in professional football. Again, his comments in the interview showed he was exsperated with Domi simply not wanting to play. I think the message he wants to give, and without 'effing and blinding' is: Consider what is right for the team. If you don't do that automatically then I am going to do it and show you what needs to be done. Given has stepped over that line. That means he moves into a "treatment room". Running a football team is different from running a kindergarten where everyone is expected to go home having had their nose wiped by the teacher.

-- Anonymous, January 16, 2001

Good point Sounder. There's a passage in his autpobiography that goes on about when he first arrived at Ipswich in the 70s and one or two players were making life difficult, disrupting the team, unsettling players and throwing their weight around. Players who were first teamers and regarded as 'mainstays' etc. He squared up to them at one point and thought that he was finished. the rest of the team backed him and he said that the lesson he learnt was that the team comes first and if there are agitators in the dressing room who divide the team spirit, you have to get rid of them as soon as possible. I think he's found a similar situation here but with the increased player power, he's having a harder time getting shot. This is compounded by the uncertainty over transfer fees.

-- Anonymous, January 16, 2001

"Running a football team is different from running a kindergarten where everyone is expected to go home having had their nose wiped by the teacher".

Actually, Sounder I think it's remarkably similar. Many pro footy players are spoilt brats who have never grown up, and need to treat like bairns - including having their arses smacked now and then.

-- Anonymous, January 16, 2001


I'll have the croolty man on you Mr. Clark if there's any more of that kind of talk.

Arses smacked, indeed. :-))

-- Anonymous, January 16, 2001


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