Macbeth asked for discussion on another thread (are we missing >>) Shearer , the tactics used, I did start to reply, became more furious as I typed, hit the wrong key and obliterated the whole piece , thank God I hear you mutter, cannot be done with Buff`s rantings. This is not due to the benifit of hindsight after Sunday`s game, all I write I have said before in regards to our team this season and last. I have read the reserve report , the three wise men were in attendance, Robson, Milne , Wadsworth and therein to my mind lies the problem, bags of experience granted , stubborn aul critters, pse add old cos its important!!, are they adept to the changing face of the game, do they realise they cannot afford to adopt a insular outlook, Internet, Tv the fans know their stuff , the game is changing,tactics change, (Euro 2000), its all changing, can the three cope with the wind of change. Do you know that on here Dagleish (ok Jonno!) has got more stick than Robson since last Sunday, that is frightening, are you afraid to criticise Robson, preferring instead this uncle beyond reproach image.!!

Gene at least was honest, he will pick Lee and Speed no matter, what, how many on here finish there posting with the words "YBR knows best", leave it to him, I do not subscribe to that patter, thats why I am here, on this forum, cos I repect the opinions of the majority of punters, male and female, local and exile alike. Mentioned before we are to soft and easy led , easily impressed >>

Newcastle are the only team I know that goes from a flat back 4 to a flat back 3 , Barton if you are playing left back please refer to Denis Irwin who spent a decade checking back onto his right foot to find when his position was up for grabs he discovered he could use his left and not stop the natural flow of the game. Bassedas not surely to instructions squeezed all and sundry to the right which was ideal for Steve Stone to gallop up the right hand side unmolested A sunday morning player could have rolled the ball across the half way line to the opposite side and Stone would have picked it up each time, why do I get the feeling that the three wise men cannot change things mid stream and have to wait for half time? The substitution for Speed, we cannot all be wrong can we? the only one in step?, Here`s me agreeing with BoJangles Ron. All I can say to Stephen Glass is sorry for the treatment you have received at our club, no shape on the left for over one year, yet you are contin- ually ignored and have to read the rumour factory of Newcastle chasing a left sided player from points afar that cannot lace your bootlaces.

Individual players , okay Solano, Dyer are the cream, will rise to the top and both can play in the same team provided they are compensated by others who may not be so talented but can fit easily into a team pattern. Hughes if at the back has got to be the spare, with two markers, Goma and Dabias!!, sorry but Bartons body language when on the ball in defensive situations just reeks of blind panic and this has got to be off putting for his fellow defenders, get im out. If Griff is left to get on with it he will turn out to be a dependable full back , doing a job week in week out.

No my main concern is Robson/Wadsworth/Milne, can they get the best out of what they have got, its their set-up, its today and not the past, if they cannot hack it, get out and retire gracefully.

-- Anonymous, January 10, 2001

Answers

Buff, I think another thread I contributed to would help (I hope) solve your problem.

Shearer is a through and through Geordie, a driven man, driven to succeed, has not taken the easy option by going to Man U, and has continually performed at the highest level. His footballing pedigree begins at 17, he is a natural footballer. What we don't know is whether he has a managerial mind. For me he will have. He has that will to win that Ferguson shows, he is not distracted by the press, he is supremely sure of himself. He may even be the first manager we could have to get us having a siege mentality, opposition fans hate him as a footballer, I feel it would be even more so if he was our manager.

Shearer does add to our playing options when he is 100% fit. But for me he is NEVER 100% fit, ever. He is so driven to be a Newcastle player/captain/number 9 that he can't slow himself down. I don't wish it on him because he still wants to play, but in a way I'd like him never to come back to playing, and turn instead to coaching/management.

Clearly he has to learn, but he has played under the best of managers/coaches in Dalglish, Keegan, Venables, Hoddle, (Gullit ?) and now Robson. He has had the opportunity to do the cherry picking that we have on the best of the best.

Our seats are now up in the gods and we have a very different view of the game to that at a lower level. The tactical view is so much clearer. The Sunderland game, for example, was amazing in this respect. Everyone around me (even some of the kids) saw instantly when the midfield dropped back 15 yards and started to pressure on the half line rather than when their defenders got the ball.

Your comment about flat back 4 and flat back 3 is fair. I also agree with the general disbelief at the lack of Glass when he is fit. In the last three years our best, most balanced performances have been when he has been on the left. The balance comes from both actually having a left sided player, and from the confidence it gives the left back to actually move forward knowing there will be natural cover. (I think your pushing of Glass sometimss comes across as being a bit pro- Aberdeen sometimes though :0}} )

My raising of the Shearer issue is mirrored in the attitude to Lee and Speed (and Barton I suppose). Yes they are the senior professionals but they are no better than say Paul Ince at Boro who has the same profile, and usefulless to them. Three years ago Robert Lee was passed his best, which anyway hadn't been as good as nice Roy Keane, he is no better, but he is comparable to Gary Speed.

England managers (and Walter Smith at Rangers is another example) have always suffered from holding on to dependable talent too long, often because they are old pals they are going to have to be hard on. When he first took over at England Robson took the decision to not pick Keegan, a brave move. In both 1986 and 1990 Robson succeeded by a good deal of luck rather than having a game plan. (86 he had Mark Hateley ahead of Beardsley, and a slow and crocked Wilkins and Robson in midfield, 90 he wasn't set on Gazza, now Mark Wright). The best example, sadly, of moving a team on has been shown at Man U where Fergie has ruthlessly dismantled a perceived weakness in his strong sides .... Leighton, Lee Sharp, Ince, Hughes, Cantona, Schmeicel.

I am NOT advocating youth for youth sakes, I'm just saying you shouldn't have experience for experience's sake either. We all remember Shearer and Lee at their best (don't remember 'best' for Speed and Barton) and bemoan the lack of replacements, but we need to move on. We have 31 points, if we have 34 on Saturday then I'd happily say it was time to forget this season (we aren't good enough) and move on. Part of the moving on is Shearer not playing until next August and coaching (and being coached in coaching) in the meantime.

-- Anonymous, January 10, 2001

Tired of Buff's tactical rantings, tired of life. I guess it takes one auld awkward cuss to recognise another Mr Callaghan sir. Can't comment on Robsons tactics in the games mentioned as I only followed them on the radio/web-cast (though we were clueless against Derby). Compared to the mess we were in when he took over however I still think Bobby Robson's done a creditable job. I don't like the fact so many players want to leave. I am deeply concerned at reports that finances are desperately tight (outbid by Crystal Palace for a player!). But wouldn't a back-lash against Robson/Wadsworth/Milne be pre-mature and self-destructive right now. Despite losing key players, and transfer-list unrest, we are still a very respectable 8th. Robson is not infallible but he's along way to go before I feel he should 'retire gracefully'.

-- Anonymous, January 10, 2001

Seriously Mac....I don't think going to OT would have been the easy option. Big names have come and failed in the past......Garth Crookes....Arthur Graham.....Alan Brazil :-)

-- Anonymous, January 10, 2001

Davenport, Tiabi, Cole

-- Anonymous, January 10, 2001

The amount of experience of our back room staff is simply put, out of this world! I respect what each and everyone of them has done in their careers but maybe its time to at least bring in a former player in their late 30s who might act as a fresh insight to the team, helping Bobby and the rest of the experience staff deal with player relations(no dirty thoughts pls) and provide a fresh outlook on current trends and tactics on and off the field. Now which former player do we know who might jump at the chance?

-- Anonymous, January 10, 2001

Kevin Brock?

-- Anonymous, January 11, 2001

When I think of former players, dressing room harmony and player relations I find I can look no further than ... Daveed Ginola

-- Anonymous, January 11, 2001

Hamaan?

-- Anonymous, January 11, 2001

A development role for AS, perchance?

BTW, I omitted to mention - 'cos I didn't recognise him - that the 'grey team' at Hillheads the other night also included Charlie Woods (Chief Scout?) and Keeper Coach Simon Smith, with 'relative youth' (and dark hair) represented by John Carver (well paid Gopher).

-- Anonymous, January 11, 2001

In reply -: Stevo mate, I am not advocating a backlash at the current regime at Newcastle, what concerns me is the way we always with limited success hoist people on a pedestal. I like Bobby but his tactics, team picks are not above critiscism, he is one of our own, nice guy , what I bemoan on here is no-one will have a go, his buys, tactics, its not so long ago that majority on here , myself included were of one mind re Gullits purchases, *give them to Xmas and we will review the situation, that was the crack then. No one has given (pun) Bobby`s South Americans a time scale, Gullitt dropped Lee and Shearer for his own reasons , power struggle?,maybe he felt they had nothing to offer, he was the boss, now the only bone of contention directed at Bobby is why does he continually pick them when fit.

Mac, as regards the Glass situation, I am not at all clouded by Aberdeen connections , I put myself in his situation. He knows by the media, fans opinions, managers utterings , tea lady that Utd are lop-sided, no shape, that opposing teams know this and will attack that weakness, he knows he has been injury prone , but when fit has seen other players shuffled around to accomodate the position,players having to change their game to suit, 53,000 can see it , as said by most, when in the team has done okay, all I have stated is as Screach will verify, get the 40 points, give him a run of 5 games, I dont know if he will do the biz, but if anyone had justification to put in a transfer request it was Glass, at least things happen off him, see Sunday, Nobby varies free, different angle, goal !!, The only time Shola hits the channels Glass finds him with through balls to feet. Finally no smoke without fire , Domi made a half hearted jibe about training methods at Newcastle , was this ever followed up to fully explain what he was getting at ?.

-- Anonymous, January 11, 2001

Buff,

The punters are reluctant to criticise Bobby because:

* he came in and effected a genuine miracle by saving us from certain relegation
* he recreated a togetherness in a divided squad and got them playing for Newcastle United again
* he rejuvenated several players, and recreated saleable assets from several others
* he pruned the squad of numerous malingerers, malcontents, and the perpetually injured
* he has worked with limited transfer funds without complaining, and the punters realise that in making the Toon truly competitive again he is effectively working with his hands tied behind his back
* the punters realise that he probably would not have bought some of the players he has if he had had more money, but they are prepared to give them a fair chance to deliver
* he has worked with a crippling injury list almost since the day he arrived, and has rarely, if ever, been able to turn out the team he would wish to.
* he is a Geordie, and a nice guy, doing the job for his love of it and the Club rather than out of financial necessity. The punters realise he doesn't need to do it. The punters also realise that he could have walked into the England job temporarily if he had REALLY wanted to, and if he wasn't such a 'straight arrow'.
* after successive managerial failures, and with the Club in something of a financial mess, the punters realise that we desperately need a period of stability and fatherly guidance
* after leading us out of the relegation mire last season, he has in the most difficult circumstances lead us into the top half of the PL, even though it hasn't been either consistent or smooth progress

There are probably other reasons, but primarily people realise that overall the guy has done a great job in non-ideal circumstances, and it is highly questionable whether anyone else could be doing any better.
While there are always issues to debate regarding team selection, tactics, formations, substitutions etc., in general the fans feel he's doing a creditable job and can do without carping criticism.

Is that so difficult to understand?

-- Anonymous, January 11, 2001

Okay Clarky, I will hold my hands up to you, you cannot beat an early morning posting. you are of course correct, its not too hard for me to understand , I shall have to learn to diffrentiate(sp) between someone doing the job he was employed to do and well paid for it and someone not doing the job he was employed to do and well paid for it. Thats probably confusing too most, not me.

-- Anonymous, January 11, 2001

We got money for Maric, what more does a supporter want. We'll be worse than Spurs fans soon.

-- Anonymous, January 11, 2001

Dont't get me wrong Buff, BR isn't perfect (who is?) and has made mistakes. I've criticised his substitutions when I felt they were questionable, our inability to make tactical adjustments mid-game (a point you also made) perplexes me, as does the ongoing apparent inability to address the problems created to our 4-4-2 by opposition 3-5-2 frustrates me, and Bobby's man management of the Domi and Given situations looks flawed.

However, he has done very well, and is doing OK in a difficult situation. We certainly need a period of stability, and it's questionable whether we could get anyone better right now anyway.

The big question for me is Head Coach, Mick Wadsworth - I can't either praise or criticise him, because I just don't know enough about him, or his ability. However, Bobby is a coach himself, and I just wonder whether we should be getting ourselves into a situation where Bobby's successor should be working alongside him, in Wadsworth's position - someone, as you suggested, with a fresh, modern outlook on the game. Maybe Wadsworth IS that man - who knows?

-- Anonymous, January 11, 2001

I haven't heard any of the players openly praising Wadsworth. We're not going to get anyone criticising him I know, but this man is anynonymous!!

I wonder how Robson came to the decision to hire him in the first place, has he ever worked with him before?

-- Anonymous, January 11, 2001

>>>>>We got money for Maric

Goodness me - I initially read that as we've got money for Maric - as in we're going to buy him again - almost brought on a cardiac arrest.

-- Anonymous, January 11, 2001

I believe Wadsworth was on the FA coaching staff when BR was managing England, and they got to know each other quite well.

We have to assume that BR wouldn't have him around if he was an idiot, however, as Buff suggested, does he really provide a different point of view to Bobby, does he have his own tactical philosophy, or is he just a gopher?
He is a curious fella, rather inscrutable. I watched him at Hillheads the other night sitting beside Bobby. He seemed detached and sort of disinterested; didn't say too much, even to BR, and often appeared to be just watching the crowd. Who knows?

-- Anonymous, January 11, 2001

>>>>>what concerns me is the way we always with limited success hoist people on a pedestal.

For me Buff, that is what football support is about. Heroes. Of course, I know damn well they're ordinary mortals but I chose to suspend disbelief for 90 minutes on a Saturday (or whatever bliddy day Sky deems fit).

Sure, some of YBR's decisions are open to question and there are a number of his buys yet to prove themselves value for money. But we are quite high in the league despite huge injury problems and it's far too early for me to even think about taking Bobby from his pedestal yet. Until such time as I see him slip beneath the waves I shall continue to believe that he walks on water and that a league title is just around the corner. And if I'm wrong? Well, I'll wait to be unhappy then and content myself with illusions for now.

-- Anonymous, January 11, 2001

Clarky, A couple of postings, I can see light at the end of the tunnel a wee bit of common ground between us , I knew that you in the past had questioned the tactics employed, formation employed , medical expertise , not up to me to say that, Macbeth asked for a discussion, I put over some of my points , that does not mean I do not rate YBR but I reserve the right to have my tuppenceworth , take that away and what have we to show over the years?. I repeat what concerns me is that in doing so it should be construed as being petty

-- Anonymous, January 11, 2001

Got called away. exercise , usual crap , different story, another day, but it does tend to get in the way of your train of thought, work agh, Clarky`s surveillance of the inscrutable Wadsworth at Kingston Pk got me thinking about an article by Henrik Larson this season , the theme of which has been reported by other Celts, they first knew they were going forward as a club when Martin O Neil was observed at the first game dancin and leaping like a dervish in celebration of a goal Larsen said he could identify himself with the managers actions, he was one of us, his wild enthusiasm immediatly began to rub off.

-- Anonymous, January 11, 2001

Buff,
If anything I have said implies you are being petty then I can only apologise - that was certainly not my intention. In my early morning post I was simply trying to offer an explanation for why the fans are reticent about overtly criticising Bobby Robson. I do have a tendency to get carried away when defending my corner, overly enthusiastically at times I know, and hope those of you who know me make allowances.
I invariably enjoy your postings, and had felt we were having a good debate on this issue.

-- Anonymous, January 11, 2001

I just assumed that Bobby brought Wadsworth in as someone who could never be shifted into his seat. He got moved upstairs in the past and quite sensibly doesn't trust our Club as far as he can throw them. No "holidays" for Bobby: if they want him out they'll have to do it the hard way. It was alright for Keegan and Kenny with Terry Mac, wasn't it?

-- Anonymous, January 11, 2001

Still are debating Clarky , that`s what it is all about, use of the word carping stung me a bit tho, nivver mind eh !! I failed miserably as my intention was to get Macs debate going on tactics, the plan and Bobby`s progress to now and for you to come in wearing your ex company dir bowler but no , crafty b----r never took off his black n white tammy did you!!, bowler only for the board is it?

-- Anonymous, January 11, 2001

Going back to an earlier message......Cole failed at Man U?

Wish we had a failure like Cole.

-- Anonymous, January 11, 2001

This year was always going to be harder than last year. We only wanted survival last year - this year, we wanted Europe plus some great football on the way. The truth is, it will take time to rebuild. How can you rebuild when you can almost never play your best team? How can you rebuild when a 20 year old is the only player who has been a permanent fixture in your defence? How can you rebuild when you can't buy players?

-- Anonymous, January 11, 2001

Buff - sorry marra, but the word 'carping' really wasn't directed specifically at you. BTW: the 'bowler' is consigned to history now - and good riddance to it. It's the b&w tammy every day now.

Dougal - you're quite right. It was always going to take 2-3 years to restructure the squad, and sort out the mess that BR inherited: without a lot of brass it could well take longer.

-- Anonymous, January 11, 2001

YBR has spent more than £15m on players, a fact which seems consistently overlooked on these threads. The jury is out on several of them but it can't be said he's had no money.

-- Anonymous, January 11, 2001

And his net outlay has been?

-- Anonymous, January 11, 2001

Ps. I mean, I read somwhere that he had actually only spent 1.5 mills, the rest was all player trading... Hradly quite the sane as Dags and Gullit got.

-- Anonymous, January 11, 2001

Agree with Jonno , re the money made availible , I work on the principle that after a year Bobby is suitably ensconced, Keegan, Dagleish, Gullitt are history ,

-- Anonymous, January 11, 2001

Agree with Jonno , re the money made availible , I work on the principle that after a year Bobby is suitably ensconced, Keegan, Dagleish, Gullitt are history.

-- Anonymous, January 11, 2001

The net spend is important only from the club accountant's viewpoint.

YBR inherited a pool of players. Some he wanted some he didn't. I don't think he sold anyone he wanted to keep. He is given a supply of the club's assets that he can swap for other players - those assets might be cash or existing players - what difference does it make? The fact is he's brought in £15m+ of players that he wanted, players that in his judgement would improve the squad. I'd expect us to see a return from that and I think we have started to see a return. I think and hope we'll see even more return when Cort is back and when Lua Lua and Gavilan show us what they can do.

The situation would be very different had he been ordered to sell a top quality player that he did want to retain, but with the possible exception of Big Dunc, (whom I think he had lost patience with) he was not obliged to sell anyone, if he thought that they could do a job for us.

I think Wenger's net spend is probably negative and he's done a canny job. Whilst YBR is somewhat constrained by present circs, I don't think the position is as dire as is often painted here. If he had inherited a rubbish squad there would not have been £15m worth to sell in the first place.

-- Anonymous, January 11, 2001

He's done a good job of flogging people for more than their worth. There were some Man City supporters on "You're on Sky Sports" the other day who reckoned that Charvet was their worst ever player. Likwise getting 1.5 mills for Paul Robinson who ended up on loan from Wimbledon and couldn't get a game at his loan club. Furthermore, Leeds spent 18 mills on one player - we have spent less than that on about 6.

-- Anonymous, January 11, 2001

Steady on Jonno - if he had inherited a rubbish squad - he would not have had say 15 mill - previous post I said KK,TSM,TDO were history, I better leave it at that - are you saying in your opinion YBR was left a decent legacy by ? and ?

-- Anonymous, January 11, 2001

Steady on Jonno - if he had inherited a rubbish squad - he would not have had say 15 mill - previous post I said KK,TSM,TDO were history, I better leave it at that - are you saying in your opinion YBR was left a decent legacy by _ and _?

-- Anonymous, January 11, 2001

My point Buff is that the legacy wasn't that bad. There were some good players and some bad. The main problem of the inheritance, as we recall, was appalling morale.

Dougal, It's Freddie Shepherd, I believe, who takes the credit for getting good prices on our sales. It comes from no less a person than the chairman, that FS is a tough negotiator.

As regards the £18m Rio, well Dougal, you're keen on the quick one line put down, so try these -

What good did it do them when he faced cost-nowt Shola? Where are Leeds in the league in relation to tightwads Newcastle? Sunderland & Leicester are ahead of us - what's their net spend?

-- Anonymous, January 11, 2001

Jonno - Please don't be so nasty. It wasn't a quick put down: it was a statement of fact which you yourself have used when I once mentioned that the plc football clubs were being tighter than those that weren't plcs. Sunderland's outlays are higher over the period of time in question. Sunderland bought Arca, Varga and Hutchison and Thome and sold almost no one. I don't know about Leicester offhand. Whether Rio is good or bad isn't the point - it's the fact that they could buy what they perceived to be a great player without fannying around trying to buy Pablo Paz or sell most of their centre halves to buy him. Incidentally, I think they wuz robbed and I'm glad that finally, NUFC have raised a player that they once would have spent a fortune to buy in Aaron Hughes. Finally, Freddy Shepherd has admitted he's being tight in the current environment but also says that over the long term, the board never have been tight. I would agree with him on both counts.

-- Anonymous, January 11, 2001

Ps. Incidentally, Leeds can afford players because their great youth policy has yielded some great players so they haven't spent much over the past few years. In fact, their bairns got them into the Champions League. Being there has enabled them to buy some stardust now.

-- Anonymous, January 11, 2001

Jonno - I agree re morale.

-- Anonymous, January 11, 2001

ppps: Jonno. Incidentally, I have maintained that we will win f...k all until most of the team have come through the youth set up. Unfortunately, as I understand it, while the club has got the land and the planning permission, they need extra permissions from the environment agency as it used to be a dump so the chances are that the Makems will have their brand new youth academy up and running long before us.

-- Anonymous, January 11, 2001

Having been brought up in the era of the "Patch", McKeags , Hurfords etc, FS and DH plus SJH have done more in 24 hrs than the tosspots above did in years ,were we suckers or were we prime time suckers, A nice man, a very nice man, a ver very very nice man has just given The Buff a bottle of Glenmorangie - oh lucky me - cheers Dave just tellin all the Geordies what a nice man you are , see ya.

-- Anonymous, January 11, 2001

Buff - I couldn't disagree that the previous regimes were all vastly inferior to the present one.

-- Anonymous, January 11, 2001

>>>>>Jonno - Please don't be so nasty.

Sorry pet (that will have to go!) but it's my new strategy in life. The other way has brought me nigh on to ruin! :-)

Here, pet, I must say you seem to be on a bit of a downer this last day or so with regards to anything Newcastle that isn't Aaron Hughes. I can only urge you to look on the bright side. Top half of the league, great manager, stadium, fans, and, well, and Aaron Hughes.

Now choose your reply :- a)Aye but we never win owt do we?
b)I can see Robson leaving with no money to spend
c)The stadium's a white elephant if we can't afford any players
d)With wor luck Aaron'll be injured or transferred soon.

Oh dear - you win pet - I've got myself believing all that now. :-)

-- Anonymous, January 11, 2001

LOL. LOL. LOL. LOL. LOL. Actually, I was dead optimistic until about 4 days ago. I still think we've got some great players, a great manager, a great stadium and great fans. Oh, and Aaron Hughes :))

-- Anonymous, January 11, 2001

Dougal,

YOUTH ACADEMY

I hesitate to do this as I already seem to have upset half the bbs recently - HOWEVER, regarding the aforementioned "Youth Academy", the following is a verbatim extract from the Minutes of the recent NUFC AGM, kindly posted on here by Tony just before Xmas:-

Question: When will the Academy be up and running?
Answer - Russell Jones: We have planning permission and agreed outline contract terms with our Contractor, but at present some ground contamination checks are being undertaken by the City council prior to us taking over the lease of the site. Once those tests & any related work required are done work can commence.
Irrespective of the above, your Board would not sanction work to begin until the current doubt over the future of the transfer system was sorted.

NO COMMENT.

-- Anonymous, January 11, 2001

Muppets.

-- Anonymous, January 11, 2001

"Irrespective of the above, your Board would not sanction work to begin until the current doubt over the future of the transfer system was sorted".

On further reflection, can anyone actually explain this further lame excuse reason for holding back on the development of the long-awaited Youth Academy?

Is there any possible combination of factors - other than nuclear winter, or a haemorrhoid asteroid impacting the earth - that would lead us to not wish to develop our own talent?

-- Anonymous, January 11, 2001

So, no academy until a decision is made on the future of transfer system. Not shelling out millions on players is one thing, but this sort of short-sighted nonsense makes me despair. Is there any other club in the country using the current uncertainty as an excuse not to invest in youth development?

-- Anonymous, January 11, 2001

Reading between the lines, I can only think that the board see the academy as a player factory to produce talent for auction to all & sundry. The short -sightedness of this is staggering, it smacks of "why invest if we do not see an immediate return?".



-- Anonymous, January 11, 2001

Err, isn't the board's point here that they'll not pay to train and develop kids from the age of ten when under the worst-case impending EU changes, those players can simply walk as soon as they turn 18, without a single penny of compensation to the club that nurtured the talent? The academy will swallow around 10million per year, so what's the point if it takes 5 years to get the kids through, and then not only can you not sell any of that asset, but you can't even keep it.

-- Anonymous, January 12, 2001

Eureka, Dunx - you've got it.
Anyone now like to speculate just who, under this presumed scenario, will develop the professional footballers of the future?

-- Anonymous, January 12, 2001

Whatever, the Board will be better informed about the situation than us.

THE ongoing discussions about the legality of the current transfer system in the EU has once more hit problems - with an assertion that a compensation system for younger players would contravene the rules. Fifa and Uefa had been hopeful to push through a modified system, after it became clear that the European Parliament hinted that they were prepared to treat sport as a special case.

However, talks have broken down because Uefa decided that more time was needed to consider their options - despite firmly disagreeing with a statement from Labour MEP Glyn Ford that there was an inherent problem with their modified system.

"Whatever the arguments football makes, there cannot be a distinction between younger and older players," Ford said.

"That makes any attempt to replace the transfer system with a compensation for younger players illegal."

However Fifa communications director Keith Cooper denied there was a problem saying: "We have a declaration from Nice on December 6th which acknowledges that sport, and football in particular, needs to be dealt with as a special case."

-- Anonymous, January 12, 2001

Oh well, in that case I'll stop worrying about it!

-- Anonymous, January 12, 2001

A club like Newcastle (big club - can pay the highest wages) will probably benefit from an academy although the risk remains that their best youngsters could be stolen after the talent has been nurtured.

But what of the clubs lower down the scale? If they invest in youth development, as soon as any talent is produced, a big club will come along with a much better offer and they've lost the player. This proposed EU ruling seems like a disaster for small clubs and for the furtherance of the game in general.

This same problem of training exists in the wider workplace today. Companies are always bemoaning a skills shortage, but when hiring they want someone with the relevant skill right NOW and are loathe to train as the employee can just leave after the training. Training still happens of course, but perhaps not as much as necessary.

-- Anonymous, January 12, 2001

I have followed the debate on academy`s with interest, is there a problem ? if so it has always been there, In the past North East being the hot bed of talent for football would attract the scouts , Utd had the N`s (nursery) and a good few made it from there to the first team but Scotland was the main supplier of finished goods at that paticular time. Burnley`s set up in the area was amazing and seeing the name of Ray Hankin attached to Newcastle got me thinking , in one game Burnley fielded 8 Geordies, managed by a Geordie , at the time these guys were considered the overspill, escaped the net , but a few ofthem went on to get capped for England, when a cap meant something. The point being at the present time you have not got the amount of talent coming thro , transfer fees are fearsome, nurture your own is the way.

Wednesday nights we have 25 primary kids 5 - 11 years of age, Summer Leagues, Outlay strips, club mini-bus - insurance. 14 and under (kids who have come up from primary`s), a very succesful 16 and under admittedly we have recruited in 50%, senior squad and revelant cost , £10,000 a year to run our wee club. A few have moved on , 3 to the pro game , 6 to Highland League on pro forms , numerous others to the Juniors (semi pro) , I am still waiting for our first ball, or set of strips , or even a thank you from any of these clubs, its hard to accept , but they all start somewhere and who can stand in the way of progress. I do not know what Newcastle`s arrangements are with the schools or say Wallsend Boys Club but with the correct outlook the academy`s are already in place, the teachers are very good , limited by budgetrary controls tho , enter Newcastle Utd.!!

I have received a invitation to enter a team in the biggest Football Festival in Europe , July in Manchester , if you wonder why Becks goes for big bucks it will cost us to register a team £125, transport £200, s/c at Man Uni (bring your own sleeping bag)£?????? Games played at Man City pitches, other tit-bits include visit to Arndale Cent, Lowery ? and Old Trafford, was going to ask LR for further details but on second thoughts he aint a native of Manc- is he, claws in Buff!!!. I am sure if it was on at Newcastle my fellow committee members would give it a great deal of thought.

-- Anonymous, January 12, 2001

Your comparison of the potential situation in football, if the transfer system is completely outlawed, to the situation with industrial training is very apposite. It was precisely the mentality you have outlined that has decimated what formerly were hugely successful industrial apprentice schemes, and resulted in a MASSIVE current shortage of skilled craftsmen - that seems to be getting worse. This situation scares the hell out of me regarding the future well-being of our industrial society.

Most companies nowadays take the view - save the money formerly spent on training apprentices, and we'll just hire (ie. steal) people trained by "others". This might have worked fine when there were "others" to steal, but when the majority of companies take the same short-sighted view, then the overall supply of skilled craftsmen simply dries up.

There is a very clear demonstration of what can go wrong here for our football clubs - if they care to take notice.

-- Anonymous, January 13, 2001

Previous post was directed to Jonno, in answer to his earlier post.

-- Anonymous, January 13, 2001

And another parallel to the reluctance of employers to train...they wind up going to foreign countries(Asia) to hire skilled workers at cheaper rates(even after the cost of relocation and work visas) rather than invest in willing and capable 'home' talent. And surprise, surprise....these foreign workers have the same mercenary attitudes as footballers. come in for a few years, make tons of money, they feck off with their wads of cash back to their home countries. Can't blame the workers or the footballers for doing what's best for themselves. But drives me nuts to then hear companies moaning they can't find good workers in their own countries. :-|

-- Anonymous, January 13, 2001

Spot on ciara - companies have a corporate and moral responsibility to train their own staff/workers. They must then exercise the brain-power, fortitude, management skill and common sense required to retain the best of their skilled people, as well as giving this a high enough priority - if they don't they will inevitably lose them.

-- Anonymous, January 13, 2001

Whoooh, where the hell did that loud voice come from?
Sorry about that peeps!

-- Anonymous, January 13, 2001