It's been almost a month now since "Greatest of Gifts" has aired and there's still no review at www.digiserve.com/er/episodes yet. Is there ever going to be one? Yes I know that people have lives but come on. It's been almost a month now. If you can't do it have someone else do it. There are those who can't see the new season yet and would like to read the review to see what happened.

-- Michelle (michelle@mail.com), January 08, 2001

Answers

http://www.digiserve.com/er/episodes/season7/er709s-r.html

-- abigail (abbyqueen@aol.com), January 08, 2001.

The review has been posted for several weeks. The summary is missing. There's a difference. I point this out only because I'm a petty thug who enjoys demeaning people, according to a pseudonomous person who sent me e-mail this week.

If you don't like the fact that things sometimes don't get done as quickly as you might want, there are things you can do. The first would be to send me a cheque for $700, which when split seven ways would go a long way to ensuring that the summaries and reviews get written and posted as fast as humanly possible. Until that happens, you'll have to live with the timetable I and my colleagues set, and read what we post when we post it.

(In case that last point needs clarification: This is a volunteer project. We get nothing other than the personal thrill of producing something for the public. Unfortunately, that does not pay bills, clean houses, or take care of family members who are sick, so this thrill takes a back seat to Real Life, always. You can send complaints to:

Operations Department
1060 W. Addison
Chicago, IL
60613-4397

Hate mail on this subject will be deleted or returned with additional flames attached as I see fit. Thus endeth the last thing I'm going to say on this subject.)

-- Mike Sugimoto (phloem@fumbling.com), January 08, 2001.

Why do people keep asking this question? If I were running this site, I'd delay the summary posting an additional week for each time someone asks this. Let's see, could we make the folks who are taking their personal time to do this for free feel any LESS appreciated? I'm sorry, but it's not their duty to do things for us, and there certainly is no special time frame to be followed. If it's not up there for next six months, are people going to keep asking? Have you ever heard the word "ingrate"?

-- MS (shepcaff@ix.netcom.com), January 08, 2001.

Have you actually gotten hate mail on this subject, Mike? Not that I find that hard to believe...I guess there's always someone to complain about a free service not being delivered in a timely fashion.

"The food here is terrible." "I know, and such small portions." ;-)

-- Cecelia (evilstoat@hotmail.com), January 08, 2001.

I've said this before and I'll say it again. We should be greatful they even do this. I bet there are some shows that have no long review like "ER" does. So just be greatful and quit your whining! Thanks to Mike, Phyl, and to the rest of the crew that does this every week.

-- Cammie (rmaelhorn@home.com), January 08, 2001.

Have you actually gotten hate mail on this subject, Mike?

I get hate mail (well, strongly typed mail) on just about every subject under the sun. Based on a non-random sampling of my mailbox, it seems you cannot please everyone. At any given moment, I can be sure that someone, somewhere, is getting ready to send me mail complaining about something we're doing (or not). And I'm reasonably certain that 45% of them will call me a loser, insult my sexual tendencies, bemoan my lack of a life (at least I'm not sending angry mail to random people on the Internet), or fling various other accusations in my general direction about what I may or may not do with farm animals.

I'm amazed at the sense of entitlement some people have with respect to this site -- or any other freely-provided service on the Internet. It's almost as though they seem to think we have some kind of contractual obligation to provide them with information; that we should drop everything right now and deal with their request. We had one kid (and I use the term loosely) who began threatening Phyl and I over the fact that we would not make him copies of all the episodes. My first contact with this nitwit was "please make me copies of all the episodes." No preamble, no "hi, my name is Ken and I'm a TV pirate," nothing. Just "gimme." I can't stand people banging on my door and saying "gimme."

Consequently, it was a new year's resolution that, in Web publishing at least, I am only going to try to please myself (and those who matter to me) and invite those who don't like this fact to go pound salt. I also resolved to be less shy about this point than I have been in the past.

-- Mike Sugimoto (phloem@fumbling.com), January 08, 2001.

Hey, Mike, you and Phyl should make a list of moronic requests you've received. It would simultaneously amuse those of us w/ common sense, and serve as a "don't ask this" list for those w/o. You could do in all that spare time these people seem to think you have. ;-)

-- Maureen (shepcaff@ix.netcom.com), January 08, 2001.

If one site is takes a little longer to up date i just find another till the firts one updates here is a site with a very good long review of the eppys

http://mightybigtv.com/index.html?/home.asp&0

http://www.gist.com/tvclubs/epiguide_index.jsp?key=er&fanclub=er&seaso n=7

both have long summarys on the 1st one just click on the tittle and people be thankful that you even have this web site it could just go away and you'd have no Summary/Review or even this dissicion forum

Julie

-- Julie Hochsztein (juliehoch5@yahoo.com), January 08, 2001.

Oh, we do get whacky e-mail. I don't generally save them (the guy who continually threatened me got a nice letter sent to his ISP and he hasn't bothered me since). The truth is, there are two sides to the mail coin. I receive mail each and every week; almost daily. People pop in on my AOL/IM and ask me questions as well. Most of the people who write or contact me are wonderful. They thank us for what we do (and we share that type of e-mail with each other, because it's so nice) or add a nice comment encouraging our efforts. I'll never forget the person who wrote and said that their office in Canada posts the summary and reviews on the bulletin board after every episode -- I was amazed. Or the people who write to tell us how something we wrote touched them (a woman recently wrote thanking me for describing how wonderful breastfeeding was for mother and baby -- I did it as an informational thing in "The Greatest of Gifts" regarding Jing-Mei). People also write to ask simple questions (I had two today, in fact).

I also get various hate mail, which peaked last season when I opined that Carol wasn't in love with Luka and I felt she still loved Doug. Someone wrote me (this was my all-time favorite rant e-mail, and I wish I'd kept it) explaining in no uncertain terms how Luka would "take his place as the rightful father of the twins."

I don't mind answering questions, or helping someone find an episode name, or anything else that I can help with if I have the time. My name is on the site and people will e-mail me. But when I receive e-mail demanding where a summary is (I got four last week, I think) and the people use a "oh, c'mon, where is it???" tone of voice, that irks me. We do our best. I know the vast majority of posters/readers know that.

-- Phyl (erfan@flash.net), January 08, 2001.

I know that there are a few unappreciative or impatient people out there, but I for one love this sight and look foreward to the reviews and will wait however long it takes these people to post them. When the writers were having their "most depressing episode" contest, they still found ways to make the episodes fun and write the most hilarious summaries and reviews I have ever read. Keep up the good work, and thanks so much for everything you guys do. You all are too funny! And I really would love to hear more of some of the ridiculous requests that people send to you.

-- Mallory (mallory_1523@yahoo.com), January 08, 2001.

Your reviews are great, and these discussion boards (usually) are like getting together with wise and witty friends to talk about a shared passion - er. The quality of the discourse is worth the wait. Thanks for a great site.

-- Carrie (cthorburn1@go.com), January 09, 2001.

I would like to say that I'm very happy that anyone has taken the time to write such in-depth reviews/summaries. I did not even want to watch this season as the stories seemed too depressing/outlandish or whatever. So, I actually just read the summaries thru That Dance We Do and I actually WANTED to watch the next show on tv. So, never mind the impatient people who are in serious withdrawal like Michelle, but others (and I see there are many) are grateful for what is there - I don't see people like Michelle offering to do reviews! Thanks for all the great folks who write such interesting and hilarious reviews - keep up the great work!

-- Patti (bp.teney@sk.sympatico.ca), January 09, 2001.

Everytime that someone comes up asking what Michelle did, I suggest their going to another page, usually MightyBigTV or ERDaily. But I sort of end up asking myself, what´s up with them? cant they do a simple research on Internet? ever heard of Yahoo? Some people just want it now, here and with the less effort possible and that really drives me nuts. Its like Calvin and Hobbes when Calvin is angry with Santa Claus: "Just because he provides a free service he thinks he can get away with being ineficient"...This time I´d like to suggest to that people if you are such a big fan (and for some reason you couldnt see the show) and you cant wait to read the next epi, well go to anoter place or do something useful: make your own site, translate the available reviews to you local language or dialect; write an ER timeline, write a biography of every character, make new jokes, update the ER drinking game or whatever...make yourself useful, keep yourself busy and you might realize a)that keeping up a site is ANYTHING but easy and b)time flies when you are working. Who knows? You might get yourself your own bunch of people who´d appreciate your hard work and your own bunch of ungrateful wackos... I´ve been wondering about the person who owns ERDaily, not because I need a fix (believe it or not there are lots of places to go in the Intenet), but because that person is like a clock and I just hope her not updating is because she´s taking it easy, not because she has a problem, and I wouldnt even dream of going "hey when are you going update the site" like there werent other things in life. I started watching ER´s 4th season on cable and I started reading all the other epis in this site. Then they started broadcasting all the rest in open TV, but thats not the point; the point is this site helped me a lot to understand the characters and the medical aspects, and has improved the whole experience of watching ER, and for that I´m grateful and I wouldnt dream on "demanding service" like that. Really Mike, dont mind those things, please.

-- jules (jsheldon@operamail.com), January 09, 2001.

"I don't see people like Michelle offering to do reviews!"

I've actually thought about doing that myself on more than one occasion...

I'd suggest that anyone who has some spare time give it a shot and see what kind of a chore it is. Writing can be a great deal of fun, but when you take the trouble to make an interesting, enjoyable, thought-provoking document that lots of people can get into and hash over, it can take a lot of time. 'Specially when you're something of a perfectionist. ;-)

Seriously, setting up a page at Geocities or some such and just plugging away (in your free time) at a weekly summary--to say nothing of the reviews that people like Phyl & co. put such care into- --might make some folks realize that it isn't just a matter of sitting at your desk and waiting for the Muse to strike.

-- Cecelia (evilstoat@hotmail.com), January 09, 2001.

ER Daily is still extant. It's just been down for a couple days because of a computer problem, and I apologize, as I do appreciate people saying the site is "like a clock." It will be back tomorrow (including the Monday edition which was all made up and waiting over the weekend but which I never got a chance to upload...) Personally, my web philosophy is, don't offer it unless you're serious about updating when you say you will. Of course, every once in a while a glitch will occur and you can't stick to your plan. I too have been wondering where the "Greatest of Gifts" summary is - I guess at this point my only question would be, it's been over two weeks, would it be possible to hand the job off to another one of the regular alt.tv.er summarizers at this point? But that's just a curious query, not a DEMAND.

-- Ellen (eedgert1@twcny.rr.com), January 09, 2001.

Ellen I´m glad to know you are fine! If that "may-the-devil-toast-thee-to-death" cable company of mine was showing the current episodes I´d offer a hand, but if there´s anything else I can help, just say it. Computers are like that, so take it easy... =)

-- jules (jsheldon@operamail.com), January 09, 2001.

And yes... writing summaries is hard. Especially accurate ones, I should know, I have a bare-bones summary of new episodes on ER Daily within a half hour that the episode ends on the East Coast, and I've made plenty of mistakes here and there. I appreciate that the regular summary writers take their time.

-- Ellen (eedgert1@twcny.rr.com), January 09, 2001.

You know I was just asking. You guys don't have to all worked up over it. It's not like I asked what the song playing when Carter was stabbed was. Geez. Give me a break, will ya? Thanks to those who answered nicely.

-- Michelle (michelle@mail.com), January 09, 2001.

Good thing you didn't ask that question. You would have really gotten flamed!

-- Andie (non@no.com), January 09, 2001.

I didn't think we were getting all worked up over it. We were just commentiong on it. If you really think we were getting worked up over it then you obviously have not been to some other ER boards where some people do get worked up over pointless stuff like this.

-- Cammie (rmaelhorn@home.com), January 09, 2001.

Well paint me yellow and call me banana, but I think that Michelle wrote her comment in a very unkind way and I think that everybody who was worked up had plenty of reason to do so...Read the original post again and you´ll see the tone is demanding and critical of a service that is provided for free. Do you see any publicity banner over here? No. Do you know why? Because its free...they dont get anything from posting, and they do have lives and managing the whole thing is hard work. So excuuuuse the he** out of me for geting mad with ungrateful people that dont even write carefuly their comments...Read the original post and tell me it doesnt sound demanding and assuming...

-- jules (jsheldon@operamail.com), January 09, 2001.

Jules- It was not mean you idiot! I wasn't being mean, okay? If I wanted to be mean I would have said something very mean with a few swear words in it. I know they have lives. I was just asking nicely so go just go F*** off!

-- Michelle (michelle@mail.com), January 09, 2001.

Oh no. Here we go again.

-- Andie (non@no.com), January 09, 2001.

No we wont Andie...so dont worry.

-- jules (jsheldon@operamail.com), January 09, 2001.

it's been over two weeks, would it be possible to hand the job off to another one of the regular alt.tv.er summarizers at this point?

Would it be possible? Sure. Am I going to do it? Nah.

At this point, the fact that the summary is late has all sorts of additional value (like pissing off impatient people) and I'm not going to throw that away sooner than I have to. ;) Seriously, I could ask that it be reassigned to somebody else, but a) that other person would have to agree to do it and b) it essentially means I'd have to throw out whatever work was already done.

People interested in reading what kind of mail I get -- not necessarily unreasonable requests, but a somewhat random sampling -- can view my archives. In case you're wondering, I do have a favorite "conversation" that took place last summer; it's a good example of the kind of mail that usually shows up and gets ignored as soon as I read the first two lines. (Warning: Easily offended people should not follow either link. People outraged that I would have the audacity to post private e-mail on the Web should also not follow these links. Not that this is going to stop anyone, of course.)

-- Mike Sugimoto (phloem@fumbling.com), January 09, 2001.

There are other sites that have reviews up. I update one at www.episodeguides.com and it can be tough to do the guide. it takes at least an hour to watch the episode. be happy that anyone does it, and check around other places before you complain about it not being up.

-- Steven Jacobson (steven@episodeguides.com), January 09, 2001.

Well, Michelle, if you don't think your first post was mean, your last one *certainly* was. Jules is not an idiot. Jules is right. The original post COMES OFF as bitchy, whether or not that's how you intended it. You do know that people can't hear your tone of voice when you're typing, right? That's why you have to be very careful what you write, or run the risk of being misunderstood. Your original post ("Yes I know that people have lives but come on") sounds snotty. Yes people have lives. For all you know they may have had a death in the family or something equally horrific. So wait patiently, or use another site. Or at least phrase your queries a bit more carefully.

-- MM (conjurer_3x3@hotmail.com), January 09, 2001.

Kind of OT- What is it about today that is making alot of people bit**y? I was lurking at a few message boards for ER and other shows today and alot of people are arguing with people and complaining just a little more than usual if you ask me. I wonder if it's because it's there's a full moon out tonight.

-- Andie (non@no.com), January 09, 2001.

Good point Andie...do you remember what epi it was when they had the wolfman on ER? Was it Full Moon Saturday Night or another one? Those were good.

-- (jsheldon@operamail.com), January 09, 2001.

Maybe it is the full moon. I have heard that a full moon makes people act differently.

-- Cammie (rmaelhorn@home.com), January 09, 2001.

Hey Jules! Your post wan't there before I posted. I love that episode. "Full Moon, Saturday Night." Okay it's not Saturday but still.

-- Cammie (rmaelhorn@home.com), January 09, 2001.

Oh yeah. I remember. I was just thinking about that. Oh my gosh. This is too weird. I'm listening to my radio right now and guess what song just came on? "Twist and Shout". Is this weird or what? The good days on "ER". Will we ever see that kind of stuff again on the show?

-- Andie (non@no.com), January 09, 2001.

Gee Mike-

there were really times when I used to read stuff like this and think that I wouldn't want to be in your position and have to maintain a site/ discussion board like this one. But now I've checked out those two links regarding the trashy e-mails you get almost every day, and it makes me wonder if I'm missing on something??? I guess just reading all that dumb stuff must be funnier than any comedy I've ever watched- I must admit, I'm jealous! :-)

-- Anne (annebercher@gmx.de), January 10, 2001.

It's funny, I've read about the bad e-mails Mike gets and my experience has not been the same. Especially this week when my own site was down for a couple days. When I got my computer back running I found I had a lot of e-mails of the "what happened/whereizzit" variety, but they were all 100% courteous. I have yet to get a flame, in any case. Then again, I don't think my site is as widely available on the major directories as this one is, so I probably don't get a real cross- section of the "ER public."

-- Ellen (eedgert1@twcny.rr.com), January 10, 2001.

What amazes me is people make a big deal about a tv show. I read those e-mails Mike got. Not to be mean or anything but I couldn't help but laugh at the way some people make a big deal of things. It's just a tv show after all.

-- Cammie (rmaelhorn@home.com), January 10, 2001.

LOL Andie! That´s a thrilling TV style coincidence...We dont have a full moon tonight do we? This would be a good trivia question: how many episodes had fool night shifts?

-- jules (jsheldon@operamail.com), January 10, 2001.

Last night was the first night of the Full Moon. So we'll have another one tonight. People are still arguing today I see. I think I'll just stay over at this board until things calm down, or until the Full Moon ends, which ever comes first. LOL!

-- Andie (non@no.com), January 10, 2001.

When does it end Andie, or anyonelse? The full moon I mean. My calendar is awful, it only shows the first night of the full moon.

-- jules (jsheldon@operamail.com), January 10, 2001.

Full Moons last a week. They only print on the calendar one time each month though.

-- Cammie (rmaelhorn@home.com), January 10, 2001.

Duh! Sorry Cammie, somebody (me) needs to go back to natural science classes =)

-- jules (jsheldon@operamail.com), January 10, 2001.

Don't worry about it jules!

-- Cammie (rmaelhorn@home.com), January 10, 2001.

I've read about the bad e-mails Mike gets and my experience has not been the same.

Lucky you. I must have some kind of sign hanging around my various e- mail addresses that says "please send your incoherent jibberish here." It's the only explanation I can come up with. I don't mind it, but I do miss the old Internet -- you still got randomly incoherent bozos, but they were of a higher quality than what you get today.

Full Moons last a week. They only print on the calendar one time each month though.

That's not specifically true. The phase of the moon is constantly changing, and if you were to observe it at the same point in the sky on sequential nights following a full moon with all other things being equal, you would see that it is slightly less round each time you looked. Since we've just come off a full moon, it is now in the waning gibbous phase, and the dark shadow will get larger and larger as we approach the new moon. The dates printed in a calendar that represent full, quarter, crescent and new moons (most don't cover the gibbous phases) are the dates that the moon is really full, or new, or at quarter or crescent; they represent the points over the 29.5 days of the lunar cycle where these stages are at their maxima. There's an excellent Flash-based demonstration of the lunar cycle at the NASA Ames Research Center's Lunar Prospector information page.

-- Mike Sugimoto (phloem@fumbling.com), January 10, 2001.

Thanks for the link Mike!

-- jules (jsheldon@operamail.com), January 11, 2001.

Wow, I really enjoyed reading this topic, the archived stuff was great! It just really rings home for me, because of the fairly large site I run myself on dog training and showing (dogpatch.org). I get an endless stream of emails from people wanting to know how to potty- train their dog, train them not to bite, wanting to know where to get a puppy, ad infinitum. Of course, the whole *point* of the site is for them to find this information on the web! After years of dealing with this, I put up a letter for newcomers that basically says, do your own work and don't bother me. Well, I get a good flame letter every few months or so from someone that takes exception to this and thinks I should be willing and happy to answer any and all emails that come my way (probably someone that always emails people doing volunteer websites rather than finding the info themselves). Like Mike, I don't ignore these idiots, I play them for all they are worth. Not one of them would ever be willing to put the kind of work in that we do on a daily basis to keep these sites running. All complaining *ever* does is make them feel totally unappreciated and wonder why they even bother to do it in the first place.

-- Mary Jo Sminkey (maryjo@dogpatch.org), January 11, 2001.

I'm sorry. But I couldn't keep quiet any longer. I usually just lurk on these sites. But something has to be said about this topic. What happened to common curtosey(My spelling might not be right but you know what I mean). I read the emails sent to Mike and his talking about the old internet and how there was fewer morons. Well have you ever heard the saying, "You're either part of the problem or part of the solution." You want a better internet try being nicer. Giving someone a rude answer makes you just as bad as those who ask the stupid questions.

-- Tally (tallymae1999@aol.com), January 11, 2001.

Uh-oh. Something tells me that some flaming is about to start. I hope I'm wrong though.

-- Andie (non@no.com), January 11, 2001.

LOL, I wonder if this is Brainy Smurf's way of trying to pre- emptively tell me to shut up? ;-)

-- Cecelia (evilstoat@hotmail.com), January 11, 2001.

You want to know what's really funny? You called me brainy when I haven't said one bad thing about you for a while now. But then again I do have a brain so I guess I am brainy.

-- Andie (non@no.com), January 11, 2001.

Andie- They can flame me all they want. It would only prove my point.

-- Tally (tallymae1999@aol.com), January 11, 2001.

And it feels so good to be right.

-- Cecelia (evilstoat@hotmail.com), January 11, 2001.

This is kind of OT but since Tally and Andie are talking about flaming I thought I'd mention it. I have been at the Tennessee Titans message board quite a few times since they lost on Sunday:( and let me tell you something. Alot of the people there are arguing with each other, cussing at each other, and acting very immature right now. So any flame war that happens here on this board is nothing compared to that board right now. This is JMO however.

-- Cammie (rmaelhorn@home.com), January 11, 2001.

I actually did see that the other day. I'm not a Titan fan, but I was just curious to see what people were saying about that game and I looked and I had never seen so many immature people before. No offence or anything. So yeah I have too seen worse flame wars at other places. Yes, this topic has gone way off topic but then again, what thread hasn't?

-- Andie (non@no.com), January 11, 2001.

Plenty...the ones in which people don't bring up off-topic stuff.

-- Cecelia (evilstoat@hotmail.com), January 11, 2001.