I would like to get a new M camera body for my new 90 APO. I already have a M6 .72 but was thinking that the higher magnification of the M6 .85 or a M3 would be helpful. I would prefer to leave the 35 Asph on my .72 more or less permantly and for use with the 50 occassionally.

I have always wanted an older model M, however the lack of an inbuilt meter is a concern. On the other hand I think I could get a nice M3 for about $1200 instead of a $1700 or so for a .85 classic or TTL.

Any suggestions. Thanks.

-- diane carter (dcarter@voyager.com), December 30, 2000

Answers

You can probably get a brand new grey-market M6HM from deltainternational.com for just a little over USD 1,500. At that price, new glass, a new viewfinder, an international warranty, not to mention a new meter should make any difference in price between a 40+ -year-old M3 and a new camera well worth paying. These days M3s are collectors cameras and are priced for collectors. If you are buying to shoot, buy new (except lenses). I have an M6HM and an APO-90 summicron ASPH. Great combination. No regrets.

-- Christopher Henry (henryjc@concentric.net), December 30, 2000.

Diane,

Here is something to consider... If you have two bodies which would be more or less dedicated to the lens that it would be "married" to, this means that you intend to use two bodies quite a bit. What happens when and if one of the bodies is out of service... for a repair or tune up? If the M6 is out of action, then the 35mm lens will be very inconvenient to use, since the M3 only goes to 50mm. Yes, you can use an external viewfinder, (do you have one?), or just frame without the correct viewfinder framelines, but you will definitely loose some ease of handling. I would prefer to have two cameras that are identical as far as lens use, so that either camera "A" or "B" could be used at anytime for any situation.

I, like a lot of users, started into the Leica system with the M3, but as nice as they are, I have been spoilt as a user by the loading, rewinding and metering of the M6. I believe the few hundred Dollars would be justifiable, if not for the extra features, then for the potential years of use left on the newer camera.

good Luck.

-- Al Smith (smith58@msn.com), December 30, 2000.

Although I am a die hard M3 fan, since you already have one version of the M6, the .85 camera will seem much more familiar to you than the M3 and would probably be your best bet. Finding and purchasing a really good M3 certainly takes more effort than buying a new camera. Having used both, however, I still find the finder in a freshly cleaned M3 to be easier to focus for both the 90 and 135mm lens than the new high mag M6. Less white out, less clutter, and slightly more magnification. By the way, the clip on meter from the M4 series cameras is a very accurate and gave me the exact same readings as the M6 ttl one when I tested it in various lighting conditions.

-- Andrew Schank (aschank@flash.net), December 30, 2000.

Like Al, I started into Leicas (this time around) with an M3. I had a 50 and a 90 for it and they worked wonderfully well. However, I craved a 35, and wouldn't settle for a bugeye model, so I bought an M4. That purchase reminded me how much I liked the loading of the later Leicas. A year of shooting reminded me of how useful an in-camera meter can be, so I bought an M6 .72, then an M6HM. My M3 and M4 were sold almost immediately, and I have never regretted it.

A .72 with a 35 and an HM with a 75 or 90 is a wonderful shooting combination. Also, when you need to, you can use your 35 on the .85 or your 90 on the .72. In terms of versatility the extra $500 is well spent on the .85. The M3 has its mystique, but I care more about pictures than history, and the M6HM is a far more competent camera. Plus, when the new Motor-M comes out, you just might like one on your M6HM/90 combo - and you can't do that with an M3.

-- Paul Chefurka (chefurka@home.com), December 30, 2000.

Thank you all for your helpful advice. I'll get a M6 HM, I don't wear glasses therefore I'll be able to use the 35 on it, in case my .72 body has to be serviced.

Happy New Year to everone. May 2001 bring many photographic joys to all of you.

-- diane carter (dcarter@voyager.com), December 31, 2000.

diane:

I have used an M3 for a long time and I really like the camera. Of course I bought it used in the 1980's when no one wanted them. I got a mint M3 and a 2 yr old 50 f2 [in the orginal boxes] for $500. The owner was just happy to finally find a buyer. I think that it was worth it. Do I think that the present prices reflect the value of the camera? No way. I would get the M6.

Art

-- Art (AKarr90975@aol.com), December 31, 2000.

I wasn't impressed with the 0.85 the first time I saw it and many subsequent experiences haven't changed that. The framelines are about 13% larger for each focal length, but that 13% represents a disappointingly small actual size increase with the 90 and 135 frames which is where it is needed the most, while making the 35 frame useless to glasses-wearers and eliminating the 28 frame altogether. The only reason I could see buying the 0.85 is if I were using a 75/1.4 or a Noctilux, and both of those lenses have coexisted nicely for decades with 0.72 Leicas. I have 2 M6 0.72's, an M4 and a Hexar RF and lenses through to the 135/3.4 APO-Telyt and I don't lament not having the 0.85 finder. A much better solution (for me) to the small- finder situation was purchasing some used 90 and 135 Leitz brightline finders, which show the view almost life-size and much brighter than the camera's finder.

-- Jay (infinitydt@aol.com), December 31, 2000.

Diane, I agree with those above who recommend the M6 over the M3, on the basis of compatibility with your 35mm lens. I had an m3 and sold it on account of the incompatibility with my 35mm lens. Presently I use an M2 and M6 combination. These are much more compatible.

Having said all that, I spotted a decent looking M3 during a visit to Olden Camera, in NYC, just last Thursday, Dec. 29th. for $900.00. I don't think you have to pay $1200.

Regards,

-- Bob Fleischman (RFXMAIL@prodigy.net), January 03, 2001.

I have an M4P (same brightlines as the M6 .72) and an M3, and I shoot three lenses - 35, 50 and 90.

I recently purchased the M6 .85 for the convenience of the meter and for longer lenses (50 & 90). I hated the brightlines in the .85 and returned the camera immediatly. The 50mm brightlines drove me crazy (they have a different pattern to the top and bottom framelines!).

If you can get your hands on an M3, try it with the 50mm for a week and then the 90mm. I have fantastic vision (20/10), but I still find the M3 with a 50mm the most comfortable conbination of body and lens. You can focus and shoot with both eyes open when feeling eye fatigue.

I beleive $1200 is far to much to pay for an M3, but if you can find a cheap one (any cheap one) buy it. You won't lose on the investment as you can always sell it down the road.

And, if anyone knows how to get an M3 window built into am M6, please let me know. :)

Also, you can pick up a Lieca CL with a beautiful Wertzler 40mm Summicron for less then the difference of the M6 vs. M3. This can be your backup for the 35mm on the M6 .72. If you shop around, you can't lose on this investment either. One note on the CL (I don't love it's bright

-- Warren Spicer (wspicer@metronews.com), January 05, 2001.