Last year at this time, I was making last minute preps for the big rollover...buying a few perishables, visiting with friends that live more than a long walk away, and doing a lot of talking with God. I felt confident that what we had accomplished was good enough, but still had some anxiety about being so close to populations centers.

I still have the official State Department Video that recorded history on what the Feds thought we should know. If I didn't have that as documentation, along with all the print material, and a host of bookmarked (now extinct) websites, I would think that I had just had a long, rather imaginative dream....

So what happened? Was it ever that scary? Who benefited from us having a mindset like that? Or was it really some millennial psychic hypnosis? How did all such smart people get so, I don't know the word...confused???

I am still pondering this in late 2000. And I am sure it will be pondered for years and years. What were YOU doing a year ago? How do you feel about our collective mindset? I am interested as we approach the real millennium!

-- sheepish (rborgo@gte.net), December 26, 2000

Answers

We were stashing the food that we could, and I (the family worry- wart; Hubby says he doesn't need to worry about anything, that I do it enough for the both of us!) was worried sick. But by this point last year we decided we had done enough, and that it had to be in God's hands. There was a Y2k store locally, and we got a few extra odds 'n ends (we still use the water jugs we bought on clearance, that Dec. 30th), and went to church that new Years Eve for watch night service. We had a pitch in after service, and I kept expecting the lights to go out (we had flashlights in the car, just in case!), but they stayed lit! And the next morning, there was water and electricity!!!! But the whole thing got me gardening again, and we got our chickens, and got my mindset changed....from a day to day sort of person, to one that is thinking about the future a bit...and thinking about the possibility that times might not always be so good. There might be the need to raise more of our own food, medicine, etc. later on. So---for that I am thankful to Y2k!!!

-- Leann Banta (thelionandlamb@hotmail.com), December 26, 2000.

For an alternative (humorous) view, see my post on the new endangered species act.

-- Soni (thomkilroy@hotmail.com), December 26, 2000.

There are several reasons I'm glad that the Y2K scare happened. A lot of people that never kept more than that weeks groceries in their home took a long look at what was needed to live. Those people probably gave most of their Y2K supplies to others or sold them or something but maybe...just maybe they are a bit more aware now. Maybe it made folks a bit more aware of how fragile our lifestyle,economy etc really are. On a personal note....I had been wanting to become more self sufficient including a larger food storage system. This was just the excuse I needed to get hubby to go along with it. Now I enjoy grinding my own flour and cornmeal which I had never done previously. Y2K was a crisis with a deadline (which fortunately didn't happen)....how many crisis's will we experience that don't have a deadline?

-- Amanda in Mo (aseley@townsqr.com), December 26, 2000.

So many times I think of all the preperation that I did for Y2K. I too, have all kinds of literture and books about the end of the world. I fell hard and even had workshops for local churches. What was it all about? I have asked that question to myself for the whole year. Why did I buy so completely into the notion that we would had to be completley self suffient? I don't think I will ever know, I do remember the anxiety that night before. I couldn't go to sleep and how I cried when the lights didn't go out. I didn't cry because we didn't crash, I cried because I was such a fool and all the people who were "right", would say " I told you so". Oh well, I moved to 12 acres in the country with NO neighboors and have chickens, goats, dogs and a whopping garden. I have a great husband who supports my now efforts to be a homesteader and we live a Godly life all due to the eye opener that Y2K was. NO regrets, just confusion and some embarrassment. :( Karole

-- karole (Biz3boymom@aol.com), December 26, 2000.

Well,I don't know about you, but 2000 was in my top 10 bad years!

So i guess I didn't know the difference!

-- sharon wt (wildflower@ekyol.com), December 26, 2000.

Sheepish, Sad to say, we never experienced any "willies" about it to speak of. I guess it comes from living in a rural setting. The only 4 things I can truly say we got in preperation for Y2K was a pitcher pump in case our electric one couldn,t be used, an extra 100 gal of K1 for our kerosene lamps, a one year subscription to Countryside and a book titled "Y2K Survival Guide" (what a waste that was,especially after reading a couple issues of Countryside). The book by the way still sits on our bookshelf as a reminder of how so many forget common sense. The only thing I really remember vividly about our "preperations" was looking at our food and fuel stores on New Years Eve, grabbing my copy of Countryside and going to read in bed about 9 p.m. I wasn't even online then, only had a 286 loaded with wordperfect.

-- Jay Blair in N. AL (jayblair678@yahoo.com), December 26, 2000.

Jay, I think the computer stuff is the big reason (and no! Not the way it was supposed to be: i.e: the failure of systems!!) I think so much of the Y2k phenomenon was related to internet communication. Because it was so instant and because there was SO much information, online conversation became a manifestation of our very psyches. I spent 19 months online doing a lot of "research," for example. I learned A LOT! And I had already been living in the country for a number of years and knew some country and survival skills.

I tend to think that we (collective "we") all wanted to BELIEVE that we could go back to some simple, albeit more difficult lifestyle. So we reinforced it over and over again....Anyone else lean toward this reflection?

I also think that it was wonderful to get people to think, and in many cases, to mobilize toward more self-sufficiency. That was very positive!

-- sheepish (rborgo@gte.net), December 26, 2000.

At the risk of repeating myself.....all of that wonderful stockpiled food left us with plenty of money to purchase much needed, overpriced fuel oil and gasoline. The reality of how fragile our economy is, has changed our way of life. This year, we have 5X the amount of wood split and stacked....boy am I glad! Baby, it's COLD outside! We replenished the pantry, with every 'super sale', spending just a few dollars every week, but it sure adds up. I started canning again, staying up half the night to get those damn fresh veggies done. All was well, and we were way, way ahead of the game when, WHAM! I lost my job. So now things are a little tight, but we have little to worry about on the food/fuel front.

-- Kathy (catfish@bestweb.net), December 26, 2000.

We weren't sure if it would happen or not, but reasoned that it couldn't hurt to be prepared in case it did. We always stock up for winter anyway, as work is harder to find then. We are still eating that food- I'm glad we have it!

I don't think it was paranoia to think that it could happen. Our counrty's balance and lifestyle could still be impacted by very small disaster. The smart ones of us knew that! Frankly, at times I wish it had happened. It bothers me to see how complacent so many Americans are, watching the news, the disasters and heartache that is going on in so many other countries, yet thinking it'll never happen to us. It would have done us a lot of good to have a dose of reality.

-- Rebekah (daniel1@itss.net), December 26, 2000.

Sheepish, I think that a lot of the worry came from the realization of how reliant so much of the country and world are on the use of computers. And yes, I do think that the Internet had a hand in it, in the way that you mentioned.

I was very worried about Y2K problems. The very worst worry was my tropical birds and no heat, as they would have suffered greatly, if not died outright. I am committed to them for their lives, but I won't be replacing them when they die. I had 14 of them at that time, and I couldn't put them all together as they are different species.

I haven't been a "stocker" on the same level as many here, but if it's something I use a lot, I like to keep plenty on hand. Makes life so much easier!

-- Joy Froelich (dragnfly@chorus.net), December 26, 2000.

I was filling my water tank with last minute rural water....making sure that everything worked the way it was supposed and talking to God. I received a lot of ribbing from people saying that I was soooo disappointed when the lights were still on and the old world continued to wobble on in the wrong direction, etc., but I really wasn't upset it didn't all blink out. I still have trepidation about the scenario of either an economic or societal collapse. I just don't have the desire to cap anyone....I would if I had to, but I truly wouldn't like to do it.

What happened is that a lot of work was done that prevented a serious failure. The problem was addressed and somehow it was mostly fixed. Who benefitted???? hmmmm. Most likely the folks that sold prepartion supplies and the people who took a look at their life and made a decision to be less at the mercy of such a fragile economic system.

I am sure that some people felt lied to about the situation and will now not keep themselves prepared, nor heed any warnings that might be given regarding economic or power problems. I know several of these people. I actually think that is where the majority lie in the "collective mindset". The roof didn't fall in last year so it never will.

Personally, I don't see how we can continue to sustain this system we have in this country for very long. I have been wrong in the past, though! The economy is all a falsehood and reality is held at bay by any number of things....entertainment comes to mind...but who knows how long this will continue? There are some of us who just want it to blow up so we can have a more reality based society....but again, who knows how long we will continue to wobble along?

-- Doreen (animalwaitress@excite.com), December 26, 2000.

I was going to stay out of this. Really I was. I may be sorry I didn't but here it goes.

Doreen said "What happened is that a lot of work was done that prevented a serious failure. The problem was addressed and somehow it was mostly fixed." Sorry Doreen, but no, there never was a Y2K problem to fix. Many companies spent a fortune looking for problems that weren't there. I was a professional programmer since the mid-80's, in one form or other, and none of the programers I know ever found any thing worse than a program that printed dates as 19100, or some other silly printing error.

There were a few people who drove the whole panic for their own ends. One is a dinosaur of a programmer who so it as his last hurrah. An other was a religious zealot who claimed no great skills in computers and who had been looking for a reason for civilization to end for decades,--so he could rebuild a better society where adulterous woman would be publicly stoned. Every body else who was hyping Y2K either new nothing about computers, but had a friend with a cousin who's brother worked at a bank or power company who was hoarding food in panic, or were hyping Y2K to making big bucks. Tell me, if the world is going to end in a few months, why bother doubling, or more, the price of things you couldn't have sold a year earlier?

There are a couple of good reasons why the hype worked so well. One is people tend to fear things they don't understand, and for many people that includes computers. Yes, they may use them every day, their lives and maybe their jobs depend on them. But the average bank teller, secretary or doctor does not have much of an idea on what goes on inside the box. People wanted, probably subconsciously, an excuse to not like these things. It became very easy to ignore those of us who have worked with them for years and to follow a few zealots with torches. Simply put, a mob mentality took over and many people wanted to raid the castle and burn the monsters.

The worst part is, as others here have said, that many of the people who did prepare for Y2K prepared _only_ for Y2K and are not maintaining their preparations for any less well seen problems in the future.

==>paul, I did tell you so.

-- paul (p@ledgewood-consulting.com), December 26, 2000.

Paul, what about the sewage spills in LA when they rolled the dates forward to check their systems? That isn't exactly nothing. I never pretended to have any computer programming knowledge at all, and I was headed in this direction for years already, it just gave me a little impetus to get it together a bit sooner. Yet I did ease up on things this year because the chasing a living thing gets in the way sometimes...I think most people have lapses in vigilance on occasion.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge on it, I don't think you should be reticent. Obviously, you know a lot more about it than I do!

-- Doreen (animalwaitress@excite.com), December 26, 2000.

Paul, you are correct and have presented a very good description of the event. As Shakespeare said "Much ado about nothing." When a rumor about computers is propagated by people that do not have the technical knowledge to understand the problem, but instead rely upon beliefs we get Y2K. Very few, mostly process control, some military, and some financial systems actually use the date for internal events.

-- JLS in NW AZ (stalkingbull007@AOL.com), December 26, 2000.

In retrospect, I'm glad that nothing really serious happened with Y2K, although we didn't do a lot of undo preparations that we wouldn't have already done anyway, just because YOU NEVER KNOW what is going to happen, and when those items will come in handy. Not many of us can predict a blizzard, month long power outages (yes, they did have one of those here in Colorado about 20 years ago)injuries that keep you from working, but aren't covered by disability insurance, etc. We lived in Spokane, Washington when Mt St Helens erupted, and we were the only family around that had milk, and extra cloth that could be used for diapers, etc. We ended up sharing what we could with those families who needed things like that, but I doubt to this day, that any of them keep any extra supplies on hand for emergencies. Seems like every place we have lived, there has either been an earthquake, tornado, hurricane, volcanic eruption, blizzard, etc. If we didn't stockpile what we could, and live as self sufficiently as we do, there are many times we couldn't have made it through. I'm not sorry we did what we always do, and prepared. I was more worried about elderly parents who live in a small travel trailer, with no storage facilities, etc. There was no doubt a lot of unneeded hype, and some who made fortunes off of Y2K, but we all learned a lot from it. Jan

-- Jan in Colorado (Janice12@aol.com), December 26, 2000.

Just thought I'd mention that a lot of folks preparations for Y2K wasn't storing food....it was buying ammunition and guns. Since I was married to a gunsmith (he was good enough to get guns from as far away as wyoming sent to him for repair) I saw and heard a lot of what was being said in the months leading up to 2000. We had our home phone # unlisted or we'd have never gotten a break. When people couldn't call us since they didn't have the number they would find out where we lived and 'drop by'. The gun shop was so busy with people looking for high power weapons that he couldn't get much repair work done. A lot of these folks were just wanting to make sure that they could protect what was theirs, but some of them figured "as long as I have a gun I won't go hungry". In other words they would take what they needed to survive. In this age of casual violence and focusing on #1 if we have a disaster/recession etc the attitude those people had might be an indicater of things to come. This may be one of the more valuable lessons of Y2K.....the character of our fellow man. Think about how different people around you that thought IT might happen reacted. It probably wasn't in a very calm productive manner.

-- Amanda in Mo (aseley@townsqr.com), December 27, 2000.

Sheepish, glad you asked that question. It's time we talked about it. I was never, before or after, embarrassed about my preparations. I was in good company - I don't think all those corporations, agencies, governments that were spending hundreds of millions of dollars to prepare were just naive victims of wild rumors and mob mentality. On the other hand, it was apparently less of a problem than many people believed. Otherwise we would have seen big trouble in those countries that didn't prepare. Like many others, my preparations consisted of buying and doing things that were on my list anyway.

It was a great learning experience for me, a guy who had considered himself pretty sophisticated about how the world works. I really hadn't thought that much (in recent years) about what a fragile system we've built. And maybe the most interesting thing to me was how people I know reacted. NO ONE would admit to being concerned, though friends would ask me about how to get water out of a small diameter well without a pump, etc., etc. And all the while that our government was building command centers and the military was making contingency plans, we were being flooded with "don't prepare" propaganda. I think what made it most real for me was the panicky looks on the faces of bankers trying to calm people who were already calm.

I can imagine the same sort of computer-destruction disaster being caused by a virus (yes, experts, more sophisticated than we know about now) or the EMP from a nuclear blast, or who knows what. The people who pooh-pooh such ideas are living on wishful thinking. They would rather be dead than feel embarrassed because they've been "suckered".

Save those y2k books, videos, etc.! They should become real collectors' items.

-- Sam in W.Va. (turnip55a@yahoo.com), December 27, 2000.

Warning: long....

Actually, I was working in systems at the time I became aware of the problem, so I had sort of a perspective on it, as well. No, I wasn't writing code, but I did work with a team designing and implementing a new system for a large corporation. My job was primarily gathering requirements, submitting them to the IS department and working with the team of programmers to get the programs written. Then I would write test plans, do unit and user acceptance testing, go through the implementation process and train the users, (not necessarily in that order, though! Not trying to bore anyone here, just giving some details) This was not specifically for the programs to become compliant for Y2k, but they did incorporate those requirements.

Our team was 4 years behind schedule (!), even with good programmers (I was, frankly, very wet behind the ears, which contributed to my skew I'm sure. I couldn't believe the wasted money, not to mention the inconvenience to the users. But others with a lot of experience shared my viewpoint.) Every project hit some kind of political stumbling block or two or twelve, before we achieved any kind of milestone. My experience with these projects led me to be very cynical about the quality of programming being done (elsewhere, by extrapolation)and concern about the ability to fix stuff.

I began to believe that serious Y2k problems could happen.

I also wanted to believe that the world could change for the better if it experienced a little shake-up (this was bobbing on my consciousness off and on.)

I also thought that the "leaders," legitimate or not, from the Feds, to the Yourdons, Hamasakis, even Gary North, must know more than I did. Our local congressional representatives even held a town hall meeting with the public and the National Guard last January, discussing the situation. The Emergency Preparedness Folk were there, etc. Seems like a dream! What did they know, they who had the privileged information???

I also wanted to speed up my "self-sufficiency" schedule. I also found products available in the marketplace that I never even knew existed, and I wanted them! I had a great excuse to get them!

Now I think Y2k, The Phenomenon, was a combination of so many things: Old big iron programmers having a last hurrah; geeks letting the old programmers have a last laugh; politicians trying to cover their butts; cottage industry folks seeing a chance to finally make a buck; religious leaders getting their chance at fame; the usual book- sellers getting their piece of the pie; the self-sufficiency bent getting a chance to justify their philosophy; precious metals dealers getting premium pricing, etc. Curiously, I thought the media were rather shy about the whole situation (unless you consider that there is so little independent reporting going on any more. Seems ironic!)

One last comment before I get another cup of coffee: Interestingly enough, there was quite a polarity amongst the populace...kind of like the emotions we just experienced during the recent elections. Discussing whether one was preparing or not was one way to start an argument or ruin a dinner with friends! What's up with that?!! Guess we all like a little controversy!

-- sheepish (rborgo@gte.net), December 27, 2000.

So I'm curious here, Sheepish, and I have no ax to grind. I just think the whole Phenomenon is interesting from so many angles. Are you saying that today you think the big financial corporations, military, etc. were being gullible or overreacting or something? I confess I thought Citicorp and the U.S. Navy surely knew a lot more about this than I did, and I should watch their behavior to decide if this thing was to be taken seriously.

-- Sam in W.Va. (turnip55a@yahoo.com), December 27, 2000.

WHAT Y2K DID FOR ME:

If nothing else, it solidified my viewpoint on self sufficiency. I had always vaguely wanted to do something or another like homesteading, but it was very vague and very tenuous. The Y2K issue forced me to take a long hard look at my situation, and the more we prepared, the more I found myself feeling like this was the direction I wanted to go, disaster or not. As far as the disatster part goes, I was always telling friends that I had never been more hopeful that I was wasting my time, but that if I wasn't I would be ready, or at least as ready as finances and short notice (1 year of serious planning) would allow. Now that the lights are still on and the economy still humming along, I find myself less anxious about the future. Should anything go wrong, I am ready to meet that challenge. In the meantime, with the help of Countryside and y'all, we are finally heading in the direction of home.

-- Soni (thomkilroy@hotmail.com), December 27, 2000.

Sam, no, I think we must have somehow got lucky! Or else, the programmers were just pulling the wool over our eyes. But I can't imagine that either. Or that a "smaller" problem got exaggerated. Or perhaps Providence intervened. I still don't get it. I really don't. Something was real, that's for sure. But what?

I don't have the "answer." I think the situation was probably exacerbated by the factors that I mentioned. Something begat something which begat something else, etc. And this perspective is only in retrospect, btw. And I wanted to discuss this b/c I am still perplexed.

-- sheepish (rborgo@gte.net), December 27, 2000.

Sam, addendum: I guess there's the Y2k programming issue as one thing to think about. Then there's the whole Y2k as a social issue (Phenomenon I guess) to think about. They are intertwined, and I can't get my arms around them both at the same time.

-- sheepish (rborgo@gte.net), December 27, 2000.

The y2k hype forced us to look at our homestead operation in a new light. We evaluated every aspect of what we were doing, from food storage, to energy dependence and made a lot of changes that have been benefical in the long run. We cut our goat herd back to a level that could be sustained with what we could grow here, we had gotten too big which is easy to do when you are trying to develop milk, show and meat lines. Our rabbit herd had gotten too big, as well as having a lot of chickens around that were not really producing. We got lean and have not been sorry. Less chores, less feed cost, better production overall. The real shocker to me was how well prepared we were in a lot of areas just because we wanted to be self sufficient. The down side was seeing how much energy on the grid and petro we were using. I was really never sure the y2k would be an event, and was actually disappointed when it was not. I have mentioned before I had hoped y2k would be a respite from the over consumption I was seeing around me. A year ago I was sitting by the fire knitting and hoping everyone was prepared and would not panic if it was a real thing. I accidently went out a couple days before the New Year because I needed a box of 40 watt light bulbs for a night light. I was shocked at the lines of people buying stuff that you knew was just because they were afraid. I thought it was sad. I still believe we all were getting ready for something. We just thought it was y2k. It isn't over yet.

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), December 27, 2000.

Y2k made us realize how far we are from being independent,it helped us set goals more along those lines and gave us a better feel for what we need to do. I kinda wish it would have happened , I would have gotten a kick out of seeing who showed up at our house!

-- renee oneill{md.} (oneillsr@home.com), December 27, 2000.

Doreen asked about the sludge that got dumped during Y2K testing. I remember it happening, but I don't recall ever hearing what caused the failure. I suspect (though it's purely speculation) that it may have been a similar case to the testers getting locked out during testing for one of the auto manufacturers in Detroit. The press had a field day about the security system locking up due to Y2K failures. It turns out the system was set up to automatically expire passwords that hadn't changes in a certain period of time. Setting the clock ahead expired all of the tester's passwords.

Another Y2K failure that didn't really happen was one manufacturer of lab equipment sent a letter to its customers saying setting the date ahead for Y2K testing could void the warrantee or service agreement. Many people assumed this meant the equipment was know to fail for Y2K problems. In reality each piece of equipment knew the date and when it's warrantee expired. Setting the clock past the expiration disabled the automatic dialing of the company to report the machines status--as required for the warrantee.

One of the biggest reasons the panic spread is that anybody who said there wasn't a problem was seen to either be ignorant or covering it up. I was accused of covering it up and lying when I said I had spent 10 years, in part, developing imbedded systems for the government and I was sure if there had been a real problem, it would have been known and fixed. You just don't let such a minor problem bring down mission-critical systems.

This refusing to listen to people who said there wasn't a major problem extended to business and industry. There was one guy on the net that repeated in several forums and lists that he switched banks because his ignorant, head-in-the-sand bank's tellers couldn't tell him exactly what problems they expected and when they would be fixed. No suppose you are a bank manager and you catch wind of people saying things like that and that you are personally not familiar with programing. Would you spend a large portion of your budget just to prove to your customers that you were on top of things? It became very bad PR to say there was no Y2K problem.

I suspect that future historians will study Y2K as one of the most interesting propaganda programs of all time. It was so powerful that there are people out there wondering if the real problem will occur on 1/1/2001 since that's really the start of the new millennium. ==>paul

-- paul (p@ledgewood-consulting.com), December 27, 2000.

You know, it wasn't all hype. My husband's medical insurance company went out of business b/c they weren't Y2k compliant and their data got totally messed up at rollover. The company is bankrupt, and the insurance company's insurance company (what a concept) is struggling with all of this still. The whole thing is still pending before the Attorney General's office. In the meantime, my husband keeps getting billed for knee surgery he had last March. It's nuts! There are real events that can be traced directly to companies not doing their homework.

So whether or not there was risk to the whole planet or whether or not there was risk to a few maybe close-to-insolvent companies is another question I guess. But I do know at least one programmer who enjoyed his 80 hour work-weeks while making serious money for a couple of years. He always said that there was never a Y2k problem (he worked for a major financial entity) but he sure liked those big paychecks!

-- sheepish (rborgo@gte.net), December 28, 2000.

I, too, know local companies whose computerized records were totally messed up after the first of the year. As for Paul's examples of y2k problems that were only caused by testers setting the clocks forward, don't you think similar problems might have occurred when y2k set the clocks back a hundred years?

There are many questions about this thing I would like to find answers for, the "social" ones most interesting to me. For example, I find it curious that we haven't seen articles analyzing y2k in every magazine we pick up. The social questions have so much broader application than the technical ones.

-- Sam in W.Va. (turnip55a@yahoo.com), December 28, 2000.

paul, I believe you are correct. The future histories you mentioned should start appearing the end of 2001 or early 2002. It usually takes a year or two to write and publish books on the "history" of a major event. The real analysis will come in a second wave of books somewhat later.

-- JLS in NW AZ (stalkingbull007@AOL.com), December 28, 2000.

Sheepish and Sam, Can you name the companies that went bankrupt from Y2K problems. Yes there were some problems, but all of the ones I know of were very minor and easily fixed or worked around.

If a company went under because their database got trashed by a Y2K bug, they had to have had plenty of other problems. If they had a backup of the dataset, they could have hired somebody to write a new interface program, or simply set the clock back prior to Y2K and limped along while waiting for the program to be re-written.

==>paul

-- paul (p@ledgewood-consulting.com), December 28, 2000.

Paul, yes, I will email you separately.

To clarify something: I should have indicated in my last post "It wasn't ALL hype." That would have stated my thought better, btw.

As I said, though, the question about whether there were possibilities for worldwide problems to companies, or for just those companies that were close to insolvency (or to that effect) is another question.

I think that since most companies were able to get their ducks in a row in time suggests that this particular company did not perform due diligence. So it smacks of some previously existing problem (i.e.: underfunded for IS projects, or else negligent, or suspiciously b/c it's an insurance company in the medical field, who knows??) But they still didn't do it right. What defines a Y2k problem? Trying and failing? Or not trying at all b/c the company is having other problems? Still technically a Y2k problem, I think, as long as it's based on data not correctly migrating.

However, I think my original premise that there COULD be serious Y2k problems wasn't that the technical corrections could NOT be made (nor work-arounds) but rather that since the projects (that I was working on and others by extrapolation) were always politically (or for some other reason) delayed, why would other companies or governments not be creating the same delays? (<===I think there's the flaw in my original reasoning, don't you? Extrapolating from one example and basing my assumption that we are all in trouble b/c MY company was slug-like and incompetent on these projects.) Of course, I'm not entirely stupid...on top of that, I was supporting my assumption by reading all the rest of the stuff on the net from various programmers and techies who provided information that supported my thinking.

See, I can understand why *I* was prepared to believe that there could be serious technical problems, etc., but I still cannot understand how programmers (who one would think ought to know: Yourdon, Hamasaki, others), and government leaders (who we hope have a clue!) were prepared to believe that there would be serious Y2k problems, too. Therein is the reason why I can't understand the programming part and the social Phenomenon part at the same time, I guess. If you can help me understand that part, I would be grateful.

Anyway, I'll get that name for you.

-- sheepish (rborgo@gte.net), December 28, 2000.

btw, there is an entire Greenspun LUSENET Forum (GICC: Grassroots Information Coordinating Center)that has tracked various incidents for the entire year. I haven't followed it, so I can't speak to what information has been reported. But anyone can go over there and surf around.

I found this one Year 2000 recap interesting:

http://hv.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=004J6U

fwiw....

-- sheepish (rborgo@gte.net), December 28, 2000.

Sheepish,

One, there was a lot of 'momentum' in '99 sugesting there was going to be a big problem over Y2K. I don't really blame individuals for jumping on the bandwagon. Well, I guess I sort of do blame the ones that kept spreading the word and ignored or criticized those who tried to say anything about society not falling apart. If you don't know the facts, do what you want but don't spread the panic. Those that thought there might be a problem and took the cautious aproach and prepared to some extent probably did the right thing. Trying to convince the rest of the populace that they were stupid for not doing the same thing was a bit much.

Two: There were some genuine Y2K problems, but most were minor and non would have had a significant impact on an other-wise well run company. Even without all the panic and billions spent. I can't point to a peer-reviewed technical paper, but many programmers I know feel that the rush to rewrite so much code probably introduced more bugs than were fixed. Many companies took "Y2K compliant" to mean dates were never stored as two digets, even if it made no difference. That cause some good programs to be rewritten in a hurry and poorly tested before replacing the old ones.

==>paul

-- paul (p@ledgewood-consulting.com), December 28, 2000.

Sheepish, As many have said, it was a good thing to happen/not happen. I saw so many computer programmers that "just didn't know". The big changes for me have come since. I now pursue "self sufficiency" moreso than I did, keeping my brains working and I try to concentrate more on downreved technology until I understand its workings, before using the latest bells and whistles that just came out. This not only gives me a better understanding of the technology I use, but also saves a little money.

-- Jay Blair in N. AL (jayblair678@yahoo.com), December 28, 2000.

Thanks for your thoughtful replies.

And if anyone wants to chew on this part: Why were some of us interested in embracing the concept of hard times to come, and why were others similarly interested in nothing happening? (Doomers and Polys.) I think just from reading some threads on this Forum that people would welcome a retreat to "harder" times, just to make some sense in the world (I was going to write "sense *out* of the world! Maybe that's more to the point?) What would the world look like right now, if the worst had happened?

Any armchair sociologists out there? Or futurists?

-- sheepish (rborgo@gte.net), December 29, 2000.

Sheepish, I think it needs to be a carryover thread to continue. I would say that all of us seem to be armchair sociologists to some degree. Perhaps that is part of the reason we all are interested in self reliance to begin with? or maybe at all.....

-- Doreen (animalwaitress@excite.com), December 29, 2000.

Sheepish, I am with Doreen. Start another thread with you question above. INTERESTING stuff...

-- Leann Banta (thelionandlamb@hotmail.com), December 29, 2000.

Okay, I'll start a new thread. Good idea. Thx.

-- sheepish (rborgo@gte.net), December 30, 2000.

I don't think Y2k was a bust at all. If there had not been so much attention brought to this computer issue there would not have been the herculean effort made to make sure nothing happened. Companies and the government spent millions of dollars upgrading their software to avoid the disaster. If that had not happened who knows what state we would have been in by this time. It is interesting to see how some people pooh-pooh the issue just because it didn't happen and yet they have no idea how bad it could have been had not all the work and effort been done to avoid the problems. As stated by many on this forum, it was a great thing for me because I did a lot of things to prepare which I eventually would have done anyway like wiring up a generator so we could have backup and building a greenhouse. These were in my long-term plans, they just became a short-term plan. The peace of mind I have now when winter is coming, knowing I don't have to worry about ice storms any more is well worth the work and money spent. It has also sparked me to move faster on completing my homestead plans in general. I realize that I can dawdle along and keep dreaming or I can take action and actually get some things done. I'm very thankful we had the Y2k scare.

-- Colleen (pyramidgreatdanes@erols.com), December 30, 2000.

This is mainly for Paul and JLS (talkingbull, I call him....tee heeheee) I just wondered what your take on this scenario below was?

Last year at this time, we were all waiting nervously to see if Y2K computer problems were going to cause our bank balances to disappear, our computers to self-destruct, and air planes to fall from the sky. We were afraid we might be without electricity and telephones for an extended period of time. When 2000 arrived with no disasters, we began to think all our fears were for nothing.

But it turns out it was a major crisis after all, one that we managed to fix just in time by throwing $200 million dollars at the problem. "It showed that we can, if we put the resources to it, solve tough global problems of our making," said Bruce McConnell, who directed the international Y2K effort. "It was a great story of cooperation and hard work. It was expensive but it was successful."

For those who have forgotten, Y2K stands for "Year 2000," and was the name given to the problems caused by computer manufacturers decades ago, who acted as if the year 2000 would never come, since they decided to use only two digits to represent the year. This resulted in a short-term savings of computer memory, at a time when memory capacity was much smaller than it is today, but it also meant that computers were programmed to think that the upcoming year 2000 would actually be 1900.

As the new year dawned, Y2K watchers nervously checked to see if experts had managed to reprogram enough computers to avoid a worldwide disaster, and for the most part, their efforts worked. It seemed like "just another day" to those of us living in Europe and the United States, so we wrongly assumed there had never been a real problem in the first place.

"It’s like saying to a surgeon after he conducts a major intrusive operation that because the patient’s fine, it’s not a big deal," said Harris Miller, president of the Information Technology Association of America. "Problems did occur, and the fact that it was so minimal means that people did a good job."

There were some failures. The computers that process images from U.S. spy satellites broke down. Japanese nuclear reactors experienced problems, but no radiation leaks. Some people’s credit cards billed them multiple times for the same purchases. Leon Kappelman, a Y2K expert from the University of North Texas, said that an unnamed major telecommunications company almost went down, but was able to keep their problems a secret and fix them before customers found out about it.

Another, smaller Y2K crisis will arrive on December 31 of this year, when computers that only have 365 day calendar years will have to deal with the fact that 2000 is a leap year. These computers will think that the 366th day of the year, December 31, is actually the first day of 2001. This isn’t expected to cause major problems, however.

While some companies have invested in entire new computing systems, most firms have gone for the quick fix. Dale Way, a Y2K consultant with the Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers, says that a common solution has been to trick computers into thinking that the year 2000 is 30 years from now, in order to buy time. "We dodged a bullet," Way said, "But lasting fixes will not be easy to implement…When you look at this infrastructure, it is highly uncertain and it breaks all the time."

It sounds like the Y2K crisis hasn’t really gone away, but may return to haunt us again in the future.

http://abcnews.go.com/ sections/scitech/DailyNews/y2kplusone001226.html

-- Doreen (animalwaitress@excite.com), December 31, 2000.

I am grateful for Y2k...

It caused us to take a good look at what we had and what we needed to survive.

I thank Almighty God that it didn't occur the way it was predicted as we were not prepared correctly. We wouldn't have had enough food or gasoline to last six months, even though I thought I had thought it all out.

With the looming (possible, but probable) recession, I am going to stock up again each week. My garden will be a bit bigger and we will be replacing the cow we ate. We have goats, but I am not too thrilled with goat milk, altho...considering the price of hay to feed a cow versus a goat, I may change my mind (thinking out loud)!

We will get a few more chickens and four pigs for slaughter next fall. One pig is not enough for a family of three adults and a child. And we will start that underground food shelter.

We did get water in, pumped in from our creek and that is working well. And we have propane in for the winter.

I guess I'm rambling, but even though I have much faith in God, I wish I was better prepared. And I wish my dh could work! He's legally blind and I am disabled. So, doing all this on less than a $1000 a month is tough! Son finally secured a job two weeks ago, but he wants to move out. Well, we'll see what's up soon.

To all my Countryside fellow readers...

HAPPY NEW YEAR!!

Idaho Cher

-- Cher Rovang (fullcircle@nidlink.com), January 01, 2001.

Doreen,

Name one car, airplain, toaster, VCR, microwave oven or ATM machine that was recalled and fixed or died on 1/1/2000. All of those fears people had that everything with an embedded computer in them would die just didn't happen and never would have. The mainframe systems running banks and nuclear missals never had any significant problem either. It was not that all of these insurmountable probles miraculously got fixed in time, THEY NEVER EXISTED, at least not to 0.01% of what was hyped. If there had never been a line of code change, the total amount of non-functioning computers wouldn't have made the headlines.

==>paul

-- paul (p@ledgewood-consulting.com), January 01, 2001.

Paul, I can't name a single one. I just wanted to see what you thought about this article. Would it be fair to surmise that you think this is more of the same "much ado about nothing"? I don't know how computers work...at all! I thought that you might like to see this article considering your take on this. Do you think that a larger threat to the computer "realm" would be a virus of some sort, or do you think that any kind of mass failures are not really possible? as I said, I don't understand computers and really don't have the kind of talents that would make it useful for me to learn. Despite my smart alecky nature, I do appreciate the insights of people who have actual knowledge about these things!

-- Doreen (animalwaitress@excite.com), January 01, 2001.