This was already touched on in another thread, but I think it deserves it's own header. I don't know exactly what to say about this except that this picture blew my mind....... That's right just blew it right out like it hasn't been since I first saw Peter Chung's work. Maybe it was just the mood I was in, or maybe it was the audience I happened to see it with, they got up and cheered after each fight sequence, I love seeing a movie with an audience like that, they all stayed for the credits .. applauded film maker Ang Lee, composer Yo Yo Ma, and legendary Kung Fu choreographer Yuen Wo Ping (the Matrix) and the the cast who's performance was flawless. It's an epic legendary story with backdrops so lush my wife said she felt like she was in a trance. If hollywood had done this it would have been the same baby formula star wars rip off contrivance they always shove down our throats as an epic. I love that it's in Chinese, it's not bogged down with a lot of dialog so it's very easy to follow even with sub titles. Anyway thanks for letting me babble on, maybe I'm crazy, go see it yourself and let me know... The web sit is:

-- Sean "Overemotional" Merli (, December 20, 2000


Checked it out, certainly does seem to have good photography. The fact that the choreographer is the same as the one who did the Matrix is very interesting. Btw, the center pic of the the young chinese girl happens to look like my dear departed cousin, Edna. I have always loved Chinese anything, because of my Aunt Monlon and cousin Edna. Monlon, pronounced Moonlon means "dreaming of orchids", how do you like that for lovely? So, yeah, will see it, thanks for this little tidbit.

-- Barb e. (, December 21, 2000.

Been meaning to see this one, actually. I like Kung Fu movies so long as the fighting is interesting and the plot is somewhat non-formulaic and there are lots of shiny things and loud noises to keep me entralled like the superficial sucker I have become. Now I find myself not merely tempted but lured. The fact that it's coreographed by the same guy who did The Matix kinda puts me off, as I didn't much like the action in that movie. Kung Fu should be done by Kung Fu blackbelts, not computers.

-- Frosty the Snow Chick (, December 29, 2000.

Hmm, actually I can see you're point about the Kung Fu vs Matrixian oversight of choreography, (trying to sound intelligent here), yet I thought the action in the Matrix was what I would call 'crisp'. What I liked about the Matrix is it felt a little like Aeon and a little like the Maxx, with the city scapes like NYC.

-- Barb e. (, December 30, 2000.

Well, I saw it this Xmas, and was blown away. Frostbite, if you like Chinese Kung Fu flicks, Crouching Tiger is a must, must see. No computer effects, just great cinematography, great acting, and fights up the Yin-Yang. Possibly the best martial arts movie since Enter The Dragon. I know it's one of the best things I've seen lately, along with Unbreakable and Nagisa Oshima's "Taboo".

-- Paul (, December 30, 2000.

Matrix just plain didn't work as an action film. Keanu Reeves limbo-ing through bullets has to be one of the stupidest scenes ever committed to celluloid.

-- Paul (, December 30, 2000.

The problem I have with "The Matrix" and other movies like it is that violence becomes an art, something appealing to the eye, a frivolity. Not to say that there can be something beautiful and visually interesting about that, but I also think it can be a very dangerous thing. If I ever depict violence in a film, I'll be sure to contrast pretty violence and frighteningly realistic violence, in order to prove the former to be a purely artificial concept. To be honest, when I first saw Aeon Flux at the age of 12, I was seduced partly by the slick, elegant and violent movement of its characters, and at that young age, I didn't yet understand the anti-violence stance it ultimately carried. Since then, I've been analyzing the use of violence in films, and I've found that violence can be depicted in one of three ways: completely realistic to the point of horrifying the audience, completely unrealistic to the point of seducing the audience, or somewhere in between. This last one is the worst, something old TV shows and movies used to do all the time up until recently; usually the violence would be sterilized to the point of being neither interesting nor frightening - it's just there. Shows like "Star Trek" still do this sort of thing.

Anyway, back to "The Matrix". I liked it and similar action movies (if only because they appeal to the visceral, media-fed side of me that wants to be a deadly assassin and martial arts expert when it grows up), but something must be done about using violence in film for the right reasons. Peter got it right with the first season of Aeon Flux, mixing the two forms to create just the right effect. "The Matrix" was just too pretty, and probably let many, many children to become entranced by the allure of a form of violence that simply doesn't exist. "Saving Private Ryan", on the opposite side, was just too real, to the point of making me sick. I think if I film is going to effectively use violence, it's got to find the right mix of both.

Hope this isn't too off topic, but it seemed an appropriate place to put it. I'm actually dying to see this movie (man, I'm such a hypocrite).

-- Matthew Rebholz (, December 30, 2000.

Actually, Star Trek tried to humanize violence, as much as possible for it's time. Gene Roddenberry said that he didn't want his children exposed to slick violence, he wanted them to see that violence was bloody and painful, and undesireable. Of course, you still have the laser guns and the comical-looking fistfights, but Star Trek was very much an anti-violence show.

-- Paul (, December 30, 2000.

Roddenberry was a doll.

-- Barb e. (, December 30, 2000.

I think the way Star Trek uses violence is very much a cop-out, usually resorting to fairly clean phasers that wipe people out before they can even suffer. They're also not very frightening to the viewer, or particularly fun to watch in most cases. That's why I place it into that middle category. Of course, there are exceptions to everything I've said here. Regardless of what Roddenberry thought of violence, the actual depiction of it on his shows is generally not very well done.

-- Matthew Rebholz (, December 30, 2000.

Back in the days of Star Trek's original release, graphically depicted violence was not as yet an accepted form of entertainment. You see, we've come a long way. Course, the Golden age of Rome always understood the merits of good violent entertainment. All the fat emporer's sat back on their marble couches while their hearts raced to the tune of dying men gasping out and the last drop of blood draining into the sand of the arena.

-- Barb e. (, December 30, 2000.


-- Frosty the Snow Chick (, December 31, 2000.

Wow, what a beautiful movie. I'll talk more about this on the "art of film" forum...

-- Matthew Rebholz (, January 25, 2001.

I like to see violence as art. I wouldn't say that the Matrix fits this it was camera tricks as art. Let take a look at movies which push violent action as art, I would say that probably the best example of this is "Drunken Master 2". What you have with this film in the last 30- 40 minutes is a complete drop in the "sick" side of vioence. In fact you almost get the idea its more of a display of human capability. It is indeed violence but its done so to the point of art that you perceive it as spectical than pain. Its my favorite martial art film and probably will be until Jackie Chan does anouther serious martial arts film.

For a good laugh and to see some horrible editing rent "Drunken Master 1". The version I saw had a skip right from a training scene to the final confrotation, and characters are there and we have no idea how they got there. Just my suggestion "Showlin(sp?) Wooden Men" for a good martial arts film.

-- Tucker (, January 25, 2001.

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius----and a lot of courage----to move in the opposite direction"......................Albert Einstein

-- Barb e. (, January 25, 2001.

I prefer to think violence as a spectacle as well. When watching a kung-fu movie for instance, you admire the athleticism of the stunts. Car chases, explosions or guns have never done it for me. The agility of Jet Li, Jackie Chan and all the less well-known kung fu actors is a sight to behold.

-- William (, January 26, 2001.

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