I wish to purchase a Leica for an avid photographer friend of mine as a gift. Price is not a consideration but quality and usability is.

I want opinions about both present models and past models. I will hunt for it if I decide it is right, so don't worry about scarcity.

What are three of the best Leicas ever made for photographic use? They must be usuable even today, be able to stand up to a little abuse, go traveling, etc. Modern day usage with either a present or past day camera. The guy I am buying for is really a rabid Leica fan so I would rather get this right than wrong. He seems to prefer the older stuff but...I leave it in your hands. Also, with your opinion, would you please put the expected cost of the item if you know it. Thanks for any and all help.

--Brett

-- Brett Daniels (Frogman800@aol.com), December 14, 2000

Answers

What Leica equipment does this person already own? Without this info it would be difficult to recommend anything. Are you thinking to purchase another, different camera body, or a perhaps a lens he doesn't yet own? By the way, anyone reading this that knows me, a nice clean M4 would be more than acceptable as a gift, as well as a like new, chrome M6 classic.

-- Andrew Schank (aschank@flash.net), December 14, 2000.

Forgive me but this like buying clothes for someone without knowing their size. Gift Certificate? Does your friend ever intend to shoot with a lens shorter than 50mm? If not a refurbished M3 could work well. In case you don't know they come with single and double stroke film advance. I personally prefer the single given the choice. The M2 had different magnification and has framelines for the 35mm lens. The better the cosmetics of these older pieces, the more they will cost because of desirability to collectors. I personally like the M4 and opt for an auxillary optical finder for a 28mm lens. The M4-P and the latest model M6 incorporate 28mm brightlines in the viewfinder. If your friend wears glasses like me, he or she may find the optical finder better than the bright lines in the camera. The models from M4 forward have easier film loading and canted rewind cranks. Rapid load conversion kits offer a small improvement to the removable spool film load system of the M3 or M2. You can get a slip on crank for the pull up knurled film rewind knob on the M2 and M3. The M4-2 is possibly the best value for the money. Pesonally I like the construction of the older M4. It's purely subjective but the M4 seems sturdier in use. If using a flash seems probable then know that not all M2 or M3 bodies have modern PC type plugs though for a fee they can be upgraded. Most of the models after the M4 have a hot shoe as well. Some workers prefer black bodies. Here you will pay dearly if you opt for a M4 or earlier because of rarity. For a fee repainting a chrome body is possible though some would call this heresy. The M4-2 and later is black at no additional cost. M6 models incorporate state of the art metering, TTL in latest versions. In practice you can use a separate hand meter or possibly clip on the MR meter that is designed to go into the shoe of the M and couple to the shutter speed dial giving a constant 90 degree (angle of view) measurement of light (=35mm focal length)as a less elegant but less expensive meter. there was also an M5, very different in design, being longer than other M bodies and using a built-in match needle metering system. The CL and CLE joint effort with Minolta can use some of the Leitz and Leica lenses. They are shorter than the classic M and load differently. Both have built in meters. They sometimes sell for less than most M bodies and might offer an alternative. This is way more than you wanted to hear I'm sure. Sorry I couldn't be more succinct.

-- Michael Johnson (mdjohnsonphoto@hotmail.com), December 14, 2000.

Wow, I wish I had a friend like you. Personally I like the M2 and there's some near mint ones available. Try Nancy at this address DRAGWEST1@aol.com for a near mint one, they may still have it and if they have you would get it for $1400.

Roy Moss in an article in the Viewfinder (magazine of the Leica Historical Society of America) puts forth his claim for the M2 as being the best Leica M ever. I tend to agree with him, the article can be found at http://www.lhsa.org/leicam2.htm.

There's also some really nice M2's, M3's and M4's available on www.ebay.com from reputable dealers and individuals. There's a particularly nice M2 and M3 up for auction at the moment.

Happy hunting. I'll post you some jpeg files of the camera Nancy has for sale.

-- T.A. (mahv@xtra.co.nz), December 14, 2000.

Any of the 50 year special editions, especially M4.

-- Bill Mitchell (bmitch@home.com), December 14, 2000.

I know what I would want if the gift were for me, but I doubt if anyone, even a fellow Leicaphile, could accurately second-guess my wish list. I would suggest you make sure to get it in writing that your friend can return the item for a refund if it isn't what he wants. Some camera stores charge a "restocking fee" of 10-15% on returns, so be sure to read the fine print!

-- Jay (infinitydt@aol.com), December 14, 2000.

I have a hard time imagining giving someone a camera unless they're broke. It's like giving a carpenter a hammer, who would do that?

Why not get an original print, something nice that can't be bought at the local camera shop. I'm willing to bet it would last a lot longer than something that you had to get return or exchange privileges on.

-- Jeff Spirer (jeff@spirer.com), December 14, 2000.

"M6 models incorporate state of the art metering, TTL in latest versions" This was mentioned above, and I wanted to clarify the the meter in ALL versions of the M6 is indeed TTL, and that the TTL model designation was given to describe the current cameras that also have ttl flash metering.(with special dedicated flash units)

-- Andrew Schank (aschank@flash.net), December 14, 2000.

OOPs! I forgot to include the word Flash in my TTL description of the latest M6 versions. Thanks Andrew! The M5, CL, meters are actually ttl metering as well though not dedicated with flash.

-- Michael Johnson (mdjohnsonphoto@hotmail.com), December 14, 2000.

"Price is not a consideration".

1. 2 M6Js. One to keep and one to use. 2. 2 M6TTLs. One .58 and One .85 3. 2 Mint M3s. One to Keep and One to use.

-- Mani Sitaraman (bindumani@pacific.net.sg), December 14, 2000.

I would think that you would want to see if he has any specific cameras already, although two of anything can be cool also.

If you do decide to go for an older Leica (M2,3,4) you should be sure to get Voigtlander's wonderful shoe mount meter. It's great for older non-metered rangefinders.

-- Josh Root (rootj@att.net), December 14, 2000.

Brett, to simplify, let's find out if he favors wide-angle or telephoto lenses. If possible, tell us which focal lengths. Write back, and this will greatly simplify the choices.

Regards,

-- Bob Fleischman (RFXMAIL@prodigy.net), December 14, 2000.

This might help: Stephen Gandy's M User's Buyer's Guide, cheers.

-- Hoyin Lee (leehoyin@hutchcity.com), December 15, 2000.

Do I smell a troll?

-- Dave Jenkins (djphoto@vol.com), December 15, 2000.

I'm with Dave here. The subject title says it all. If not, give us more info to work on Brett. Brett?

-- Ron Gregorio (gregorio@ksc.th.com), December 15, 2000.

Give your friend a new Leica M-6 with a 50mm f/2 Summicron lens. I'd recommend black chrome for it's durability. It's a camera that your friend will keep and enjoy his/her entire life. This camera/lens combination is timeless, and it will also retains its value. It truly epitomizes quality and usability.

Stay away from used equpiment unless your friend is extremely familiar with Leicas. The new equipment warranty, called PASSPORT, comes in handy since it covers any damage to the equipment for 3 years.

Current prices are about $1995 for the M-6 (minus $150 rebate, currently underway) and about $995 for the lens (rebate applies here as well). Buy from a retailer that specializes in Leica. They're more knowledgeable and compeitive on prices. I recommend Tamarkin in New York, Don Chatterton in Seattle, Jim Kuehl is Iowa, or Sam Shohan at Classic Connections in New York. You can find more specifics in Shutterbug magazine.

Good luck.

-- Joseph J. Barbano (joseph.barbano@symmetron.com), December 15, 2000.

Hi Brett,

Thanks for your personal email to me. Sorry for mistaking your query as a "troll" question.

My recommendation is to look up Stephen Gandy's cameraquest.com website, where you'll find useful, but objective information about Leica cameras. Check out ebay for some idea on used Leica prices, and B&H for new ones. Generally, I find that second hand Leicas are cheaper here in Asia. Also, why not ask your friend indirectly what is his favorite Leica.

Good luck to you and Seasons' Greetings.

Regards,

-- Ron Gregorio (gregorio@ksc.th.com), December 17, 2000.

Wonder why no one has mentioned a Leica "O"? Only 4000 made, they're brand new and eminenty usable. Would I love to have one -- Yes! Would I pay $2500 for one -- When hell freezes over.

-- Bill Mitchell (bmitch@home.com), December 17, 2000.

"I wish to purchase a Leica for an avid photographer friend of mine as a gift. Price is not a consideration but quality and usability is."

You say your friend seems to prefer the old stuff but you don't say what he already owns. The oldest Leica stuff, of course, is rangefinder. Has your friend any objection to SLR? Does your friend need the ability to use longer lenses than 135mm or macro lenses? The fact that R lenses are at least as good, if not better, than any others means that Leica R series (or its Leicaflex predecessor) represents a very viable alternative. They are well built and solid aith excellent features (unless you need auto-focus!)

The main downside is the bulk and high cost of the R lenses. On the other hand, the older R bodies are not too big or expensive but provide a good balance with the lenses. The R8 is significanlty bigger, heavier and costlier but, supposedly, is also ergonomically superior.

Just my 2 cents: I felt the R series was being neglected in this thread!

Regards,

-- Ray Moth (ray_moth@yahoo.com), December 18, 2000.

Hi Brett:

If you haven't already made your purchase, you may consider a Black Paint Special Edition M6TTL that was designed by the Leica Historical Society (LHSA). These are identical to the standard M6TTL, except for the beautiful Black Paint finish. Many Leica afficiados consider the black paint models the most beautiful, but naturally "beauty is in the eye of the beholder"...I will say that while I didn't buy one for myself (due to the higher cost), I'd love to have one and it would make a really nice gift!

You may still be able to get one at Tamarkin in NYC. If not, they maybe avle to dfind one for you. These were selling for $2,595 for the standard .72 viewfinder model.

Good luck.

-- KL Prager (www.pragerproperties@att.net), December 20, 2000.