The civility of this and other Leica related sites astounds me. Being used to the discourteous, insolent and brusque behavior on the Nikon mailing list and other areas of photo.net this site is a breath of fresh air.

It gives me one more reason to pull the trigger and get that .72 M6 TTL and 35 f/2 Summicron I've been dreaming about. Are Leica owners kinder and gentler? Will I become kinder and gentler?

But those prices!

Thanks to all for finding ways of getting along.

-- Tim Kame (openmri@execpc.com), December 13, 2000

Answers

Bill's comment, though known to be just a joke, has been summarily deleted all the same!

--The Humble Moderator

-- Bill Mitchell (bmitch@home.com), December 13, 2000.

There are those posting on the internet who show great immaturity and seem to think that rudeness and a mean spirit are attractive traits for a person to possess. Maybe there is a mutual respect shared at this site for all of us bitten by the Leica bug. Photography for me is a lot of fun , and I also enjoy the fine equipment itself the way you would a work of art. I am still amazed at the quality of the cameras and lenses Leica produced back in the 1950's that are cabable of images of outstanding clarity even viewed by today's standards. It took me 20 years to own a Leica M camera from the first time I played with one. My "new" M3 jump started my photography hobby again, so I can appreciate the attraction to the cameras and their use and enjoy adding my two cents if I think it will be of some use to a poster. Welcome Tim and good luck with your Leica search.

-- Andrew Schank (aschank@flash.net), December 13, 2000.

Tim, to preserve your virgin innocence, I suggest you stay away from the LUG (Leica Users Group) list. All is not sweetness and light in Leica-land.

-- Dave Jenkins (djphoto@vol.com), December 13, 2000.

Tim:

I want to say that by the time one can afford a Leica and a computer on which to tell about it, one is old enough to have mellowed somewhat. I can't really say that though, because I was in my early 20's when I saved up for somemonths for my first Leica. Then I saved another six weeks for a 35mm f/2.8 Summaron. I think I was a bit superior-acting in those days, actually.

You know, the guys who hang around the Leica counter at the local dealer on Saturdays are very nice, too.

I think, though, that if you've been dreaming about an M6, that's reason enough to buy one! The 35 Summicron is one of my all-time favorites. Its existance is reason enough in itself to buy a Leica!

Happy Shooting,

-- Bob Fleischman (RFXMAIL@prodigy.net), December 13, 2000.

I think there are many here who will eventually be buried with their M hanging from their neck - just in case.

-- Ken Shipman (kennyshipman@aol.com), December 13, 2000.

"I think, though, that if you've been dreaming about an M6, that's reason enough to buy one!"

I fully agree with the above statement. I personally went a full circle before landing on the M. And that was a costly thing to do.

However, do rent/borrow one to use for a few days. Not everyone will like the camera, and the preference depends very much on how and what you shoot. I mean it!

-- Maestro Logos (maestro_logos@mac.com), December 14, 2000.

If you buy your Leica M used (Personally, I recommend the M3, a 50mm Summilux or Summicron with a Gossen Luna Pro light meter), you can most often sell it for what you have in in if you buy from a private party. Subtract 5% for eBay, and 33% from a dealer. More than most material objects, a Leica M is an investment, not a consumable expense.

Expect to overhaul any used M you buy. Their owners wait a *long* time before they decide that Leica photography isn't for them, and the lubricants in the camera need to be renewed every decade or so. Overhauls run about $200.00. A newly overhauled M is as good (Many in the business say better) than a new M6.

-- Tom Bryant (boffin@gis.net), December 14, 2000.

Will you become kinder and gentler? I don't know, but you'll have more fun and spend less money than visiting a psychiatrist to correct any personality shortcomings.

-- Keith Nichols (knichols@iopener.net), December 14, 2000.

You´re rigth this is a civiliced place, and a M6-35 summicron pre asph combo is great choice, I´m sure you won´t ever be disapointed. I wander why owning a leica can make someone more civiliced, well I´m sure one of those autoeverything SLR´s can make anyone get stressed. Enjoy your Leica and have a colorful Christmas

-- R.Watson (mawago@prodigy.net.mx), December 15, 2000.

I, too, like this forum. It seems to be made up of reasonable people, capable of maintaining a polite and mature atmosphere whilst discussing something that is of mutual interest (Leica). I have found Leica people, in general, to be friendly and helpful. Not wishing to appear snobbish, it seems to me that Leicas do not attract the loutish element often found elsewhere. If I *do* appear snobbish, too bad; but I'd rather be a snob than a slob!

I am a member of both the Leica Users Group (LUG) and its bitter rival the Leica Enthusiasts Group (LEG), as well as being the founder of two Leica R lists (which I won't name here, because I understand it may annoy, but contact me off-list if you're interested!). I am also a member of the Olympus Mailing List.

Of these, I have to say that the friendliest and most enjoyable is the Olympus list. They have come to terms with things like persistent OT threads, flaming and other annoyances and have voluntarily pulled themselves into line with only minimal intervention by the list administrators (there is no moderator).

The LUG seems to have more than its fair share of OT and flaming but is fun, neverthelss. Only problem is, some OT threads seem to go on forever. It seems to be a collection of old acquaintances, some a bit grumpy, who don't suffer fools gladly. They tolerate newcomers but react quickly and sharply to any perceived silliness. To the more sensitive, the LUG can seem a dour and unfriendly list.

The other lists (LEG and Leica R lists) are very serious, with little or no OT stuff. The LEG, in particular, has a moderator who doesn't hesitsate to step in and delete threads that seem to be overstepping the mark in terms of relevance and longevity. This may be because the LEG was originally a break-away splinter from the LUG by people who had had quite enough of the latter and were determined that their list be completely different.

Photo.net I have found to generally reasonable and usually very informative but with a bit of an irreverent, undergraduate atmosphere to it nevertheless. I agree with your accusations of discourteous, insolent and brusque behaviour. I have been offended by some things in photo.net (and I'm no prig).

Regards,

Ray Moth Jakarta, Indonesia

-- Ray Moth (ray_moth@yahoo.com), December 18, 2000.