ok, so a 5-0 defeat and the prospect of 6 months dour football hurts. i had hoped it would be a thing of the past as well.

what should the club (plc) do? most on here think 1)plunge into the transfer market or 2) sell our best young players and then plunge into the transfer market.

what bollocks. if you ran a business would you pay 5 million quid (about 10% of annual revenue?) for something you might get free in 2 months?

new players or not, current injuries dictate that this is destined to be a crap season. no sense in breaking the bank in order to finish 8th instead of 12th is there.

Next, dyer might have had a poor game on saturday but selling him would be a total retro step. he will be a good player when he gets a decent team around him, similarly solano.

i'd like to see the rest of the season spent consolidating with the youngsters and the phasing out of the old guard, -speed , lee , barton and dare i say it shearer-. and when the uncertainty clears up replace them with some new talent.

in the meantime, stop this useless complaining

-- Anonymous, December 11, 2000

Answers

Sorry George, but I can't sit on my hands and watch dire (surely Dyer!) performances. I think I know what you're getting at, and I've probably relaxed from my recent 'exterminate the 1st team' opinions. Nevertheless, the priorities for me at the start of this season (and the Board I'm sure) would have been:

a) consolidation of the team
b) get rid of dead wood
c) challenge for a European place

Given those quite reasonable expectations (as said previously I don't think there wasn't an international player in black and white) we are failing. We're not as bad as some may think, but we're bloody average. That said, we can't have players biding their time until a better offer comes around. I'm beginning to see that with Dyer and Solano (already with Goma?). Both can be match winners, but if they need to have a great team around them to shine then they're no good to us. We need points and results.

Personally, I'd rather have them in and taught how to graft a result and use their undoubted ability to turn it around for the team. Nevertheless, it's the team that matters and if the manager that I trust says they (i.e. every player) are not helping our goals then I'll join in a loud but sad "adios amigos".

-- Anonymous, December 11, 2000

bobby. i don't disagree with you on objectives for the season (although the euro dream isn't going to happen thx to injuries).

one thing that really pisses me off about nufc fans is the tendency to turn on players after a couple of bad results. the target is usually a foreign player and the abuse serves no purpose other than to hasten the decline in form and subsequent exit from the club.

dyer & solano have played some good games for the toon, its unfortunate that they are attacking players in a team with no midfield spine - speed and lee can't do it- if you were one of the best young attacking midfielders in england and were being asked to play out of position in a team that can't deliver the ball to you and the fans were giving you shit about about your performances, how would you feel? solano has similar woes just now.

get a grip people

-- Anonymous, December 11, 2000

".....no sense in breaking the bank in order to finish 8th instead of 12th is there?"

How about 18th instead of 12th George?

Impossible? Well, when that's perfectly clear, I'll be very relieved. Right now, other than turning up and supporting them, there's not much more I can do other than express my concerns on here. So, if it's all the same with you........................

-- Anonymous, December 11, 2000

George, I saw Dyer / Dire on Saturday (as well as you? not a dig, just a query :-) ) and he had plenty of ball all afternoon, some in good positions. The result was one shot on target. That's not good enough. I saw Solano also have plenty of ball, again in good positions (some dangerous free kick positions too) and nowt came from it.

All I expect is that they do as well as they are capable for. They aren't and questions are entitled to be asked.

-- Anonymous, December 11, 2000

"......and the fans were giving you shit about about your performances, how would you feel?"

With all due respect George, I don't believe the fans have given any players in a B&W shirt any sh*t whatsoever at any game this season.

In fact, while the atmosphere at SJP certainly isn't as good as it used to be, I'm certainly not aware of any grief being directed at individual players, although there has been a little general moaning around me directed at AS from time to time - very unfairly IMO.
The support at away games - including Saturday - has been absolutely fantastic.

So, let's not have any cr@p about the fans being in any way contributory to recent team performances.

-- Anonymous, December 11, 2000

clarky yes 18th would be bad, if you think the current squad cant get 5 more wins this season then we should buy now, not necessarily otherwise.

bobby, no i didn't see the game on saturday, but i'm certain the root of reason for 5-0 doesn't lie with the likes of dyer and solano.

for reasons stated i'm not about to start crucifying them.

-- Anonymous, December 11, 2000

This year the Prem is of a very poor quality. Having said that at this moment in time I'd settle for 12th. We are a very very poor team/squad. I dont want to sound like a whinger but I can feel more woe coming our way.

-- Anonymous, December 11, 2000

what did the man u lot say after we stuffed them 5-0?

i'm sure things will get better!

get a curry, drink a beer and smile...

-- Anonymous, December 11, 2000

Apparently one of the agreements at the EU summit in Nice was to hold on abolishing the transfer system to allow for a FIFA compromise to be sorted out. My guess is that nothing will happen until after the summer at the earliest and then some sort of transfer set up will still exist. Waiting for it all to be sorted out is a very dangerous game to play given the inadequacies of our present squad.

-- Anonymous, December 11, 2000

clarky. i'm not saying the fans have been on players backs this season. but, if this organ is representative then the rumblings have started.

i've seen this sort thing before and does no good.

stories of players bursting into tears in the dressing room when the crowd jeers as their name is read out pre match are more than myths.

-- Anonymous, December 11, 2000

Hang on George. I don't boo our players, even when they're pants and nobody booed the black and white on Saturday either. The testament to the currently available squad is a resounding silence when Cordone turned out (short sleeve top and gloves? Hmmm).

I think we are more than entitled to ask why we are not seeing lads capable of playing well not doing so. Robson told Dyer he could be a hero on Tyneside if he knuckled down and worked hard. So far I have seen nothing to say he's going to be a hero. I want him to be, but no- one but himself can do owt about it.

And if professionals want to be in the limelight and earn 10s of £1,000s then the odd bit of criticism won't harm.

-- Anonymous, December 11, 2000

>>>>>what did the man u lot say after we stuffed them 5-0?

Hah! They said nowt - they slunk away like whipped dogs. Compare that to the Toon Army on Saturday, still singing at 0-5 and still singing after the final whistle. After every goal the Arse came out with what seems to be their only song - "You're not singing any more" only to be drowned out by chants of "Newcastle, Newcastle". The crowd - WE - were magnificent. As I said last week we are the best, and Saturday was proof of the fact.

-- Anonymous, December 11, 2000

Interesting to note the only time they could be heard on the webcast was after their goals. Nothing but Toon Army the rest of the time.

-- Anonymous, December 11, 2000

When we stuffed manure, it was an unfortunate hiccup to them, because they weren't facing the prospect of playing for three months with NO front-line strikers, a month with only one fit first-team CB, and apparently no immediate prospect of such a ludicrous situation being resolved.

I can never ever recall another PL Club allowing themselves to get into a situation like the one we find ourselves in AGAIN - remember Barcelona?

BTW: I'm not god-damned 'whinging' - like many other true fans on here, I'm really worried.

Jonno,

You are absolutely correct about the travelling support. But you know, wouldn't it be nice - just once - if the team matched the quality of its fans?

-- Anonymous, December 11, 2000

George bonny lad , i think you've put yourself up here to be shot at .. ill say just a couple of things .. none i can see boo's or slates a particular player .. my old man was sat amongst the Arse fans at this match , and one of the comments from the cockneys was ' Can you imagine what they ( Toon army ) would be like if they were winning ? '.. that says it all to me . At the match you support the team , however as a season ticket holder who spends his time and money travelling the length and breadth of the country SUPPORTING his team ( along with many others on here ) , i feel completely justified in letting off a bit of steam on a private forum and letting others who WEREN'T there to witness the misery of the Charlton , Everton , hakkum , Brum and @rse games ... they were sh1te man , bloody spineless and totally outclassed .. now with the facts that have been presented by many on here , do you still think i/we should shut up and keep buying wor pies and drinking from our flasks ?? I think not . Swifty you're a very tolerant lad ; - )

-- Anonymous, December 11, 2000

George

, I am well known on here for being a bit of a yes man, rarely disagreeing with anyone, but on this occasion I must dissagree

what should the club (plc) do? most on here think 1)plunge into the transfer market or 2) sell our best young players and then plunge into the transfer market. what bollocks. if you ran a business would you pay 5 million quid (about 10% of annual revenue?) for something you might get free in 2 months?

Number 2 for sure isn't bollocks. What a ot on here are saying is that ordinarily Newcastle wouldn't want to sell Dyer ....but , IF say LEEDS offered £15 Million for Dyer, should Newcastle take it? Of Course they should. With that kind of money they could get TWO STRIKERS, and a CENTREBACK. IF Leeds say they will give Newcastle £7 million and Bridges when he's fit, Snap their bliddy fingers off, We could go and get Lee Hughes for £5 million and one of those centrebacks that Robson has had on trial in recent weeks.THREE PLAYERS of a decent quality in positions where they are needed fo One good player who plays in a position where we have many alternatives. We don't need six or seven right midielder , three or 4 would do.

However if a club came in and said we will give you £7 or £8 million for Dyer, then of course it would be crazy to sell, even if the same player could leave FOR FREE in a few months.

As for your other point, you may have given up on the season in reckoning that we will finnish somewhere between 8th and 12th, but I haven't. What are we, 5 points off the champions league and 3 points off a UEFA spot? Why can't we WITH A COUPLE OF DECENT NEW PLAYERS , still get into Europe.

I'm with George with the title of the thread only , other than that he's whinging as much as the rest of you.

We have to put Saturday behind us and HOPE THE BOARD CHANGE THEIR MINDS

HOWAY LADS AND LASSES LOOK FORWARD NOT BACK.

-- Anonymous, December 11, 2000

lets just clarify my position on a couple of things boyz n gals.

1) this whingeing thingy is irritating because i reckon you're all bleating on about the wrong issues. the team isn't losing cos of dyer and solano and the like, rather the real problem is the average play of speed, lee, barton, and even shearer combined with their fat salaries this limits the club's options in the short term. rick.. do we really want to sell dyer to solve this problem.

2) i'm not accusing anybody on here of victimizing dyer solano or anybody publicly but i have seen players at sjp crucified by the fans and i can see it happening again.

3) and yes rick, i do think the season is a write off thanks to the circumstances in point 1, the injuries and the fact nobody in their right mind is going to lash out loads of transfer fee cash in the short term. financing a rebuilding effort by selling dyer is risky - are the players that you mentioned really that good?- and represents a step back to the 80's waddle, beardsley gazza et al.

thats it

-- Anonymous, December 11, 2000

Agree with Rik about Dyer. At the minute he's just not what we need. Too lightweight to play in the middle, not as good as Nobby on the right and as for all this playing behind the front two cobblers that would mean retaining the 3-5-2/5-3-2 that has served us so well against West Ham, Bradford, the Mackems and now Arsenal.

Plus if Leeds are gonna offer us £11m+ for him then we've doubled our money in 16 months. I'd be sad in a way to see him leave but it wouldn't be the blow that Hamann leaving was. Now he WAS a midfielder.

-- Anonymous, December 11, 2000

"...the team isn't losing cos of dyer and solano and the like, rather the real problem is the average play of speed, lee, barton, and even shearer".

To be honest, I can't be @rsed to keep arguing this particular point, but George if you really believe it is Rob Lee, Warren Barton, Gary Speed and Alan Shearer who are letting us down, and that the Toon would be better off without them right now - then all I can say is that I believe you're badly mistaken.

-- Anonymous, December 11, 2000

Item 1. George Best. Above. So very very very true .

Whingeing. Example. Screacher. who comes over from the USA for the match, wonders to himself is it worth it, pens a piece on this forum of which he is in my eyes a most respected member complaining (well it sounds better than whingeing) about the performance he had to endure on Saturday is what we should have been doing for years . Myself inc we have been sold down the "Big River" for years, and yet we castigate loyal supporters for daring to complain, and in the same breath we as adults think just because say Warren Barton leads players over to the away support to clap them he has the toon at heart, committment, probably seals my place next week eh Bob?. He should be slunking into the dressing room, heed doon . kick a couple of doors in , have a slanging match, punch up with other non performers, now people thats committment to the cause, not the spin we `The Long Term Losers` get. BTW this is general and in no way aimed at you Besty - okay

Jonno (esteemed younger friend), your prose on here prior to the game , after some dismal postings really fired up the troops,hairs standing up on necks,palpitations of the heart, into the Highbury of Death, Gooners to the left, Gooners to the right stuff. Can you not see bonny lad that it is guys like you, me, Clarky, Pit Bull, True,FF and others are the problem, we have suffered mediocrity for years, and what have we done about it, zilch , talk the talk , wallow in a few good results , 5-0 , Barca etc, while everyone in the hiarachy get rich at our expense. At 60 I have a long standing love affair with my team which will never die , Saturday`s to hear Min singing in NZ and next week we will all be doing the same, but its to the future,the young softies, Elliots of this world we should be directing our faith, by ensuring they have a team to support who are worthy of there support and not treated as football fodder.

Dread remarked on another thread on which no-one has answered a very pertinent question, on the lines of come May would we class Bobby`s buys as bad as Dagleish/Gullitt, interesting!!! My opinion is if he cannot hack it, he has to go, simple, no sympathy whatsoever

-- Anonymous, December 11, 2000

clarky: anybody can cut and paste a segment of a posting to prove their point.

i said that: the average play and fat salaries of speed, barton et al was the problem. or words to that affect i.e. read: 1) we can pick up points against average teams but don't be surprised when arsenal beat us 5-0. 2) don't expect any significant new investment in the team because the aforementioned players have all your season ticket money.

buff: complain (not whinge) all you want. i just thought that slagging dyer (or proposing to sell him in an attempt to raise cash for an assault on 7th place) was missing the point.

-- Anonymous, December 11, 2000

Hey George, yer gettin a bit of stick tonight

I love you man

I remember the first pair of football boots that mi mam bought us. I was about six and they had your Autograph on them, they were realy cool. Now I've got your Newcastle United signed shirt, along with the names of Terry Mac, Andy Cole, Venners and Kevin Keegan (why did you sign a Newcastle shirt?)

So now you're living in New York and going by the name of Dave ..... Why?

-- Anonymous, December 11, 2000

George, I don't think toon fans are turning on Dyer or Solano. It's jst that they play in a similar position, and Newcastle are crying out for a striker, a central defender and a left winger. If we could get all three by sacrificing one player and therefore stand a chance of still having a decent season , is that such abad thing?

If Leeds offered silly money for a player that could go for free at the end of the season, we would be stupid not to take it. YES Dyer is a top prospect for the future, but Solano is just as good, and we also have Gavilan waiting in the wings. It's not like the bad old days of selling yourt best player to pay the bills, It's a choice of selling a good player to get two or three good players. If there were an alternative then BR will take it, as has been seen with his attempts to get a loan signing or two.But he is having no joy, and the board have no funds to offer him

The thing is It's too early to be throwing the season If there is a chance for us to get into Europe and I believe that here is a 1 in 3 chance, then we have to go down that road.

-- Anonymous, December 11, 2000

[RANT_ON]

The point (well, at least one of them), as far as I can see it is that Dyer just isn't performing. OK, so he had a decent match a couple of weeks ago. But he is too inconsistent. How many times can we put up with it? I'm not picking on him - just he's been singled out as (perhaps) having tremendous talent, but not realising it. Now, how much that is down to him and how much to his team mates?

I dunno - but I do believe that his talent is greater than (say) Muzzy Izzet or Neil Lennon who were the heart of a good, workmanlike Leicester team who are doing a canny bit better than us, both in the league and in recent cup competitions. Now, why was that? Was it their manager, was it their team mates or was it themselves? I dare say I could mention another example, but prejudice and bigotry prevent me from mentioning them. But are their players really as good as their position in the EPL?

I really don't know, but one thing I do believe is that unless Dyer performs and starts to see success at NUFC, he will want to be off anyway. If YBR can't see him cutting the mustard soon, and if he gets a very good offer (say Rik's £15M) I would say we should take it. Every player has his price. What is Dyer's?

I don't disagree that we need strengthening. Lee and Speed are not getting any younger and their top performances are getting further apart. But this is in an area of the pitch we have spent a lot of money already - Acuna, Bassedas and Dyer. Apart from Dyer, the other 2 are YBR acquisitions. So presumably he sees them as long-term replacements for Lee and Speed.

We've had bad luck with injuries in defence. At the end of last season, we had Dabizas, Helder, Goma, Marcelino and Howey, not to mention Hughes, Caldwell and Charvet. We sold two and lost one at the end of his loan. But even at that time, many would have thought we had enough cover. Then Dabs got injured, Marcelino gave up (apparently) and we sold Charvet. Perhaps it was a blessing in disguise - we saw some good performances from Goma and Hughes, but sadly, more injuries spoilt that. But I don't blame the board or Robson for that.

What I do see as a gross oversight was the lack of cover up front. Without some investment in this area, we will continue to struggle. Cort and Cordone and Lua x2 are not the finished article, and even if Cort was fit, we'd still have been struggling. To be honest, it might just be the fact that their is no cover up front which causes the m/f to perform so badly.

[RANT OFF]

-- Anonymous, December 11, 2000

Buff,
>>>>we have suffered mediocrity for years, and what have we done about it, zilch
To be honest with you I don't know what you can do. Of course, there can be protest when things are clearly wrong and there were many protests against the likes of Westwood & McKeag, but what precisely is wrong at present? The board have backed their managers, the managers have screwed up - where do we go from here?

BTW I have not castigated the whingers - all I have done is offer my opinion that I don't like reading what they have to say as I don't think it makes anyone feel any better and doesn't help the problem one little bit. I'm not telling them to shut up, I'm expressing my opinion that the rantings are pointless and counter-productive. They may well think the same about my ramblings I'm sure!

Even through my black and white eyes I can see we've got a few problems, but then we've seen a lot over the 90(!) years you and I have collectively followed the Toon, and we've seen much worse times than this, often in a lower division, so let's not get too carried away on the doom and gloom bandwagon.

Whatever the future holds we will never give up on them so I don't see the point in moaning too much, unless the whingers perhaps find this activity cathartic.

What thrilled me on Saturday was the absolute DEFIANCE of the Toon Army. The team was hammered and we never once faltered, singing throughout. The Gooners were somewhat taken aback as every "Your not singing any more" was drowned out by "Newcastle Newcastle". We could not be suppressed and I was very proud to be part of it.
I am not a player I am a fan and the team I'm in is the best in the business so I take a lot of pride in that. One day the team might reciprocate the excellence of the support and then again they might not. They have much to live up to and I'm not holding my breath.

HAWAY THE LADS.

-- Anonymous, December 11, 2000

Jonno, bottom para, respect to you, silly auld buggar that you are

-- Anonymous, December 11, 2000

I'm not sure us accepting mediocrity is the problem (or part of it). I accept that the club have taken support for granted over the years but what do we do? Would not turning up work? 20000 in the new SJP? Not singing our hearts out for the Lads? Would any of the above make a scrap of difference? I think not. If anything it would make matters worse.

I am a Geordie. My support for Newcastle United is unconditional.

For the 90 mins of a match we give as much support as possible, be as loud as possible, let the players know you care. I reserve the right to have a whinge about incompetent players/managers/directors etc. after a match.

-- Anonymous, December 12, 2000

Total agreement, Geordie.

Thank you for capturing it so succinctly.

-- Anonymous, December 12, 2000

It's all part of the crack, the thrill of being a football fan.

Before the match go for a drink, have a winge about last weeks game, express a little tentative optimisim, get to the ground, sing ya heart out for the first half. Half time moan to yer mates whilst queuing at the bogs. Second half sing ya heart out. Optimisim evaporates, leave the ground dejected, telling all and sundry how your sick of wasting good money watching that shite. Back to the pub, few beers, a song or two, arrange to meet up next Saturday. Home in time to moan thru Match of the Day.

Wouldn't have it any other way.

We'll support you evermore.

-- Anonymous, December 12, 2000