Well, its still Saturday night here, just helped Mrs. Pete put up the Christmas tree, a few beers, a few rums, Christmas music playing on the stereo, Bliddy Freezing outside, but that's life in the Great White North. I still feel like someone stole the kids' Christmas presents.

So what's the feeling the morning after. Are we really sh!te? Did the bairns do alright given the opposition? What happens next? Comments anyone??

-- Anonymous, December 09, 2000

Answers

onward..to the answers page.

-- Anonymous, December 09, 2000

I'm not sure if I wanna know Pete. I'm sick to death of getting up at 2 or 3 am. each Sunday morning in the vain hope of (a) hearing even a snippet of second half commentary of the lads networked through the BBC World Service (got the Mackems-Smoggies this time - friggin marvellous) (b) failing that, getting the odd positive goal flash - fat chance (c) one day hearing of a point or two won in the capital - dreaming.

I'm tired, I'm p*ssed off and I want to knock a few heeds together amongst our playing staff

-- Anonymous, December 10, 2000

Ditto.Loony It's bloody hot. Been Xmas shopping. Still can't get used to Xmas carols and all this heat.

Few cold ones and the hammock this afternoon!!!!

-- Anonymous, December 10, 2000

Pete, Im afraid we aint that good, Tactical awareness poor, example which other Premier team consistently use three players (waste) round the ball on a free kick outside area, Arsenala tea lady would know that Solano would attempt shot. Get bodies in the wall, movement in area, one man places and digs for goal, dare I say it, aka Beckham. Positional play and shape of team terrible, example Griff goes on forward run, (nowt wrong with that), loses the ball(happens), where is the cover?. For all you Barton lovers out there, I agree the energy and committment to the cause is evident, much more evident is that it is all misplaced and comes under headless chicken category, Prescence (sp *essential) unless Shearer is playing, none at all. Center Backs, Hughes I like but is ideally suited in playing as spare man behind 2 commanding no frills center backs, what the hell, go for Amaruso, finger nail time but better than we have. In midfield you all know my thoughts on the old guard, no sympathy in football, Lee thanks for all you done, goodbye, oh and Gary your just hanging on in there. Imagine sitting in the dressing room and its obvious that your main threat, albeit by himself up front is Lua Lua, not much experience at Premier level, not widely known as someone who can hold up play, no physical side to his game, against Arse, Utd were beat before they went onto the pitch, all in the mind. Bobby and Wadsworth have a lot to answer for, not convinced. as I have said on another thread, go for Lee McCulloch (Motherwell) raw, stopgap-fill-in , but at least Adams/McKeown would know he is about. Dyer, I am still out on this one ,great player in good team, poor player in a struggling team is all I can come up with. Solano and Dyer in same midfield is another poser , IMHO that quite a lot of PPP (piss poor planning) has gone into pre-season to get us to the level we are now, cannot blame Shearer`s injury, he was playing u/s prior

-- Anonymous, December 10, 2000

No better 12 hours later and stand by my comments on other threads.

YBR has many dilemas to consider - and thank god its someone of his experience considering them.I suspect he has never faced a situation like this - in many ways as difficult as the one he inherited 14 months ago with injuries mounting up by the week.

Shearer has been carrying this knock for too long and IMO would have been sorted or part way there had Cort not got crocked so early.We have all said this time and time again. IF we are going to play two big lads up front and one of them is Shearer then we need a ready made stand in to prolong the career of a major asset. For gods bloody sake isnt it obvious. Look at Teddy Sheringham at Manure. Would he be playing the way he is if he had been battered and bruised, playing half fit week in week out. Its a false economy Freddie and the club will suffer over the Christmas. Clear as crystal.

Goma would have been gone if Dabs had not picked up his injury. Not agreeing he is better than Goma, but Goma expressed his wish to leave and it would have been granted under the right circumstances.Now, once again unfit and untransferable in the short term when we could use the funds. Depite some good performances this year he has fallen well short of value for money on availability alone, and as for this crap of wanting to be in a big city - Mr Goma you have been paid an awfull lot of money for warming the treatment table over the past 18 months so come up with something original as an excuse. Or think before you move to a club. Tw**t.

Marcelino. Well what the hell is going on here. Clarky expressed his opinion somewhile ago that somewhere in Marcelino there is a good player. Well I feel that side of him will not show at SJP, but who the hell will buy this lad? Doubtless he will return for a 45 min appearence over the holiday fixtures, before limping off injured and be out and untransferable for a further period of time. What should Bobby do - get him fit and flog him off cheap? Please dont play the lad Bobby coz he'll get crocked again.

Domi - views expressed elsewhere, but of the opinion that he should be peddled as soon as an offer comes in. Not a happy lad and of no use to us in this frame of mind.

Lee/Speed/Barton Don't shoulder responsibilty enough as the exerienced backbone. We all have opinions as to what the cause of this is, but the bottom line is they are unable to dominate games. This is a major worry, but one which should not have come as a bolt from the blue. Seem to recall concerns about Bobby Lee two years ago, before his Indian summer last season.

To be honest, I dont know what to expect over the next 5 months but YBR is right when he made his comments about falling into a relegation scrap again. Have a feeling it isnt going to be much of a Christmas.

-- Anonymous, December 10, 2000

agreed pete. much as i hate to say it: we need to take a lesson from teams like charlton and leicester who NEVER give up. Their team spirit is positive their mentally tough. They know they can't compete with the technique of Manure and Arsenal. Instead of trying to, they look at ways to stop them - and that means getting stuck in, hassling players and teams. Unfortunately, our midfield seem to think they're too good for that.

-- Anonymous, December 10, 2000

God, where to start after that humiliation?

The most important point for our immediate future is for us to say - "OK, we've been battered by the No.2 Club in the PL with a weakened side. Let's put that behind us immediately, and looking forward positively, concentrate on securing the home points we need against the lesser sides to achieve a position of security that will enable to refocus on the longer-term future of the Club - starting on Saturday against Bradford". Everything else is of secondary importance right now.

Regarding the players and the team, I feel the discussion so far on here mixes two different issues:

1. what is our best team/formation right now? Intertwined with this is whether can/should be relying on kids like Caldwell and Ameobi, and even LuaLua at the moment.

2. is the current squad good enough to effectively compete in the PL?

I firmly believe the answer to question no.2 is NO. However, I believe we need the present players to buy us some time - maybe 2-3 seasons - to rebuild the squad: it cannot be done in 12 months - even if the money required were available.

From my personal perspective, those of you are suggesting discarding Lee, Speed and Barton (and perhaps Shearer as well for some) have got it wrong. These were the players principally responsible for keeping us up last season, but are collectively getting long in the tooth. The fact that we are - at least IMO - still so dependant on them represents THE crux of the current problem. However, these are the facts. The stark reality is that have not effectively replaced them - in fact I'n not convinced we are in a position to effectively replace ANY of them in the team.

I quite agree that RL is not now the player he was, and should not be playing every week in a critical role - however, I don't see ANY sign that anyone else can fill his position more effectively.

IMO, if Bobby were simply to jetison WB/RL/GS and AS we would drop like a stone - we still need them.

The next problem is that the next generation of players - eg. Domi, Dyer, Solano, Griffin - have not developed to the point where they are consistently and effectively taking their full share of the load from the old-timers. IMO, only Hughes, and perhaps Given, have really stepped forward this season.

Players like Caldwell, Ameobi and LuaLua can become useful squad players this season - but only have any chance of shining if the team is relatively settled, and able to accomodate them gradually.

Allied to all of this are the facts that injuries have denied us senior players like Dabz, Gallacher, Griffin and Goma for long periods, and also precluded the opportunity to have regularly played the close-season major signings - Cort and Bassedas. Acuna, Bassedas, Cordone and LuaLua may yet all prove to be good signings. However, they will struggle to exert a major influence this season in a constantly changing team that is struggling for form and fluency.

Yes, WB, RL, GS and ultimately AS need to be replaced - but for me they are still the essential spine of this team and must remain so for the rest of this season at the very least. Now is the time for calm nerves, as much consistency as possible in team selection and formation, plus a couple of experienced signings (CB & striker, on loan if necessary), not wholesale changes that discard the experienced core of the team - and along with the bath, potentially the water and the baby.

-- Anonymous, December 10, 2000

Excellent points Clarky. The best thing that can come of yesterday, and the last few games is that it should serve as a massive reality check to the players. We aren't yet as good as we think we are. And "potential" won't win games. Time to roll up the sleeves and work as a TEAM, boys. Team...novel concept, eh? ;-)

-- Anonymous, December 10, 2000

If this doesn't convince the Board that Bobby needs some cash nothing will.

-- Anonymous, December 10, 2000

Well put, Clarky.

Hoewever, I'm one who's been vocal in his criticism of GS, RL, WB and AS and i'll stick by it. I'm not suggesting getting rid of them. We do need them - desperately at the moment. However, we've got to the same point we have with the last three managers. After about a year, we suddenly stop playing as a team, grinding out results. Team spirit goes, so does confidence and bang, before you know it, we've got another manager.

So what happens after the year honeymoon?I don't know but something is wrong somewhere and i think as the senior pros [and better paid] at the club, they should be doing more. At the moment all we get is posturing and no substance. The Charlton players are probably on a lot less - does that stop them? no. So i'm looking around the team to see who's REALLY battling.

Personally, they've got to convince me this season. The last game i saw live was v Soton and despite the history of that result i saw a set of individuals who were beaten before they set foot on the pitch. They couldn't be arsed. And that's what's getting to me.

They're good enough, they just don't CARE enough.

-- Anonymous, December 11, 2000

Week in, week out we hear Bobby saying after a defeat, words to the effect of "They wanted it more than us". Again on Saturday he complimented Arsenal on their industry which gave them the win.

How long can he stick with players who he believes are not giving 100% and how do we solve this problem. I thought he would have at least got them playing for their shirt by now!

-- Anonymous, December 11, 2000

OK then, I wasn't there on Saturday, but let's ask the big question - have the players stopped playing for Bobby Robson?

-- Anonymous, December 11, 2000

Well we can assume he hammers it in to them about pride in the shirt and playing for their career etc etc. Yet they still turn out the same way.

-- Anonymous, December 11, 2000

You mean the same problem Bryan Robson has, DB?

-- Anonymous, December 11, 2000

that's the question i want answered, clarky. They're the only ones who can answer it though - by performing on the pitch. Any more tepid displays like Birmingham, Arsenal, Soton, Charlton, Everton...[the list goes on - you all know it as well as i do]. Heaven help us if Barton, Lee and Shearer really do take over as a management team in years to come. I'm sick of them - spouting all this 'we bleed B&W' while the perfomances prove otherwise.

-- Anonymous, December 11, 2000

Have the players any idea how much they're lacklustre performances are frustrating us?

As has been said, we constantly get the usual bollocks in the Ronnie, but when it comes down to it, they are not doing their talking on the pitch.

-- Anonymous, December 11, 2000

And if they won't perform for Bobby, who will they perform for? :-|

-- Anonymous, December 11, 2000