Sent this: Think we should help out what with the SPS and all: Pete at 15:42:24 Monday December 4 2000 Hi, I am a Burnley FC fan and I’d like to ask for help from you and your fans. I have built an online petition for the benefit of and asking for the fair treatment of innocent fans. There has been a storm brewing in Burnley over the revocation of three fans Season Tickets. However the Club’s board did allow them to pay on the day from now on. No refunding of money’s paid for the revoked tickets of course. Their crime? Two young lads placed their flag on the stand. A Steward ripped it off the stand and the two lads were escorted from the stadium to be told that their season ticket’s were to be revoked. A 58 year old man who was sitting next to them but in no way related to them was so shocked by their treatment that he protested directly to the steward. In the next home game. That 58 year old man was escorted by a steward out of the stadium to be told that his season ticket had also been revoked for protesting. Three fans who have paid their hard earned money to watch their beloved club and they are treated in this way. I am sure it happens at clubs up and down the country. For this reason we intend to gather as many signatures as possible and present it to Burnley FC, the F.A. the Football League and the other 91 league clubs. I hope your fans can see it in their heart to support this issue. Even our greatest rivals fans (Blackburn Rovers) have offered support to the cause. Here is the link. Please sign! http://www.petitiononline.com/zackery/petition.html Thank You Pete

-- Anonymous, December 05, 2000

Answers

Putting flags up id disgracefull. They deserve to be evicted.

-- Anonymous, December 05, 2000

Any sign of Burnley's side to this story?

-- Anonymous, December 05, 2000

Who the feck do they think they are, the royals?

-- Anonymous, December 05, 2000

Do I sense a feeling of "stuff them"? :-)

I can not believe that anyone would require to hear Burnley's side of the story!!! ALL FC's are the same nowadays.....NUFC fans should know this as much as anyone in light of your recent treatment.

Still...freedom of choice and all that bollox.

-- Anonymous, December 05, 2000

I don't particularly agree, I signed it. I don't, also particularly agree that most clubs know what fans are, they are punters in the board room and trouble outside of that, loud and proud is to be expected and encouraged...all this stuff about bringing in families during the eighties has an element of blame here as that was the beginning of the santisation ( and some would agree its success too)...

-- Anonymous, December 05, 2000

No feeling of 'stuff them', but nobody'll put their name to something without a bit more background. Personally it seems a bit far fetched if they really were as innocent as they make out. As Dan asks, what's the club's angle on it? Something smells not right with this one...

-- Anonymous, December 05, 2000

Windy..on the petition there is a guy who claims to have been a witness to the whole event. he gives his seat number and name and volunteers any assistance he can give. This is enough for me...especially in light of what's occuring right now with a certain Red, the police, the FA and MCFC..as well as our own lovely SPS and United stewards.

BTW...I must have more trust in people's integrity than you do. I can't imagine a Burnly fan going to all this trouble over nowt..can U?

PS..FREEDOM OF SPEECH.....

-- Anonymous, December 05, 2000

I reckon they are probably known Hooligans , and the club was jst looking for a good reason to evict them. what kind of flags were they, Nazi stuff I reckon. And just because a bloke is 58 dosen't mean to say he cant be a hooligan either. He probably heads a neo nazi subversive group of which the two lads were his disiples.

-- Anonymous, December 05, 2000

I figure yer tongue Rik is firmly stuck in yer cheek. Now I don't know what this tells me but when this was posted on m-u-f-c.co.uk it was taken at face value and supported. On here it's questioned??

-- Anonymous, December 05, 2000

That's why you keep coming back here LR , you know you'll get more than an "Er OK I'll" sign."

As for the Burnley fans, still can't forgive them for what they did back in 67.

-- Anonymous, December 05, 2000

What exactly are those who sign the petition supporting, other than giving sympathy? I might be more disposed if I could actually find all the details you're referring to. All I can find when I go to the address you posted is a statement saying 'This is a petition to demand freedom of thought and choice for all Clarets fans and indeed all football fans. If a fan loses his right to voice his support or show his support then why should he follow the team or the sport?' ???Freedom of thought and choice? eh?

-- Anonymous, December 05, 2000

I'm not taking any side on this one until I read/hear both sides of the story then I will make a decision, especially about the 58 year old or whatever he was, but the initial 'crime' as I understand it was to hang a banner/flag over the edge of the stand....yes.

This is a SERIOUS question, if you were paying several thousands of pounds to a football club to put a board up advertising your company and someone covered it up, for whatever reason, would you not be a bit pissed off, but who would you threaten to sue/withdraw revenue from, the people that put the banner up or the club.

Now taking the club line, faced with such a threat from a potentially lucrative source of income, would you just sit back and wait for them to pull out of a deal, or would you try and rectify it.

Back to the fan line........can you seriously, hand on heart say that this was either a) the first time they had been asked to remove it or b) they didn't give the steward a torrent/mouthful of abuse for taking it down.......

There are two sides to every story, and in this instance there seems to be even more than that.

If the story is as Lanky describes, than yes I will sign the petition and would advocate that everyone else does the same, but methinks it ain't quite as crystal clear as suggested.

-- Anonymous, December 05, 2000

Like I've said before on this thread....since when has any club spoken to the fans 1st before acting? We at OT are under scrutiny all the time..and we're pounced on regularly by heavy handed stewards. Since when do the police ask 1st..and I know many many fans that have been man-handled by the Old Bill just because they are football fans. When did the directors of NUFC talk to the fans before moving their ST's at the start of this term etc etc etc?

Naaaaaaaaaaa...as football fans we're treated like shite. Do U really think you are going to get an answer from Burnley on this? Explain to me how they can get away with taking someone's season ticket away but continue to allow them to pay on the door???

Either sign it as it is or don't ..your choice..but it's time you stood up to be counted as football fans...even if Burnley DO have a case...it's time the suits took note..it's OUR freakin' game..and if Burnley feel they can do without the services of three season ticket holders they obviously have better support and finace than I imagined.

BTW..I don't expect any part time freakin' armchair who doesn't attend matches to be remotely interested in this.

-- Anonymous, December 05, 2000

I agree entierly ITK, and go back to my origional point.

flags are often provocative, I wonder what was on them

Burnley facists, or something similar I would think.

-- Anonymous, December 05, 2000

Stewards, are they like the usherettes in a cinema. Yeah they can be nasty, I remember one time, they choc ice was all melted and when I asked the lady to change it she said no. cos it was opened, bastards!

-- Anonymous, December 05, 2000

goodnight Lanky and goodbye!

-- Anonymous, December 05, 2000

That's ok ITK...I know what sort of "fan" you are anyway ...c'ya

-- Anonymous, December 05, 2000

Your not allowed to enjoy yourselves at foot nowdays. Near me last season a young lad had a airhorn and was sounding the ussual parp parp parp parp parp . . . . . GEORDIES tune, untill this hitler of a steward told him once more and she would chuck him out so someone behind me sounded his horn and the steward thundered toward this lad and grabbed him , at this time I interjected and said it wasnt him 'Who was it then ' the steward said . I politley refused to tell. so no rattles no airhorns and the club provides no half time entertainment .

-- Anonymous, December 05, 2000

KB...it's for those reasons alone I implore all to stand United..whatever the truth about The Clarets.

-- Anonymous, December 05, 2000

I've signed it LR.....too many hitlers these days....

For some reason you seem to have wound Ken up very badly....he now no longer seems rational when you're about and immediately takes the opposite side in any argument or even turns it into an argument when it's a rational debate like he did yesterday.....can't you two kiss and make up?

-- Anonymous, December 05, 2000

Ask a simple question, eh? I just ask:
Any sign of Burnley's side to this story?
I get back:
Do I sense a feeling of "stuff them"? :-) I can not believe that anyone would require to hear Burnley's side of the story!!! ALL FC's are the same nowadays.....NUFC fans should know this as much as anyone in light of your recent treatment. LR - Get a grip. You might be spot on about these fans, but how the hell do I know? Sorry, but I'm not dogmatically anti-suit. You're bringing something from someone I don't know onto this forum expecting a reaction. If you expect everyone to go "Yes, clubs are all evil, where do I sign" like the bloody Stepford Wives, you've come to the wrong place. If these fans have been badly treated, I hope the club gets it's comeuppance. But just maybe we don't know the whole story. If you've got some spare time on the weekend, LR, I think there are some witch trials on round your neck of the woods. Burn the bastards! ;)

-- Anonymous, December 05, 2000

Gav, I wasn't arguing or taking the other side at all, (read the opening of my posting again for clarification)I was merely TRYING to take a dispassionate view of a complex problem, but some see that as arguing.

If anything I was actually agreeing with what he said but added the rider that I had to hear both sides first, but hey, why spoil a good petition with fact........I'll fuck off now will I?

-- Anonymous, December 05, 2000

Ooops sorry Ken....I thought you were jumping on LR again....hmm where did I leave my had and coat....

-- Anonymous, December 05, 2000

it's for those reasons alone I implore all to stand United..whatever the truth about The Clarets. So , fans are always right and stewards and the boards ofclubs are always wrong? What if the truth were that these lads had been repeatedly told by stewards to take their Flags down as they were blocking sponsors signs, and what if the flags said something like "Who the Feck are Man U" Could youm remove your signature from the petition. You have to know both sides before you start signing these things.

-- Anonymous, December 05, 2000

I am sorry Ken....HONESTLY :))

-- Anonymous, December 05, 2000

Hey Rik.....Don't start shouting and arguing......it'll only jump on you as well you know......

Just remember......NH supporters are NEVER wrong, we must bow and scrape to them at all time and do exactly as they say.....they are the given gods after all. Leave it to me to be the irrational one, lets face it, I'm only a part timer remember.

-- Anonymous, December 05, 2000

Aww come on Ken.....let's get married before you sulk with me :))

-- Anonymous, December 05, 2000

It wasn't aimed at you Gav.....and if I wasn't already married I would agree like a shot.......puff me....never....I just help them out when they are busy!

-- Anonymous, December 05, 2000

Being a part time suporter is better than being a GLORY HUNTER ken. I think the "Morcambe Moron" should support his local club (walsall?) or the one nearest his place of birth (Preston N E OR IS BURNLEY NEARER TO MORCAMBE?)Anyway I didn't know that LR was now a season ticket holder, How did he manage that? get one free with his expensive prawn sandwiches?

-- Anonymous, December 05, 2000

Gav...It's easy for the likes of me to make "friends"....

G.J. I agree that I am asking folk to sign it on the chance that the fans are right and not the club. I am assuming....purely assuming that these fans are right. It's time for revolution my friend...either jump on and reap the benefits or stand and watch passively like the good citizen you seem Nowt wrong with that BTW...but my fellow fan has been shafted for far too long for me to worry about who is actually right on this one and who is wrong. I see this as a tool to let the "suits" know that they can't keep shaggin' up...have you seen how many have signed that thing?

BTW...chill out..I'm into freedom of speech and all that bollox...and I respect your views and the views held by Ken even if he is a worm :-)

Respec'

-- Anonymous, December 06, 2000

I love the way Rik joins in the debate properly after it's got heated....nice.

Rik...the club has fucked up...why?...cos they will allow pay on the gate for these 3 but they have taken their ST's?...now you tell me what that tells you?

-- Anonymous, December 06, 2000

Rik....suck my dick....don't bring the old bandwaggon statements into this thread eh?...You know fuck all pal....and if U have a problem with me I'll give you the opportunity to tell me on the 30th ok?

PS..learn how to spell Morecambe and I'll stop laughing at you.

-- Anonymous, December 06, 2000

I'd be more inclined to sign the petition if it was to try and get some sort of independent ombudsman to represent fans in these cases. Nobody as far as I'm aware has impacted my 'freedom of thought and choice', I can still think what I want and chose what I want, even if I might not get what I want.
But going back to the ombudsman thing, football as a business is peculiar in that it can seemingly treat it's customers as it wants with limited comeback, unless they go and support someone else (not a solution for any of us, however irrational that may be). But football's always been like this, and it's always had it's share of officious idiots, with both the big clubs and your sunday league organisations - I personally think it's a problem with any sort of job that requires volunteers (like stewards). If fans are going to group together for solidarity, please let it be with a bit of direction not just some 'us and them' anti-suit diatribe.

-- Anonymous, December 06, 2000

Great Scott ! Is school out already ?

;o)

If anyone chances upon any more info/fact regarding this story then it would be appreciated if you could cut & paste here. Thanks

-- Anonymous, December 07, 2000

LR,

I think you should just support Morecambe and forget about Manure. Nobody would be bothered to hate you and just imagine.....you could slag of Rushden & Diamonds because they have the best players and they have all the money as well. The shoe would be on the other foot then.

Stewart Drummond 4 England! Up the Shrimps!

-- Anonymous, December 07, 2000