I wanted to contribute to the debate on here but I don't want to popularise some of the depressing thread titles seen recently so I'll start my own, in the hope of seeing the depressing titles slide off the screen. I've not seen so much spleen vented on here since the last time there was a lot of spleen vented. Don't tell me to be realistic. If I was realistic I'd have committed suicide years ago. ;-)

Barton - if the other 10 fought like Barton there would be no problem. The man is magnificent and can teach something to almost every single player in the squad. There may be times (like all other players) when his form drops and at such times (like any other player - regardless of status) he should be rested. Barton may well have the credentials to be a decent manager and if any of our players were to take over from YBR then I would sooner have Bartinho than any of them.

Freddie Shepherd. Apparently it's his fault according to Pete and Pit Bill elsewhere. Bollox. Pit Bill, you may not like him, you may prefer that he left, and you are fully entitled to that opinion. You can form a protest march on the issue if you want. What you can't do is substantiate an argument that Shepherd is responsible for the woeful recent performances. That responsibility lies squarely on the shoulders of the players selected and, unfortunately, on the man who picks them. For me, YBR still walks on water (although he's slipped in up to his waist at the moment) but he knows that he is the man to motivate these players. If they play as if they couldn't care less then he has to have serious words with them or their potential buyers.

As for Pete's comment that Freddie needs to loosen the purse strings, haven't you noticed how much YBR has spent so far? It's more than 16m I reckon off the top of my head. YBR's had very bad luck with most of that investment sidelined (Cort, Bassedas) due to injury plus injuries to existing players. There will be those who say yes - but he had to sell. Well, why not? The squad was (and still is) too large and needed pruning. It is silly to inflate the wage bill by adding new players without selling others. Freddie Shepherd has backed every Newcastle manager beyond the normal limits of financial prudence and is not to blame for the current malaise.

No, if you want scapegoats look elsewhere than Shepherd. Myself, I'll put recent form down to a leak in YBR's walk-on-water shoes which I trust and believe he can fix very soon.

(Cue the response ... "Cobblers") ;-)

-- Anonymous, December 01, 2000

Answers

No-one in their right mind can blame Sheepherd for the current state of play (even though thIMHO the bloke is a pr1ck of the highest order to whom I wouldnt give the steam off my well thats another story.) The fact is the guys are OLD, and getting older Barton 31, Shearer 30 , Lee 34, Speed 32, Gallagher 34, these guys cant be expected to run for 90 minutes.

Barton I agree has at times worked wonders but is allways capable of making a horrendous game loosing error ie: Pass back against Liverpool, Bringing the ball down on his chest in his own penalty area when surrounded against I forget who Bradford I think. He seems to be a backward player trying to control the ball under pressure , then hoofing it up the field / passing back when not under pressure.

Having said that If some of the midfield had the sense to attack the defence , a feat they are more than capable of , then we wouldnt be in this position now.

All in all its a team game and although individual errors cost we havnt played as a team all season .

-- Anonymous, December 01, 2000

".....Barton 31, Shearer 30 , Lee 34, Speed 32, Gallagher 34, these guys cant be expected to run for 90 minutes...

Kennyboy,
What you, and the other critics of our senior pros on here, are overlooking is that it precisely these senior pros who AREdemonstrating the passion and commitment, and are running for 90 minutes - it's the supporting actors who are letting us down, IMHO of course.

-- Anonymous, December 01, 2000

Clarky , I dont disagree what I do think tho is that the guys mentioned Bar Al maybe, cannot run for 90 mins they do try but physically cant keep it up for 90 mins. This is why we cant have lee and speed on together.

-- Anonymous, December 01, 2000

Jonno, I am in the Town today for a job interview and on seeing SJP on the horizon, I immediately cheered up so I am inclined to agree with you. However, I am starting to get worried about management/governance issues. The thing is, we are filling a ground with over 50,000 people but we can't afford players, we have massive debts and no immediate prospects on the youth front (and yesterday's pathetic youth cup attendance suggests that we don't deserve one). We really have to ask whether it is a time for change at the very top. I am not saying that Shepherd hasn't had the club's best interests at heart, but the predicament we're in now suggests that new ideas and new energies might be for the best. I'm sorry, but today's Journal covers the Academy of Light. I keep feeling that the Filthy Makems are just at the start of building something and we missed up on the opportunity to build on things by not investing properly when we were rolling in cash and are basically just teetering on the edge all the time.

-- Anonymous, December 01, 2000

Kennyboy,

I'll agree to the extent that we can't and shouldn't be so reliant on RL/GS in midfield. We have purchased other m/f players to do a job, and we must find out whether they can do it at this level.
I happen to think Rob Lee has been playing very well recently and I wouldn't leave him out - although as I indicated on other threads, I would have played both Acuna and Bassedas against Brum and given both RL & GS a rest.
GS has not been playing well and I would probably leave him out for a week or two to get over his neck injury and recharge his batteries.

WB would stay in my team - at RB - and I'd switch Griffin to LB where he's played extensively. Domi's heart just isn't in it here, and I'd sell him.

We don't the luxury of resting AS - although again it could sensibly have been done in midweek - and he needs to play on. Those who recommend dropping him, (including those 'fans' who have declared they actually hate him) without any adequate replacement are just living in cuckoo-land.

-- Anonymous, December 01, 2000

Jonno/Dougal,

I didn't really want to get into another FS debate on here. However, as usual I see we are mixing up two entirely different issues:

1) nobody should ever criticise FS for not having the best interests of the Club at heart, or for providing the maximum financial support to all his Team Managers. In fact, I have argued that he has perhaps been overly generous without adequate checks and balances being in place. This has then lead to me being criticised for suggesting that FS should 'interfere' on team matters. That has never, ever been my suggestion, but in any business there need to be checks and balances in place to ensure money is being spent judiciously - and football is no different, IMO.

2) there is far more to managing a plc than just ensuring a stream of money is provided to managers to spend. It is in the wider management of the business where I feel FS has failed, and will continue to fail.
Other than on the stadium development, his track record is poor on virtually every front: we have achieved zero on the playing front, and are arguably still in regression: the vitally important youth academy has been delayed ad nauseum (and I won't accept that the City Council are entirely to blame over this): the Club's relations with the City, it's shareholders and its customers has been a long-standing joke; and finally, the Club's financial situation has continually deteriorated since he took the helm from SJH.
The crux of the problem seems to be that he is ill-equipped to manage/direct a public company.
FS is unquestionably a Toon fan at heart, but business leadership must come from the very top of the organisation, and I'm afraid this particular business is clearly in distress.

-- Anonymous, December 01, 2000

Jonno
As well as loathing Shepherd as a person, I also happen to believe that if the atmosphere offstage, so to speak, isn't all it should be, (Shepherd being one of the main reasons why this might be so, IMHO), it wouldn't take much to convince me that the adverse effects could manifest themselves via the way the players perform on the pitch, and the attitude of the foreign players.

It's never been only paranoia that's prompted my version of what's wrong at SJP. While Sheperd was up to his antics without us being aware, he didn't have to watch his step. Having been shown up for what he is, he now has no option but to go through the motions of licking our asses.

He has a hell of a long way to go to get into my good books, never mind back into them. Not that that'll make him lose any sleep, mind.

-- Anonymous, December 01, 2000

Dougal >>>>no immediate prospects on the youth front

Is that so? Just the other day, Hughes was saying that we had a tremendous crop of youngsters coming through.

Good luck with the interview. Try and restrain yourself from a quick chorus of "Who the F**k are Man Utd". I don't think it will cut any ice with your potential employer (although it SHOULD).

-- Anonymous, December 01, 2000

So howay pet - what's the job? My bet is that it's with Northumbrian Waater, as Chief Floods Control Occifer. Of course, I could be wrong.....

-- Anonymous, December 01, 2000

Clarky Said.. We don't the luxury of resting AS - although again it could sensibly have been done in midweek - and he needs to play on. Those who recommend dropping him, (including those 'fans' who have declared they actually hate him) without any adequate replacement are just living in cuckoo-land.

Well im afraid we may according to todays ronnie , we may rest him for the villa game . Well I hope hes on the bloomin bench at least.

-- Anonymous, December 01, 2000

How Kennyboy..... I'm as much a 'fan' as you or anyone. I said I hate Shearer for cheating and I'll stand by that. If diving's the last trick in his book then his career is over. He doesn't need to do it and shouldn't.

I don't like cheats in any sport. I take it that you do? I'd rather lose playing fair.

-- Anonymous, December 01, 2000

(ahem) Geordie - In the interests of avoiding needless barnies down the track, I think if you have another read you'll find Kennyboy was actually quoting Clarky. Nae point yelling at the wrong fella ;o)

-- Anonymous, December 03, 2000

Aaal reet... apologies Kennyby

How clarky.... see above!

-- Anonymous, December 04, 2000

Geordie,

I'm not sure what point I'm supposed to answer - I quoted you accurately, and you've confirmed it. You're entitled to your view.

-- Anonymous, December 04, 2000

Accepted Geordie , even though I beleive if Al had'nt gone to ground we'd be loosing him for more than 1 month...

-- Anonymous, December 04, 2000

Clarky, Are you happy to have cheats in your team? I'm not. I was responding to your jibe that inferring that I'm not a fan 'cos I dislike one of our players.

-- Anonymous, December 04, 2000

Yeah, well, Geordie we appear to be cheating Shearer of the possibility of being able to walk in middle-age by giving him cortisone injections.

-- Anonymous, December 04, 2000

Geordie,

I'm sorry but I don't know where you got that from - where have I implied that you're not a fan when I know damned well you are?

Seeing as how you've asked, I do happen to believe your indictment of Alan Shearer was way too strong, and I'm still not convinced he dived.
I believe he was fouled, or perhaps more accurately, bodily obstructed by the keeper: he was also too close to the keeper to jump over him, and went over the keeper's body. Having seem it several times in 'slo-mo', I do think that as he went over the keeper he did a bit of a 'Greg Luganis' to convince the ref he'd been fouled.
Finally, I believe that if he hadn't made a bit of a meal of it the keeper might well have been sent off - I do feel it influenced the refs decision.

To answer your question - no I don't want to see Toon players cheating, but I neither do I believe that in this instance AS was guilty of cheating.

-- Anonymous, December 04, 2000

Clarky,

Your phrase "...including those 'fans' who ..." is the insult. Why put fans in quotes?

Anyho.... enough... life's too short. I think he dived and you don't.

Dougal, agree about the cortisone ... except he is fully aware of what he's doing and is not being forced. He can retire whenever he likes. It's his choice to keep on playing.

-- Anonymous, December 04, 2000

Geordie - he can't retire whe he wants. He has 4 years left on a contract with us. Also, do you thimnk he'd be taking these injections if we lived up to our billing as an ambitious, big club and had some other options up front?

-- Anonymous, December 04, 2000

Actually, Dougal, I think he would. He seems very pig-headed about playing until he's forced off. I really do believe he'd play on crutches and in full body cast if he was allowed. As I said elsewhere , I do admire his spirit. But think for his own benefit, someone has to be strong enough to make him rest once in awhile. We've managed without him before and we'll continue to do so. He seems to have the opposite problem to certain other players....he downplays his pain. And Bobby and the rest of his staff are probably only too happy to believe him simply because he is our best striker right now

-- Anonymous, December 04, 2000

The injuries Al has had plus cortisone injections = cripple in middle age. If he doesn't know this then he isn't right to manage the local post office let alone NUFC.

-- Anonymous, December 05, 2000

Bit strong that Doug. I'd hate to think the club are cynical enough to pump cortisone into him with no regard to the long term effects.

As I understand it, if it's used only when absolutely necessary, there shouldn't be any long term ill effects. It's pumping the stuff in at every sign of a niggle that does the damage.

Maybe the medics among us can enlighten me if me bum's out the window on that one.

-- Anonymous, December 05, 2000

I don`t know! Leave you lot alone for five minutes and look what happens! Shearer out with injury, the Club looking for a replacement for Wor Bobby, and didn`t last night`s result put Sunderland ahead of us in the league? You`re stressing out with LR on the `football chants` thread, and falling out on this one - oh and Pit Bill`s got his bum out the window! (;o)

-- Anonymous, December 05, 2000

Shades of the Canterbury Tales, Gal, and until somebody enlightens me re cortisone, it's staying there - the weather' s nee problem cos ahs git hard, me.

-- Anonymous, December 05, 2000

Actually PB, I've had ashoulder problem now for two years and have discussed the merits and demerits of cortisone with the specialist several times.

Cortisone is a steriod, and a very powerful anti-inflammatory. Tendonitis is an inflammation of the fibres in the tendon - which I believe (but am not totally sure)'fastens' the muscle to a bone. A direct cortisone injection is intended to drastically reduce the inflammation.

The problem is that cortisone also softens the tendon, and weakens it. Because of this cortisone MUST be used sparingly. I suspect all physicians have their own view on this, but my guy was very reluctant to give me more than two injections, and indicated three was the absolute maximum he would ever consider administering.

-- Anonymous, December 05, 2000

Thank you Dr.Who. I shall now withdraw my nether regions from public scrutiny.

-- Anonymous, December 06, 2000

Cortisone (kor'ti-son) A hormone isolated from the cortex of the adrenal gland and also prepared synthetically. It is closely related to cortisol, and is largely inactive in man until it is converted to cortisol. It is important for its regulatory action in metabolism of fats, carbohydrates, sodium, potassium, and proteins. Also used as an anti-inflammatory agent. (From Taber's Cyclopedic Medical Dictionary.)

That is the medical definition of cortisone. We know it mainly as an anti-inflammatory medication, taken either orally, injected, used as a topical cream, or inhaled. By being an anti-inflammatory, you would think it was a useful, good medication. Something that powerlifters would want to use to help heal minor or major strains or sprains. However, in the last several years there has been mounting evidence to the contrary. Even the USOC has banned the use of it except in special cases.

At one time, cortisone was reputed to be a miracle drug or "cure-all," but was found to be much more complex than initially thought. Serious side effects and multiple injuries occurred. High dosages must be quickly tapered; or the adrenals could quit producing natural cortisol.

Some of the conditions cortisone is used to treat are asthma, arthritis, head injuries and even cancer. However, lately it has been discovered that cortisone also has a nasty side effect: it causes bones to die, damaging hips, shoulders and arms. For example, in Canada alone, 5,000 hip replacements per year could be due to cortisone. Here in the United States, it is estimated that 25 percent of the 500,000 hip replacement surgeries performed annually are a result of prescriptive corticosteroid use. Some other estimates are that it accounts for 10% of all joint replacement surgeries. It usually attacks the weight-bearing joints, such as the hip, but it can also destroy the wrists, shoulders, and ankles. What seems to happen is that near the end of the bone, the blood supply gets cut off, causing it to degenerate and crumble and eventually die. This is commonly called avascular necrosis (AVN). How it does this is still currently a mystery. Topical creams and inhalers that contain cortisone seem to be less of a risk to damaging bones when used.

Not a drug i'd like to take too often....

-- Anonymous, December 06, 2000

I bet Shearer has taken it a few times.

-- Anonymous, December 06, 2000

How much would it cost to rebuild him?

-- Anonymous, December 06, 2000

Dont ask me ask Oscar Goldman ;-)

-- Anonymous, December 06, 2000

Seem to think they know what the problem was! I am still to be convinced and reckon that Shearer should have had the op to get to the bottom of it. They seem to be covering over it like they did in Euro 2000. At that stage it was because he was playing his last few games and now it's because we have no cover.

The player himself quickly declared his intention to bounce back sooner ­and yesterday the club revealed that the injury has responded so well to treatment that the op has been cancelled. "The manager has confirmed that there will be no surgery," said a club spokesman.

-- Anonymous, December 06, 2000