Temporal Paradox

greenspun.com : LUSENET : Aeon Flux : One Thread

The world is defined to us by our peers. We construct an inner room in which reality is comfortable. The laws of which are constant, physics, gravity, time, concepts. 'Aeon Flux' opened the door of that room and we viewed the wild otherworld outside. To quote, "In the world of Aeon Flux such temporal paradox is possible". Laws are challenged outside that room, existence is no longer concrete. I have to wonder if the lovers of this show are not drawn here because of the recognition of this. I listened to a show tonight regarding near death experiences, and the documented stories that I myself am skeptical of. There sheer number defying disbelievers. The sci-fi of life itself. "We are only aeons in a flux of a universe, there is no point in living if you can't feel alive". I think there is more to life than can fit in our personal rooms.

-- Barb e. (Suesuesbeo@aol.com), November 30, 2000


Oh oh, one of us has gone off the deep end.

-- Barb e. (Suesuesbeo9@cs.com), August 03, 2002.

Skye, I was wondering since you work at NASA; what are your thoughts on the face on Mars and that whole Cydonian buried city thing?

-- Barb e. (Suesuesbeo9@cs.com), September 07, 2002.

LOL. You know, I should know better than to leave my homework till the last minute and stay up doing it till 2:30 am, (0230 to you Paul) and THEN go on the board. Late night thoughts...different.

-- Barb e. (Suesuesbeo@aol.com), November 30, 2000.

Those are always the best thoughts. For me, anyway. By the way, I agree with your post.

-- Matthew Rebholz (matrebholz@yahoo.com), November 30, 2000.

Hey, who said I was on military time? Yeah, I do think that shows like Aeon require a certain... curiousity to be fully enjoyed. I've always been fascinated by the unknown. Scientifically speaking, near-death visions are caused by the release of dimethyltryptamine into the brain (AKA DMT, the active ingredient in ayahuasca), but then, Einstein did say that he believed in reincarnation, if only because our atoms are always present.

-- Paul (gilbreathfamily@worldnet.att.net), December 01, 2000.

There are a lot of things in this world that are unexplainable, though. I knew about the near death thing, that's what I believe. However, did you know that scientists are currently learning so much about space that they are discovering that our current theories and math equasions don't quite work and they are uneasily aware that there may be something radically wrong with some of our basic scientific beliefs about the universe?

-- Barb e. (Suesuesbeo@aol.com), December 02, 2000.

You mean, about the universe expanding? Yeah, that is weird... that is some weird, wild stuff.

-- Paul (gilbreathfamily@worldnet.att.net), December 02, 2000.

No. There are all sorts of new facts about our known universe that are challenging old thoughts. One comes to mind regarding areas of shadow, the old belief being the shadow area was simply the abscence of light, they now are thinking there actually is another substance that is the shadow.

-- Barb e. (Suesuesbeo@aol.com), December 02, 2000.

I came across this fact a few months ago, scientists were able to increase the speed of light by slightly less the 3X. When they figure out how to do this with more than light, like say a message(electornic) , we will then know if time travel is possible. At least in the way that Einstein stated. I personally beleive that it's bullox but I'm no phyasist.That misprint is for Barb E. All other my want to the word to read physicist.

-- nadar (nadar@BigPoppaPump.zzn.com), December 02, 2000.

I'm no phyasist either, but that is interesting. I have read that they have sent so much electricity through an object, through the use of transformers, that the object, although stationary, disappeared for a few minutes, and then reappeared. It is believed to have traveled through time during it's missing moments.

-- Barb e (Suesuesbeo@aol.com), December 07, 2000.

Don't know if anyone will find this interesting, but today scientists anounced they have found a supercluster of quasars and galaxies massed together across 600 million light years of space and it is the largest structure in the observable universe. "That such a large structure could form so quickly after the Big Bang calls into question some of the traditional theories of how the universe evolved, since it is difficult to explain how gravity could pull together such an immense cluster in such a relatively short time". The big question, here of course, is how in the world is it that these guys know the time it took to pull this thing together in order to get pushed out of shape over it? I'm guessing it has to do with measuring the time of the light to travel, as this is what they always seem to be doing, measuring light...

-- Barb e. (Suesuebeo@aol.com), January 13, 2001.

Those last 2 posts were very interesting, do you remember where you read that bit about the electricity?

It seems that they make a large number of assumtions on the Big Bang theory. It may work out in some equations but someone might come up with new equations, and then its all shot to hell. This used to turn me off of science but now I like the fact the all ideas are kept in constant "flux".

They say in theory anyway, with enough energy you can do anything. Well to misdirect this slightly, people claim that they can turn their thought into reality(telekenisis). I've seen show on "discovery" that they dealt with this in lab conditions and some people can affect changes is linnear things if they try hard enough. Now then they had a scientist who said this was impossible, because the human brain doesn't contain enough energy do do these things. I think that all people are familiar with Chi, or Reiki or body energy. It seems to draw power from sources outside the body if we could learn to force feed the body enough of this energy then we could do anything with concentration.

This is all of course theory. Wonderful theory.

-- Nadar unlitmited (nadar@BigPoppaPump.zzn.com), January 14, 2001.

Perhaps they are so close because thats the center of the universe?

P.S. I wish I could just work up the brain power to defeat my spelling problems.

-- NAdar (nadar@BigPoppaPump.zzn.com), January 14, 2001.

The answer to that is as interesting as the bit about the electricity, its from an interview with Mad Man Markum, circa Art Bell. Only one pic of Markum and it's rare, one look and you'll discount my sources, so I'll admit to it's questionablity here and now. Art Bell returns Feb 5th! Wanna take a ride?.......Markum himself, poor dear, made off with many a transformer of high voltage, dedicating it to science and his 'time machine' and tried to time travel through time himself. Poor departed Mad Man. Yet he read a lot, and in one of the fascinating interviews with him he mentions in his quest for scientific knoweldge regarding time travel he mentions this fascinating little story about the disappearing object.

-- Barb e. (Suesuesbeo@aol.com), January 15, 2001.

Mad Man Markum: http://img.coasttocoastam.com/img/micrograv.jpg

-- Barb e. (Suesuesbeo@aol.com), January 15, 2001.

Going back to read the post, I pose a question to myself and others, on the note of near death experiences. They can recreate the near death visions in a lab or what have you. If there is no spiritual side to existence what is the function of the death expereience? Most things about people can be traced back to survival characteristics, but not this, nature would have no reason to have a animal that feels assured before it dies.

I myself do beleive in reincarnation, and other things of the spirit. Just so you know where I'm coming from.

-- Awareness never dies (nadar@BigPoppaPump.zzn.com), January 15, 2001.

Did I miss something, what is that picture? Is this the Mad Man? Can you help out a brothr in need? This picture only raises futher questions.

-- Ndr d (nadar@BigPoppaPump.zzn.com), January 15, 2001.

Oui, Pour Le Mad Man Markum...

-- Barb e. (Suesuesbeo@aol.com), January 16, 2001.

Ahh yes Science is a beautiful thing, the world around us is constantly changing, and we have no choice but to go with it. science is always coming up with something new, only to have it proved wrong, that's what's great about it, never ending, always chaning. i do agree with the earlier post that the brain does bizzar and wonderful things while all else sleeps. Barb that mad max guy is a real character, but very interesting. i enjoyed the post about the cluster of galaxies, it really makes one think. :O)

-- Lady Morgan (AeonFluxFan1@aol.com), January 16, 2001.

I never beleived the universe expolded. Is that how it is it just shrinks, and shrinks until all the energy(no mass) expodes and then spreads, and spreads and then starts to shrink again. Its been doing this for all infinity. Well I just don't buy it, they don't know its shrinking, they don't know it expanded. Its all theory and they are going to learn so much by the time I die they will have reinvented the universe several times over. If you look at what Einstein said you might just start to perceive all mass as an illusion all energy is light, we are energy then wouldn't we just be light?(I have been known to misinterpret these theories before so someone please tell me if I got it right.)

If we could exceed the speed of light(humans) and we are just light than it would seem that we would loose parts of ourselves in the travel.

-- Nadar (nadar@BigPoppaPump.zzn.com), January 24, 2001.

Sorry if I wasted your time, I think that I got the Einstein part wrong, we are not light we are energy, that the mistake I went through part of a book on myofacial release and tried to condense it and I came out with that slightly mixed up theory. The author had the idea that we where light and had some of Einsteins thoughts thrown in, also in the mix were bits and peices of string theory. Does anyone here know "String Theory" well?

-- NAdar A. (nadar@BigPoppaPump.zzn.com), January 25, 2001.

As long as we're talking Einstein, here's another quote from him; "One of the strongest motives that lead men to art and science is escape from everyday life with its painful crudity and hopeless dreariness, from the fetters of one's own ever-shifting desires. A finely tempered nature longs to escape from the personal life into the world of objective perception and thought". Proof positive that Einstein would've watched Aeon Flux, far as I'm concerned.

-- Barb e. (Suesuesbeo@aol.com), January 25, 2001.

I think that Einstein would have not watched Aeon. He would have been too busy coming up with radical new theories. Although if he did take a moment from traveling other dimension he may have indeed enjoyed a flux or two. It is interesting that he although a pure genius enjoyed almost no parctical thought, he had his house covered with all these coloured reminders and direction on things like which way a door knob was to turn etc. he was indeed a creature of the mind. I've also heard that he was a "multi-dimesional" a person who travels dimensions in their sleep. These are of course unproven facts. But it would explain the jumps in logic he made, although until your that smart you just won't know how he thought. We are given a sad 5-15% of our brain to work with, extraoridnary people have slightly more. What happened to mankind in our evolution to cause us to shut out so much of our concious mind? Does anyone have any theories on why our brains have so much capability and almost no ability to access it?

-- Talk Show Jon (nadar@BigPoppaPump.zzn.com), January 26, 2001.

Actually, everyone uses 100% of their brain. The "5-15%" myth came from a time when scientists didn't know about redundancy... now we know the brain has many, many "backup" systems running. It's just not a question of sheer physical mass; Einstein really did think different.

-- Paul (gilbreathfamily@worldnet.att.net), January 28, 2001.

Excuse me, I meant gray matter, not physical mass. What I mean is, there wasn't anything different physically about Einstein.

It's a good question, though; why do some people seem to be "wired" differently than others?

-- Paul (gilbreathfamily@worldnet.att.net), January 28, 2001.

Hey. Haven't written in this forum since its first few months, but I've read it all along. i just thought I'd comment on this last post. It turns out that Einstein's brain *was* in fact significantly different from yours or mine. There's some question as to whether this caused, or was the cause of, his brilliance, but an article on this find can be found in TIME (along with every other major publication) here: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,27180,00.html

Also, Nadar, a couple points on your posts. The bit about making light travel faster than the supposed speed of light is true and has been known for a while. But it refers only to phase velocity, not group velocity. If you think of what happens when you drop a pebble in a pond, the outer ring of ripples expands at a certain rate, but there are many ripples which form from the center, travel outward until they reach the current edge of the circle, and then dissappear. These ripples each travel faster than the overall speed at which the circle of ripples is propagating. Light, which is treated as a waveform for these type of mechanics, behaves the same way. It is indeed possible to have individual "ripples" travel at a phase velocity which is faster than the speed of light, but the overall waveform is not propagated faster than light. Thus, sending a message from point a to point b cannot be done faster than light. An article on this and other superluminal effects is found at http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/FTL.html#1 And is also found in Steven Hawkings book "Six Easy Pieces," I think.

Finally, they do know for a fact that the universe is currently expanding, because they can observe galaxies moving always farther away from each other. The debate is over whether there is enough mass in the universe so that it will ever *stop* expanding and collapse (which could imply that this has occurred before), or whether it will expand forever.

Cheers, P

-- P D (Snazzman@hotmail.com), January 28, 2001.

Thank you SnazzMan now I feel even less smart. I was feeling smart until a moment ago. So when I saw this amazing new device that makes light faster on discovery a few months ago it was old news, well shit! This is terrific P D will please post more you seem to have me throught the ringer. Please come here and post points of interest more often.

Does this bit about redundancy mean that we use our brain in sections, or what? I've never heard this redundacy bit before. So we do use all of it just not at the same time?

If the universe do collapse on itself that would make the bible version of apocalypse a little redundant.

-- Rick Mercier (nadar@BigPoppaPump.zzn.com), January 30, 2001.

It's true that we only use part of our brain at any given time. But what I mean is, the brain has many different pathways for each function. As I understand it, these are a safety measure; they don't really do anything special, just lie dormant until they are needed.

-- Paul (gilbreathfamily@worldnet.att.net), February 01, 2001.

So if they just lye dormant... Could you possibly get them to stimulate? Perhaps getting them to re-function by creating a sustaned need for more intellect. Just an idea I don't want to limit myself.

-- Rick Mercier (nadar@BigPoppaPump.zzn.com), February 01, 2001.

I have been meaning to get back to this column for a couple of weeks now. The string theory fascinates me, I first heard about it in an interview with a renowned scientist, on Art Bell's show. Evidently the universe may be made up of string-shaped particles, and the strings move through space-time. The strings vibrate and depending on their vibrations they are protons or electrons. There is also a mode describing the graviton, the particle carrying the force of gravity, this is extremely important because evidently in quantum physics theory they couldn't make sense of the interaction between two gravitons, but in string theory they can. The other great thing about he string theory is that you have the freedom to describe other interactions, and this leads to what they call the "Theory of Everything" which is pretty grandoise. All this is interesting because according to string theory there is 10 dimensions to apace- time, (right now there are only 3) but the other dimensions are curled up so tightly we cannont be aware of their existence. Pretty darn interesting.

-- Barb e. (Suesuesbeo@aol.com), February 01, 2001.

eww, spelling errors. I meant space-time. So perhaps Aeon and Trevor really could go forward in time and then come home, because according to string theory, I think the strings can move foward and backward in time. Here is where I am going to insert a little 'time warp' story of my own, hope you believe me, I swear to you this did happen to me, in the interest of science (also history) I make great efforts to be honest: My brother and I went for a ride, about 10 years ago now, and were talking. As we drove down a road far on the outskirts of Phoenix, with nothing around, but open spaces and mountains, was a new road. Crossing the road, out in the open desert, were 5 people. The clothes they wore were drab colors, and they looked depressed, there were 2 women and 3 men, they crossed right in front of our car! We had to come to a full stop so as not to hit them, they looked at us and we looked at them, they looked as if they stepped right out of the grapes of wrath, dust bowl times, and as we stopped, with them right in front of our car, they suddenly just were not there!! For years I believed it was a 'ghost story' but someone listening to me describe this said it seemed more like a 'time warp'.

-- Barb e. (Suesuesbeo@aol.com), February 01, 2001.

hey, that is a cool story Barb, and believable because it happened to you.

-- William (stateofflux@yahoo.com), February 01, 2001.

When I read, I hear 11 dimensions. Sounds more like a ghost story, however if time is energy like all other things all you need is the right vibration. Thats what I hear anyhow. Everything is vibration all things,. Thats the key to the universe. All things are possible with enough of and the right kind of vibration. Don't worry about traveling fast for time travel just cause the correct type of vibration and some way of having time recognize you vibration and there you have it(I'm a profoundly simple man).

P.S. Only you know what you experienced and truth is a very personal thing. Glad to see you make spelling errors.

-- Rick Mercier (nadar@BigPoppaPump.zzn.com), February 01, 2001.

Snazzman, thanks for the reference to the Einstein article about Einstein's inferior parietal lobe being 15% larger than other men his age, of course the question is did he develop it through use? The obvious answer is heck, no one else has done what he has. Just goes to show what a dreamer can accomplish, (riding through space on a beam of light indeed)...

-- Barb e. (Suesuesbeo@aol.com), February 04, 2001.

Tomorrow night, 2/6/01 Art Bell has on Michio Kaku, and he's discussing Einstein, beyond superstings, and parallel universes,time warps ect, if anyone wants to listen it is a live broadcast you can get on real player or windows media, at www.artbell.com.

-- Barb e. (Suesuesbeo@aol.com), February 06, 2001.

Forgot to mention, he's a professor of theoretical physics.

-- Barb e. (Suesuesbeo@aol.com), February 06, 2001.

I learned just yesterday, from TLC(my blessed teacher) that they have invented a teleporter, they can move a atom from one side of a lab to the other, without them ever having to phyically make the jorney. I missed a little of the article because I was yelling at my dad to turn on his T.V. but a beam of light started at one point, and ended in a completely seperate, disjointed space. (writers note, try to find about what really happend yourself, my abilty to remember details becomes so very skechy when I become very excited.)

-- (hammerofthehorse@BigPoppaPump.zzn.com), March 19, 2001.

check this site out: http://www.anomalies.net/time_traveler/ you may be looking at a real time machine.

-- Barb e. (Suesuesbeo@aol.com), March 21, 2001.

Very interesting website Barb. I especially liked reading the DOD's "black budget" and how fraiser is brainwashing the american public! Seriously, though it was cool. What are your thoughts on the Aurora spy plane? I'd love to see that pulse combustion engine in action.

-- Jack (eashtonusa@netscape.net), March 21, 2001.

Haha, ok this sites a tad fringy, but hey, you don't believe the Frasier thing? LOL. I think this machine is very well thought out to just be an ordinary hoax, its done by a someone who is well informed and the lingo for the blueprints alone is priceless. In that way I think its interesting to check it all out.

-- Barb e. (Suesuesbeo@aol.com), March 22, 2001.

There was some interesting stuff on there and besides I DO think tv brainwashes people. They turn on to learn what to wear, how to talk, how to think, who to vote for, ect...but I'm not sure if its some preconceived plot by "them" haha. I'm no electronics specialist but that time machine might have been a plastic box with batteries in it for all I know. Those blue prints and technical manual did seem a little in depth though. Maybe it was part of a project the military started but got canned? Ever hear the rumor about the Navy sending one of its ships back in time and it appeared like in south africa or something? PS: I really am interested in the Aurora though and whether or not it exists. I read this book by Isaac Asimov a while back were he theorized about the pulse combustion engine so if this thing is for real and it does in fact use Asimov's engine then its a major advancement!

-- Jack (eashtonusa@netscape.net), March 22, 2001.

T.V. and brainwashing, hmmm.....yes I do believe that; especially the vote part. However I outsmart them, I don't watch hardly any t.v. and to boot I don't go to the movies much, ha! I also don't read the paper; (basically I'm uniformed) but they hate me (this section of the public they'd like to believe doesn't exist or doesn't count) I'm sure. Also; I believe they manipulate the stock market through t.v. all the time, they are a greedy lot out there, but...enough, here's something to stir your interest: the reason I ended up looking at this little time machine is as follows,I went to Art Bell's website; looked at 'post to post', time traveler from 2036, and no, I don't tend to believe in guys from the future, and the following post piqued my interest; on page 44, from some guy named Rick Donaldson; "I have examined them (the pics of the machine itself) and have not changed my opinion on the machine - it "looks" real enough from a military/government perspective. Even the manuals appear to be what they are perported to be. One thing to note, which I can not remember if I mentioned before - and I am sure no one else has at this point, is a yellow object in the upper part of the picture of the machine in the vehicle. The yellow device is a geiger counter. I'm familiar with THAT machine specifically - not just gieger counters, but THAT model. I've used it. I carried two of them in tactical weather gear in the 1970's and 80's. I also used one of those devices extensively during my stay at the White House from 1989-1992 during training at a facility outside of DC, where we trained for NBC (nuclear/biological/chemical) warfare. More specifically I used them during training for "shelter management" where we each played President and others Anyway, that is a real device. If you look carefully, you will see an older "CD" or Civil Defense sticker on the side. The device is rather old though - probably built in the mid to late 70s and was an important piece of gear in my weather systems and shelters I took care of in those days. It could have come from old stocks of military gear (in 2013 or later) or it could have come from surplus store in 1999 or 2000. Not sure.

I did want to point out what it was though." Pretttttty interesting, huh?

-- Barb e. (Suesuesbeo@aol.com), March 23, 2001.

I've heard Art Bell is a real loon and for that reason I of course should start listening to his radio show! I've always had a strange interest in all that pseudo-science type stuff even though I only believe a little of it. It sounds like you've done some interesting work. Are you in the Metrology field?

-- Jack (eashtonusa@netscape.net), March 23, 2001.

I meant Meteorology of course...

-- Jack (eashtonusa@netscape.net), March 23, 2001.

No, I'm spent a lot of time starving as an artist and then went back to school to become a registered nurse. Actually, if you listen to Art enough you get to realize he has an excellent interview style and believes few of his guests, but has a passion for the paranormal, when its real, and sometimes its incredible what can be real. Maybe you could call me an amateur Aeonologist though.

-- Barb e. (Suesuesbeo@aol.com), March 23, 2001.

That sounds cool. Everyone should try out the starving artist thing for a while. I would be interested in checking out art bell someone recommended him to me a while back. I was watching the first Aeon Flux tape today acually. I'm finding that I like Aeon more and more as I watch them because I'm starting to understand more and more of it a big part of it because of some of the discussion on this board. You guys pick up on a lot of stuff I wouldn't have.

-- Jack (eashtonusa@netscape.net), March 23, 2001.

What defines paranormal? Does it have to be unproven science to paranormal? I've never been quite clear on what it is exactly that seperates the theory of evolution, from the theory of alien abduction.

-- (hammerofthehorse@BigPoppaPump.zzn.com), March 29, 2001.

The theory of evolution is a idea built around proven facts. Evolution is indeed a fact supported by hard data. The problem is the way scientists use the word "theory" and the way the public uses it are very different. To the layperson a theory is just a guess. Alien abduction on the other hand has no solid conclusive evidence. Thats what seperates the two.

-- Jack (eashtonusa@netscape.net), March 29, 2001.

Well I suppose so, although it seem that there is often substantial evidence for "paranormal" science. I used alien, not for any personal passion, but because it is one that seems to have physical evidence to go with it. From blood on sheets, scars, implants, and personal testimony. They find cave drawings of obese people, thats evidence that obeseity existed in the ice age. Find a ancient carving of an alien and its "unexplainable". That kind of thing makes me laugh. People(especially me) see what they want, and beleive what they can handle.

-- (hammerofthehorse@BigPoppaPump.zzn.com), March 30, 2001.

Scars, peices of metal found in people, personal testimony, ect, are inconclusive but I do agree with you. It would be great if science would approuch things with more of a open mind and at least consider possibilities. The book "Forbbiden Archeology" is about that type of thing. It details tons of evidence that condradicts our current conceptions of the past.

-- Jack (eashtonusa@netscape.net), March 30, 2001.

So what you're saying, Nadar, is that we ate the aliens? :-)

-- Inukko (nadisrec@worldnet.att.net), March 30, 2001.

Yep we sure did, and now they won't meet with us again. What they don't understand is food isn't so hard to come by as it was back then.

I was fortunate enough to see a show on this late last night, on TLC and it was kinda interesting till they got to the part of our interstellar, near future. That was absolutely incredible. Have you ever heard of the solar sail? It would just be a giant(like 1/4 kilometer), peice of carbon material that would propel off the suns rays. So we advanced from sail boats, only to return to sail technology. The other great possibilty is ion engines, they burn fuel more effieciently the faster they go so they will be able to burn fuel for ten times longer then conventionl engines. The only drawback, is that it pushes with an exceeding gentlness. The thrust is similar to a human hand holding up a peice of paper. In space however it could over time build a fantastic momentum. Not bad for a speicies that can't agree on wheather or not it landed on the moon, huh?

-- (hammerofthehorse@BigPoppaPump.zzn.com), March 31, 2001.

I just learned today that a local radio station carries Art Bell late at night I fully intend to listen to and I mean listen to this show.

-- Mark (hammerofthehorse@BigPoppaPump.zzn.com), May 24, 2001.

You know barb at I went through most the Michael Marum interveiws and it is quite interesting although I'd like to know where you found out how he died. So unless its at the end of the Art Bell package on him, please let me know where you found that out.

I'm resonably convinced that he in all practical terms was a genius. However just a little rough around the edges.

-- Mark (hammerofthehorse@BigPoppaPump.zzn.com), June 04, 2001.

Know what else I heard on Art Bell, a British lady got around 6 minutes of U.F.O that is about 3 miles wide hovering above her house. She sold it to somekind of T.V. guy from the states. however the cool part is that NASA requested to see the footage, to get this, compare it to footage taken during a orbital mission. That is wild! Don't beleive me, wait and see it'll be on your tv soon enough, then they'll debate if its fake or not. sounds awful hard to fake though.

-- MARK-pretaining to mars (hammerofthehorse@BigPoppaPump.zzn.com), June 04, 2001.

While I DO believe that there is life out there elsewhere in the universe, I find it awfully hard to believe that beings intelligent enough to have mastered interstellar travel, don't have ways of concealing themselves from human view (especially if they ARE taking people away for human experimentation). I think a LOT of people actually DO see things in the sky, but I think they immediately attribute things they don't recongize as being of alien origin.

Think about all the things we see or hear about being at concept car shows and air shows. If we never heard or saw anything about them and then there one is in our driveway or hovering above our house, we'd probably attribute it to aliens. (Remember in Back to the Future, when Marty McFly arrives in the past in the delorian, and he's wearing the radiation protective gear and his then teenage dad totally freaks? - I think we do a lot of that - and I wish there were a less cheesy movie I could think of to illustrate my point - but at the moment I can't).

-- Pixi (pixiness@yahoo.com), June 05, 2001.

I'm no champion of aliens, but dammit the "Pheonix Lights" WTF was that? It might not be aliens, but then again, after just a few years after mastering the car, we put people in orbit. Just think what we(the almight end of intelect) could do with say a paltry thousand years. We could be anywhere. Its not so out of the realm of possiblity that some other form of smart monkey, a billion light years away learned to travel sapce/time. It just doesn't blow my mind, so I'm much more willing to beleive. Know what if those crazy ships are built here on earth, now in this time well then i'm even more inclined to beleive that so other kind being could do it.

We don't conceal ourselves from the animals we abduct we are better armed, smarter and more able. We just go in start shooting tranquilizers then when we've tagged, locked up or tissue sampled the poor creatures, we simply let them wake up.

I like back the the future, well 1 and 2. Again I wish I haden't mentioned the aliens, it would almost sound like I give a rats ass if they exist or not. Its just cool , socialogicaly speaking. I love that though gov't denies all knowlege, then NASA asks to see footage, huh? That is of course if the story is correct, and not complete lie.

-- Mark (hammerofthehorse@BigPoppaPump.zzn.com), June 05, 2001.

A close friend of mine saw the Phoenix lights and swears it was like 10 miles across and blocked out all the stars. He was on the freeway and said everyone on the freeway saw it and everyone slowed down and were almost not watching where they were driving as they looked up, and it was scary. He doesn't really lie but I find it incredible noneless...

-- Barb e. (Suesuesbeo@aol.com), June 06, 2001.

Mark, I'm glad you like Art Bell. I love that show, it's just on so darn late, but as for Mad Man Markum and his demise; I was turned on to the show by a close friend who has listened for years, in fact has gotten on the show back 8 years ago twice, ( I am amazed, he ACTUALLY spoke with Art Bell!) Anyhow he said he read in Time magazine that Mad Man was found in his garage on his machine, ride halted, as he was now toast. Art never refers to it and I often wonder why. Recently a man asked Art when's he going to put on Markum again and Art said he cannot be found to interview, I don't know if he's aware and not wanting to divulge it or the story from my friend is bogus, but he says not.

-- Barb e. (Suesuesbeo@aol.com), June 06, 2001.


-- mark (hammerofthehorse@BigPoppaPump.zzn.com), June 06, 2001.

I've never really heard an entire Art Bell broadcast, I've fell asleep to it for like the past week or so but I just can't stay awake through those long add blocks.

-- Mark (hammerofthehorse@BigPoppaPump.zzn.com), June 06, 2001.

Mark, I totally see a great deal of merit in your argument about why aliens wouldn't conceal themselves, because we don't. What if it IS actually like AF and we or they are just future or past evolutions of the same species? That would do an awful lot to explain why so many "abductee" accounts agree that the beings they encountered acted and appeared similar to humans (walking upright, 2 eyes, etc.)

-- pixi (pixiness@yahoo.com), June 07, 2001.

Whoa! You know that would make sense perhaps. They have every right to abduct us because they are us? Looking for their own missing link I guess. :<{

-- Mark (hammerofthehorse@BigPoppaPump.zzn.com), June 07, 2001.

ooooooooh! I didn't think of it that way. Makes you wonder if that "is" the case (them looking for their own missing link), why specifically they need us. Are we the last evolution free from a particular defective gene? Do we hold some sort of answer for their future? Lots of possiblities

-- pixi (pixiness@yahoo.com), June 08, 2001.

Now your freaking me out!

-- Mark (hammerofthehorse@BigPoppaPump.zzn.com), June 08, 2001.

Mark, Pixi, you two got me thinkin that what if those aliens aren't really trying to find a missing link, but are in fact trying to alter us into them?

-- Joe Solomon (CaptSolomon@xena.com), July 29, 2001.

That gives me an idea for a sci fi story I can add to my web site :)

-- Joe Solomon (CaptSolomon@xena.com), July 29, 2001.

Why would they make us them? Wouldn't it be more prudent and smarter of them to make us different then them so we serve a unique purpose in the slave army. Hence our eviromental problems. We are perhaps being bread into chemical resistant soldiers. It would make sence but unfortunately I beleive the ultimate in known corporeal intelect would be as a majority benevolent.

-- Marks (nadar@BigPoppaPump.zzn.com), August 04, 2001.

It's funny that this thread got some thought again recently. This weekend I watched 12 monkeys again, and it's funny how that scenario somewhat fits what we're speaking about here. Could it be possible that an "alien" race (although they could just be later evolutions of humankind) is looking for the cure to a deadly virus that supposedly started in our time and eventually in their time lead to the near- extinction of the human race? Just a thought....

-- pixi (pixiness@yahoo.com), August 06, 2001.

i have done it, i have figured out at what pitch to the fabric of time will slipt and allow to enter the 'Aeon Flux'.

-- Justin (revised14@aol.com), August 01, 2002.

Ive been thinking about this for a while. Anyone have any anwsers for it.

What is Nothing?

isnt there always something, a color, a object, a sence of some sort? How can there be nothing? what is nothing like?

Also how can there be nothing if theres an anwser then nothing is something and nothing means nothing and so on.

Also where is the beggining and the end?

Think about that.

-- Steve. (tarddw@hotmail.com), November 29, 2002.

The gods have made us, the world, the universe. The gods are the Universe. If the gods gave us the ability to imagine, then what are our limits? Are there limits? Do limits exist? A simple creature such as a fish fulfills its expected destiny, by living in the sea, that is a fish's limits, but for humans, we can imagine and dream, are there limits to dreams? I think not.

Is it possible to fulfill an imagination that see's no limits? has no bounds? Perhaps its possible to maniupulate the limits? I f limits are mutable then how can we be so sure of life itself? life has a limit, death, the inevitable imutable outcome of all existence and life itself. But if a limit and a bound is mutable we can avoid the outcomes? we can bring to us things the limits prohibited? TimeTravel? psychokinesis? Telekinesis? Clairvoyance? Anything our mind can imagine and percieve is then doable, and very much aquireable. In A conclusion I must end this rant and most likley, reality drunken, non-understandable, speech with "Why must we succomb to the limits when our minds have the ability to avoid them? Why not exploit this ability to a worldly beneficial act, or even a self beneficial act."

-- Home Groowne J. (loosecannon12@hotmail.com), November 30, 2002.

Yet if what Karen Annarino said is true, then the only life that counts are the great globules of energy emanating from the forever dolphin waves what had us bound in theer understanding, but what we couldn't have seen anyway in the first points that she made was right on about. And that stuff what she writes about, the sex-union power that she feels when she has her sex-craft practice sessions dat the pundits and junk who stopped her but shouldn't have known what they were saying anyway, right

-- Asap Antoine (Antoine.Mela@cc.org), December 27, 2002.

What do you mean?

Isn't Annarino the one who had the sex-crazy book out? She does know about men and how to please their penises, but dolphins?

very confused...

-- Susan McCord (ri@imag.com), February 11, 2003.

o my god i love this ddddddddddhgguic dht the sid mne tti kive ssiw wirkd and when i love myself the wordld will come with all its graces and love me for itself and prohibit the exploitation of the worlds love

-how do u interpret this... i tried to let my mind go free when i typed it and corrected as many spelling errors i could without loosing any clearness

-- s (loosecannon12@hotmail.com), February 12, 2003.


-- Sam (janecherrington@paradise.net), February 12, 2003.


my buddy knows annarino in person, and used to date her, well more like just fuck i guess. she's wild and all that, but I dont think she had books out on sex, except for some videos online and most of them were with that soap star she had as a roommate i heard. but she wrote a book on stepsisters or something like it.

-- Jeff T. (splanden@hotmail.com), March 07, 2003.

what I like to wonder about, seeing as I'm only 17 and know so little about everything, is if language is something we picked up to connect to one another, and if seeing is to understand visible matter, and hearing and so forth and so forth...then can we only possibily understand things in the senses we believe we are given? What if it was possible to exist as completely nothing in terms of what we can explain, but as a complete body of matter in the "eyes" of something beyond us. It seems we devalue things because they make no sense to us, or to our eyes and ears and so forth, but shit are we stupid to ever believe everything is within 5 or 6 senses. We set more limits then I think we take time to notice. "Pssh, well I didn't see the UFO...it must not be real". What if there is something so extrodinary that it doesn't need to be seen, heard, etc, what if it does exists in a sense only so many of us have. Talk about opening our minds.

I have Manic Depression and that leads me on physchotic rages where I can't stop thinking about stuff like that...and I have a schizophrenic friend who has no grasp of what the general public knows as concerete reality. But maybe physchosis isn't that at all. Maybe it's someone who can understand things in different ways then what our "normal" selves can manage. I mean, we can always say mentally handicaped people just understand things differently then us, but who can doubt that the majority of people think they[the mentally handicapt] are just slow, or "not as smart as others". Maybe, if a god does exists, he made us different for the sake that combined all of us will be able to find out the truth behind things we can't explain at the moment. Like a puzzle of some sort, that were too stuck up to put together because most people would never like to believe that they would need someone who they see as mentally retarted or insane to finish the puzzle of life. I mean, just think of all the outcasts in the past they proved so many things probable in the future...

I think we'll be suprised soon enough by the intelligence of everything....and I mean EVERYTHING.

-- Sam.E (iliketoeatwax@yahoo.com), May 22, 2003.

I love it! We do not see the wisdom of others unless it agrees with our own. We the "normal" people(those who recognize patterns more or less the same as the majority) have learned to look up in awe at the very brilliant, but fail to see the value of those who think different who don't do well on standardized tests.

-- MDR (nadar@BigPoppaPump.zzn.com), May 23, 2003.

On this kind of topic I like quotes like: "Do what you can with what you have where you are" and "A stupid baby becomes a powerful freak, what do *you* do?"

I relate to what your saying Sam, I have bipolar disorder myself, I just dont like to try and 'handle' it as such, but rather, meet it.

-- Sam (JaneCherrington@paradise.net.nz), May 24, 2003.

how much pot have you guys smoked, just live your life, try to help your fellow mankind and be the best person you can be. enough said.

-- Gary Elliott (ushogle@swbell.net), August 16, 2003.

Susan and Jeff-

I hate to sound ignorant here, but just who the hell is Karen Annarino and why is everyone talking about her?

-- Harold (hvarese@hotmail.com), October 15, 2003.


karen annarino is a b-movie actress who has been known to frequen the L.A. dive bars, etc. searching for younger actors/models to fuck. she's been known to fuck a lot of young up-and-coming-types, and her nickname is the "mother-cunt" among the crowd. my friend used to fuck her - she is pretty dirty in bed, but she has a good heart and has been known to bestow favors upon a selected few. my friend was in love with her, but she threw it away to be with her rich boyfriend antoine....I guess she likes money even more than cock or connection....hehe...her words, not mine.

in any case, she's a good bird, but don't get too close to her.

-- Jeff T. (splanden@hotmail.com), October 17, 2003.

Well it may be possible if the laws of physics were different or something like that. We just can't ever know because we are trapped in the world of form looking out. Hindu and stuff, right?

-- Holly Bowman (soul_sister1998@yahoo.com), October 27, 2003.


Hello -I am a friend of Karen Annarino, whose name appears in your website with some very offensive material. Ms. Annarino has been a close personal friend of mine for several years and is deeply disturbed by the nature of the posts mentioning her name on this list.

Starscream, would it be possible for you to delete those posts containing her name? The allegations and incidents described are causing her deep distress and are both insulting and libelous.

Thanking you in advance.

-- J Echegaray (aroundmidnite@hotmail.com), March 01, 2004.

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