3rd Grade Playground During Recess

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I just took a long look at the New Questions page, scanned down through the names of those who began each thread and the titles. Children. 8-year-old children chest thumping about their chosen party/candidate and whining about the competitor.

Don’t you folks see the childishness in this behavior? Self-respect and respect for others is in short supply on this board these days. Are we not able to analyze our behavior just a little, that we may see the foolishness in berating others for their choice of candidate and in giving ourselves props for our selection – over and over and over again?

RESPONSIBILITY. DIGNITY.

I hope to God none of you have reproduced. I'd hate to think of your children looking to you as role models from which to emulate behavior. True strength of character includes winning and losing graciously. Each of us experiences both regularly in the microcosm of life. The presidential election stage is a large one, but our behavior in reaction to it should not be a catalyst to our tossing aside civility. To the winners, act as if you have been there before and will achieve it again. Humility and quiet self-confidence can and should be a part of the same package. To the losers, take solace that you fought the good fight and will be back again in four years to do the same. For either side to shove the other's face in the mud is boorish and paints the one who does the shoving in a most negative light.

Doesn't pride in being an American citizen include humility within & compassion for others? Must we experience tragedy in order to exhibit these characteristics?

Take a step back, people. Although we cannot change the past, we do hold dominion over the present. Think, feel, then act. Makes for a better environment. Discussion just may return to this forum some day soon.

Rich

-- Bingo1 (howe9@shentel.net), November 27, 2000

Answers

Excellent post, Bingo. I couldn't agree with you more.

-- CD (costavike@hotmail.com), November 27, 2000.

I think you're both a bunch of big dumb poopyheads.

-- (hmm@hmm.hmm), November 27, 2000.

BTW, I voted for neither Bush nor Gore. Hopefully the readers in question will understand the above does not pertain to politics. Hopefully.

-- Bingo1 (howe9@shentel.net), November 27, 2000.

"Discussion just may return to this forum some day soon." I predict some time in January. Thanks for the post.

-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), November 27, 2000.

hmm-

NUH UH!!! Flagpole by the swings...3:00 o'clock...BE THERE!

-- CD (costavike@hotmail.com), November 27, 2000.



Bingo, I express outrage when outrage is due.

Sitting back calmly rationalizing everything, trying to be fair when others walk all over me, trying to hold my tongue so I don't insult anyone, trying to have humanity and compassion...I do it. But once in a blue moon, something goes beyond that line. And then, if you are to be truly a man or woman, you must speak out.

Sorry, I disagree with you. I think the best thing a parent can teach a child is that you try all these other things first,..but don't ever let it get to the point where you don't stand up to the bully. If you keep handing the bully your lunch money everyday, you'll be a loser for the rest of your life. There comes a time when one must take a stand. That time has come. Rage is a God given human emotion, and one that often brings about neccessary change. Buttons are being pushed...and pushed.. and pushed... AND PUSHED, until one screams NO MORE. That's where this all comes from.

I can see why you would rather have everyone smile and bow then shout and argue...it would be such a lovely world..but the world isn't a lovely place, and people who smile and bow get crushed if they don't start taking a stand. Perhaps crushed is a place you've become used to...but not me pal...I refuse to stay crushed anymore.

-- k (k@a.n), November 27, 2000.


Bingo,

What - you don't appreciate the honor of being one of Syd Barrett's lab rats?

"Right now I'm working on escalating the conflict between the two political parties, in hope that some day people will get fed up and finally realize that our entire political system is nothing but a futile excercise in divisiveness.

-- taxpayer (united.we.stand@divided.we.fall), November 27, 2000."

From the thread below:

"General Services Administration won't open transition office"

-- flora (***@__._), November 27, 2000.


K, I appreciate your thoughtful response.

I think the best thing a parent can teach a child is that you try all these other things first,..but don't ever let it get to the point where you don't stand up to the bully. A warrior can often choose the battleground and opponent. A warrior also selects the weapons he or she will use from their arsenal. Lately I see small-mindedness on an internet forum, a chosen battleground flush with anonymity. Perhaps it is that some folks arsenals are bare of higher grade weaponry.

By all means dig in your heels wherever you deem necessary. I don't give you or anyone else a free pass here. You offer excuses for what I consider to be bad behavior because you have this perception of being bullied. So be it. Tell me – what does screaming on the internet accomplish? Do you find some sense of release in this? Scream away.

Rage is a God given human emotion

Rage has its place as a motivational tool, but to act while in its grasp is folly, EXCEPT in situations which demand physical exertion, where the adrenaline rush would be of benefit. Is rage a quality you wish to nurture in your children? One of our tasks as human beings is to evolve, no? Doesn't personal evolution entail using our emotions as tools, instead of being used by them?

Flora, we're all lab rats of one sort or another.

Rich

-- Bingo1 (howe9@shentel.net), November 27, 2000.


Maria, I agree with your estimation. :(

-- Bingo1 (howe9@shentel.net), November 27, 2000.

K I agree with you.

-- Ooops (Ooops@slipofthetongue.com), November 27, 2000.


Please don’t mistake my tone on this thread. I don’t pretend (well, sometimes I do in front of a mirror when no one is watching) to have my shit together. I act like a jackass quite regularly. Really I do. My personal goal at this point in life is to limit each particular incident to just that – one instance. More often than not I catch myself acting like a 7-year-old and (again, in front of a mirror when no one is watching) I give myself a good spanking so as not to create a loop in which I spew, they spew, I spew back…and so forth.

See, introspection can be fun!

-- Bingo1 (howe9@shentel.net), November 27, 2000.


After looking at some of the threads, I thought of starting one just like you did, Bingo. Then I remembered the thread Patricia started wherein she simply asked folks to click "No...don't send me responses to this thread." Then I got back to studying for my Human Growth and Development exam and learned that 30-60% of adults never get beyond the point of Concrete Operations [slated for the years 7-11].

I decided that whistling into the wind was more productive.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), November 27, 2000.


K-

Do you seriously equate polite discourse with being stepped on? Do you seriously believe that those on this board who disagree with you are the equivalent of school bullies attempting to take your lunch money?

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewithouta.net), November 27, 2000.


Anita, I was going to use something of what I learned from the Fowler thread in my original post here, but decided against it because my guess is most folks didn't give it but a cursory glance.

-- Bingo1 (howe9@shentel.net), November 27, 2000.

Bingo,

You will doubt be very happy to know that I have not reproduced. No tiny minds are being warped by my example.

And besides that, I am rubber and you are glue, so nyah nyah nyah.

-- Uncle Deedah (unkeed@yahoo.com), November 27, 2000.



Flora,

Syd Barret? LOL! That's good! ;-)

I am not trying to use the forum participants as "lab rats", only trying to make a point, and it seems to be working. Some of the more sensitive and intelligent participants like Bingo, Capnfun and Anita are catching on. The intolerance and hostility of the mentality which often dominates this forum is utterly fruitless, even self-destructive at times.

This election issue has become a virtual parody of this phenomenon, an intense battle almost equally divided, in which neither side will really win. I admit I have participated in this foolishness, but only to emphasize that point. Many seem to think that it is better to "win" half of a discussion rather than opening their minds enough to reach a compromise in which both sides win. The human race cannot win until we learn to win together.

Perhaps it is our government that is using us like lab rats, or maybe they are just so incredibly stupid that they do not see the error of their ways. Either way, I think WE can afford to change, to allow ourselves to be more intelligent than that, to set a more productive example.

Individual responsibility is not limited to the example set by politicians, we are much better than that. Some of us are beginning to remember this, I hope everyone will soon. :-)

-- taxpayer (united.we.stand@divided.we.fall), November 27, 2000.


Anita, that is one of the reasons y'all (that's for you, capn; did I spell it right?) don't see me much around here these days. Whistling in the wind IS more productive.

I'd like to address something you wrote, Rich. You said: "Self- respect and respect for others is in short supply on this board these days."

I agree with this. I can only use myself as an example here: I have a ton of self-respect; I know the kind of person I am, and some of you on this board know the kind of person I am. I respect EVERYONE.....until they give me a reason not to. And there are too many to count on this board these days who have given ALL OF US way too many reasons NOT to respect them.

Once in a great blue moon these days I will post a response. It usually deteriorates into a childish exchange, so I give up. I've posted a bit on Poole's board the past couple of weeks, but it shows signs of deteriorating into exactly the same thing. Futility in every sense of the word. So I surrender, "uncle", no mas. Wake me when it's January and I can laugh at the oaf taking the oath, and sit by my mailbox waiting for the Inaugural Ball Invitation that won't show up.

Unk, what about the adult minds you are warping? ;-)

taxpayer, sounds an awful lot like a "debate" that raged just about a year ago on a board not so far away ..... "the more things change, the more they stay the same" (or something like that).

-- Patricia (PatriciaS@lasvegas.com), November 27, 2000.


So I'm a poopyhead AND glue? I'm gonna take my ball and go home if you peoples don't stop picking on me. :0P

I'm in about the same place you are, Patricia. All but ready to pack it in until the new millennium dawns. I figured I'd give it a shot with the thread not long ago about integrity regarding one's internet handle/online persona. This thread addresses the problem of forum participant degeneration from a different angle.

I had hoped a few more folks would chime in; those in control of themselves most of the time and the ones who foam and flail, occasionally striking keys which form words faintly resembling English language.

Rich

-- Bingo1 (howe9@shentel.net), November 27, 2000.


K- Do you seriously equate polite discourse with being stepped on? Do you seriously believe that those on this board who disagree with you are the equivalent of school bullies attempting to take your lunch money?

No..it's much much worse than a school bully. Much worse.

-- k. (kritter@adelphia.net), November 27, 2000.


Oh wow, Kritter. I had always believed that you were a reasonable person, but after your last post, I don't know what to think. I just hope I'm reading you wrong, or that you're hyperbolizing.

I must say, it's sad that either you have so little experience with life or you are so oversensitive that you equate people disagreeing with you to being threatened by bullies. When I was young, about seven or eight, I was the target of a set of bullies that beat me up and generally abused me. I got bloody noses, black eyes, cuts and scrapes. I lived in fear of them, stomach-churning, sweaty-palmed fear, the likes of which I'd never felt before and haven't felt since.

Nothing anyone has ever said to me on this board or any other has ever made me feel frightened or intimidated. If you are serious about equating disagreement with physical agression, then I sincerely feel very sorry for you and I hope you can work out whatever issues you may have regarding conflict.

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewithouta.net), November 27, 2000.


When I was young, about seven or eight, I was the target of a set of bullies that beat me up and generally abused me. I got bloody noses, black eyes, cuts and scrapes. I lived in fear of them, stomach- churning, sweaty-palmed fear, the likes of which I'd never felt before and haven't felt since.

Well what the hell did you expect, Tarzan? Ya lived with a family of gorillas in a damned jungle!

-- CD (costavike@hotmail.com), November 27, 2000.


Bingo,Pat,

While I understand your frustration about all this I cannot agree on your methhod of resolve.How does it benefit *you* to step back from the forum? The only thing that will happen is two less(IMO reasonable) voices to choose from among the fray.Discard what you deem as arcane bantering and participate in discourse more appealing to you,that is one of the beauties of the board.Plus,like y2_ it is something to learn from through if nothing else,observation,to leave or not participate as usual only serves to deprive you of the experience.

The phrase that comes to my mind is "And this too shall pass",then we will be at some other point in time with other matters at hand.This topic of elections etc. will be just as old of news as y2_ is now,no biggie.

If I took myself out of the game I would feel as if I were being forced out and *I* couldn't stand that or I'm hurting the team,sota speak.The flavor of the dialogue is diminished when the balance of opinions is reduced,I don't like the idea of that happening,that to me,is more disturbing than the ultra rhetoric that is the juxt of this thread.

Besides,who would really be more at fault for "harming" the board? Them for having a silent shouting match? Or you for not continuing to contribute as usual?Just my 2˘ worth : )

Taxpayer,

Sorry,I reckon I missed the lab rat analogy alltogether,but thanks for the compliment,I think (catching on???).And sinse you know us,why not decloak?,unless of course you are going to stick with that moniker.

-- capnfun (capnfun1@excite.com), November 28, 2000.


Capn, I hear what you're saying, and I agree -- I do feel like I'm "letting the team down". But (your wonderful compliment notwithstanding -- thank you) *my* cyber-voice doesn't mean all that much. Then again, one of the things that Y2K taught me was that there are a lot of people out there who actually do read this stuff. Sigh.

I'm still posting, if infrequently, but how many times can you point out "disconnect" and "rationalizations" to the same people? In how many different ways?

I'm sad to say this, but this election has opened my eyes to some people on this board, and I don't think I like what I've seen. People I had thought were rational really aren't (IMO). I mean, when you get right down to it, does whichever-idiot-that-grabs-the-WH really mean anything to us? No.....it doesn't. It's all freaking "symbolism", yet there are people here who insist they are "personally affected" (read: "will be harmed") if (OH MY GAWD!!) a Democrat gets in office.

Hmmmmm.....how "harmed" have they been for the past eight years? Yeah, that's what I thought. Eight years of a president who is politically/philosophically more of a centrist than anything else, and they've been mortally wounded because he lied about a blow job; yet they "excuse" the "private wars" and six-plus months of "I don't recall" and the pardons that effectively blocked any prosecution because it's The Party. Give me a friggin' break.

I'm tired of some on this board proclaiming what my morality should be. Screw that.....as I said before, I know what kind of person I am. And I'm a damn sight better than the hypocrites here who would tell me otherwise. I care about *people*, not about money, not about guns, not about others thinking like I do.

I'm tired of the "threats" of "armed insurrection". Get a freaking life people.

I'm tired of the "third-grade" mentality that pervades the apparent Republican supporters; and lately, a few of the Democratic supporters as well. Nyahh nyahh to all of you. And would you people PLEASE learn to spell "whiney/whiny" and "whining".

I'm tired of the "parrotting" I see coming out of the "right" (and, to a lesser extent, from the "left"); when, if ever, was the last time these people had an original thought? How exactly does one become "proud" of the fact that s/he is a Rush Limbaugh "fan"?!?!?! Doesn't it bother them to know they no longer think for themselves? Doesn't it occur to them that that's exactly what they're accusing the "other side" of? How is it possible they don't see this?

I'm tired of the hypocrisy that mostly comes from the Republican side; it's just so reminiscent of Y2K, it's almost laughable -- if it weren't so sad. And I said the same thing about what I saw on the original TB2K about Y2K.

(Side note on hypocrisy: During all this nonsense, have you seen even one alleged "Republican supporter" mention the fact that Congress -- and that would be the Republican Congress -- has seen fit to pass some of the most expensive "legislation" and "fat-cat, pork-laden bills" in history? Nope. I don't remember seeing it either. Yet one of the main "rallying cries" of these people is "stop spending my money". Did y'all just miss that one?)

(Second side note on hypocrisy: Weren't many of the "Republican supporters" we're seeing now the very same people who complained about CPR and his "capslock"? Where are they now that "Ain't" seems to have replaced our missing "capslock" guru? How come they aren't complaining about basically the same crap being posted by the same person over and over and over.....?)

I ask what I think are reasonable questions and I get sarcasm and morality lectures and "you're a damn liberal" in return. I have noticed that rarely, if ever, do these people answer the friggin' questions I've asked. That says more than any straight answer could.

And I'm not the only one; I see it happening to many "reasonable" people on this board, simply because we don't "parrot the party line".

To me, this place is becoming more and more like the original TB2K -- a board on which I never posted for just those reasons (I'm NOT talking about "perceived censorship"). The "shouting down" of anyone and everyone who disagrees with "the party line"; nonsensical bullshit posted over and over to block out other "voices"; the childish "graphics" posted on practically every freaking thread. Look what happened when I tried to have a somewhat "rational" discussion with the poster named "freedomfighter". What did s/he do? Attacked me personally, never once answering the questions I asked. And I agreed with at least some of what s/he was saying!

You see, I learn something from just about everyone who posts here -- even (especially!) those with whom I vehemently disagree. And I'm neither ashamed nor afraid to admit that. Why is it so difficult for others to open their minds to how others think; to see "the other guy's point"?

Don't get me wrong -- I'd hate it if we all "thought alike". But that feeling doesn't seem to be shared by many these days. I see painfully few people who can disagree with someone without calling them a "mental dwarf" or a "c*&t" or similar. And these are supposed to be adults?!?!

I sometimes wonder what OTFR thinks about all of this; does s/he want to participate? Or just chuck the whole thing because of what s/he sees? *I* sure wouldn't want to be in THAT position. Hats off to you, OTFR.

See what you've done, capn? You got me back in here. You old dog you ;-) And I've rambled on.....sorry.

CD, that was funny as hell.

-- Patricia (PatriciaS@lasvegas.com), November 28, 2000.


Pat, it seems you need some milk and cookies.

"How exactly does one become "proud" of the fact that s/he is a Rush Limbaugh "fan"?!?!?! Doesn't it bother them to know they no longer think for themselves? " I could ask the same about being an Imus fan? The exact same thing. This is opinion and people are entitled to their opinions. You have separated the views along party lines, where you are on the "right" side of the line; again that's opinion and you are entitled. But recognize that you are saying the same things the "other side" is saying.

This is similar to Y2K but one stiking difference. No one comes out right or wrong here. Y2K had definite "winners", this doesn't. It's all a matter of opinion, very subjective. Where Y2K was very objective.

-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), November 28, 2000.


Yet again you have shown an example of one of the points I was making; this time with the "milk and cookies" remark. I have to wonder if you've EVER had a conversation in which you didn't resort to name-calling in some form or other.

I'm not an "Imus" fan. I'm not saying that people aren't entitled to their opinions. And for crying out loud I'm NOT SAYING I'm on the "right side". How many times have I posted that, YES, I LEAN TO THE LEFT (oh the HORROR!!!), but I'm more a moderate than anything else? How many times have I posted that the two "major candidates" are "major assholes", neither of whom represents *ME*?

Because of that, I am most decidedly NOT "...saying the same things the "other side" is saying..." because I have seen few people on the so-called "right" admit to this!

Of course I have "separated the views along party lines" because THAT'S what's being presented here. And last I looked, that WAS the topic of discussion.

Re Y2K: I mostly agree with your assessment. Each side in this "debate" also thinks they are "right", same as Y2K. But one can also make a case that, the outcome notwithstanding, Y2K was also somewhat "subjective" along the lines of how people viewed the world (and isn't that what this is really all about?). The so-called "doomers" had many good points, as did the so-called "pollies". And each side had their minuses.

There are NO WINNERS in either "debate". It's ALL a matter of OPINION.

-- Patricia (PatriciaS@lasvegas.com), November 28, 2000.


Geez! I was making a joke! You really think that "milk and cookies" has to do with name calling. Get a grip!

-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), November 28, 2000.

Is Imus supposed to be a liberal?

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), November 28, 2000.

Let's see...Imus voted for Bush and Rick Lazio (vs. the first lady). Nope, don't think he's a Liberal. But YOU already knew that, Anita.

-- Bingo1 (howe9@shentel.net), November 28, 2000.

Maria, you wrote..

Pat, it seems you need some milk and cookies.

It's ALL in the delivery, hon.

Rich, you wrote...

"Take a step back, people. Although we cannot change the past, we do hold dominion over the present. Think, feel, then act. Makes for a better environment. Discussion just may return to this forum some day soon."

...coming to a theater/theatre near you!!![G]

-- Peg (pegmcleod@mediaone.net), November 28, 2000.


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