Someone please tell me how one gets out of this dilemma

greenspun.com : LUSENET : TB2K spinoff uncensored : One Thread

This is a qoute from another thread from myself:

"And this is at the heart of the republican dilemma; it is okay not to make sure all ballot votes are counted, but it IS okay to make sure every overseas ballot is counted. What this party in effect has done is, by proxy, stated that the overseas ballots are more important than the undercounted ballots, in direct violation of the equal protection statutes. This is the dilemma, and I do not hear anyone here addressing this."

I would really like a logical discussion of this dilemma. I want to know how your side gets out of this trap.

-- FutureShock (gray@matter.think), November 26, 2000

Answers

FS,

As you probably know I really don't have "a side" in this but please allow me an observation.The Dem's would have been just as happy if the overseas ballots were excluded for any reason that they could have come up with,as they were primarily Bush votes.But they ran into the buzzsaw of being percieved as anti-military and had to PR themselves out of that quagmire.

It seems to me that both parties are facing the same dilemma,that of trying to untangle themselves from a web of furious post election litigation without carrying around those sticky threads that will be yet another black mark on whomevers presidency.

-- capnfun (capnfun1@excite.com), November 26, 2000.


Republicans over the course of history have shown themselves to be schemers, even deceptive manipulators, using whatever means necessary, and even rejecting moral and ethical behavior, in order to gain power.

Dubya is no exception, in fact his past experience and background have trained him to excel in these skills. What we see now is a master at work, hiding in his mansion while his lackeys go out and manipulate the democratic process to their advantage.

The Republicans have once again chosen to go for the power, even if it means butchering up democracy and silencing the people. They stoop so low as to spread rumors of cheating on the other side, which actually serves as a distraction from their own deceptive tactics.

Gore has supported the democratic process from day one, and was even in favor of recounting the entire state to make it as fair as possible for both sides. The fact that Republicans rejected this option speaks volumes about their agenda... they are not interested in a democratic solution, only in manipulating their way into power.

-- (republicans@master.manipulators), November 26, 2000.


I fail to see how one side is in this trap but not the other. One side says "determine the intent of every voter in three counties", but fights every overseas absentee ballot it can - the other says "hand recounts shouldn't count", but that we should bend over backwards for the absentees. Which side has the "moral" advantage here? I'd say neither.

And to use your terminology, isn't one side stating "by proxy" that the undercounted ballots in three counties are more important than the undercounted ballots in the rest of the state? Or the rest of the country? Is this not "in direct violation of the equal protection statutes" as well?

-- RC (randyxpher@aol.com), November 26, 2000.


I hope you find your logical discussion, FS.

I haven't allowed myself to be sucked into the quagmire because I see no point in expending energy where I have not the motivation to truly be proactive. Politics has been and is a forum wherein one will get soiled on the inside. At least that's my take on the game itself.

To those who attempt to effect change, a tip of the hat to you all. Compromise your platform points but only grudgingly, and with much forethought, your core principles.

Capn, well stated yet again. You've written some fine posts here lately. Amazing how clarity can come when we remove ourselves from the fray, isn't it?

Rich

-- Bingo1 (howe9@shentel.net), November 26, 2000.


"isn't one side stating "by proxy" that the undercounted ballots in three counties are more important than the undercounted ballots in the rest of the state?"

Gore is interested in coming to an agreement on a democratic solution that would be fair to both parties, and would leave neither of them with egg on their face. He offered to meet with Bush in person, but was shunned. He then asked him throught the media if he would accept the offer to count all states. Bush, being more interested in holding on to his lead than allowing the voice of the people to be heard, rejected him again.

-- (the@real.story), November 26, 2000.



Gore is interested in winning this thing, just like Bush.

The Bush strategy of trying to freeze the original count and fight perfectly legal recounts is dumb. The Gore strategy of requesting recounts in heavily Democratic counties and proclaiming that "the will of the people" (unless, of course, he still doesn't have the votes to win) is equally dumb.

I'm going home,

-- RC (randyxpher@aol.com), November 26, 2000.


And this is at the heart of the republican dilemma; it is okay not to make sure all ballot votes are counted, but it IS okay to make sure every overseas ballot is counted.

The ballots have been counted, and recounted. Which ballots are you talking about that have not been counted?

-- butt nugget (catsbutt@umailme.com), November 26, 2000.


Butt Nugget, all the dimpled ballots in all the republican counties in America, those weren't counted. If Browards count, why don't those count? Darn these laws!

-- k. (k@a.n), November 26, 2000.

Al "Every Vote Needs To Be Counted (Unless they are Bush, Nader, Buchanan, Moorehead, Haeglin, Brwone, McReynolds, or write-in votes) Gore

-- butt nugget (catsbutt@umailme.com), November 26, 2000.

Bingo,

Thank ya.It is a little odd,normally I'm grounded on one side or another,this *is* a unique position.

-- capnfun (capnfun1@excite.com), November 26, 2000.



Moderation questions? read the FAQ