Us against them

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Why is this country so polarized that it has been driven down to some vitally important issues that separate two parties with two different beliefs and directions? Why is it that we in the heartland feel that prayer before a ballgame is not wrong and you do? Why do we feel that we should have the right to bear arms and you would do everything to restrict that right? Why do we feel that it is important to have a family set down together at least once a day at the dinner table and visit with another instead of ordering out for pizza in front of the t.v.? Why do most of us feel that late abortion is wrong while most on your side are indifferent? Why do we think that preferential treatment towards minorities is not right while you put others ahead in a line in front of more qualified? Why do you embrace the concept of same-sex marriage while we abhor it? We like the thought that if you work hard and make a profit, you should keep more of it while you would tax it and give it out to those that are less resourceful. You want to knock holes in our dams to protect endangered salmon while we see other parts of Canada and Alaska that are having migration problems also and they have no dams as impediments. You protect teachers rights while we would rather stand with the children. Your unions are across the fence from our industries. We have fought wars together and we voted together. We all fundamentally want the same results for ourselves and our children but we are on different paths. Will we end up with the same results or will one or both of us be disappointed. Maybe our differences are what gives this country an edge over many others but it still makes one wish we were closer together in our beliefs and goals.

-- John and Carol (momdad@home.net), November 22, 2000

Answers

Ain't America great!

-- Uncle Bob (unclb0b@aol.com), November 22, 2000.

Where are Ted and ALice-not swinging anymore?

-- FutureShock (gray@matter.think), November 22, 2000.

John & Carol,

May I ask you the same questions?

Why do you feel praying at a ball game, to your chosen god, should take preference over my chosen god or my right not to choose a god at all? Why do you feel it is wrong to restrict certain firearms that are used for no other purpose other than ending life? Why do you feel that only your family and your political party values family time together? Why you feel like you're the only ones who are against late term abortions except in cases where the mother's life would be in danger or where a fatal, sexually transmitted disease would infect the fetus? Why would you advocate denying equal treatment and employment based on sex, ethnicity, age? Why would you seek to impose your sexual preferences on those who have their own? Why would you ‘abhor’ anyone for seeking happiness in a relationship that harms no one, but merely offends 'your' sense of propriety or your personal beliefs? Why would you assume that others do not wish to work hard and make a profit? Why would you categorically deny benefits to those less fortunate? Why would you seek to punish those who are less ‘resourceful’ rather that seek to educate? Why would you assume your candidate will deliver on his promises regarding taxation any more than the other candidate? I'm guessing you are Republicans. If you're referring to George Bush's actions and voting records on environmental issues, I wonder why you feel his record is better than Gore's considering Texas leads the nation in industrial pollution? Why would you NOT advocate any legislation that seeks to elevate those who are there to educate our children? They have within their hands the ability to work with parents to teach our children to make a world that is a whole lot better than it is now.

We may all want the same things for our children and our families, health, happiness and prosperity. But do we have the right to impose our interpretations of those things on others? You start out, “Us Against Them.” Why? Aren’t we all in this together? Aren’t we all, as human beings, responsible for taking care of families, neighborhoods, cities, countries, planet? And yet, how is this to be achieved with an “us against” them mentality. This leaves no room for compromise, tolerance, appreciation for differences. To me this is not about politics. This is about stepping out of our mental bunkers and doing all that we can to extend and expand our compassions. I believe we're all doing the best we can. Sometimes it's nice to step back and appreciate that.

-- Casey DeFranco (caseydefranco@mindpring.com), November 22, 2000.


Why is it that we in the heartland feel that prayer before a ballgame is not wrong and you do?

I don't feel it's wrong, just keep it to yourself.

Why do we feel that we should have the right to bear arms and you would do everything to restrict that right?

I feel that both of us have the right to bear arms.

Why do we feel that it is important to have a family set down together at least once a day at the dinner table and visit with another instead of ordering out for pizza in front of the t.v.?

I agree with you.

Why do most of us feel that late abortion is wrong while most on your side are indifferent?

I agree with you, so long as the mother's life is safe at late term abortion is wrong. But overall, it is the woman's choice.

Why do we think that preferential treatment towards minorities is not right while you put others ahead in a line in front of more qualified?

I cannot argue with that one, racism is racism, whether it is designed for or against a certain race.

Why do you embrace the concept of same-sex marriage while we abhor it?

While I do not EMBRACE it, I do not abhor it either. Let peaceful people do what they wish, even if they both have peckers. They want to marry, let em.

We like the thought that if you work hard and make a profit, you should keep more of it while you would tax it and give it out to those that are less resourceful.

You talking to ME? Are YOU, talking to ME? You think I like my tax $ going to slugs?

You want to knock holes in our dams to protect endangered salmon while we see other parts of Canada and Alaska that are having migration problems also and they have no dams as impediments.

I like salmon. Yummy. Maybe we can get together and figure out how to help them reproduce while still generating electricity?

You protect teachers rights while we would rather stand with the children.

Both have rights. But you forgot the parents. The parent's rights need to be addressed.

Your unions are across the fence from our industries. We have fought wars together and we voted together. We all fundamentally want the same results for ourselves and our children but we are on different paths. Will we end up with the same results or will one or both of us be disappointed. Maybe our differences are what gives this country an edge over many others but it still makes one wish we were closer together in our beliefs and goals.

How about the goal of live and let live? Don't mess with me and I won't mess with you?

I am a Libertarian, I am neither an "us" or a "them".

-- Uncle Deedah (unkeed@yahoo.com), November 22, 2000.


Why do you feel it is wrong to restrict certain firearms that are used for no other purpose other than ending life?

Hogwash.

Firearms are used, according to figures I have seen, as many as 2,000,000 times a year by law abiding citizens to STOP crimes and SAVE lives.

-- Uncle Deedah (unkeed@yahoo.com), November 22, 2000.



Not everyone in the blue states voted for Gore and not everyone in the red states voted for Bush. It was close in most states. There are not two countries geographically.

There are not even two countries demographically---or is someone going to make the case that all Gore voters are the same and that all Bush voters are the same? It's not that simple.

Essentially this election is a tie.

-- Lars (lars@indy.net), November 22, 2000.


We are in favor of owning guns for reasons other than killing game. And most people that do own guns have certain weapons that are designed for personal protection and only that. And that doesn't mean protection from animals! If you have to shoot somebody in defense of yourself or family you had better kill rather than wound them. The right to bear arms against oppressors is what's kept this country free for so long and it should never be taken away. Put a sign around your neck telling all that you and your household are unarmed and we'll wait for the results!

-- John (momdad@home.net), November 22, 2000.

"Us against them"

With this statement a few thoughts of my own come to mind.

To me it ain't about "us against them" it's about "me against the whole fuckin' lot of ya"!!!.If it ain't the "right" tellin' me how to better morally live my life and doing it through more legislation it's the "left" telling me how they think they know better how to live my life and spend my money for me,with still more legislation.Everyone of ya have your stinkin' thought police out ready to write someone another damn ticket,to make still another dollar off people who are just trying to get by.

I'm ready to declare "moi" a sovereign nation and if you fuck with me I'm declaring a state of emergency and then war!!!Both of ya are so hellbent on ramming YOUR thinking down my throat that you are progressively taking my voice away.To hell with you "lefties" and "righties",if I didn't know better,I woulda thought both of ya were omnipotent or something,not just mortal humans.With such superior mental capabilities(tounge now poking through cheek)no wonder you think yourselves infallible and your shit don't stink either HUH!!!

When will you learn that the vast majority do not give a flying rats petute what *YOU* think or want *US* to think *WE* just want to be left alone to pursue our life,liberty and happiness.

-- capnfun (capnfun1@excite.com), November 22, 2000.


Unk and John, I wasn’t clear. I was addressing the “...do everything to restrict..." portion of the sentence. I was speaking specifically about assault weapons, machine-guns and fully automatic guns, all ‘restricted’ under the Federal Assault Weapons Ban and the National Firearms Act. I was speaking about gun registration at gun shows, I was speaking about guns equipped with trigger locks and the Brady Act-- all restrictions. I DO NOT advocate disarmament of the public especially when in 1999, 562,870 victims of serious violent crimes were faced with armed offender - that 21% of 2.7 million violent crimes involved a handgun. I do know, if you point a gun in self-defense, you'd better know how to use it. I also know that children are often the victims of careless gun owners. I advocate common sense, not abolishing our right to bear arms.

-- Casey DeFranco (caseydefranco@mindspring.com), November 22, 2000.

Oh I forgot,Please stand for the National Anthem Of The United State Of Mind of the Sovereign Nation Of Capnfun.

OH-OOO SAY CAN YOU SAY... KISS MY ASS ....GO AWAY.....

LEAVE ME ALONE.....AND LET ME BE.....I'M JUST FINE BEING FREE....

AND WHEN I CAN... I'LL LEND A HAND..... TO HELP ALL AND SOMEONE ELSE...

BUT IF YOU THINK YOU CAN DEMAND...I'LL TELL YOU,TO GO FUCK YOURSELF.

-- capnfun (capnfun1@excite.com), November 22, 2000.



Casey,

All my funnin' aside,what exactly do you advocate in regards to firearms?

FWIW,I say a gun is a gun is a gun,if it's loaded and you point it at someone and pull the trigger more than likely it will injure or kill them,there are laws to govern such actions.More kids are injured seriously on the football field or at home than with gun accidents,life is allways happening,some will allways be irresponsible,we will never be able to protect everyone at all times.(short version,it's late)

-- capnfun (capnfun1@excite.com), November 22, 2000.


PRESS RELEASE:Indecision 2000 11-22-00 5:23CST Funicular County TN

Upon a re-re-re-read of said prior statement and a changing of my mind(a couple dozen times) and while playing a constant PR battle with the media,I have decided that"me against the whole fuckin' lot of (YA)"was not the will of my Nation,but instead will be ammended to"me against the whole fuckin' lot of (EM')",the *YA* which not so clearly displays the intent of the Nation is deemed to be invalid,as it was evidently a dimpled : ;) *YA*.

A message from the Capnfun Canvassing Consortium capnfun@freefunforeveryone.fun

-- capnfun (capnfun1@excite.com), November 22, 2000.


capn, here's a site you just might like .

BTW, I wrote an answer to this last night, but you guys have pretty well covered everything. Well-said.

-- Patricia (
PatriciaS@lasvegas.com), November 22, 2000.


>Trying this again...

The site is Start Your Own Party.

The rest was directed towards the thread.

-- Patricia (PatriciaS@lasvegas.com), November 22, 2000.


Passes Capn a Cocktail and a blunt.

Um, I've not EVER seen him so worked up.

puff puff, pass, "here ya go capn, and um, happy thanksgiving"

-- (shh@aol.,com), November 22, 2000.



Also on the issue of gun control I would like to remind those that forgot and enlighten those that don't know something that was in times past,but not so long ago. Many, many kids as young as 12 received their first 22 cal. to hunt with even into the late 60's. Some of these kids also went to school with guns in the gun racks. Not once did you ever read anything about gun violence at any of these schools even with that situaton present. And nobody has determined what an assault weapon is. Many hunting weapons are semi-auto and under gun control, all of these would be included. It is just a stepping stone toward total control and that is why we are fighting this so strongly.

-- John (momdad@home.net), November 22, 2000.

Capnfun - I advocate owning a gun, since most criminals do. I advocate reminding people to be careful that children don't get ahold a gun and accidently kill themselves or someone else (I agree with you that it's not common -- still it happens and it's not necessary). I agree with the Brady Act, I agree with the trigger lock concept, I agree with banning assault weapons, i.e. uzis, machine guns, rocket launchers. It's arrogant of me to want to protect everyone all the time, but that's my wish. BTW, I like your National Anthem. Will you allow tourists?

-- Casey DeFranco (caseydefranco@mindspring.com), November 22, 2000.

Sumer!!!,

I guess it's a wake-n-bake kinda mornin'/afternoon,what the hell...puff,puff (eyes now in back of head) cough,cough ahhhhhhhh,passing on the cocktail though,where's my Mt Dew?! Thanks Sumer! I needed that : )

Pat,

I joined that party,didn't I? It sure felt like it.

Casey,

Everyones invited!!!!!!!

-- capnfun (capnfun1@excite.com), November 22, 2000.


Casey, why don't you define in your own words what you think an assault weapon is? Many people think they know but yet they just can't put a description on it. Like I said before many sporting firearms are in the semi-auto category and many Brady supporters put these in assault classification. A full Automatic IS A TYPICAL assault weapon! You pull the trigger and they fire continuously. We as gun owners do not support their ownership except by legal authorities and the Military. There are already laws on the books that prohibit the general public from owning and using them. The criminal element will always,ALWAYS have access to fire arms of their yearning. That will never change. Gun locks should be our choice. They are a wonderful idea for keeping a gun safe from a younger child but please don't make me lock mine up because I don't want to have to search for the key or remember the combination when I need it at a moments notice in order to protect myself or others.

-- John (momdad@home.net), November 22, 2000.

John:

We can start the list of weapons with the AK or go by size; no one would hunt anything bigger than a chipmunk with a .223. Now to another question. Everyone calls me a liberal; what is this reasoning behind the assumption that we so-called liberals don't have guns. I grew up in the eastern mountains. My grandfather started teaching me to shoot at 3 y. I am a pretty good shot and have the trophies to prove it. Do I have guns? Does the Pope live in the woods; is the bear Catholic?

Cap:

There is a better wine for armadillo. It has recently disappeared from the shelfs. It was labelled as grape wine. It came encased in a brown paper bag with the label on the outside. Always the way; the great ones disappear. :^)

Best wishes,,,,,

Z

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), November 22, 2000.


sumer,

Blunts are very bad for you dear. Deep sucking and holding tobbacco is not a good move. Best to stick with a hand roll or a bong if you feel that you must indulge.

-- Uncle Deedah (unkeed@yahoo.com), November 22, 2000.


To Z, I don't understand what you mean when you say nobody whould shoot anything larger than a chipmunk with a .223? Are you are referring to AK47 and SkS type semi-autos? They fire 7.62x39 caliber and that would stop about anything up to a bull elk in its tracks. We do not respect the right of any private citizen to own a full auto AK47 however. I use a SkS for coyote control in our high country, simply because as a semi-auto it throws alot of rounds out there and hopefully he might run into one of them.

-- John (momdad@home.net), November 23, 2000.

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