Niall Mackenzie from nufc.com, re the Sunderland game: "So who's to blame? Well, everybody. Players seem less willing to die for the cause, fans have become listless and spoilt, directors greedy and aloof and the net result is a good old fashioned spanking by the village idiots from down the road. What have we become? Well, it hurts to say it but Man United without the silverware. St.James' Park on Saturday resembled Old Trafford to an alarming degree. For half an hour it was a cauldron of noise and celebration as we swarmed all over the opposition. But our failure to go 3-0 up inside the first half hour seemed to cause some consternation. And then what? The other lot decided they weren't going to roll over and die and started to fight back. How dare they. Quinn's header that was tipped away by Shay should have woken the team and the crowd up but instead we retreated further inside our shells. The equaliser had us reeling on the ropes and Quinn's winner had us throwing in the towel. When the going gets tough the tough go silent and walk out, apparently. There were 12 minutes left to inspire a fantastic comeback but some had gone well before Shearer's penalty miss. Even then a rousing finish could have been mustered if 50,000 voices had inspired a team that looked punch drunk. But if we couldn't be bothered then why should the team?"

Does this tally with the impressions of others 'lucky' enough to have been there? If so, I'm not suprised that Non-League football is seeing increased crowds from those desperate for some grass roots footie without all the preening pomposity of the bloated Premiership circuit.

-- Anonymous, November 21, 2000

Answers

I stayed to the end (a little after actually!) and sang my heart out as always but can totally understand how frustrated the people who went early felt....I think Niall's being a bit of twat taking his frustration out on those personally....

-- Anonymous, November 21, 2000

so what's new?

-- Anonymous, November 21, 2000

We're back to this old chicken and egg dilemma again are we? Perhaps Niall can explain why we didn't go in at half time 7-0 to the good or win those f*cking Cup Finals if noise from us = good performances from the team. Just like last season it was almost total silence from the mackems until they scored and a wall of noise from us lot. You will have noticed that the crappy atmosphere at Old Trafford over the last few seasons has resulted in a lacklustre shadow of a team who can't string a decent set of results together....or possibly not.

-- Anonymous, November 21, 2000

Sorry Gav but I'm with Niall on this one; leaving ANY time before the end of a local derby is unforgivable, but leaving 5 or 10 minutes before the end when you're only a goal down is a bloody disgrace. 49000 screaming Geordies would without doubt have an adverse effect on the opposition, conversely, the sight of hundreds heading for the exits is only going to inspire.

-- Anonymous, November 21, 2000

I will probably get shot down in flames for this and I love NUFC.COM loads but NUFC.COM has been so negative this season that I can hardly bear to read it - it's like reading a Manc site: cynical, carping and critical. Somebody will now probably print me in the Mag and they'll get a private tec out to prove that I missed a lot of games when I was a student.

-- Anonymous, November 21, 2000

LR, talk about you know, eh?

-- Anonymous, November 21, 2000

But Douggie..I am talking abou what I know. Been to both OT AND SJP..heard 'em both :-)

-- Anonymous, November 21, 2000

Dave's right, especially as it shows a poor state of affairs when the home fans leave early. Never understood why people do that...not as if you get a discount is it?

Although we get a fair crowd in at SJP, the quality is occasionally questionable. I have no doubt of the effect that a lacklustre support has to a team on the field. While the opposite may not be true (good support = wins), the 'fans' who give less than their all at our most prestigious home game are little better than makems.

I don't blame nufc.com knocking the support, although the weight of complaint allows for the team's failures too much. It's a culmination of a disappointing campaign so far, with little to cheer at home. Frustration, frustration, frustration.

-- Anonymous, November 21, 2000

But there's nothing new there, Bobby. We've had worse runs, and we've certainly had less entertaining teams. I'm not in a strong position to comment (having not been in the new St James' yet) but the lack of atmosphere and this walking out early have to be connected. Who's getting these extra tickets? Is this just a blip whilst the day trippers get their visit out of their system, or is it a longer term Traffordisation (© PSM 2000 ;-) )

PS can't wait to take a day trip up there myself ;-)

-- Anonymous, November 21, 2000

LR, I've been to both and I can categorically say that we haven't got to your level yet. However, you haven't quite got to Upton Park levels yet.

-- Anonymous, November 21, 2000

Sorry, but it's dead easy to blame the corporates, They actually get post match hospitlaity so it isn't these. Against Everton, this lad behind me kicked the Newky Brown hoarding and shouted "Yiz are shite" at the pitch before walking out when Everton scored. Cor[- porate or very disappointed fan? ALL sorts were walking out on Saturday. It honestly went through my mind although I didn't do it. Furthermore, the Makems were shit until they scored. Who raised the Sunderland players?

-- Anonymous, November 21, 2000

"Who raised the Sunderland players?"

Cheetah from Tarzan?

-- Anonymous, November 21, 2000

A monkey?

-- Anonymous, November 21, 2000

That's even more worrying Dougal. So what, if we're shite. We've always been shite ;-))

-- Anonymous, November 21, 2000

Nah sorry Dave.....it bugs me when people normally leave early but after that fucking performance I wanted to leave! as you will no doubt know yourself it was fucking heart wrenching and soul destroying....more so than any other game.....I'm not gonna give people a hard time for walking out when they're feeling like that....

And I also disagree that if they'd stayed and continued getting behind the lads that it would've made any difference whatsoever....the blame rests squarely on the manager and the players and not with the fans...

-- Anonymous, November 21, 2000

When I went to the bar at half time I predicted them getting back in the game and was met with 1 - 0 is enough if it stays that way, I also said it seems like the crowd think that 1 - 0 is enough. 2nd half I expected us to come out guns blazing after the Robson team talk - this didn't happen and to be honest if the team cannot raise their game for this match above all others then they don't deserve to play for NUFC, I'd much rather we had the young guns playing with a bit pride and fight than "stars" ducking challenges and hiding.

I stayed until the end, but only out of a sense of duty, I didn't like the lack of urgency, such as the indecisive free kick in the East end corner (in the dying seconds) which ultimately Shay Given took, all the while the baying mackems were jeering and beaming above (not that I can blame them, I would have done the same with roles reversed).

The thing is when you live in the mix that is South Tyneside it doesn't end at 4.45pm, beating Liverpool won't make it better, Europe would be a start, thank God for drink, drugs and rock 'n' roll.

-- Anonymous, November 21, 2000

I think it was the best atmosphere not just in the first half hour but up untill they equalised. Where I was in the middle of the leazers end you couldn't hear the makems. As for walking out I hate to see it and it must surely effect the players.

-- Anonymous, November 21, 2000

Gav, are you seriously condoning leaving early when the game's still in the balance? Of course we were poor in the second half (see my posting under 'why we lost'), but we're supposed to be supporters i.e. SUPPORT our team. Blimey if a neutral were to believe some of the guff that's been posted on this and the old Communicata board he'd think we were the loyalist, noisiest most partisan set of fans the world has ever seen. I've never subscribed to that nonsense, in fact the whole 'Geordie nation' thing is a bit of a cringe as far as I'm concerned, but I do believe that pre-Keegan you'd have been able to count on one hand the number of us that leaving early when we were 1 down to Wearside filth. Call me an old fart, call it misplaced nostalgia, but I firmly believe it just wouldn't have happened.

-- Anonymous, November 21, 2000

C'mon. Own up, Gav. You're protecting someone, aren't you. Which one of us in our midst walked out?

-- Anonymous, November 21, 2000

Last time I felt like walking out after paying excessive monies was seeing French & Saunders.

Believe me, save your £30 a head (30 quid!!!) and watch them on the telly. Much funnier and you don't get silly twats in front of you throwing balls of paper.

-- Anonymous, November 21, 2000

Last time I walked out of an event was the film 'Pret-a-Porte', which was the biggest pile of crap I've witnessed on the big screen closely followed by 'A Walk in the Clouds'

Back to the subject, I don't get to many games and would never contemplate walking out no matter how bad the beating. I cannot speak for thos that go week in week out at St James' and have seen us capitulate many more times live than I have!

-- Anonymous, November 21, 2000

Windy/Dave, I'm protecting no-one(everyone I know stayed until at least the end....some had to be dragged out of there!)....i'm basing my entire opinion on how depressed I felt, I'm not therefore willing to blame anyone for walking out when they were feeling that bad......I think Niall's ranting is misplaced.....

I seriously doubt that staying and getting behind the lads would've made any difference....and I'm not prepared to use it as an excuse for us not being good enough to beat the scum....

-- Anonymous, November 21, 2000

I think Niall and Biffa are in serious danger of disappearing up their own arses, with their,

'I AM CONSIDERABLY MORE NUFC THAN THOW!' attitude.

-- Anonymous, November 21, 2000

Exactly Debuilder!

-- Anonymous, November 21, 2000

Fair point DeBuilder, that said, nufc.com is still an excellent website and will remain the first bookmark I click onto every morning. As Bobby mentioned earlier I think we're all just a tad frustrated at the moment, Niall and Biffa included. It would all be so different if Nobby's free-kick had been 2 inches further to the left and Gray's cross had been 2 inches higher for Quinn. As Bobby Lee said yesterday on 5 live; 'nothing's going for us at the minute'

-- Anonymous, November 21, 2000

Er.....that of course should've been Nobby's free kick being 'to the right'

-- Anonymous, November 21, 2000

>>>>>the crappy atmosphere at Old Trafford over the last few seasons

I can't understand why OT gets as much criticism on here. I've been to 2 semi finals there in recent seasons and the noise is bliddy awesome...

:-;

-- Anonymous, November 21, 2000

Listen gang - the rip-roaring SJP atmosphere of the 60's has gone for ever, along with the terraces that facilitated it. However, by today's standards the atomsphere at SJP on Saturday was great - and as Softie correctly says, that wasn't down to the 'muted mutants' on the top shelf.

If the B&W team had performed even half as well as the crowd on Saturday we'd have won hands down. In reality, they didn't deserve the support they got on the day - and I'll join Gav in saying that one this occasion I could certainly understand and appreciate why some chose to say "ah, fcuk it!" - it was eyes-bleeding painful!!

I was so incredulous by what I'd witnessed that I was probably last out of the stadium, but I certainly don't expect any extra credit for my paralysis.

-- Anonymous, November 21, 2000

As Bobby Lee said yesterday on 5 live; 'nothing's going for us at the minute'

Disappointed from this quote and I would have thought Lee would have known better. Shows nothing has been learnt from the debacle of Charlton, Everton and Sunlung. I'm not expecting anything for the next couple of games if this attitude is prevalent.

Things will only start to improve once we get down there with the Coventry's and Everton's and by then it will all be too late.

-- Anonymous, November 22, 2000

Well I'd be happy to chuck in the whole footballing lark, and start basing results on fighting between fans.

All much fairer and would certainly open up the Premiership from the Newton Heath / Arse domination. This may sound desperate to some...and it is.

Wasn't there a computer game on similar lines released recently?

-- Anonymous, November 22, 2000

Hey Bobby....based on what I've seen over the last few seasons and 3especially this season I still think MUFC will be there. I KNOW Arsenal wouldn't...that's been proved already.

LR in no way condones.....blah blah etc blah

-- Anonymous, November 22, 2000