OK:

The question is:; where do we go from here. Let us face it. This election has destroyed the anti-intellectual left [the green party]. They will no longer exist; they are a footnote to history. One man’s expression of ego.

Now, how about the other side. What about the religious right. The idea of imposing Torah law on the nation. What do we do about that?

Your Call; George is ok with it.

Best wishes,,,,

Z

-- Z1X4&7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), November 17, 2000

Answers

The Neomedieval Period?

Elvis may have left the building, but I doubt the anti-intellectuals have.

-- flora (***@__._), November 17, 2000.

Brian, do you consider yourself anti-intellectual? Do you consider yourself destroyed? My guess is no and no.

"What about the religious right"? This is a non-issue; always has been. Why do you worry about it?

-- Lars (lars@indy.net), November 17, 2000.

Z:

I've already expressed my opinion on the Green Party surviving without the bad hair guy at the helm. Regarding your comment on the anti-intellectual left, I might recommend that you consider that you've got the flu right now, or are slowly recovering from same.

Regarding the religious right, I think they'll continue as well. There appears to be a sense of disenfranchisement among a certain percentage of the population that feels a need to be led.

Why is this happening now?

I addressed this topic on Poole's Discussion Board after watching the story of David Stephenson, who began the KKK in Indianapolis in 1923. The arguments in 1923 were the very same as the arguments of the religious right today, and a certain percentage of the population that feels disenfranchised tends to flock. Of course AM radio talk shows feed the flock, and AM radio stations desperately needed a way to keep AM alive, so they encouraged these shows.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), November 17, 2000.

Lars, I'd like to believe the religious right is a non-issue; but how do you explain the over-proliferation of "right (talk) radio"? I happen to believe that most of the country is moderate; they lean one way or the other depending on the issue-at-hand, but the majority kind of goes down the middle there. (And the vote tally -- the popular vote tally MINUS that state in the southeast -- would seem to back that. Then again, it also backs the fact that people just didn't like the candidates.)

Seriously, every now and again I tune into Flush or Michael Reagan ("right radio" is big here in NV) and within five minutes I'm screaming at the radio.

Which must be quite amusing to my fellow drivers on the road ;-)

-- Patricia (PatriciaS@lasvegas.com), November 17, 2000.

Amazing what you can get by kicking the anthill.

Lars:

I don't consider Brian anti-intellectual; just the Green Party. Now, Anita, who some think is the feminine side of Hawk. Well, I will have to think about that one. :^)

Best wishes,,,,

Z

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), November 17, 2000.

By-the-by Anita:

I chair endless meetings. The present one is on GMO's in the food supply. If I start with my normal, reasonable position, nothing happens. If I salt the opening with the, conflicting, extreme views, I get discussion. Sorry, but Flint is correct. You have to kick a few hills to start a discusssion.

Best wishes,,,,

Z

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), November 17, 2000.

"my normal, reasonable position..." Geeze, talk about an ego.

-- Carlos (riffraff@cybertime.net), November 17, 2000.

What we need in 2004 is Jessie Ventura with a platform that is a combination of the best elements of the Green, Libertarian, Democrat and Republian parties.

OK. Now define best.

-- Ross Perot (@ .), November 17, 2000.

Jesse just signed on as the color commentator for the the XFL which starts in February. He's left politics for the raunchy entertainment dollar.... Or maybe he will bring ringside adventure to politics.

-- johnn littmann (littmannj@aol.com), November 17, 2000.

Carlos:

Good point. Poor choice of words. But you have to have some sort of ego to do these things. Then, you don't have to have so much ego that you use it to destroy the things that you stand for [read Nader].

Best Wishes,,,,

Z

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), November 17, 2000.

Jesse just signed on as the color commentator for the the XFL which starts in February.

My bold!

Is this a joke?...and if it is...IT AIN'T FUNNY.

-- Peg (pegmcleod@mediaone.net), November 17, 2000.

Agree. Wasn't trying to pick on ya. That phrase just stuck out and my fingers got the better of me.

-- Carlos (riffraff@cybertime.net), November 17, 2000.

Z:

If I salt the opening with the, conflicting, extreme views, I get discussion. Sorry, but Flint is correct. You have to kick a few hills to start a discusssion.

If you recognize what you're doing and saying, Z, feel free to continue. I've noticed that a few on this forum are driven by emotionalism regarding the election, and I've noticed that folks are talking into an abyss when retorts are offered. In no way do I think Brian qualifies as an emotional poster, so I doubt very much that he'd take offense with your statement on anti-intellectuals. I didn't mean to single out Brian, but were there other Green party supporters on this forum?

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), November 17, 2000.

Anita:

I've noticed that a few on this forum are driven by emotionalism regarding the election, and I've noticed that folks are talking into an abyss when retorts are offered. In no way do I think Brian qualifies as an emotional poster, so I doubt very much that he'd take offense with your statement on anti-intellectuals. I didn't mean to single out Brian, but were there other Green party supporters on this forum?

Of course, Brian isn't. We have discussed this stuff when I have been here to discuss this stuff. I respect his opinion. As to other Green party supporters, my guess is that you are talking about Lars or Flint. Both will be up to the task of supporting their position.

Now what about the Emails that I have received that say that you are really Hawk [in your spare time]. :^)

Best Wishes,,,,,

Z

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), November 17, 2000.

Z,

For you to refer to the Green Party as the "anti-intellectual left" only reinforces the fact that you have a very warped idea of what you consider to be intellectual. Self-destruction in the name of greed might seem "intellectual" to psycopaths, but to decent human beings it's not all that intelligent.

-- (don't@kid.yourself), November 17, 2000.

Anita:

I think there's a good chance that Celia is a green supporter. At the very least she is a very strong sympathizer.

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), November 17, 2000.

Don't:

I agree with Flint. I ignore people who use anon names and have no history here. I will do the same with you.

Best wishes,,,

Z

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), November 17, 2000.

Uh, Z,

What kinda flu meds are you on, dude?

-- flora (***@__._), November 17, 2000.

Flora:

None; but thanks for the thoughts.

Gee, I remember going over a pass in Montana. The weather was bad. Very bad. Temperature was -40 F. There was a car stalled at the side of the road. It had California plates. Everyone had ignored them. I stopped and helped. Others had ignored them because they were from California. I took them to the next town, which was 100 miles away, found them a motel and helped them get AAA assistance. See, I am a nice guy from Montana. The rest of the folks wouldn't do that for someone from California.

Best Wishes,,,,

Z

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), November 17, 2000.

Z:

Lars and Flint have already confessed to voting for Bush. Regarding your E-mail, it's your choice to believe whatever you choose. I will neither confirm nor deny that I am...whatever you said I was in relationship to Hawk. [Boy I yearn for the memory I once had.]

Flint:

Yes...Celia certainly began with intentions to vote for the Green Party, but I believe she traded her vote with someone in Montana or something so that her real fear wouldn't be realized. In addition, I don't consider her to be one of the folks who get emotional in political discussions. She's definitely LIBERAL, but I suspect I'm further left on the continuum than she. [Please, oh, please don't evolve this thread into a rubber ruler discussion.] [grin]

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), November 17, 2000.

Nader was on Bob Grant talk show the other day. He said the Green party is fair from gone. He expects next election to be filled with Green Party candidates all over the country..and he's offering $1,000 to the campaign of anyone who will run under the Green Party next year.

I like having the choice of third party candidates, and I wish him well. (beyond the obvious republican reasons too)

-- kritter (kritter@adelphia.net), November 17, 2000.

Anita:

I was sure that you would realize that the Lars and Flint part of the statement was a Joke.

Best Wishes,,,

Z

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), November 17, 2000.

Z, just curious....do us CA folk have cooties?

What's the overall Montana opinion?

-- cin (cin@cin.cin), November 17, 2000.

"I agree with Flint. I ignore people who use anon names and have no history here. I will do the same with you.

Best wishes,,, "

LOL. Glad you agree with your hero Flint, but whatever gave you the impression I was asking for your response?

I was just putting your derogatory and egotistical opinion of the Green Party into its proper perspective. Is there a law against that?

After all, not everyone thinks you are as "intellectual" as you obviously do. Heh-heh.

-- (legend@in.your.own.mind), November 17, 2000.

Legend:

Good one; but I doubt that you have the final answer to that one.

Cin:

I moved from Montana 25 years ago, but I read the local paper on the web every day. Don't think things have changed that much.

I remember one of my last years there. There was a close race for governor. It was neck and neck. The Republican announced that he had hired a California firm to handle his campaign. After the word California, he lost in a landslide. It would take more time than I have to explain why.

Best wishes,,,

Z

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), November 17, 2000.

Patricia---

I don't get Michael Reagan in this market but I do get Rush and have never heard him espouse any Christian politics. Have you? He's simply a Conservative Republican, albeit a very partisan one.

He has never supported any extreme or independent candidates (he pissed off some listeners in '92 by making fun of Perot). He was totally agnostic on y2k (he call-screened out the whole subject). He cuts short cospiracy buffs, NWO theorists, etc.

Like he says, he's just a loveable fuzzball.

-- Lars (lars@indy.net), November 17, 2000.

"Let us face it." (lol, spoken as though he were God himself)

"This election has destroyed the anti-intellectual left [the green party]." (sheeesh, the arrogance! somehow, i don't think the green party will take kindly to your assessment)

"One man’s expression of ego." (lol, you said a mouthful there!)

-- (that's@what.YOU.think), November 17, 2000.

That experience should tell you a bunch Z. Image beats content far too often. Image today? Can anyone spell TV?

-- Carlos (riffraff@cybertime.net), November 17, 2000.

Not from Montana, but I think I can say with certainty that YOU do not have cooties cin.

Rosie O'Donnell, yeah, lots of cooties.

Roseanne, cootie condo.

Cin, cootie free zone.

Now, as to the Greens. I am not ready to write them off. It will depend on who might be their next poster-child. If they get another celeb they might have legs, but not like this time, IMHO.

And the Libertarians. I don't know. Maybe we need a poster-child of our own. Clint Eastwood is a self-described Libertarian, I sure would prefer "Dirty Harry" to Harry Browne on the Libertarian national ticket. Alas, individual freedom seems a radical idea to many these days. But for now I figure that I am with them for the long haul, at least, until a party that best reflects my views AND has a chance of winning comes along.

-- Uncle Deedah (unkeed@yahoo.com), November 17, 2000.

Damn Unk, that is an excellent idea! Clint Eastwood as Libertarian candidate for president. He has some political experience, too. He's getting up there in years though, it's a shame they didn't ask him to run a few years ago.

-- (Clint@damn.good.prez), November 17, 2000.

I hear Cin has cute cooties.

-- (nemesis@awol.com), November 18, 2000.

OPEN UP!!!

Six people saying something "smart".

Is still six people saying something.....alone..

inclusive? or exclusionary

-- hatti (up@in.com), November 18, 2000.

After lows in the upper 20's low 30's,an extended hiatus to the Keys seem very much in order,I think I'm actually gonna to have to scrape the windshield this morning!!! %$##@%&&!!!

-- capnfun (capnfun1@excite.com), November 18, 2000.

Lars, it isn't so much the "Christian politics" as it is the alleged "morality" these right-radio-heads spout over and over and over.....and these right-radio-heads refer to it as "being Christian". To hear them tell it, any person in the universe who does not espouse the Republican Conservative Right is a Damn Evil Liberal.

Even moderate members of the Republican Party are looked upon in this way! It's Their Way or the High Way.

There aren't hip-waders tall enough or a back-hoe large enough to get through this nonsense.

And heaven help you if your last name ends in a vowel or has too many consonants. You're "taking an American's job".

I don't care if people want to spew about their religion, but I'll be damned if I'll let a "lovable fuzzball" (oh, I have so many other things I could insert there [g]) tell ME what my MORALITY should be.

And the callers.......you know, I want to believe the U.S. population is basically intelligent, but then I listen to twenty minutes of these "adults" and........faith in humanity goes right out the window. These people right now are shouting about "taking up arms" if Gore wins and, well, I'm not quite sure what they're going to do after that. It gets a little garbled.

(And part of the left is just as bad as this part of the right. Remember that the further out you go on the spectrum, the closer you are to your perceived "enemy"; as Y2K showed us. But we were talking about the right.)

But the most disconcerting trend I've noticed, especially in this election, is that so many of the so-called "mainstream republicans" are beginning to parrot the words, ideas and concepts of these right-radio-heads. I disassociated myself from the "militant" part of the far left after I realized that alot of what they espoused was nothing more than domestic terrorism. Why is it that the republicans seemingly "excuse" their far-right counterparts? I almost never hear denunciation from them; on the contrary, as I just stated, they are beginning to sound like them.

No warm-n-fuzzy feeling here.

Hey, once every 2000 years or so I actually agree with something one of these right-radio-heads spews. But, to use a tired cliche', even a broken clock is right twice a day.

-- Patricia (PatriciaS@lasvegas.com), November 18, 2000.

johnn,

Seems I owe you an apology...I didn't read it correctly.

My most humble apoligies :)

-- Peg (pegmcleod@mediaone.net), November 18, 2000.

Patricia--

The only point I was trying to make is that right-radio is not Christian-right-radio. At least Limbaugh is not.

Are you serious about discrimination against people of Italian heritage and eastern-European heritage? I think you're about 50 years out of date on this one, but it is too bad that you weren't in NYC to vote for Lazio over the WASP-Princess, carpetbagger Hillary.

-- Lars (lars@indy.net), November 18, 2000.

Lars, I'd love to believe I was 50 years out of date on that one, but the sad truth is that I'm not. The right-radio-heads can spin it all they want but their phony sincerity is just that -- PHONY.

While Rush (as a personality) may not actually *be* "Christian" in the true sense of the term, he most certainly "preaches" so-called "Christian morality". It's hard to separate the "moral majority" (who don't actually HAVE a majority, BTW) from "right-radio". It certainly appears to be rather intricately intertwined, whether intentional or not.

And I know you're just gonna LUV this one -- I would have voted for the WASP :-) (even if she claimed to be a Yankees fan). I didn't really think she'd win, but I knew Guiliani wasn't going to beat her (he used to be a decent guy until he let his ego take over). No way, no how. It's a NYC versus the rest of the State kind of thing.

(Seems the residents OUTSIDE of NYC have never quite forgiven Koch for his remark so many years ago that "the suburbs are a joke".)

-- Patricia (PatriciaS@lasvegas.com), November 18, 2000.