Just been having a look at the .cock site again (first time for a few days) and, I don't know why I didn't notice it before, but it strikes me as very strange that when you log in, and go through the enter screen (which as I have said before now has Cordone in place of Al), when you get to the next screen, the banner along the top, a) still has Al and Nobby it S&N logo shirts, and b) has a grphic of SJP with a broon ale label on it.....I bet NTL love that don't you

Best one now though has to be the competition to win tickets for the Makems match. The question asks who did Newcastle recently beat 4-3 in a high scoring Worthington Cup match, and one of the options available to choose is Derby City do those tw@ts know ANYTHING about football?

:0)

-- Anonymous, November 07, 2000

Answers

Actually, I am heartily sick of the whole slagging off of nufc.co.uk. The .cock joke stopped being funny about two years ago and it's amazingly sad how much time people seem to be spending looking for mistakes on it (not you ITK).

-- Anonymous, November 08, 2000

Is it worthy as an official site? The news that filters through follows everybody elses lead, normally NUFC.com. When you need advice on tickets etc there is nothing there.

Either they decide to really go for this or leave it to someone who wants to give something to the fans.

-- Anonymous, November 08, 2000

Dougal - I'm sick of the slagging of the .cock site too because it SHOULD be better, it SHOULD give us better news and ticket information, and player news - even though the Bland & Shite magazine was just a aren't the club great back slapping effort at least it had some interviews with players (almost) worth reading. Sites like NUFC.COM, TOONWEB, NEIBAWMS (not to mention the Daily Toon - bugger I just did) not only offer fans decent timely information - they also look fairly professional (and NUFC.COM probably take more revenue from their site than NUFC.cock at the moment, what with the postal charges from the offical webstore) and they're run by people with proper/other jobs - aren't the .cock people dedicated to only writing content for these NTL run websites? They'd get sacked at our place.

-- Anonymous, November 08, 2000

I'd be prepared to take this issue up with David Stonehouse IF, and only if, I could get a concensus as to:

i) what is presently wrong with the .co.uk site and

ii) specifically how we'd like to see it improved.

However, I wouldn't be prepared just to piss & moan to him.
So, if everyone who feels it's an embarrassment and a disgrace would post on here the following, then I'll take it up with the Club:

1) the 3-5 (only) major areas in which you believe the present site is deficient

2) the 3-5 (only) key issues you feel a greatly improved site should provide.

-- Anonymous, November 08, 2000

Sorry about that - the first "IF" was the only word I wanted in bold.

-- Anonymous, November 08, 2000

Clarky

Comments on the .cock site.

Coxy's journalistic claptrap is disgraceful. Match reports and previews are poorly written, and often factually incorrect. Stuff with spelling mistakes, players wrongly named, etc.

Information on away travel is pitiful; always assuming that you'll be travelling from Newcastle to away games. Indeed, some of the away match information has been incorrect, as well as incomplete.

Information that is required in a timely fashion often appears late; match reports appearing days after the game for instance.

Coverage of the junior sides/reserves is appalling. This is one area where nufc.com excels; reports on the abilities of Chopra, Ameobi, Coppinger etc can only help us as fans.

Broader issues: navigation round the site is dire. It's very difficult to get from one point logically to another; I have to say this isn't by any means specific to nufc.co.uk, often sites grow quickly and organically, and then finding your way around gets tricky.

There is no real support for the wider nufc community; i.e. people like us. The club should offer services like our BBS here to the various supporters associations round the country, and internationally.

Bottom line is that the web team at the club should dedicate the same sort of time and effort that Niall and Biffa put in on nufc.com, and mix that up with a well-thought out web community strategy, and it would be a winner.

-- Anonymous, November 08, 2000

Well put, Dunx. I can't really think of anything more off the top of my head other than to point out specifics..which is something I've been trying to put together for ages and just never manage to do. Bottom line is they need someone who either has an interest in the club, or is willing to take enough interest, to present a clear, informative, reasonably accurate site. They need 1 or 2 (at least) full time staff dedicated only to our site. Mistakes and typos happen, but the official s*ite really has become a complete disgrace.

-- Anonymous, November 08, 2000

I agree with Dunx, and it was in English.

I am sure he could add all the techo language as well!

-- Anonymous, November 08, 2000

Having a literate Newcastle fan do it would obviously be a starting point.

-- Anonymous, November 08, 2000

Thats a start - thanks Dunx. C'mon lads & lasses let's have your thoughts.
There is more than enough bitching and moaning about the site - let's have your specific complaints, AND suggestions/ideas for improvement.

The difficulty I have is that, to a non-techie, ".co.uk" seems structurally no worse than 95% of the sites I visit. Their BBS seems functionally OK, is password protected, and yet the content is still absolutely dreadful. I find it difficult to figure out what could be improved about it - other than excluding all the current members and starting again, which seems just a tad elitist.

BTW, when I spoke to Russell Cushing last week about Ginga's problem, he had never heard of this BBS. I haven't figured out yet whether we want them scanning our posts - I can see both pluses and negatives. Any thoughts on this?
I could easily tell him where to get a password if we want them "in". Personally, I have this vision of FS, BR and a few of the players contributing to our on-line discussions - now THAT would be home run. Indeed if I do ultimately get enough material to draft a letter to Stonehouse on ".co.uk" I intend to suggest just that - unfortunately if that was initiated on the existing Official bbs they'd soon get utterly brassed off with the low-brow debate and f'ing & blinding that they'd get directed at them.

-- Anonymous, November 08, 2000

Clarky, the starting point for .co.uk has to be getting their editorial right. The amount of times that stuff has been ripped off from Niall and Biffa is extraordinary, and the amount of times incorrect information appears should trouble the club greatly. Another example, one of Coxy's away travel reports (can't remember which) recommended a pub (in Coventry?) which was a place non-locals would be guaranteed to get their heads kicked in at.

They need to get a dedicated team attending every match at every level. They need to be attending every event (see Niall's report on YBRs opening of the Heritage Stone thingy), and then writing about it all, positively and quickly. Like we want half-time reports at matches (the real journos among us would have no problem phoning in a 250 word piece two minutes after the ht whistle goes).

The .co.uk site is built using static html pages, which as things grow make management a nightmare. Given the amount of similar statistical data they have: player profiles, attendances etc, they should run this stuff from a properly built database. It would make updating so much quicker and easier. The BBS they have looks fine, but works on O'Reilly web board software, which is fine as far as it goes, but is probably hooked up to an M$ SQL server (if anything) with it's associated locking problems.

The community aspect to me is really important; they could easily add functionality for schools/youth clubs etc to register for the study stuff or the training days the club runs.

The service that is run here could be expanded with the benefit of a full time moderator. Why not syndicate Softie's Corinthian League, and have regional comps; the London mags, Yorkshire mags, East Coast US folks could all have their own leagues. There is an enormous group of us (around 2000 people have the password to this board for instance), all operating separately through their own sites around the world; look at the list of expats Niall and Biffa compiled worldwide. Those people should be given the services through the club BBSs, special ticket arrangements etc to help them support their club from afar. What the club must realise that the kind of fans who will fly 10,000 miles to see their boys play (come in Val, FF, and Loony toon to name just a few) are priceless.

With some thought and care, the club *can* do this on not a huge budget, and provide a co-ordinated, worthwhile place to be for all fans of NUFC worldwide. They ought to realise what that can mean for them in terms of revenue generation.

I'd be delighted to have FS, RC or YBR as an occasional guest here; it can all be handled discreetly if they wish to dip toes for a while. I'd strongly encourage them to behave like any other member here though....to take part and be part of the community. It would do them good to understand that we're passionate, committed, intelligent, fair-minded people, who, by and large, respect the club's management for the distance we've come.

-- Anonymous, November 08, 2000

I suppose as I started this multi-headed animal I had better contribute at least something to it.

Where to start.

First of all, I don't diligently scan the site for mistakes as some may think, but some of them are just so blindingly bliddy obvious you can't help but see them. If it was an amateur site, like .com or Daily Toon or Riksplace etc then you can understand and accept it, but this is supposed to be a professional outfit dealing with professional issues.

The first and most obvious mistake is the banner at the top of every page that still shows Al and Nobby with the beer mat on the chest and the graphic of the ground with the same Brown Ale logo. I know it is only six months since the end of tlast season and the change over to NTL, and it may well be a bit too early to expect such a change, but hey, this is a slow medium isn't it. (The opening entry screen has been update to inculde Cordone in place of Al, and at least he has got the NTL top on.

The second one that started me on this in the first place is the competition to win tickets for the Makems match, when one of the option answers is Derby City - mind you, Derby COUNTY have only been around for a little while so its an easy mistake to make.

Looking at the site in more depth:

When you look at ANY site,the net over, if they have a tag saying Stats at the top of the screen, would you expect to see the current statistical information on the club. Not on this site you don't...99/00 stats here, you have to delve into another section to then be lead to the current fixture list, and on that issue, the result of Saturday's match against Ipswich was update this morningfour days after the event.....not bad I suppose it usually takes at least a week.

On the News section, in the last 24 hours, there have been stories circulating that a) Marcellino's agent has been called to sort out his situaton, b) the supposed incoming transfer of Paz from Teneriffe and c) Leeds are supposedly set to make an offer for Kieron Dyer. Only one of these stories (the first) have been reported on the site. Even if there is no substance to the other stopries, the fact that they are being touted in other area's, the official site should set about putting the record straigh, even if that only consists of the Press Officer saying it is not true or there is movement in that area, or yes it is true. If we start to hear that one of the first team is potentially about to be sold, we would expect an official line from the official site.

Still on the news side, since last friday they have placed six stories on the site, three of those are directly from the match against Ipswich.

On the page outlining injuries the list starts in September, (2 entries)goes back to August (2 entries) and then right at the bottom, having scrolled down through the others, the latest ones such as Nobby's last saturday. Surely the latest should be at the top.

On the suspensions page, according to the site there are no suspensions outstanding, yet we all know that Lua Lua was booked against Bradford last week and adding that to the ones he picked up at Colchester, he is suspended. As I understand it for the game this Saturday at Leicester.

The Town Crier page talks about the presentation of the disabled athletes before the game last week in the future tense. It starts off by saying Will Pay tribute.... small point I know, but a good site would update it to reflect that the event took place.

In the Transfers section, on the incoming side they highlight the fact that we now have Cort, Cordone and Bassedas, but there is no mention of Lua Lua, Acuna or Bernard. On the outgoing side, they refer to Des Hamilton having gone out on loan to Tranmere, as we all know, he is now long back and injured. They also make no reference to Jamie McLen going on loan to Motherwell.

These are the ones I have found on a quick spin through the site in my lunch hour, and I know they are trivial points, but together, they all add together to make the site, and therefore the club as a whole, look stupid, and this rubs off on the supporters and offers them up to the ridicule of supporters if other clubs.

I am also not necessarily holding up the .com or our site as perfectly put together sites as we also make mistakes at times and it is not always bang up-to-date, but it has to be borne in mind that we, and the .com lads are just normal supporters using their spare time and a PC in the bedroom to do this, not paid professionals.

I know wor lass is getting more and more miffed at the amount of time I am spending on things, and I had a pint with Biffa after the Southampton match the other week, and he (not including Niall) is currently putting in about 40 hours a week on their site, that's on top of his normal work and given the fact that he lives in York, even home matches for him amount to about a one hundred mile each way journey, and he also goes to a lot of the reserve matches at KP as well. Sorry this has really gone on, but once I start on it, and think about the further PR damage that such things are doing to the club as a whole in the eyes of other supporters and the Makems in particular, I can't stop. ;0)

-- Anonymous, November 08, 2000

oops....forgot to take the bold HTML tag off.....bliddy amateurs eh!

-- Anonymous, November 08, 2000

Sorry, I should have added this before, but on the positive side, and yes there is one, the webcast of the matches are much beter this season, even if there is about a five minute delay on it (I suppose that has something to do with the mechanics of the net) but it has to be better through Metro than listening to that guy last season making a phone call to his missus during half time!

-- Anonymous, November 08, 2000

At the very least I think they should be able to give you an up to date profile of any player employed by NUFC.

The last time I looked on the site the Squad picture wallpaper was out of date.

They should have a lot more competitions.

-- Anonymous, November 08, 2000

I use the internet to get up to date info on my club. I can get that information form NUFC.COM and on this site. I don't need nufc.co.uk for anything!

This is because I know where to look for accurate info. My worry about the official site is that folk may actually read it and believe it.

In a word I would expect the official web site of MY club.... or any club for that matter to be run to a professional standard. This is a multi-million pound business that has a public web presence that is a disgrace.

I don't want Niall and Biffa to produce the 'official' web site. Fanzines have their place but is not as the official voice of the club.

I would like to see:
1) accurate information
2) up-to-date information

that's all....
Spelling mistakes just show a lack of professionalism from the authors. They are annoying and avoidable if someone had some pride in their job.

The authors of the official site should be sacked as they clearly show no interest in producing an accurate, up-to-date info-site about NUFC.

This is not a difficult job. I see my club being ripped off if they have paid anyone to produce this shite and THAT is what annoys me. Like any information source be it newspaper, web site, tv... I have the option of not using it.

As a company director, or whatever, would you be happy with what is publihed on that site?? If you answer yes then I fear for your company!

-- Anonymous, November 08, 2000

Further to what DB says, does the following offering from the Multimedia sector of the site look right to anyone:

This wallpaper is offered in three different sizes. On top of that, they also offer a montage in colour or B&W, which features Kets and Big Yin, and where all are wearing the beer mat shirts.

As I said on my original posting, NTL must love this lot. Geordie made it very succinct......acurate and up-to-date, and adding honest onto that.

-- Anonymous, November 08, 2000

Then if you click on the players there is a team photo there with the correct NTL stuff but no Acuna info etc.

Why can't they update the wallpaper if they have the photo there. I reckon I might be able to do that!! Amateur.

-- Anonymous, November 08, 2000

I agree totally with Geordie.....clear, concise up to date information is what we need.....and I already know where to get it so I don't go to the official site apart from maybe once or twice a year....

-- Anonymous, November 08, 2000

OK gang, thanks. I get the drift.
I'll draft a letter to David Stonehouse on the subject. I'm really busy right now so it won't be until next week.
Naturally, I'll let you know what I get back.

-- Anonymous, November 08, 2000

in addition:

what about mpegs of the goals? I know that would make it difficult re: copyright etc but if there's one thing i really miss it's seeing the goals...

cheers, clarky!

-- Anonymous, November 08, 2000