Questions for Gore supporters: on the handing out of cigarettes to the homeless to encourage them to vote, how do you feel about that?

From World Net Daily:

Stop the presses! I mean it. Stop the election!

Something is going on in Washington and California that will have a great impact on tomorrow's election -- and it stinks to high heaven.

Let me start by telling you how I found out about it.

A very good friend of mine, who shall remain nameless, has a long-time live-in housekeeper from Guatemala. The housekeeper has a daughter who just turned 18. The immigration status of both mother and daughter has been pending for years. Papers have been filed with the Immigration and Naturalization Service. Hearings have been held. But they are not citizens.

This is very important: The daughter has not registered to vote.

But, a few days ago, the 18-year-old got a very attractively packaged "Dear friend" letter from Bill Clinton, paid for by the California Democratic Party.

Here's what it said (on one side in Spanish and on the other side in English): "While every election is important, the November 7th election will determine our future for the next decade, and beyond. The stakes are high for America's Latino families. And California is the critical battleground.

"That's why I'm writing. We need your help to elect a Democratic Congress.

"Despite our strong economy, many hard-working people still struggle to make ends meet. Quality, affordable health care, a world-class education, aging with dignity, and well-paid jobs are part of the American dream -- rather than an American reality -- for too many people.

"Electing a Democratic Congress is essential for our 'Families First' legislative agenda.

"Congratulations on your decision to register. Registering to vote is a basic responsibility of citizenship that far too many people ignore.

"Now that you are registered ...

"Can I count on you to vote Democratic on November 7th?

"Will you make an extra effort to elect Democrats to Congress -- and to your State Legislature -- by talking to your family, friends and neighbors?

"Remember: Your Vote is Your Voice.

"Su Voz, Es Su Voto. Make your voice heard on Election Day.

"Sincerely, President Bill Clinton"

Below that letter is a P.S. that explains: "Here is your personal Voter Identification Card. Sign your name, then detach your card. Bring your card with you to your polling place on Election Day. It will help your voting go more smoothly."

Apparently all the recipient needs to do with this Voter Identification Card is sign it to be eligible to vote. Keep in mind, this was sent to a previously unregistered voter.

As my friend points out, only the U.S. government knows her age and pending residency status, and, obviously her Latino background. How did this information wind up in the partisan political hands of the California Democratic Party? And what kind of impact will a mailing like this -- obviously utilizing a government database for political purposes -- have on the California legislative races? How widespread is this fraud?

This is making my head spin. The recipient of this letter happens to live in congressional and state legislative districts that are very hotly contested in Southern California. But this appears to be a statewide mailing from the Democratic Party headquarters in Sacramento.

It's mind-boggling. The fraud is so blatant. Yet, not a peep out of the Republicans. They apparently won't even know what hit them. The polls in recent days show them making big gains in this once-invulnerable Al Gore stronghold state. A mass mailing like this effectively registering tens of thousands of potential Democratic voters days before the election is a secret weapon held back deliberately to avoid detection, scrutiny and publicity. After the election, the party will be happy to pay a fine for any illegalities involved. Clinton will be out of office and untouchable as always. There will be a new regime in at the INS. And it will all be swept under the rug.

And who knows if this technique is not being deployed by other state Democratic Party units? I don't doubt it for a minute.

This is voter fraud, pure and simple. And those responsible include the president of the United States, the Immigration and Naturalization Service, possibly the Census Bureau and certainly the California Democratic Party.

I'm outraged. Are you? (end of article)

I'm outraged. Are you?...Yes, and I have been for quite some time.

-- Doreen (animalwaitress@excite.com), November 06, 2000

Answers

Doreen, I would question the validity of the source on this one. How many homeless people do you think are actually registered to vote? If there is some attempt at illegal voting, you can be sure that poll investigators will check it out. Any voter registration card must be checked to a poll printout. Generally, there is a registration deadline to prevent rush registration prior to an election. If many cards didn't match , the poll returns would be contested.

-- Jay Blair (jayblair678@yahoo.com), November 06, 2000.

Just as bad as a DUI. Gee, what's the National Enquirer reporting these days? :)

-- sheepish (rborgo@gte.net), November 06, 2000.

In Wisconsin all you need to vote is a piece of mail and an id. I lived there years ago and if i remember correctly from another thread someone instructed another recent Wisconsinite on that....the smokes were passed out in Milwaukee.

As to the poll investigators, yeah, I always trust people to be completely and utterly on top of their jobs and unquestionably honest especially in very close races. I would hope so, but I don't know anymore with people and oaths. I won't go into why.

When I lived in CA and registered to vote 3 mos before the election, I NEVER got a card. I went to the polling place and talked to the people and they checked their list and I was on it, but I NEVER received a card. I don't believe that Joseph Farrah has a reputation for lying. He seems to be very above board on things. More reliable than ANCBS. ABC reported the cigarette inducements.

-- Doreen (animalwaitress@excite.com), November 06, 2000.

Doreen, Doreen, Doreen. How could you be outraged? Now you know this has to be a simple mailing list mistake right? We're talking about the same folks who promised us "The most ethical administration in United States history".

Besides, what's it matter. Even if this pans out as true, like so many others before, nothing will happen. Any attempt at even finding out if it's true will be "one more right wing extremist, hate filled, witch hunt, out to defile the legacy of the honorable, Willy J. Clinton.

I'm disappointed at you for even mentioning this in mixed company. Don't you realize how information such as this could damage young Liberals? The disphoria of truth causes distress and chronic, "knee jerk reactions". Or in the Presidents case, another kind of jerk reaction.

I'd be ashamed of you if I thought it mattered. This shouldn't be any harder to ignore than all the rest. "Don't confuse me with the facts, I've already made up my mind". "damn the truth, ideology, full speed ahead"

Jay, this is a source you should be able to count on. Joseph Farrah is the only member of the "vast right wing conspiracy" Hillary singled out by name. He has broken lots of stories before and had the IRS, Justice dept and a few others sicced on him by the clintonistas.

You've got your vote fraud stories mixed up. The homeless people were in Wisconsin, being bribed w/ cigarettes of all things. This was not a homeless person. It was a registered alien in Ca. That would make her unable to vote under any law I can think of. And how did the Dems get her name?

We'll never know. Oh well. I promise to go back to my cheerful, light hearted self after tomorrow. I promise. John

-- John in S. IN (jsmengel@hotmail.com), November 06, 2000.

Outraged? No, I'm not surprised by anything the two "dumb, and dumber" do, but another good reason for us third party voters to feel a bit more smug. Annie in SE OH.

-- Annie Miller (annie@1st.net), November 06, 2000.

Got crossed up for a minute there and forgot this. Film of the homeless getting smokes for votes, available at Channel 12(?) news in Milwaukee. It will be over soon. John

-- John in S. IN (jsmengel@hotmail.com), November 06, 2000.

I live in California, we do not need voter registration cards to vote. We need to be on the list at our stated polling place, which is printed on the back of our sample ballot and election information packet. We take a photo id with us to our polling place where all information is checked against a master list. then sign in, receive our ballot and vote. A procedure I do on a regular basis. I think that someone has been mistaken in their intrepretation of election mailings. betty

-- betty modin (betty_m9@yahoo.com), November 06, 2000.

Since I don't listen to the puppet media, would someone explain to me how it was that the Democrats were trading cigarettes for votes in Wisconsin? The election isn't until tomorrow(well, later this morning). Or were they using the cigarettes to get them to register to vote? In Wisconsin the homeless are allowed to vote, just like other Americans, and are allowed to designate a shelter as place of residence if they produce a letter from the shelter stating that they have been known to be in residence for more than ten days.

The mail screw-up doesn't surprise me in the least -- I got mail solicitations for funds from both Republican and Democratic parties. Being a good Green, I recycled them promptly. I've also been getting notifications that I qualify for AARP for the last fifteen years -- I've got more like another 15 to qualify. Nothing that the mass- mailers do surprises me.

-- Julie Froelich (firefly1@nnex.net), November 07, 2000.

Betty, perhaps the real question then is if these immigrants are on that list at the polling stations. I also know from CA experience that when someone is not previously rgistered to vote they can vote anyway by just signing in. A friend of mine did that when I lived there. I think she needed to produce an id....but I don't recall for certain. The thing is what about the citizenship issue????

I have a good ffriend who is a mexican american and she gets way bent out of shape because when people show up here from Mexico within 3 days they are receiving WIC and Food Stamps. I contend that these are socialist programs, which means democrat.

Also of great interest to me is the Communist Parties endorsement off Mr Gore (or is that Gouge?). But as John so humorously pointed out, "we'll never know...." And on the topic of never knowing this election craziness might not even end late tonight or early tomorrow. I guess CA has 3 million absentee ballots and those could take up to Dec 10th to be counted and verified. How much will the dog's tail wag before then?...will those votes fail to be verified in the interest of a speedy conclusion to this hysteria?....does any of it even matter since the FINAL results for CA and PA were posted on state sites 8 days ago?....."we'll never know". Oh, well.

-- Doreen (animalwaitress@excite.com), November 07, 2000.

The answer to how cigs. were trades for votes. It has been determined by the courts here in WI that homeless people are eligible to cast absentee ballots if they have someone appear at the county clerks office with them to sign an affidavit to the effect that they have stayed in a particular area long enough to establish residency( 10 days in WI). This is apparently what the Democratic operatives were doing. Interestingly enough, the Milwaukee Democrats, where this happened, blamed it on people from out of state. I guess that must make it alright in their minds since their consciences are clear.

-- ray s (mmoetc@yahoo.com), November 07, 2000.

You might want to check out this link:

http://hv.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=0042Cn

If this information about Bush's military situation (AWOL) is true, it will make the cigarette issue look like kitties play.

btw, I haven't had time to research this all, but there are tons of links! Hackers stopping publication of the documents of Geo. W.'s alleged AWOL story. Plus links to photocopies of the docs.

I hestitate to post this, but it does look like it has some serious merit, probably too late, though! :) Guess the Boston Globe has been carrying this story? Other print media?

WHat is going on? Could this be true?

-- sheepish (rborgor@gte.nte), November 07, 2000.

I think this is a better link: http://www.talion.com/georgebush.html

Anyone familiar with this story or this organization?

-- sheepish (rborgo@gte.ntet), November 07, 2000.

Sheepish, as you said before....they are all sleazes. Are you really surpirsed by any allegations against a candidate? What I was surprised about in the above post was that it's the DEMOCRATIC PARTY!!!! Not just a candidate.

I already went and did my civic duty. Didn't vote for a single democrat except for one judge whom I know. Where there were only dem's running I didn't vote for 'em. They aren't all evil, but they shouldn't be encouraged in the parties socialist behaviour. If they're decent and like the Constitution they should change parties. That's just my opinion.

-- Doreen (animalwaitress@excite.com), November 07, 2000.

I was just surprized to read this issue at all. I guess I have been asleep at the switch! I didn't know there were serious allegations about Geo. W. Bush and his military service record. Again, it's another story in the past, so I am not going to focus on it. What I was most blown away about, was the hackers shutting down the information at what seems like the last minute. As I mentioned, I don't know the source, nor the content. I just get really concerned about not having access to information which may or may not be pertinent to my ability to make an informed decision...especially if it involves the internet, since it seems like the last bastion of freedom of information (if one can be discriminating in one's reading.) Who were these hackers???? Independents or part of a political organization or what? I hate dirty tricks, no matter who is doing them.

And btw, re: another thread: I am glad you posted the Presidential orders. I will look them up when I get a chance.

-- sheepish (rborgo@gte.nte), November 07, 2000.

Also...

In Florida the Democrats are going around to nursing homes and telling old folks that if they dont fill out absentee ballots for Gore that they will have their food and medicine with held...

In Arkansas, the democrats illegally opened the clerk of courts offices and then went around to churches where the congregation is primarily black and bussed them in to fill out absentee ballots for Gore...

In Wisconsin, the "homeless" are being paid off in cigarettes to vote for Gore...

In NY, yesterday the all the voting machines in a precinct were found to already have votes on them (all for candidates whos parties begin with a "D")...

All we need is for the dead democrats who live in the middle of the river in Chicago to start voting and we could have another Kennedy win in the making.

-- William in WI (thetoebes@webtv.net), November 07, 2000.

yeah, yeah, and Bush's campaign used dirty politics to scuttle McCain, using those same kidn of tactics found so odious to Democrats. When asked about whether Geo.Dubya believed they were true after he'd thoroughly sunk McCain, he replied "No, I don't believe they're true." Isn't that called Backstabbing?

-- Julie Froelich (firefly1@nnex.net), November 07, 2000.

Horrible tactics are being used by both sides. In Fla. I am getting countless letters from the Republican party, signed by Jeb Bush and using the Fla. state seal - like the state endorses W.. The use of the seal like that is now under lawsuit. I have begun sending all the mailing back to the party unopenned (return to sender), and am now getting letters thanking me for being a contributor! But dirty tactics are used by both sides - I have seen equally bad mailouts by the Democrats. Both sides should be ashamed. - Julia

-- Julia in Tally (tofubiscuit@excite.com), November 07, 2000.

I wonder what brand cigarets they were giving away?

-- Richard V. Miller (richard.miller@1st.net), November 08, 2000.

Hi annie you haven't seen anything yet this will get ugly I do question this story but there are plenty of abuses which will become visible to the public as more gore and bush fight out this disputed election as the say anyone who loves sauage or government laws should not watch either being made jkg

-- jkg (godseyj@mail.ips.k12.in.us), November 09, 2000.