As I was attempting to fall asleep I kept thinking on SheepishBs post in the Boycotting grocery thread.....All in the marketing. Now, I canBt quite remember where it was I read of it, but a long time ago there was an article about how all of these purveyors of BstuffB through the use of cookies would be sending you banners JUST when you needed what they had to sell. That instead of having to dig for something, through the amazing technology of computing, mindless and soulless mathematical gymnastics would anticipate your every need. Of course, there have been many times when what I absolutely needed was a 1/2 inch copper coupling at three in the morning and I doubt that a computer would be able to provide that for me, but nonetheless, it would probably give it a try, adding insult to injury at that point.

At any rate, it made me start to think on all of the reasons I was against the internet to begin with.....and then we got it in at work and found this forum as a much needed outlet for intelligent discourse and BAM ...... I NEEDED it. Now I know there was a thread about internee bashing, and I have to admit that I didnBt read it, but there are things to be very concerned about when we have such rapidly advancing technology, a government that wants to read your mail, and humongus conglomerates that sell everything from cigarettes to pantyhose whose only motivation is the bottom line, and a society that largely worships stuff and instant gratification.

The questions I have are has anyone else previously been against the internet in general, leaving footprints as it were for whomsoever had the inclination to examine your interests, jumping on the gadgetry wagon while singing BMore, faster, quick I need it nowB? And do you have your browser set to accept cookies??? Has the access to so much information improved your focus, or has it diverted your attention from what it is you set out to accomplish?

Also, just regarding the move toward cashlessness, do you think that people would be better served to simply put the money in their pocket before they go spending it and cease with all of the electronic transactions....or at least make them fewer and further apart?

-- Doreen (animalwaitress@yahoo.com), October 24, 2000

Answers

Hi Doreen! Wow! chuck-full post! I was leary of the internet at first because I had no clue what it was all about, as well as previous involvement in a very strict religion which shunned internet use. Fortunately I was quick to catch on. I found a forum for members, former members, and those interested in that religion (which is unheard of for that religion because members aren't allowed to speak to former members, not even to say hello). The interaction on that forum got me on the road to deprogramming, lent support through the withdrawel symptoms from the religion's way of thinking, and encouraged me to reach out to others struggling with the religion. Major life changes happened from my experience with that forum. The ability to remain anonymous allows a level of freedom of expression one cannot normally achieve when it comes to sensative discussions. I think the bad part of this anonimity is people sometimes get meaner than they would in person.

I did become spoiled by the quick accessibility of information and really had to stop and correct myself when we switched servers and our connection became slower. I became very impatient waiting for a page to load until I remebered it'd take a lot longer to get the info from the library, etc.

As for shopping over the internet: I've gotten some good bargains and it's far more convenient to have things delivered to your door when bigger stores are half an hour away and you have three little ones anxious to touch everything while you try to shop. Not to mention the rising gas prices. Saves alot of wear and tear on the vehicle as well as giving me the ability to find specialty products unavailable around here. Privacy is important to me and it does make me uncomfortable that my credit card number could be discovered by anyone who tired hard enough, as well as my address and such, but my limit on my cards aren't high enough to make it worth anyone's effort.

I don't think it has diverted my attention. I like being able to access intellectually stimulating conversation between household chores rather than being glued to a phone or wasting my day at someone else's house listening to droning gossip when I need a break from kiddy-talk: I hate gossip! I also like being able to bounce ideas and problems off other people who won't spread gossip, nothing worse than confiding in someone then having them tell all your family, friends or neighbors. It's a big relief from the negative aspects of living in a small community.

-- Epona (staceyb@myway.com), October 24, 2000.

Hi Doreen,

THE INTERNET. Five years ago, hardly anyone knew how to "plug in". Now, hardly anyone wants to "unplug". As long as you remember that it is a new tool with some burrs and sharp edges, you can adjust how you work with it.

I for one, use the Internet sparingly. I don't accept cookies, I NEVER send my credit card number over the web. I don't deal with companies that don't accept checks or money orders by snail mail. Or, if I find something I want on the web, I'll find a local merchant that has the same item. I want to see it, touch it, examine it. I want to ask questions of a flesh-and-blood human being.

On the plus side, I can quickly find on the Internet, what I'm looking for. I used to have pen pals growing up. My teen-aged daughter has email pals all over the world. Fascinating.

Big Brother reading my mail? Well, at a rate of 4 BILLION emails-a- day world-wide, all I can say to the spooks in the bomb-proof rooms... "GOOD LUCK". If you can sniff out the next scheduled bomb attack against American forces, then maybe you've earned your paycheck for the day.

Cashless society? Not in my neighborhood. With soo many Amish in the area and retired "yankees" driving them around, it's simple. No checks. No credit cards. Cash only. No receipts. (no reporting to the IRS). If the Feds want to arrest everyone in Middlefield Ohio that does this, then it would save time and money to throw a stockade fence around the whole town and put up a big billboard that reads "You're all under house arrest." :)

That's enough for now...

(:raig

-- Craig Miller (CMiller@ssd.com), October 24, 2000.

If anybody's reading my mail, they need to get a life...or a job:~}

-- Cindy (atilrthehony_1@yahoo.com), October 24, 2000.

Doreen, My son-in-law has been a computer whiz for years & has always made his living working with computers & fixing & setting them up for companies or school districts etc. My daughter for many years said she thought I would enjoy mine other than doing my bookwork & taxes, inventory, etc. So this last year our area phone company finally updaed it's switching station so we could have internet access! I pay a fee for lon distance calls & also internet access--but it is my out side world!! I never dreamed I would use it as much as I do!!! I don't ever give my credit card # online---but it has been my contact with the outside world!!! No matter what information you want it it there at your finger tips!!! I so enjoy this Countryside forum & the people here! I'm so sorry we are now haveing the trouble we have been with the things below our posts, & not being able to get on or post-- I am also offened by the lanuage & some of the things that are under our posts --it certainly isn't the lanuage most of us use on this family forum!!! Sonda in Ks.

-- Sonda (sgbruce@birch.net), October 24, 2000.

I love the internet. There are so many things I can look up and learn about. Went searching for woodworking plans and there are sooo many free ones, and lots of ideas on hobby horses, tables, chairs, wood boxes. Animal health, vet supplies, how to get rid of hornets, how to fix my grass fields, Univ. of Kentucky, just everything!! I would not want to do without it now. Yes, I accept cookies, it dosen't bother me. I go back to the same sites so many times.

And I am getting our crafts on-line now, I hate sitting at the craft shows, I really do. I have met sooo many people with the pups on- line. Most of the pups are now sold thru the internet. I don't have a problem buying things on-line, or selling them. But I am not really a Shopper, on or off. Got some great workbooks at PromiseKeepers for $2.00 a piece on-line. Came in 4 days! Could not get them clearanced like that anywhere else, that's for sure.

Just cause the world is going fast paced dosen't mean we have to, we don't have to be like the commercials on TV. We can use the internet and still be ourselves, only smarter. And with ALLOT more friends!

-- Cindy in Ky (solidrockranch@msn.com), October 24, 2000.

I resisted the internet for years due to the fact that I was concerned with privacy. For once I agree with Craig--I think the snoopy powers that be have too much to do to audit everyone's email. However, I think once you contact specific individuals or specific sites they monitor you regularly with any one of several robotic monitoring systems. I know these systems exist and they are all based outside of the country because the activity is illegal in the US.

As for the cashless society, I think we would all be better off to snip, clip, and burn the credit cards, smart cards, etc. How many people have spent themselves into financial hell with credit cards?

Now for the cookies--If you will spring for the $50 for Norton Utilities Suite it has a feature that will remove all cookies from the system, or you can cherry pick and just remove specific cookies from specific sites. The cookies are clearly marked with the website they came from. I have tried to refuse to accept cookies from sites, but ran into too many sites that refused to accept me if I didn't accept their cookies!!

-- Green (ratdogs10@yahoo.com), October 24, 2000.

The net is likes any tool it has its uses.I don't think it is the big WOW people claim.I don't trust it absoulutly nor take all the info as fact. Just like I don't think people here are always who they claim, heck Hoot is probably a 13 year old girl He He, but it can be good entertainment and I have meet people I have liked and some not,some info that seems true and some not. Just like life. Some day I would like to meet some of you just to see who you really are. By the way I am not a homesteader I am a farmer, my wife is the homesteader.

-- Tom (Calfarm@msn.com), October 24, 2000.

Wow, I guess I can't type something in Appleworks and have it come up okay on here. Sorry about all the weird squares. They are supposed to be apostrophes.

I don't take cookies unless I have to, but the government sites attach them without showing you from what I understand. I completely and freely admit that as far as the workings of computers I know nothing. I almost don't know how to program a vcr! So I count on what it is that I can read on things and bounce off of others that know more about it. Thanks for your responses, I really do love how people on this forum will often contemplate things and offer insightful replies.

-- Doreen (animalwaitress@yahoo.com), October 24, 2000.

12 months ago we got this computer and I have to admit, we use it more than I expected. I was a member of the lead pencil club until then. With 2 home businesses, now we fax and e-mail each day. I haven't used e-bay. I love barter, but it is few and far between. I think people are shy about their gifts and talents. My favorite barter was for a case of steaks from a wholesaler. I love cash transactions due to the low risk of collection, and I follow all the laws for my business, including reporting all transactions.

-- Anne (HT@HM.com), October 24, 2000.

Gadgets of all sorts really intimidate me. I have yet to figure out how any one of them really works - I mean all their functions. I doubt I will live long enough to master them anyway. I have a $600.00 camera and all I do is load the film, point and shoot. Um, isn't that what you do with ALL cameras? I have a $1,200.00 video cammera (have had it for 6 years) still don't know how to put the date on the video. Not to mention it's always got some sort of something flashing at me when I turn it on. Too much trouble so I rarely use it. $1,500.00 T.V. and about $2,000.00 worth of hi-tech (DVD, VCR, CD Blah, Blah, Blah) stuff that takes three separate remotes to operate! Ain't goin' NEAR that stuff! My $500.00 microwave has come in quite handy for heating leftovers and popping popcorn. I could go on and on but you all get the picture. We have more things in our life we don't know what to do with! It makes me crazy. Computer scared me at first too. I was afraid someone would find a way to find us and come get us or something. Still makes me crazy when I can't get it to do what I want it to do. But I am EXTREMELY "technologically impaired". I have grown to enjoy our computer, at least some aspects of it. Like being able to access this forum. It has done wonders for me. It has given me encouragement, "friendships" (even if they are as faceless as the Amish dolls), support, and knowledge. Of course I restrict my children from access to most of the internet as far as the websites they can access and they can't go into any chats rooms.

By the way....What are "cookies"?

-- Greenthumbelina (sck8107@aol.com), October 24, 2000.

Greenthumbelina, I got this off my Help menu in MSOffice 2000 re: cookies

"Some Web sites store information in a small text file, called a "cookie," on your hard disk.

Cookies contain information about you and your preferences. For example, if you inquire about a flight schedule at an airline's Web site, the site might create a cookie that contains your itinerary. Or it might only contain a record of which pages within the site you visited, to help the site customize the view for you the next time you visit.

Only the information that you provide, or the choices you make while visiting a Web site, can be stored in a cookie. For example, the site cannot determine your e-mail name unless you choose to type it. Allowing a Web site to create a cookie does not give that or any other site access to the rest of your computer, and only the site that created the cookie can read it.

Internet Explorer is set up to allow the creation of cookies; however, you can specify that you be prompted before a site puts a cookie on your hard disk, so you can choose to allow or disallow the cookie; or you can prevent Internet Explorer from accepting any cookies.

You can specify different settings for different security zones. For example, you might want to allow Web sites to create cookies if they are in your Trusted sites or Local intranet zone, prompt you before creating cookies if they are in your Internet zone, and never allow cookies if they are in your Restricted sites zone. "

I have sometimes set up my security to not accept all cookies, and at other times, I simply delete stuff when I feel like it...each time I use the Peecee, or daily, or hardly ever.

Back to the original topic (I think): I love using the internet, particularly the web. I started using it at work over 5 years ago, as part of a team doing a pilot project for a transportation network in King Co. Washington. It was so cool! I just couldn't keep from surfing. I worked my way into an interesting computer job from my "just-in-time" learning.

I really like the potential benefits of this medium... instant communication, sharing of knowledge, the possiblities of democratizing everyone (remember: knowledge is power!), etc. It's truly revolutionary in every sense!!!

And as it was wisely said, it is indeed just another tool, albeit a great one!! Perfect for homesteaders...b/c now we really can live just about anywhere and still have access to information, jobs, friends, etc. Yippeee!!!

-- sheepish (rborgo@gte.net), October 25, 2000.

The down side for me has been that I spend way too much time on the computer, instead of doing "real" stuff that I should be doing. I'm finally getting better at putting the computer on hold and doing my work!! But I've always been one that if I had a good book, couldn't put it down until I'd finished it, and you can never find out all that cyberspace holds, thus you can never "finish" it!

The positive side has been access to a lot of information that would have taken a lot longer to find without the computer. I could have found it, but it would have taken days, weeks, even months. And access to this forum, and the *faceless* friends here has been a definite positive, even though we don't all agree on everything. With e-mail, it has been easier to keep in touch with my family (though most of them still don't write much!).

I was against us getting this computer -- hubby and I had agreed, I thought, not to make any more credit card purchases (his problem, not mine), and without my knowledge he purchased the computer on a Radio Shack card -- all of a sudden we are $2,000 further in the hole. And I just wanted to cry. I didn't mind the thought of a computer, but we really didn't NEED it, and I still don't know if it will ever pay for itself, or if it will always be an expensive, nice, but hard-to- justify toy. Cindy mentioned that she's been selling her puppies via the internet, and I know that a lot of livestock producers seem to be selling their lambs, kids, etc., via the internet, so maybe someday we will be able to go that route, too. And then I will be able to say, well, it was worth it after all. (By the way, we just, finally, got all the credit cards paid off!! Praise the Lord!!)

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), October 26, 2000.

I work for a company that builds these contraptions and have been on the front line ,as it were. I considered it a fad, same as CB radio, at first. Now, I see it as just another source of information. Have no need for all those games and crap out there, just information sites like this forum or newspapers. I even pulled the sound card out of this one as I perfer it being quiet. If I want to play video games, I'll fire up the Nitendo. As far as the other stuff, I still like looking at a person when I buy something.

-- Jay Blair (jayblair678@yahoo.com), October 30, 2000.