Hi, I've been struggling with this now for almost a year. I don't feel like I have anyone who can lead me in the right direction.

Just last year I found out that I needed documents to show that I was in fact Catholic in order to get married. But when I spoke to my parents they completely denied that I was ever baptized. This came as a shock to me as I grew up believing and feeling that I was Catholic. As a little girl I went to Catholic school and recalled distinctly going to Church with my Mom. I suppose I should have realized this when I grew older, I was the only one going to Church and God was never our topic of conversation. In fact my Mom just now said she only believes in praying to our ancestors. What???!! I have no way of finding out anything as I have no idea where I was baptized (if I was ever).

I understand, I could still get married within the Church as my fiance is Catholic. However, the biggest issue for me now is that I don't know what I am. I feel like I have no one to talk to. I'm not at all comfortable speaking to my Priest. He said I could just get married as a non-Catholic when I asked if I could be baptized. Have I sin? All these years living as a Catholic but actually not being so?

Please help me. I am completely lost and don't even know what I am anymore.

Thank you

-- Lisa (lis147@hotmail.com), October 21, 2000

Answers

Jmj

Very dear new friend, Lisa,
I am responding to your earnest plea: "I don't feel like I have anyone who can lead me in the right direction. ... I feel like I have no one to talk to."

I believe that you are a Catholic -- at the very least, by Baptism of Desire (if not by Water). Please depend on me to do my best to help you make some progress, either by some advice or by contacting some people for you, or both. You should not be in this "no-man's-land" in which you find yourself.

I am going to write to you by private e-mail very soon, sending you a special e-mail address at which you can reach me this weekend [not the one that you see below].

Please don't give up. Have confidence, and be at peace.

God bless you
John

-- J. F. Gecik (jgecik@desc.dla.mil), October 21, 2000.

Hi Lisa,

John is a good man, and will do his best to help you. Also , if you want there is a # 1-800-NEED HIM , the people there can also help you.

Love ,

Susan

-- Susan Shepherd-Magistro (heartwjesus@yahoo.com), October 21, 2000.

Dear Lisa:

If you were raised as a Catholic, went to church and attended Catholic school, can you not get baptized at this time? If you marry a catholic and you are non-catholic, one of the conditions will be that you agree that childen born of the marriage be raised as a catholic. Talk to your parish priest and explain the situation to him. I am certain that with your background, it would probably not take too much instruction before your baptism. Unlike the rest of us who were baptized as infants, you will be aware of the commitment you make. My son and his spouse did not baptize my gand-daughter, but I baptized her myself, as I am certain her other gandmother has. Would anyone have done something similar with you?

I wish you all the best and hope you have a happy mariage and children. I am blessed with my son and now with my wonderful grand-daughter. That is what life is all about.

Love,

Claire

-- Claire Reni de Cotret (crq@sympatico.ca), October 22, 2000.

Hi, Claire.
You wrote words to this effect: If a non-Catholic marries a Catholic, the non-Catholic must agree that childen born of the marriage will be raised as a Catholic.
That used to be true, but it was changed in the 1983 Code of Canon Law, lest the old law be misunderstood as a violation of the non-Catholic's religious liberty.
Today, the Catholic must promise to do all that he/she can to raise the child(ren) to be Catholic. And the non-Catholic simply must be informed that the Catholic spouse has made this promise. The non-Catholic does not have to openly agree; nor does he/she have to promise to aid in the Catholic education of the children.
Presumably, if true love exists, the non-Catholic will respect the promise that the Catholic has made. But if he/she feels strongly enough against it, it may be better if they were not married.
Fortunately none of this is going to be a problem in Lisa's case.
God bless you.
John

-- J. F. Gecik (jgecik@desc.dla.mil), October 22, 2000.

Oops! I forgot to mention something.
For Catholics, the ordinary ministers of the Sacrament of Baptism are the priest and the deacon, for various good reasons.
The only time that people other than these ordained ministers are permitted to confer Baptism -- Christian laity, or even non-Christians -- is in the case of medical emergency (danger of death).

The Church does not permit a child to be baptized against the wishes of the parents. And an ordained Catholic minister cannot baptize a child brought for baptism by the parents, if the minister does not have a "well-founded hope" that the child will be raised as a Catholic. (Unfortunately, this sometimes happens.)

I realize, Claire, that you were unaware of these laws when you baptized the little one, so no one can find fault with you.
John

-- J. F. Gecik (jgecik@desc.dla.mil), October 22, 2000.

Ohhhh Noooo,

I made a mistake(believe it or not), That # I gave you Lisa should be --1-888-NEED HIM OXOX,

Susan

-- Susan Shepherd-Magistro (heartwjesus@yahoo.com), October 22, 2000.

Hi, Susan.
I thank you for being so nice as to tell Lisa that I am a "good man," but it would have meant a lot to me if you had stopped there.
You see, she wrote because she is in distress. She has been living her life as a Catholic Christian, thinking that she had been baptized. Now she is unsure of her status, so she came here -- a Catholic Internet forum -- to seek help.

Under the circumstances, it is not really right for her to be sent to 1-888-NEED-HIM. I called the number, listened to a moderately long recording, and was eventually asked (not by a live person) to leave my name and address, so that materials could be mailed to me within four to six weeks. From the very familiar language of the recorded presentation (which included a form of the "sinner's prayer), this appears to be an service maintained by a non-Catholic Christian group (probably evangelical or fundamentalist). The whole message was very basic and was geared to drawing a non-Christian into a relationship with Jesus.
Therefore, it was clear to me that calling this phone number would not be appropriate for Lisa. She already has a relationship with Jesus, she is a member of the Catholic Church that Jesus founded, and she came to this forum (not a Protestant one) for a valid and clear reason -- and her reason was not related to being drawn into a different religious body.

I have nothing negative to say about the folks who have set up the 1-888 number, since I believe that they do something good whenever they draw a non-Christian into a relationship with Jesus. However, it is necessary that their missionary work to be to non-Christians only. I think that it is not appropriate for their phone number to be recommended at a Catholic Internet forum, since that would imply a mistaken belief either that (1) Catholics are not Christians or that (2) Catholics are inferior Christians who are "sheep that should be led to a better pasture."
So I just request that all Christians -- Catholics, Orthodox, and Protestants -- respect each other's faith and refrain from proselytizing when visiting each other's Internet sites. I believe that most clergy of all three of our groups would stand with me on this.

May God bless you for respecting this request.
John

-- J. F. Gecik (jgecik@desc.dla.mil), October 22, 2000.

John,

How did you get all that from a phone # ? It's a wonderful organization, who's sole purpose is to help people with a personal relationship with Jesus. It is not meant to change anyones religion. I'm sorry that you assumed there were any implications toward Catholicism.

God Bless you!

Susan

-- Susan Shepherd-Magistro (heartwjesus@yahoo.com), October 23, 2000.

At the end of Lisa's message she said she was LOST. Who better to help the lost ,than Jesus ! In Luke 11:23 Jesus said "Anyone who is not for me is against me, he is hurting my cause". Right.

Susan

-- Susan Shepherd-Magistro (heartwjesus@yahoo.com), October 23, 2000.

I'm sorry, Susan, though I have to stand by what I said last time. I did not want to have to write that note, but it seemed necessary after I had called the phone number and listened to the recorded message.

I'm glad that you had only a good motive for leaving the number. However, I think that you must have misunderstood Lisa. I believe that, when she said that she was "lost," she didn't mean that she was spiritually lost, but only that she needed help to straighten out her situation as a Catholic, so that she could have a happy Catholic wedding.

God bless you.
John

-- J. F. Gecik (jgecik@desc.dla.mil), October 23, 2000.

Hello everyone,

I just want to thank everyone for their thoughts in my time of need. I never expected responses which were as kind and immediate as this.

I actually went and spoke to my Priest again and it was suggested that we would first do it whereby I am a non-Catholic marrying a Catholic. However, at the same time I will be starting RCIA this week. I'm actually quite happy with this as what was most important to me was that whatever happens, my choice for being Catholic has nothing to do with getting married in the Church.

You see, I never questioned what my faith was until I started looking into the documents. In fact I'm almost embarrased that I should have realized all this sooner. I don't even remember my communion etc... The Catholic Church is where I've always felt at peace with. My most precious memory was being in preschool and I kept getting in trouble because I would always wander away to sit by this large statue of The Virgin Mary. I would just sit there and talk to her. They were private moments.

You see, like John said I have the faith but I do think I need to learn alot more. It's crazy but to this day, I still have a rough time following the service.

So once again, I thank everyone for their thoughts. If you all don't mind, I'm sure I will be coming to you from time to time.

Thank you

-- Lisa (lis147@hotmail.com), October 23, 2000.

Dear Lisa,

I just wanted to let you know that I participated in RCIA last year and was Baptised and Initiated into the Faith at the Easter Vigil. It was a very enlightening and moving experience for me as well as my "cradle-Catholic" husband. If you'd like to chat about RCIA anytime, just let me know. I know the program differs from Parish to Parish, but the basic information is the same. Hugs to you! Tiesha

-- Tiesha Johnson (Tieshann@aol.com), October 23, 2000.

+
Wow, what a great way to end my day -- seeing these two happy messages at the bottom of the thread!
Thanks, Lisa, for letting us know that things are going to work out so smoothly. (I was worried about your pastor especially.)
I look forward to your coming back here to ask for information, prayers, or just friendly chatter -- any time you want.
To me, it's fantastic the way Tiesha has jumped in with a very special helping hand to offer you -- her RCIA experience. Thank you, Tiesha! I would not be able to help Lisa in that way.

God bless you both abundantly.
John

-- J. F. Gecik (jgecik@desc.dla.mil), October 23, 2000.

Dear Lisa:

I'm very happy for you.

God Bless,

Claire

-- Claire RenC) de Cotret (crq@sympatico.ca), October 24, 2000.

Dear Lisa,

I pray for Gods Blessings in your life and for Jesus to be the Lord of both your lives! Here's a little poem I came across:

I once thought marriage took just two to make a go, but now I am convinced it takes the Lord also. And not one marriage fails where Christ is asked to enter, as lovers come together with Jesus at the center. But marriage seldom thrives and homes are incomplete until He is welcomed there to help avoid defeat. In homes where Christ is first, it's obvious to see, those unions really work, for marriage still takes three........By Perry Tanksley

Three is even better, for a triple-braided cord is not easily broken.(Ecclesiastes 4:12)

Love ya!

Susan

-- Susan Shepherd-Magistro (heartwjesus@yahoo.com), October 25, 2000.

Ok, here's the deal:

You were apparently not baptized but you don't mention if you received the sacrements of Holy Communion or Confirmation.

Get yourself over to your Roman Catholic parish and arrange for (a) your baptism, (b) your first Holy Communion and (c) your Confirmation.

Being Catholic allows you the right to the seven Holy sacrements. Get them done as soon as possible.

Being Catholic is also a state of mind and heart. No matter what paperwork you have or don't have, so long as your mind and heart is that of a Catholic, then getting the physical details taken care of should be no problem at all. Don't keep dwelling on the problem, solve it by getting done what needs to be done.

-- Marika Buchberger (marika57@earthlink.net), November 11, 2000.

Hello, Marika.
I was wondering ... Did you respond to Lisa's original question without reading the responses and her later message? It certainly seems that way, and that's unfortunate.

You wrote to Lisa: "You were apparently not baptized but you don't mention if you received the sacraments of Holy Communion or Confirmation."
But, Marika, you answered your own question. If Lisa was not baptized, she could not have received any other Sacraments. Moreover, Lisa did mention this: "I don't even remember my communion etc." I suspect that you did not read that in Lisa's later response. She also stated that she "will be starting RCIA" and that she is "quite happy with this." In other words, she already has done what you advised -- prepare for her "Sacraments of Initiation."

This is a side issue, but I found it interesting that you wrote these words: "Being Catholic allows you the right to the seven Holy sacraments."
I don't intend to open a controversy here, but it is not actually true that every Catholic has a right to all of the Sacraments. Most Catholics have never even thought about this. For example:
1. A profoundly retarded Catholic can either definitely or probably not celebrate/receive Marriage, Holy Orders, or Reconciliation.
2. Only men called by God to the priesthood can receive Holy Orders. The other men do not have a "right" to it.
3. No woman can validly receive Holy Orders.
4. Most priests do not have a right to celebrate Marriage.
5. Single laypersons who cannot exchange consent (for a variety of reasons) cannot validly celebrate Marriage.

From the above, we can see that only a tiny percentage of Catholics receive all seven Sacraments!
All are baptized. Most are confirmed. Most are reconciled. Most receive Holy Communion. Many are anointed. Many are married. But only approximately one out of 2,000 become priests -- and very few of these are married or widowers.
Interesting!

God bless you.
John

-- J. F. Gecik (jgecik@desc.dla.mil), November 11, 2000.

John, God bless you too.

Someday, and hopefully soon, women will be priests in the church.

-- Marika Buchberger (marika57@earthlink.net), November 11, 2000.

+
Dear Marika,
I was so sad to read your reply.
Perhaps you'll recall that I wrote these words: "I don't intend to open a controversy here."
That was intended to be a signal -- or, should I say, a request -- to everyone not to make a statement such as the one you made ["Someday, and hopefully soon, women will be priests in the church."]

Apparently you have not heard that the Catholic Church (within the past decade) has made a final, definitive, and infallible statement that what you hoped for will never happen. The reason is that it is impossible for it to happen.

The Church says that the male priesthood is not a Church "rule," or a Church-developed teaching, but the very will of Christ, expressed by his actions. And, of course, the Church is incapable of changing or disobeying the will of Jesus. That is why I stated point #3 as follows: "No woman can validly receive Holy Orders." It is simply impossible and always will be impossible.

It is important to say that this is no reflection on the abilities or holiness of women. I work with professional women who are brighter than many of the professional men in the office. I admire the average Catholic woman as more devout and more loving than the average man -- often much more than the average priest. And women are seen in greater numbers in church. But no one, man or woman, has a "right" to be a priest -- and no one "earns" the privilege by intelligence or holiness. Rather, in order to be a Catholic, each of us must believe that it is God who calls a small number of men, and only men -- sometimes the least likely of men -- and we cannot dispute his decisions.

Since this is an infallible teaching, it is not optional and not open to further debate or even to persistent doubt. We must accept this teaching submissively in order to remain Catholic. Each of us can accept it, through prayer for the grace of humility.

God bless you.
John

-- J. F. Gecik (jgecik@desc.dla.mil), November 11, 2000.

Do you spend a lot of time alone, John???

-- Marika Buchberger (marika57@earthlink.net), November 11, 2000.

This has really gotten off the subject, but here goes.

John,

Believe it or not, I have to agree with you on this one. God made woman to be a companion to man(Genesis 2:18-25). It would have made me choke to say that 5 years ago.But since I've gotten into God's Word and am learning to submit to His will ,I realize that He has a plan for each of us.He gave us the right to choose His way or our own. But since He created us , it makes sense that He knows what works and what doesn't. Right.

Marika, have you read any of Elizabeth Elliot's writings? I was a brand new baby Christian when I first started reading her.I thought she was nuts , no way was I going to be submissive.She seemed extreme to me.But as I grow in my faith and read my Bible, it's amazing . I'm finally gaining some wisdom. If you would like to know more about Elizabeth Elliot, I think you could find info on line. She was a missionary, working in Equador, translating Bibles into the Quichuos language. Her husband, Jim Elliot was killed by the Auca Indians. And Elizabeth later actually led the men, who killed her husband, to Christ.She lives in the States now and is still writing.

I hope I haven't offended you, Marika. I just had something to say and there it is. In love and kindness through my Savior,Jesus Christ.

Susan

-- Susan Shepherd-Magistro (heartwjesus@yahoo.com), November 11, 2000.

Thank you for your kind words.

I'm never offended by any idea or comment so long as the idea or comment is presented in a humble, christian-like manner.

-- Marika Buchberger (Marika57@earthlink.net), November 11, 2000.

Hi, Susan.
I was pretty sure that you would agree. It was not a surprise. My experience is that the majority of women who become involved in evangelical or fundamentalist protestantism agree with us on this.

Hi, Marika.
Do I "spend a lot of time alone?" No, I don't spend any time alone.
[Sorry, I won't be able to date you (_8^D).]

God bless you both.
John

-- J. F. Gecik (jgecik@desc.dla.mil), November 11, 2000.