Filters:set for 75mm,110mmXL and 150 mmgreenspun.com : LUSENET : Large format photography : One Thread
Hi! I am beginner in LF. I have Horseman FA. Recently i got my Rod. Grandagon 75mm N, Shn. 110mm XL and Rod. Sironar 150mm S.
What will be the best set of filters for these lenses? I will use UV,Skylight and linear Polarizer.
77 mm filters (slim or common?) and step up rings for each lense? Are filters for rear part (52mm) of 110XL usefull? Can I use UV for protection of rear element of 110mmXL?
Do I need center filters for 75 and 110 XL? Thanks, Dmitri
-- Dmitri S. Orlov (email@example.com), October 17, 2000
An important point to remember is that you must use B+W EW filters on the front of Schneider XL lenses. A standard filter will come into contact with the front element of these lenses. A center filter for the 110 XL is not necessary, but many photographers like to use one at all times. Try it out and see if you fell you need one.
-- Michael Klayman (firstname.lastname@example.org), October 18, 2000.
You can also use Heliopan WA filters on your lenses or, a less expensive alternative, use a Heliopan thin step-up ring and Heliopan's standard slim filters in a larger size. Then you don't need special order filters
While some may feel a center filter isn't needed for the 110 Schneider germany apparently feels differently. The latest factory price list at Photokina '00-'01 plainly lists the IIIb center filter for the 110 on pg 5 of the price list.
Perhaps this is because when doing movements you may no longer be within the center of the lens' coverage and have fall off assymetrically as you move toward an edge of the lens coverage.
-- Bob Salomon (email@example.com), October 18, 2000.
Dimitri, I can't comment on the 75 or 150, only the 110XL. This lens "suffers" from having a front element that is VERY close to the rim of the lens. This means that if 67mm filters are fitted, the pitch of the filter brings the glass extremely close to that of the lens element. Many users of this lens (myself included) concerned about this, have resorted to various methods to solve this "annoyance". I favour using a step up ring (from 67 to 77mm) and 77mm filters. I realise that there are purpose made "wide angle" filters but trying to track one down here in the U.K. is a nightmare, before the added shock of the price !! The step up method is, as far as I can make out, virtually identical to the B+W one, but MUCH cheaper. I have not had any problems with vignetting on 5x4 (even with large degree of movement)and many users will testify that the covering power of this lens is greater than the literature from Schneider suggests. Good luck in what is the most absorbing and rewarding branch of photography. Regards Paul
-- paul owen (firstname.lastname@example.org), October 18, 2000.
I strongly suggest a 100mm x100mm (100 x 125 for grad filters) set of filters, along with a two slot filter holder and the appropriately sized adapter rings from either Lee or Hi-Tech (AKA Formatt in the UK).
If you want glass I highly recommend the filters from Heliopan.
And I now agree with Bob Saloman about the inadviseability of mounting filters on the the rear of any lens, unless they are Wratten gel filters in pristine condition.
-- Ellis Vener (email@example.com), October 18, 2000.
"While some may feel a center filter isn't needed for the 110 Schneider germany apparently feels differently. The latest factory price list at Photokina '00-'01 plainly lists the IIIb center filter for the 110 on pg 5 of the price list.
Perhaps this is because when doing movements you may no longer be within the center of the lens' coverage and have fall off assymetrically as you move toward an edge of the lens coverage."
Just couldn't resist another chance to bash the competition and spread more misinformation, could you Bob. Face it, the Schndeider 110mm Super Symmar XL is probably THE BEST large format lens ever made, and the fact that the company you represent doesn't have anything that even comes close seems to prompt you to flood the online large format community with a never ending campaign of disinformation concerning this amazing lens.
Here's a few facts from someone who has actually used this lens. It is AMAZING! You will not need a center filter for use on 4x5, even with large movements (the original poster is shooting with a Horseman FA, a compact field camera with limited movements - he won't come close to pushing the coverage of this lens). Since this lens easily covers 5x7, with a great deal to spare. A center filter MIGHT be desired by users of that format who use extensive movements (architecture, for example). Also, even though the specs don't officially list it as covering 8x10, in actual use, it does (barely). This is an extremely wide lens for 8x10 (comparable to 55mm on 4x5), so most users attempting to shoot 8x10 with this lens will likely benefit from a center filter.
Dimitri, the original poster didn't state what format he's shooting, but since he mentioned he's using a Horseman FA and the 75mm lens he mentioned only covers 4x5, it's safe to assume that's the format he's shooting. So Dimitri, based on my personal experience, on 4x5, you will need a center filter for the 75mm, but not the 110 XL. This is based on my actual use and my sensibilities shooting with high contrast color transparency film (Velvia). Some people don't find a center filter necessary with a 75mm, but I've used both the Rodenstock and the Nikkor SW and found both benefitted from a center filter. I have never spoken to anyone who has actually used the 110 XL on 4x5 that felt a center filter was necessary.
-- firstname.lastname@example.org (email@example.com), October 18, 2000.
I have both a Grandagon 75mm f/4.5 and a 110 XL. If I were to choose to use a center filter, could I get away with buying just one and using it on both (they each have 67mm threads) or is there enough difference between the light fall off patterns on the two that specific filters would be a necessity? I have been using both on a 4X5 with minimal problems, but recently bought a 5X7 and will be testing the limits of the 110.
-- Douglas A. Benson (firstname.lastname@example.org), October 18, 2000.
I believe HP Marketing (Bob Salomon's employer) does handle a version of the 110XL under the Linhof brand name. I certainly acknowledge your sentiments, but in this case, I didn't detect any misinformation in what Bob wrote.
Certainly Heliopan CF's can be used on the 110XL without problems, and this brand *is* usually less expensive than Schneider CF's (although I've purchased grey market Schneider at the same price as Heliopan). There is no doubt that Schneider *is* recommending the use of a CF as Bob wrote. (BTW - the Schneider IIIb CF is the same one as Schneider specs for the 58XL. I'd bet you could also use the IIIc CF (for 47XL) on the 110XL with excellent results.)
As for Bob's last assertion regarding the need for the CF because of light fall-off. Well, isn't he just stating the consequence of light fall-off in optics based on physics? The need for a CF is always a personal choice. My experience w/ the 110XL shows no normal need for a CF. However, there is no question in my mind that if you crank this lens out to the edge of the image circle, you do see objectionable fall-off when shooting chromes.
-- Larry Huppert (Larry.Huppert@mail.com), October 19, 2000.
As far as I know, HP Marketing does NOT offer the Schneider 110mm Super Symmar XL in any form. Perhaps you are confusing it with the 72mm Super Angulon XL or the 90mm Super Angulon that HP imports for the Linhof Technorama SIII. I have never seen mention, in any US publication, of the 110mm SS XL being available for the Linhof 6x17. Perhaps it IS available in Europe, I don't know, but that's not HP's territory, so it's irrelevant to this discussion.
As far as Scheider *recommending* the use of a center filter on the 110 XL, I have seen no such specific *recommendation* in any way, shape or form from Schneider. All I have seen is that they *offer* it as an item in their catalog for those who may find it necessary to their specific application. Obviously, this is not a black and white issue (no pun intended, really). The need for a center filter on this lens is both highly application dependent and highly subjective (a statement that applies to center filters in general).
I agree that SOME users may find it necessary (5x7 shooters using moderate to large off-axis displacemnents, or 8x10 shooters in general). Still the original poster's question, the question that Bob responded to, asked specifically about the need of a center filter when using this lens on a Horseman FA. This is a 4x5 field/technical camera with VERY limited movements. I'm not passing judgement on the Horseman here (it's a very nice little camera that gives many of the advantages of other clamshell metal field/technical cameras in a much lighter, more compact package), just passing along a few facts. The Horseman FA has NO rear rise, fall or shift. It has NO front fall, 28mm of front rise and 30mm of front shift. It also has limited front and rear swings and tilts (in the 10 - 15 degree range in all cases) I have personally used the 110mm Super Symmar XL on 4x5 cameras with MUCH more extensive movements than possible with the Horseman FA, and have NEVER felt the need to use a center filter with this lens. This is, of course, my subjective opinion, but I know many, many full time 4x5 shooters who also use this lens, and NOT ONE of them has ever mentioned using, or needing a center filter. So, while I completely agree in principal with your statemtnt: "there is no question in my mind that if you crank this lens out to the edge of the image circle, you do see objectionable fall-off when shooting chromes", I maintian the original poster has no way of coming close to cranking this lens out to the edge of it's very ample image circle (given the equipment he clearly spelled out using in his original post).
I'm not arguing the laws of physics here, yes, the further you move off axis the more fall-off there will be. What I am arguing is the laws of common sense, practical knowledge and fair play. Bob's response was way off, given the original poster's specific question. I can't speak for Bob's intentions or motives, but his response did nothing to help the original poster, merely confuse the issue. Funny how Bob specifically implied that a center filter was needed for the 110 XL, but did not mention needing one for the 75mm Rodenstock Grandagon-N, which due to the physical geometries involved will have MUCH greater fall-off than the 110mm Schneider Super Symmar XL. I wonder why???? Don't physics apply to the products Bob sells, just his competitor's products???
-- Kerry Thalmann (email@example.com), October 24, 2000.
Thanks a lot for all advises! Dmitri
-- Dmitri S. Orlov (firstname.lastname@example.org), October 24, 2000.
"As far as I know, HP Marketing does NOT offer the Schneider 110mm Super Symmar XL in any form."
We offer all Schneider lenses and have done so for over 20 years through Linhof as well as Nikkor T optics.
We will also be offering more Nikon lenses through Wista.
-- Bob Salomon (email@example.com), October 25, 2000.