With the introduction of Elan 7E, I was thinking of upgrading from my Elan IIE. But the cost to upgrade (even assuming I sell my Elan for a decent amount) did not seem worth the $$s for the new features of Elan 7E. For just $400 more, I can get an EOS 3 (I can live without built-in flash or pic modes), which seems the best way to "upgrade" right now from an Elan IIe. I think $400 is worth to get stuff like 45 focus points, true spot metering, even 8-point average spot metering, interchangable screens (and other options with some accessories, like advanced timer controller)

Opinions anyone.

-- Alexander Mihajlov (alex@spss.com), October 16, 2000

Answers

Alexander, In theory, your plan sounds well thought out and smart. But.... If you have used the Elan IIe for very long you might be suprised that when you move up in the Canon line, the dials mysteriously disapper from the top of the cameras. No dials on the 3 or 1v or 1N. Just buttons that could have a steep learning curve. I'm not saying you couldn't learn, but it might be extra difficult for a while.

If you have been using the BP-50 with your IIe, the vertical grip option for the 3 will cost $440.00 because it's also a motor drive booster, not just a vertical grip option.

You can get a very, very nice handheld spotmeter (which is a better option anyway), some film and a surdy tripod for less than the cost of the EOS 3.... I'm sure a lot of people who own the 3 also use a handheld meter exclusively.

I agree that the 7e is a little too much over the IIe in terms of cost. I don't see $140.00 in extra stuff on it. B7H is asking $540 and $400, respectively.

-- Colin Miller (ckmiller@pond.net), October 16, 2000.

I am also considering upgrading to the Elan 7 from the Elan II. These are the Elan 7's improved features that I find useful:

1. DOF preview button 2. 4fps vs. 2.5 fps 3. faster AF 4. better flash metering? 5. verticle grip with a custom function button 6. quieter operation

I was considering upgrading to the EOS 3 for some time, but I decided that I could live without a spot meter. I'll use the money I saved to get a Minolta Autometer IV F or buy 2 EOS 30s for the price of an EOS 3.

-- Martin Wong (mrwong@sfsu.edu), October 17, 2000.

My advice is to look at what features you feel are missing from your Elan IIe istead of looking at what newer features are now available. Once you've decided what features you need (not want ;-) ) pick the body that best meets those requirements.

If your problems with the Elan IIe are "user interface" related, then only hands on experience can help you to decide.

-- Geoffrey S. Kane (grendel@pgh.nauticom.net), October 17, 2000.

Nothing wrong with buying a camera for the features you WANT either. In fact there's nothing wrong with buying a camera because you want to change the look of what you're packing. You're probably not considering upgrading to make a good long term investment, so, if you got the money, buy what you like. If you don't you'll just spend it on something else.

The EOS 3 is a great camera, but there is nothing in it that the Elan 7 doesn't have that I really want. So I'd buy the 7, and probably will.

-- Jim Strutz (jimstrutz@juno.com), October 17, 2000.

I'd love to have an EOS-3, despite the extra size and weight (and noise - not a huge concern to me, but many people have complained about it). For me, though, it's probably not worth it; the extra money would beter be put towards replacing my 100-300 USM with the 100-400L IS USM. The price difference is also prohibitive - here in Canada, the price difference between the 7e and the 3 is around CAD1200, or USD800. Yikes!

One other thing I like about the 7e is that it has ECF _and_ built-in dioptric correction. I don't always wear my glasses, and it would be nice to be able to see everything in the viewfinder clearly without them. You can do that with the 3, but only by swapping a correction eyepiece on and off depending on whether you're wearing your glasses or not.

-- Steve Dunn (steved@ussinc.com), October 18, 2000.

Re: I don't always wear my glasses, and it would be nice to be able to see everything in the viewfinder clearly without them.

I just got my 7/e and was pleasantly surprised at the eye relief of the viewfinder. I can easily keep both eyes open (and a bit away from the eye cup) while composing and watch for subjects/movement outside the viewfinder. This is as close as I've gotten to RF-type viewing on an SLR. The EOS 3 and 1V may be similar in this respect.

-- John McCormack (jpmccormac@aol.com), October 26, 2000.

Wow. Are they in the shops now? I didn't know that they were out yet.

Hey, John, how do you like it? Is this an upgrade for you? If so, then what from? And what do you think of the improved eye-focusing?

I was considering the 7e myself, but I'm still deciding.

-- (Martiangeneral@hotmail.com), October 27, 2000.

Just received my 7E & am also surprised by the ECF having never used it or played with it before. Very happy with the build quality & features, bought it mainly as a second body. Can't say if it is worth the upgrade & agree with above - evaluate your needs & if the 7E fits, buy it.

-- Mark Mitchell (ms_mitchell@usa.net), October 28, 2000.

A. What I like about the ELAN 7/e so far:

Eye relief is very good. I can compose a shot with both eyes open and still see everything in the viewfinder. YMMV.

Eye Control Focus (ECF) works pretty well for me, but I'm still calibrating the 7/e. I didn't have ECF on my Elan II so I can't compare its speed or accuracy with any other ECF version.

Fits snugly in (my) hands. Vertical holding is very good and should be outstanding with the vertical grip. The 7 feels more "dense" than the Elan II, though weight is slightly less. The right side grip of the 7 protrudes less than the II's grip due to the smaller batteries used in the 7.

True Mirror Lock-Up. Works the same way as MLU on the EOS 3.

The DEP mode on the 7 works the same as on the II/e. Some people speculated that the 7 used Auto-DEP as on the Rebel 2000 (Not true.)

Mirror black out time is mercifully short.

The 7 is the quietest SLR I've ever used (including the original Elan).

The eye cup fits better than the one on my older Elan II (My Elan II's cup was a loosey goosey.)

Luckily, you can turn off the AF assist light; that flashing strobe will wake the dead!

The AE lock button has a lighter pressure level.

Did I mention that it's quiet?

It makes me a better photographer - NOT. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- B. What I don't like about the Elan 7/e so far:

The metering modes switch of the Elan II is gone. Metering is now done through a FUNCtion button on the back of the camera. Not nearly as functional, in my opinion.

The jury is out on whether the metering of the 7 is any better than the metering on the Elan II. Checking the camera's meter against an incident meter revealed that the 7's reflective meter MAY be underexposing about 1 stop in all metering modes. I have not, repeat NOT, tested the 7's meter with slide film yet.

No IR AF assist light.

-- John McCormack (jpmccormac@aol.com), October 30, 2000.

One question that might be worthwhile asking is do I really want to upgrade now from a film camera to another film camera. There are probably people out there who know much more about this than I do, but isn't digital technology advancing quickly? I am assuming that you will be using slide film predominantly - from what I have read and heard, it will be a while before digital catches up with the quality of a slide. Anyone else have some thoughts on this? I currently own an Elan II and have thought about upgrading to a 7 as well.

-- Bryan Szloh (bszloh10@gte.net), November 01, 2000.

My understanding is that digital vs film photopgraphy will always coexist together perhaps until those doing digital are able to buy extremely high resolution color printers. When powerful, hi-res color printers are really affordable for the average man, only then is there any real threat to film pgotography being replaced by digital (this is assuming digital photographers want to get hard copy output of their work and not just are satisfied with digital output). At least that is what I understand to be the real crux issue.

-- Alexander Mihajlov (alex@spss.com), November 01, 2000.

Well, I tried out my theory and bought an EOS 3.... And I wound up returning it. Why? a) I came to like the dials which EOS 3 did not have, b) I could not stand it that on EOS 3 you never know battery condition on LCD panel, c) it is heaver and quit noisy actually d) no infared remote shutter trigger e) no sound on 10 second delay timer

I will upgrade to Elan 7E Qd for these reasons: a) I can sell my Elan IIE QD for a good price b) I really do miss having pop up flash, for unexpected situations c) I have ST-E2 and 2 550EXs, and Elan IIE is not fully compatable with that. d) 10% partial metering is still doable compared to spot metering (of EOS 3) e) I really like having full auto (green) pic mode, in case you got to give the camera to a stranger to have him shoot you f) infared remote shutter release g) suppose to be quiet camera. f) a few more eye control points. g) modeling flash comes in handy. Only C and E and F and G apply to Elan 7E vs Elan IIE.

-- Alexander Mihajlov (alex@spss.com), November 01, 2000.

Alex: What did you think of the 45 autofocus points? I am seriously considering upgrading from my 19 year old Canon AE1 FD system to the Elan 7e. However I often wonder if I will someday regret not buying the EOS 3. The Elan 7 has everything for photography of moving subjects except the high number of focus points to track a moving subject. Though I admit that I rarely photograph moving subjects.

What do you think?

-- Howard Z (howard@howardz.com), November 02, 2000.

Dear Howard:

Concerning 45 focus points: I think it all depends on how quickly you need to compose a shot. Since you already mentioned you rarely shoot moving objects, my guess is that you always will have enough time to frame a shot. So moving the Elan 7 to the nearest eye control focus point is just a little more tiny effort than catching a closer EOS 3 focus point. 1 second, 2 seconds max? How often can you NOT live with that 1-2 seconds difference? For me, I almost never shoot moving objects and usually have time, like a second or two, to think before I fire.

Also, the 45 focus points of EOS 3 sometimes does not always track your eye movement so perfectly. There were a few times I was looking and did not catch the focus point I should have catched. What I had to do was kill the 45 focus points down to 11 to ensure proper catch.

Also, if you want to do spot metering on the eye-controlled slected focus point, you got to use 11 focus points and not 45. I always want metering on the focus point, so I was forced to NOT use the 45 focus points. Effectively I had an 11 focus point camera with EOS 3, not a 45 pointer. So, I was blowing money buying 45 points when I would never use them! It made no sense to me.

Elan's 7 points are better then Elan II's 3 points, and suppose to be even faster than even EOS 3. The Elan 7 is a really good, overall affordable camera with just enough thrills and features to have fun with and feel you got something special, yet simple enough to give to a photographically simple-minded friend to shoot with.

-- Alexander Mihajlov (alex@spss.com), November 02, 2000.

Personally, I've got my eye on a used 620 ($250) to compliment my two 630s... its only got one focus point, but it syncs at 250....

-- Chris Yeager (cyeager@ix.netcom.com), November 02, 2000.

Sometimes I get blurry pictures. Perhaps because I am not focusing properly and need an AF camera, or perhaps I need a tripod despite the 1/focallength rule. Perhaps those photos are when I am using the low quality non-canon lenses.

Although I rarely take any action photos, it seems like Canon is making me pay for that capability. If I have to pay for these features, then I want the camera to be fully capable of the task.

I'd like to have AF, MLU, and start using a tripod whenever possible in an attempt to get much sharper photos, so that eliminates the Rebel 2000. Even with the Elan 7e, I am paying for high speed photography features such as ECF and higher speed film advance. Actually even having motor film advance at any speed is paying for high speed action photography. But it doesn't do the job properly because it doesn't have the EOS3's AFPS. Probably this is because AFPS is useless without 45 AF points?

The Elan 7e and EOS3 don't even have enough AF points properly positioned for full use of the rule of 3rds. And now you say that the EOS3 can not have the AF point coincide with the exposure metering point unless the 45 AF points are reduced to 11.

It sounds like even the EOS3 doesn't have all it takes for real high speed action photography. It's getting close. ECF, 45AF points, AFPS & AIServo. But its ECF sounds much less reliable than the Elan7e's, and it can't even meter on the AF position. Also MLU usage sounds super inconvenient.

Maybe I should just buy a rebel 2000, and wait a few years for Canon to perfect all this, and then buy again & throw away the rebel.

Or maybe I should just buy low cost used high quality Canon FD prime lenses for my old AE1P. I can buy a whole set of used Canon FD primes for the price of one new Canon EOS "L" lense. Then wait for Canon to either add MLU to the rebel 2000, or add a few more properly positioned AF points to the Elan7e, or make the EOS3 really work properly for high speed photography.

There just seems to be something lacking in each Canon EOS camera.

I don't mind paying for features I don't need - I may start using them in the future. But if I am going to pay for a sports camera or a journalist camera, then I want it to do a good job in that role.

I just feel that if I have to pay for features needed for high speed photography, that Canon just doesn't have the high speed photography solution perfected yet. Perhaps in a few more years they will.

When I am confused and don't know what to buy - I just refuse to buy.

-- Howard Z (howard@howardz.com), November 03, 2000.

Man-o-man am I tired of hunting down information on the internet about he Elan 7e (QD). I have the Elan IIe and LOVE it. It has been very dependable. Why upgrade? Well I am hooked on the idea of 7 focal points instead of the 3. Also the 35 evaluative zones have to be better than 6. The EOS 3 has 21, which brings up another question... Does anyone know how the evaluative metering differs from the 21 zone to the 35 zone? Will the next "flagship" camera by Canon be 35 zone? As you can see, I have more questions than answers. Back to my first sentence. I cannot find much on the web about how the Elan 7e compares to the other EOS cameras in performance (metering especially). I know the camera is new but I am anxiously awaiting. I would have purchased the Elan 7e QD already but B&H is out of stock. After work I am going to a camera shop to look at the EOS 3. I read that it is noisier and heavier than the Elan 7e. Anyone test the new 420ex flash yet? Anyone tried it on the 7e yet? Again too many questions. You know what it is like when you are searching for specs just before you buy. If anyone has any information they would like to share, just drop me an email.

Thanks.

-- Joe Power (JoePower@alltel.net), November 03, 2000.

Re: "...am I tired of hunting down information on the internet about he Elan 7e (QD)."

Try here and search for Elan 7:

http://www.deja.com/[ST_rn=qs]/home_ps.shtml

Re: "After work I am going to a camera shop to look at the EOS 3. I read that it is noisier and heavier than the Elan 7e."

The EOS 3 is a clacking monster compared to the Elan 7/7e.

Re: "Checking the camera's meter against an incident meter revealed that the 7's reflective meter MAY be underexposing about 1 stop in all metering modes. I have not, repeat NOT, tested the 7's meter with slide film yet."

I did shoot some Fuji NPH (at ISO 320) in the Elan 7 and metering was fine for Center Weighted and Evaluative modes. Next test will be slide film.

-- John McCormack (jpmccormac@aol.com), November 06, 2000.

>My understanding is that digital vs film photopgraphy will always >coexist together perhaps until those doing digital are able to buy >extremely high resolution color printers. When powerful, hi-res >color printers are really affordable for the average man, only then >is there any real threat to film pgotography being replaced by >digital (this is assuming digital photographers want to get hard >copy output of their work and not just are satisfied with digital >output). At least that is what I understand to be the real crux >issue. > >-- Alexander Mihajlov

Alex, while really good photo printers are quite costly buying good color prints from places like ofoto and shutterfly is cheap. 8x10s are cheaper then film enlarments at my local photo store, and 4x6's are competatave with reprint costs from 35mm film. For me this turns out to be a lot cheaper then film as I tend to get relitavly few keepers. Regretably my film system is far more flexable (and the 50mm f/1.8 is far shaeper then the PS100's lens), so I've been taking most of my pictures with it since it's purchace...

(p.s. the color from the digital seems more pleasing to me, except from photoaccess which is too over saturated for my tastes)

-- Josh Osborne (stripes@uu.net), November 13, 2000.