Do any of you "away" travellers find the Old Bill infringing your human rights in any way? At West Ham I had my right of way barred for no reason. At Everton I witnessed police brutality in the way of "night sticks" as well as a FORCED march back to Lime St which must have been at least 3 miles. At Arsenal the police decided THEY should close a tube station....so after breaking away from the "mob" I still found myself unable to go my own way without the police fckuing up my life, and on Saturday I was assaulted by Dibble.

These TWATS see a football fan and it's open season for them. They can do whatever they like and we can't do JACK about it.

Fukcin' OB!!

-- Anonymous, October 16, 2000

Answers

Nah mate. We behave ourselves!

To be honest, the (limited) number of times I've been to away games over the last 2-3 seasons, I've had/seen no trouble with Old Bill. The nearest was at your near neighbours, and had we turned the wrong corner, we might have been subject to "inaction" from OB.

I guess it comes down to your reputation and whether they expect trouble. Don't get me wrong - I'm not (necessarily) saying that ManUre fans cause trouble. But their presence may often insight others due to your popularity. If that's the case, then PC Plod might just decide to "strike" while the threat is there.

-- Anonymous, October 16, 2000

I recall the debate on here wrt to trouble after Euroo 2000 and one of your lot....Geordie I think, said that if ya wanted to stay out oif it you could. I replied that sometimes ya can't ...and on Saturday this was again the case. Trapped against a wall on one side, The Baby Squad and 150 barmies on the other side, the OB in front holding ya back and the if ya tried to turn and go another way you were FORCED ahead..INTO the mayhem and bottles. It was freaking naughty. THEN not only assaulted but very nearly FORCED onto the Manchester train.......now why the buggery would I wanna get on that?

-- Anonymous, October 16, 2000

LR, I think your lot have developed a bad reputation which isn't helped by Red Ish publishing Hooliecrit's accounts of the latest trouble. For instance, your lot have had your tickets for Boro reduced owing to being oiks. We, on the other hand, have had our allowance of tickets increased and it's alleged to be a derby. More seriously, has Jools been arrested?

-- Anonymous, October 16, 2000

Just goes to show how stupid they are. Imagine believeing anybody would be headed back to Manchester.

Mind you, Filbert Street is a bit of a hole. Not dissimlar to Goodison or Maine Road (and probably Upton Pk, not that I've been there). Is there a link? Perhaps the tactics they use at these antiquated grounds are exacerb worsened by the condidtions.

However, mine is based purely on limited evidence over the recent seasons. Go back a canny few years and I could see more evidence - pre Taylor I'd guess.

-- Anonymous, October 16, 2000

Douggie...the Boro thing was due to Reds standing and smoking. Boro are daft if they think that'll stop us.

Anyway Douggie....you are meant to be a Law Guru are you not? If you get stopped in th eSt....man-handled and FORCED to go somewhere that you don't want to go who do you go to for help?....Yep, the POLICE!!!

The copper at Arsenal replied "shut up..just because yoiu are losing" when we asked him why he was infringing our basic human rights :-)

-- Anonymous, October 16, 2000

Douggie...how do I access the RI forum?

:-)

-- Anonymous, October 16, 2000

Bad luck LR.....

-- Anonymous, October 16, 2000

LR, you do have fundamental rights but this weighs against issues such as crowd safety and suspicion of committing an offence. Do you remember Euro2000 where allegedly there were loads of lawyers just enjoying a quiet meal and Americans who were sitting having a vin rouge and they were all arrested and treated like animals. Now, this body of people would be expected to be awrae of their human rights and to fairly litigious. Have there been any actions against the Belgian police? That I'm aware of, no. Do you take my point? Perhaps there were fewer genuinely innocent parties than we thought. Additionally, there's a reason they won't let you smoke at the Boro. It's because the air is flammable. Think on!

-- Anonymous, October 16, 2000

You ARE joking about the smoking thing aren't you?

-- Anonymous, October 16, 2000

Smoggies pitch is built on an old tip or something with nasty toxic gases underneath. Also a reason why they're the only(??) Premiership side without undersoil heating.
Never had any trouble with police pre or post games, Spurs fans yes, police no.
Also reminds me of a David Badiel joke - he's been beaten up twice, once by Skinheads and once by police, when you're being beaten up by skinheads you hope the police arrive, when you're being beaten up by the police - what? you want a bunch of skinheads helping you out?

-- Anonymous, October 16, 2000

A fews years ago we were about 5 minutes late at White Hart Lane. At the turnstile as we were walking in a large thug head-butted my mate. Two policeman were about 6 feet away and witnessed the whole thing. When we asked why they didn't do anything one turned back the lapel on his jacket and pointed to a Spurs badge!! Bastids!

-- Anonymous, October 16, 2000

And the thing is Geordie..had you done anything back..to the Spurs thug or the Ob you'd be in the shit.

Dibble at Leicester spent more time filming and taking pictures than crowd control.

-- Anonymous, October 16, 2000

Precisely LR.... which is why you just walk away...

-- Anonymous, October 16, 2000

Do you reckon the filming is just a deterent or do they analyse the crowd movements afterwards.... or have they just got new toys to play with?

-- Anonymous, October 16, 2000

Bad news LR , are you sure it wasnt't the internet police seeking revenge ; - ))

-- Anonymous, October 16, 2000

Take it from me as word mate..there was NO walking away from this on Saturday...the Police wouldn't let ya. Not even allowed to stand still and wait 'till the "boys" had done what they needed to to.

I think it's just intelligence gathereing to be used as and when they pull "evidence" of past football related trouble out of the bag.

-- Anonymous, October 16, 2000

I,m beginning to remember one of the many reasons I left twenty years ago. I hear ya Lanky, When the option to walk away is taken away and is no longer an option, and it,s taken away by those sworn to protect you, it's a bliddy crying shame, and a very dangerous game. The real sad part is...some (not all) of the Police actually enjoy it.

-- Anonymous, October 16, 2000

Pete..I've just banged of a letter to the Chief Constable of Leistershire police. Not only did they stop me physiclly, from walking away from the imminent trouble but they then made me part of a mob that looked like it was gonna break through the ranks of police and cause some serious mayhem. Apart from that I was then a target for bottle and brick throwning hoolies :-(

-- Anonymous, October 16, 2000

I agree totally, let's face it, the original reasons (back in the good old bad old days) for travelling fans being given a Police Escort was for their own safety, as they were usually greatly outnumbered by the home crew. If what I am hearing is correct, and I have no doubt it is, then it has indeed become a punitive measure perhaps aimed at the visiting fans. And yes, there are those that still travel just to cause bother, but times have changed, the vast majority travel to see the match. Apparently the mentality of the local nick has not changed, still in the dark ages. No bullsh!t Lanky, our Calgary Police Force has guns, pepper spray and ASP telescopic Batons, we have Dogs, Horses and Full Riot squads and SWAT teams. Still at a hockey game, (25000 or so drunken Canucks) get this, One Sergeant and six constables. A CFL game, almost 40,000 fans and only two sergeants and twelve constables. Yes, there isn't that much bother over here but it has its moments and our boys CHOOSE to downplay it and target only the troublemakers, not anyone in a red scarf or blue shirt etc. I have been here 20 years and NEVER had anything to fear from the Police here. It's a different thought process, and it appears to work.

-- Anonymous, October 16, 2000

Canada here I come:-)

-- Anonymous, October 17, 2000

Stop Press.

Andy goes Canada. Joins the biggest MUFC supporter's club in western hemisphere.

I'm a lumberjack and I'm OK, I jerk all night and I surf all day, I wear a red blouse, I skip and dance, eat Eccles cakes for tea...

-- Anonymous, October 17, 2000

Lanky, spookily, my mate Ed has just e mailed me re Highbury where 20 Villa fans were chucked out for chanting. The stewards and police were apparently really antagnoistic and nasty.

-- Anonymous, October 17, 2000

I was man-handled by the pollis when I was having some banter with opposition fans, i told them that they were causing trouble when there wasn't even a problem. I was then pushed against a wall, my friend took the filth's umber & was immediatels pushed to the ground by your friendly bobby. Lets be honest, most people joining the police are blokes who failed their exams and often fancy a fight more than your hooligan.

-- Anonymous, October 18, 2000

Hey LR.....when we were at Southampton recently a gang of us had a 'meeting' with two PC Plod's in the garden of the Victory pub, just opposite the station......this photo shows how WE dealt with it!

and the picture was actually taken by the second of the two coppers so that we all got in.

See, the ADULT Geordie NUFC travllers know how to behave themselves and make friends wherever they go! ;0)

-- Anonymous, October 18, 2000

"re Highbury where 20 Villa fans were chucked out for chanting."

Obviously had them marked as imposters infiltrating the Villa "faithful" ;-)

-- Anonymous, October 18, 2000

LOL, Softie. Mind you, what these blokes could do to us lot at Highbury, God only knows. We didn't sit down in the full 90 minutes last year..also, having fashioned the most chance-free 0-0 in history, we started singing "Boring Boring Arsenal" which provoked the biggest roar from the Highbr'y Lib'ry all day.

-- Anonymous, October 19, 2000

ITK....By God there are some feckin' ugly mugs on show there. No wonder you weren't hassled.....the RSPCA would be on to the OB in seconds!!

-- Anonymous, October 19, 2000