(the scene: sitting in a pub full of nouveau riche cockney city boys trying to watch last nights spectacle)

1- Heskey was awful, he has the touch of an arthritic moose. What did he contribute to the match?

2- Why did our substitutes get on the pitch? They have played a combined 1 match between them this season. No wonder there is a problem. What message does this send out to pro's p[laying every game - and doing well in the league? I'd sooner have Michael Gray than that Brown bloke.

3- Why play Scholes where he is not a threat? The guy is our best hope of a goal. He must be very frustrated.

4- Keown was a tower. I'm very impressed by him. That represents an about turn of opinion for me.

5- Where was Owen?

6- Do I really care?

-- Anonymous, October 12, 2000

Answers

Did you not think that Oh Teddy Teddy was our best player...and then he was taken off?

I had to laugh tho...on a United BBS yesterday there was talk of a lot of Reds actuall warming to the Yorkshire inbred Sgt Wilko.....because of the framk and brutak way he spoke...e.g he said the playes on Saturday had 1000's of excuses why we lost to Germany....and he didn't want to hear ANY. Boy did he come out with some fine ones of his own last night.

Players down Team in tatters star players missing bumpy pitch windy.

Any more Howard :-)

-- Anonymous, October 12, 2000

The best one was when he included 'having to deal with Finland's style' as a factor in the result. What? Er, what was his job again?

-- Anonymous, October 12, 2000

I must admit tho'....the result would not have been THAT bad had we beat the Hun last weekend...still....1 from 6 is pish!

-- Anonymous, October 12, 2000

I thought Heskey was one of Englands best players, he frightened the life out of the Finish right back. and got in some good crosses. Shame Cole was such a poor finisher. If Shearer haf been there he woulddn't have fluffed so many chances.

on the other side I thought parlour didn't get forward enough, he didn't do a wingers job. What he did do at the end was spectacular, going straight through the Fins defence and scoring that goal. It was the ref who lost the match yesterday, not the players. Having said that I'd not play either of the Nevilles, Cole, Wise for England again.

-- Anonymous, October 12, 2000

What other full backs are there to pick from?

Right Back:

Wes Brown, Warren Barton, Lee Dixon, Danny Mills

Left Back:

John Harley, Nigel Winterburn, Michael Gray

I'm honestly struggling here to find names partly worthy of an England place. Most of the top teams have these positions filled by non-English players. Any suggestions welcome but I reckon whoever selects the England team will be struggling.

-- Anonymous, October 12, 2000

I've been pondering on the two big problems:

- are we suffering from poor coaching, a lack of talented players, or a combination of both?
- should we appoint a English coach just because he happens to be English, as Bobby Charlton believes is essential?

In relation to the first question, my feeling is that while we lack truly World Class players the players available are nowhere near as bad as they have appeared since Euro2000, when we performed well.
At the moment the players lack belief in the system they are playing in (assuming they even understand what it is), lack a collective understanding, and are playing as individuals rather than as a team. These same players can perform much better if they can be moulded into a real team where indivudal roles are clearly understood, if they believe in the system they are asked to play and also have the necessary confidence in their team-mates to perform within it.

If you accept my first conclusion - AND accept that the players selected will generally wish to do their best - then something must be wrong with the management of the resources - coaching, motivation and overall direction.

If you look back over the period since we won the WC, the truly outstanding and most successful domestic coaches have arguably been Busby, Shankly, and Ferguson - all Scots. Behind them I would put Bill Nicholson (Spurs), Don Revie, Brian Clough, Bob Paisely, George Graham, and perhaps Arsene Wenger. I just can't bring myself to include Dalglish, however successful he may have been domestically.
In addition, Jock Stein and Walter Smith were hugely successful in Scotland, and Bobby Robson has achieved unparalleled success abroad in Holland, Portugal and Spain, as well taking England to the SF of the WC. Don Revie failed miserably with England; Nicholson, Paisley and Clough were never given the opportunity and therefore cannot really be judged.

My conclusions are that England has produced very few outstanding coaches of international calibre during this period, and that the two outstanding English coaches have been Bobby Robson and Terry Vegetables. I'll personally always believe Cloughy could have been a success with England if he'd been given the chance.

While several of the WC winning team have been belly-aching recently, it's very noticeable that none of them, with the arguable exception of Jack Charlton, have achieved anything in management/coaching.

The logical extension of my argument is that Venables should be reappointed. I actually believe he'd do OK, and if we must appoint an Englishman then frankly he is the only sensible choice - our Bobby is too old. However, I also happen to believe you should never go backwards. My insinct is that we need some fresh ideas to shake up the domestic game and cut through the suffocating parochialism that pervades it, and that the time is right to appoint a top foreign coach - IF indeed one can be found. If not, give it to Venables with a four-year contract and let's just bloody-well get on with it.

-- Anonymous, October 12, 2000

I agree with some of these comments. I have avoided airing my view until I can no longer bear it.

Seaman Knacker yard is too good for him, some keepers can play for years, not this one.

Defence, Neville and Brown do not even start for their club why do they play for England? DB thread listing the players is valid, there are shortages in some positions. So why not change to 3 at the back with Keown, Southgate and 1 other?

Midfield What midfield? Scholes and Sherringham, Wise and Parlour? Not a wide man or decent passer amongst them.

Heskey ran and passed from wide, remind you of Shearer when no one else could do it for him he went and did it himself and was crucified for not being on the end of his own crosses!

Cole really is too early to blast him, he has effectively or ineffectually actually only played twice in a row for a full game and with different partners. However has he had the level of criticism about his conversion rate as recent Strikers?

Owen is not an answer when the ball is hit at his feet. His first touch is worse than Heskeys, yes that is possible. He is more effective running on to the ball.

What I cannot understand is this strict adherence to SQUAD members. We have enough players playing in the EPL to pick the ones currently in form. So what if they have not played for England before. If they are playing well in the EPL they should be as good as those on display the last 2 games. I remember back in about 84 when we played the Jormans at Wembley in a friendly. I think it was Viv Anderson was injured so we brought in Garry Mabbutt to play right back. He lost Rumminegger who scored twice and we were beaten.

A friendly in our own stadium and we could not find a "specialist" right back!

I do not care where the nexy manager comes from. I think a foreigner will not have the bias to change an English manager would. I would certainly support Wenger or any other person in the job. I would however prefer someone with experience of English football.

-- Anonymous, October 12, 2000

I think that England may have to play with three at the back due to the lack of decent full backs. Look at the Irish last night they had Carr(Spurs) on the right and Harte(Leeds) on the left, how England could do with those lads.

Three at the back, with, I hate to say it, Dyer at right wing-back and Le Saux as left WB. Hopefully it would beef the midfield up a bit more as well.

-- Anonymous, October 12, 2000

Sorry DB. I juts don't see LKD as a WB. Wide/central midfield, but not a WB. He's not good enough in the tackle (or so I heard in the video review). Actually, I think Griffin would be a better WB than LKD. Not that I'm suggesting he's England class - yet!

-- Anonymous, October 12, 2000

I agree with you Screacher and thought of Griffin as well, who needs to play more often to get the consideration.

I just think that currently the people that pick these teams would put Dyer in that position if they decided to play that way, especially in light of the lack of alternatives.

-- Anonymous, October 12, 2000