Mountain lions

greenspun.com : LUSENET : Countryside : One Thread

Last Sunday night a mountain lion screamed in back of our house--about 50 feet from the back door. My question is this: Does anyone know how to discourage said mountain lion from coming to visit? It isn't that I mind its existence, it is just that I mind that it exists so close to me and apparently has little or no fear of us. The outside lights were on and two of my adult sons were outside at the time. We live in a heavily wooded area with an alleged creek running through it. There is about 80 acres of thicket to the east of me, and it doesn't belong to me. I have dogs---boy do I have dogs. Counting puppies, we are up to 34. The dogs did NOT bark, by the way. They are small dogs and I suppose they figured that if they were quiet, the cat might not notice them. Anyway, shooting is not an option. First you have to see it to shoot it. Besides, there are a LOT of them in this area because most of the rest of the world down here has been clear cut. The state department of wildlife will be no help. Last time I had this problem, they advised me to just shoot the thing if I could because they didn't have time to fool with it. I asked them how come when it came to wild life it was THEIR deer, but my CAT? They would get all huffy if I shot the troublesome deer without license, tags, etc. Given the circumstances, does anyone have any suggestions? Anyone know of any Cat-Be-Gone Spray or something more helpful? The horses are getting more and more nervous about the situation and trips out to look at the stars just are not the same for us!!!

-- Green (ratdogs10@yahoo.com), October 11, 2000

Answers

Ask around if there is a professional hunter or trapper in your area. Night scopes are dropping rapidly in price.

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), October 11, 2000.

if you in its territory, there not much to do,,, but if its coming there for a reason, like food,,, you may not have an option, but to shoot it. It also may be looking for a place to den up for the winter. You can try spreadinf human hair around,, the scent might keep it away. Or get bigger dogs

-- STAN (sopal@net-port.com), October 11, 2000.

I'd hate for you to have to kill it because they are getting quite scarce around here...but I also would kill one if it was trying to eat my rabbits or other livestock! Their screams are blood-currdling! The ones we have in north 'bama sound like a woman when they scream!

-- Suzy in 'Bama (slgt@yahoo.com), October 11, 2000.

Call around and find the local houndsmen and talk to them, even invite them out to train their dogs. Then get yourself some large barking dogs.

The hounds train the cats to run when they here a dog barking and your barking dog will keep it out of your space. Hopefully, there is enough wild food out there so they don't need to resort to your animals for meals.

Never let little kids play out without a good dog with them and teach the kids not to make "catfood" noises when they are out. (whining, crying, shrieking...)

I would encourage anyone to learn to live peacably with your wild neighbors. We are encroaching on their habitat and they have nowhere else to go. They are beautiful animals and deserve life, too.

-- Laura (gsend@hotmail.com), October 11, 2000.


If I had small pets (dogs, cats, etc.) I would make sure they were locked up securely at night. Anything you can do to lock up your livestock, too, would be in order. Around here, cougars show up when there is a free meal. Do you have bowls of dog food or anything like that around? Can you feed your critters indoors? Oftentimes, small pets become the victims.

If it were me, I think I would keep a shotgun handy...sounds like that's not what's going to work for you. I think I would stay on top of the Fish and Wildlife folk. Maybe if you keep bugging them, they will find someone else to help you. If they don't respond, I would consider the other suggestions and look for a hunter for hire IF the big cat sticks around.

In the meantime, protect your dogs and other creatures. Anything is at risk, even dogs, and yes, even you. They say to make yourself look bigger (raise arms slowly over head, extend jacket, whatever...important to do it SLOWLY) and back away slowly if you run into one of these beasts. Don't run or it will think you are prey. You probably know all this, but maybe someone else on here would benefit from knowing that. The very best of luck to you. I fear those cats the most of all the predators around here. Coyotes I can handle!

-- sheepish (rborgo@gte.net), October 11, 2000.



Please keep your horses locked up at night until you can discourage the big cats from coming so close. My dear friend in northern NM lost a beloved horse to a mountain lion, they jump up on their backs and bite around the neck until the horse bleeds to death, just like racoons do to dogs! Now the same friend in northern NM hunts big cats with bow and arrows and a pack of hunting dogs trained for that purpose. Two years ago SHE got one, she was very proud! The dogs look like oversize coon hounds and they use at least six, I bet that would discourage said cats around your place, and then you wouldn't have to shoot them. By the way, we also have big cats around here on our place, the game warden notified us that the spring turkey hunters had visually spotted a big female on our property, not close to the house or barns/horses, but about 30 acres out in the woods. We have five big dogs so that should help keep them away, plus we have plenty of deer,rabbit and other more easily obtainable prey out there in the woods. Annie in SE OH.

-- Annie Miller (annie@1st.net), October 11, 2000.

Thanks everyone. The dogs are safe. The horses (seven) are not and building them a place is not an option. They spend the night in front of my cousin's house. He has 15 or so large dogs. We are not encroaching on their territory. This house has been here for 50 years, my cousin's house since 1914 so we are not new to the neighborhood. My aunt who lived across the creek in back of me used to tell me that she had the biggest old black dog that would come easing along in back of her house, then cross onto my property. She said it had the longest old tail. Well, when she became unable to live alone and her son and daughter-in-law moved in, the daugher-in- law was in the kitchen one morning and looked out to the Aunt Elsie's "dog"--a huge black cat walking leisurely in back of the house. The cats have been here for years and we have peacefully co- existed, but 50 feet from my back door is encroaching on MY territory!

-- Green (ratdogs10@yahoo.com), October 12, 2000.

It would be awful to have to kill such a magnificent creature, but I agree with you that when they are that close to your home, it is a BIG problem...My Father used to tell me that mountain lions respond in a very "smart" to gunfire....he thought they actually were aware of what it was and would steer clear of any area that they associated with guns.....just in case daddy was right, perhaps you could try to shoot off a few rounds each evening up in the air and hope that THIS cat knows what it means! God bless...

-- Lesley (martchas@gateway.net), October 12, 2000.

Sheepish had good advice. We've got a lot of lions around here, and they are about the only animal I really worry about, except the grizzlies, which are far less common, but more irritable(we get all the problem grizzlies from Yellowstone dumped here for relcoation- thrilling,huh?!) Where do you live? I've heard that lions are becoming a big problem in CA, where they are not being hunted, and that they have no fear of dogs, poeople, or anything there, and make a habit of eating livestock, dogs, and cats. Probably they would hunt small children,too. We have had them stalk us, and friends here in Idaho. I don't much enjoy walking in the woods with my kids anymore, because you might not realize your're being followed until it's too late! Needless to say, carry a loaded gun with you at all times. yes, it would be a shame to kill one needlessly, but if they have lost their fear of humans, they are no longer truly wild, and they should be shot if they are stalking you or eating dogs, etc. I have heard that electric fence is one of the best deterrents for them, put up several strands, so that they can't slide under or jump over easily without getting zapped.

-- Rebekah (daniel1@itss.net), October 12, 2000.

You don't necessarily have to shoot the mtn lion -- just shoot the gun off, and probably the noise will encourage a rapid departure. It seems to do the trick for coyotes.

-- snoozy (allen@oz.net), October 12, 2000.


My advice (and it would work!): Get yourself one or two mature Great pyrenees dogs. They are perfectly able to deal with bears, mountain lions, foxes, wolfes, coyotes and anything else. Their first line of defense is barking at night, thus keeping most predators at distance. These dogs will protect anything and everything on your place. No need to shoot, kill or trap. Karin

-- karin macaulay (kmacaulay@co.brazos.tx.us), October 12, 2000.

We have had a cougar around our place lately too. There are 4 little kids in the neighborhood, so we are being very careful. I heard that if there are 4 sightings in one area that the game dept. would come out and hunt it down to kill it, but I'm going to try to verify that info. If I saw it close to my house, I'd shoot it in a heartbeat.

-- Michelle in WA (thepieplace@techline.com), October 12, 2000.

I live in East Texas, which isn't exactly deserted land. Still, we have several cats in the general area because several different ones have been spotted. I just don't like this one so close to the house and horses. We have been overrun with all types of wild things the last couple of months. Maybe the cat will just move on over somewhere else, but I suspect she has kittens with her as she makes a clicking or clucking sound similar to the way people cluck to a horse to get it to move on. That sound is supposed to be the way they communicate with their young. NOT GOOD!!! On top of everything else, there are now 3 houses going up in what has always been prime cat country on the other end of our road. I have warned the ones with little kids about the cats. My cousin saw one cross the road in the drain just below their house a couple of weeks ago. Oh, well, I guess we will make it. There has been a few calves killed over the last couple of years, but no wholesale slaughter. The Fish and Game have told me in the past, to "just shoot it" when we had trouble before. Easier said than done. That cat was more afraid of humans though and moved deeper into the woods, or at least it went somewhere other than here!!!

-- Green (ratdogs10@yahoo.com), October 13, 2000.

We had a cougar, and I was thrilled to have it. I was careful when walking in the woods, and kept the horse near the house.Cougars have a LARGE range so it moved up stream after a while.I knew when it was here as the cows & the horse all ran to the front near our house, laid down all bunched up & wouldn't leave for two days. Couldn't find any deer for abt. a month, they skedattled as well. We have dogs, but, except for the bigger breeds, they could end up cat food. They will mostly help keep them away from house, though.I never saw it, but I heard it yell-roar. Our coon hound smelled it and every hair on his back stood up, He was still young but he was scared. Officially "we don't have cougar in KY"

If you see it, a salt load in the shotgun will "learn it" without killing it. Try that. Frankly I have MUCH more problems with a "two legged coyote" I have the misfortune of living next door to(next door being half a mile away!)Any sneak thief repellant?

-- Sharon WT (wildflower@ekyol.com), October 13, 2000.


Sharon, the best 'sneak thief' repellant is a couple of the right kind of dogs!! Here in New Hampshire, for years people have been reporting a cougar sighting here and there -- just two or three sightings a year -- and for years Fish and Game has been insisting that all those people were mistaken (they were seeing large house cats, or a bobcat or something!!). Well, *finally* a few months ago there was a confirmed sighting, and now they have to admit that, yes, there are cougars in New Hampshire! Not very many, probably, but there are some. Along with LOTS of bears, moose, coyotes, etc. -- my grandfather, when we moved out here, thought we were moving to an urban area -- he didn't realize how wild parts of the East still are!!

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), October 13, 2000.


Yeah, and we don't have grizzlies in Washington State . Doesn't make for happy news in the tourist publications I would imagine....

-- sheepish (rborgo@gte.net), October 13, 2000.

We have dogs and they chase sneak thief out of the yard, but he comes right back. I won't leave the dogs outside overnight bc they would get poisoned. That's how things are done here, and elsewhere. We put up a camera, he has a video camera detector. He's faked disability and is on SSI, and has all the time in the world to prowl & harass people around here, been doing it for years.Alot of what he does is harassment to get us to leave, bc we're on his 'happy poaching & partying ground'.So, give me big cats & coyotes, any day.It's the two legged beasts you have more to fear. To quote John Muir as best as I can remember....If it came to a war between man and the bears, I believe I'd have to side with the bears.

-- sharon wt (wildflower@ekyol.com), October 15, 2000.

I side with Sharon and Johm Muir. Having bears, coyotes and mountain lions coming onto the property is far less damaging and annoying than neighborhood kids on their atv with a bb gun, harrassing my horses, their dogs barking non-stop or killing my chickens, or their crankster parents...

I've lived in both kinds of neighborhoods, give me wildlife anyday!

-- Laura (gsend@hotmail.com), October 15, 2000.


Hey, Green it's me your neighbor by about 20 miles again, My dh and Mom-IN-Law talk about hearing those cats years ago, but I thought it was a thing of the past. We haven't seen or heard any, but the guys who lease our land for hunting say the ferral hogs are getting plentiful cause they've put out sweet potatos for the deer and the hogs are well making hogs of themselves, so we were warned not to let the kids go out in the woods, what a shame! We've had a lot of clear cutting here also, a lot of the men in our area say they're not going in the woods without their guns now due the hogs, say they can cut you to pieces if you get in a herd of them. I'll keep the kids close by. We do see a lot of coyote and fox since all the timber cutting.

-- Carol Waldrop (cwaldrop@peoplescom.net), October 16, 2000.

Carol, we have wild hogs here too. They are not feral hogs. They are European wild boar brought in someplace south of us years ago by a wealthy man who thought they would be good for him and his friends to hunt. They escaped the confinement areas he had for them and adapted EXTREMELY well. My cousin has a place down on Lilly Creek. Said year before last he went down to deer hunt and there were literally 200 hogs rooting around in his hay meadow. They also come up close to the house here, and he sees hogs in his yard regularly. He lives behind me across the creek. At least they will run off if you yell at them though. The hogs are excellent eating and there is no restriction on hunting them. Find a plan for a hog trap and feed them kids!!!

-- Green (ratdogs10@yahoo.com), October 16, 2000.

Green

Do you mean put the kids in the trap to feed the Pigs? Oh my! Sometimes I get mad at kids but not THAT mad. What, are they teenagers? Then,I might understand. Just Teasing!

-- sharon wt (wildflower@ekyol.com), October 16, 2000.


My husband has a "suggeston" ?? His advice is to urinate around the area ?? I suppose you would have to drink a lot before doing this. I actually laughed at him for suggesting this but I always find out that his ideas usually work. So.....guess you can leave it up to your boys to do the job. We also have mountain lions in our area. We raise dairy goats, horses etc and so far they haven't bothered with us. I would feel safer out alone at night with my rifle also. (because when I get scared I can't "pee" fast enough) His other suggestion is, if you happen to met this lion face to face.....run like hell !!! Good Luck !!

-- Helena , (windyacs/@ptdprolog.net), October 17, 2000.

Green, I read your letter about the mountain lion/cougar and altho we have Bobcats and coyotes and even sightings of a rare mountain lion we do not have any problems here at the edge of town. Since you are sooo good with raising dogs(you know you are). why don't you get a pair of Great Pyrenees or Anatolians or Rhodesian Ridgebacks, or Kommondors,there are others but can't think of anymore breeds. They work better in pairs or trios anyway, you can keep the cats away and sell the puppies. I know I would buy one from you. I know bobcats will kill and eat small dogs or cats, so those big cats will be too dangerous to not get some protection.(esp if they have babies to feed) Good luck and take care. karen

-- Karen Mauk (dairygoatmama@hotmail.com), October 17, 2000.

Moderation questions? read the FAQ