I am fascinated by the culture and traditions of Gypsies/Roma people, and the sort of off-shoot group, Irish Travellers. I didn't know that Gwen had taken that course she mentioned in her latest diary entry or that her niece-in-law is married to a Gypsy.

So, are any of y'all of Roma descent? Do you know anyone who is? Gwen, can you tell us more about what you learned in that class?

-- Anonymous, October 02, 2000

Answers

We learned a little of the language, which I'll never remember, I think. I think "romnichel" means Roma boy... That's probably wrong. Well, the latest theory at the time was that the Roma peeps had started out as a tribe of warriors in India. They'd theoretically left India in a big caravan so they could fight in some huge war. And they ended up staying away forever, travelling and picking up the genes of the people they met along the way, all the way to Eastern Europe. At the time of the class, also, I think Dr. Hancock and like- minded people of Roma descent were still working to get Gypsies classified as an actual ethnicity among various bureaucracies. You know, for WWII reparation status and stuff. (Am I making sense? It's been a long time since I was in school.)

We talked about how they still have their own religion, and I think the religion was just called Rom or something like that -- based on the name of the people. We talked about the thing with the blankets and how their religion was a bit like Catholicism. Dr. Hancock said that Gypsies in America rarely married outside their own kind, but when they did, it was often to Mexicans because of the compatible cultures.

My niece is a quarter Mexican and a quarter Cherokee or something. She's been well assimilated into her in-laws' family, though. I hesitate to talk about them a lot because I hate to assume that their ways are representative of Gypsies in general. But I will tell y'all that it's a huge family, they have an accent which charms me, and they're sort of distinctive in our town. I mean, I don't know them well, but I always know them when I see them, because of the way they dress and do their hair, makeup, and jewelry. No, they don't wear long skirts and scarves on their heads... The women just dress a bit more splashily than most of the white women in this small town.

A while back, when I was first doing the trailer videos, I asked them for interviews because they all live in travel trailers, and they're always living nomadically as they go around practicing their family business. (Asphalt work.) They all refused. Later my niece told me it was because of some 20/20 episode a while back that portrayed Gypsies in a very unflattering light. She said her in-laws were now paranoid about being filmed and stuff.

-- Anonymous, October 02, 2000

I had read that there was theory about Roma people originating in India. It is endlessly interesting to me. I must have been Roma in another life.

Has anyone ever seen that King of the Gypsies movie with Judd Hirsch, Eric Roberts and Brooke Shields? It's pretty horrible and likely filled with all kinds of inaccuracies.

-- Anonymous, October 02, 2000

Oh, I've always been fascinated by Gypsies. For a while there was a Gypsy family living near us in the 70's, and from what I understand there is a fairly large population in the Bay Area. But this particular family caught my fancy 'cause they lived just around the corner. They had all kinds of statuary in the front yard, and of course the women did palmistry and stuff, they had a sign in the front window. The men all drove big Cadillacs, and the women & girls never wore pants; the young girls wore makeup and none of the kids went to school. They wouldn't talk to any of the other kids in the neighborhood. My mom, a Chicago transplant, warned me to stay away from them. The story is that one of the men offered to sell one of the teenage girls to my dad...I think my dad made it up. A few years later I saw "King of the Gypsies" and thought, oh my gosh what bizarre people...but now having seen better researched documentaries and articles I have a much different view of their culture. I'm intrigued by the evidence that they are descended from Indian warriors, and by the correlations between Indian and Rom language, music, traditions etc. I'm outraged at the treatment they have received at the hands of the governments in the various countries they call home, and I'm glad to see their plight getting serious attention in the UN and around the world.

I'm fascinated by the Irish Travellers, too. I tend to have a less romantic or positive view of them, though. I think they're a bunch of hoods.

-- Anonymous, October 02, 2000

gypsies fascinate me also, ever since one spat on me in London, as I walked home from the grocery store, loaded down with bags and unable to retaliate. I wouldn't have tho, because it happened right next to the gypsy camp and she wasn't alone.

I did nothing to instigate the spitting, didn't even see her until the gob wad hit me.

I truely am interested and am not making fun of what happened to me...but that's how I became so interested in them.

-- Anonymous, October 02, 2000

I never encountered gypsies until I moved here. Not long after my arrival, Ian and I were shopping in Birmingham when this woman came up to me and handed me a tiny bouquet of really pretty purple flowers. I stopped walking, but Ian kept going and kept looking over his shoulder, giving me these weird looks. The woman then asked me for money, and I honestly didn't have any, and told her so. She ripped the flowers out of my hands and started shouting at me. I caught up with Ian, who was like, 'Why the hell did you stop to talk to that gypsy? They put hexes on you if you don't give them money!' He couldn't believe I'd never seen a gypsy in my life.

I was reading about Irish travellers the other day, and found them really fascinating. Like, everyone is basically related, and the girls are usually married by the time they're 15, and the family spends as much money as they can to make the wedding as ostentatious as possible. They live in caravan parks, travelling around wherever the men can get work (paving roads and doing construction), and the most important thing to them is that the women all wear the most expensive designer outfits: Prada, Chanel, Gucci, Versace -- and the outfits are only worn once and then discarded. The girls' wedding dresses have to have a huge, toilet paper cozy-type skirt, and be embroidered with gold and pearls and anything else to make it look like a lot of money was spent on it. Also, there's some sort of scary rite of passage where a boy picks a girl and tries to kiss her, and she has to scream and put up a fight...or something. Another thing I remember is the girls saying that it would bring such shame upon their families if they got pregnant before they were married, that there is absolutely no premarital sex.

I will hunt for the Sunday Times article on this (I can't find it online), because it was so good, and had great pictures.

-- Anonymous, October 03, 2000

There's apparently a large Roma community in Canada but I have never encountered any, to my knowledge.

I saw a documentary about Irish Travellers living in the US last year. There's a large community of them living in the one of the Carolinas or Virginias. They've actually built huge homes in a sort of gated community. Sadly, the documentary was about various scams and illegal schemes that authorities believe that a particular family is responsible for.

-- Anonymous, October 03, 2000

There's a good book about Romany/Gypsy culture called Bury Me Standing, but I'm afraid I don't know who wrote it offhand. I'd like to learn more about the Irish Travelers; I'll have to see if I can find any books about them. They sound like a wild bunch, indeed.

-- Anonymous, October 04, 2000

there's also an excellent children's book by Rumer Godden called The Diddakoi. It has been one of my very favorites since I was about 9, and I bought a copy on eBay last year cos it's no longer in print with the cover art I love. It's very informational yet is fiction, just a kickass book all round. I recommend it.

-- Anonymous, October 04, 2000

When the Gypsies first appeared in Europe sometime before the middle ages, Europeans somehow got the impression the were from Egypt and that, so I've heard, is where their name came from: e-gyp-tians became gypsies.

I think all human beings are nomadic at heart. The nomadic Indians had it right. The camp gets messy? All the deadwood collected for the fires gone? All the wild veggies and fruits collected? The game spookey from being hunted? That place behind the poo-poo bush getting rather noticeable? Move on...next year, when you come back, everything is ready to be lightly used again. When the Indians first saw Europeans cutting GREEN wood and then waiting months for it to be dry enough to burn instead of just going where there was plenty of deadwood laying around to be picked up without the sweaty axe routine, they knew the whole country was fucked.

-- Anonymous, October 04, 2000

Am I seeing right? Klee, are you posting again??!! Haven't you on more than one occasion threatened, promised, uh gotten our hopes up that you weren't going to post anymore? I seem to recall this but now you are back? I don't understand... Why, why, why? Please do not use the old 'I'm taking my ball and going home' claim unless you really mean it. It's just not fair to those of us at Gwentown that take your words seriously!!

-- Anonymous, October 04, 2000

Well. That was hateful and ugly.

-- Anonymous, October 04, 2000

Sounds like someone needs to be reminded of what Thumper's mother said.

-- Anonymous, October 05, 2000

Well now, let's see if I can open my creaky memory here. I studied them in their natural habitat as it were. They speak a language called Shelta. Supposedly, they were a group of clans that got kicked around by Cromwell and have been getting kicked ever since. They refuse to assimilate and are extremely entrenched in the wandering lifestyle. I don't know much about their American counterparts, but the Irish travellers were extremely guarded and closed off, and I heard several stories (most unbelievable) about atrocities committed by the 'tinkers'.

-- Anonymous, October 05, 2000

Welcome back, klee. :) The book you mentioned sounds somewhat familiar--if you have time, fill me in backchannel, 'k?

As for the nasty static, "consider the source".

-- Anonymous, October 06, 2000

If I may, I would like to get back to the topic instead of making remarks days after an off-topic incident...

I really don't know much about Gypsies and would like to know if they live all over U.S. or in just certain areas, because I have never seen any Gypsies that I know of and I have spent time in most of the states on the east coast.

-- Anonymous, October 06, 2000

Nicole-
You're more likely to see the Travellers out on the road doing what they seem to do best... some show, 60 Minutes I think did a piece on them a few years ago. They were in deep trouble because they had been moving around the Southern states approaching old people and asking to pave their driveway's. Then they did it whether they were asked to or not and got really nasty. Threatened to kill them if they didn't pay these huge amounts of money. I seem to remember a documentary on PBS that they trot out this time of year as well. They are the only organized group of "gypsies" that I know of in the States, but then you can hold what I know on this subject in a paper cup. There are tons of resources on the Internet on Travellers and gypsies. Sorry for the long-windedness!
Shannon

-- Anonymous, October 06, 2000

Ha! 'Nasty static'!

-- Anonymous, October 06, 2000

Now I feel bad because -- *cough* -- my niece's in-laws do asphalt paving. But I'm sure that they would never...

um...

Well, I'm just gonna hush now. Like I said, I don't know them very well.

-- Anonymous, October 09, 2000

Gwen, Gwen, Gwen... We are not our family. I have to say this at least once a week, especially when I'm at Gramma's house where the photo wall of shame shows me just how stretched my gene pool is. I have a few pavers, Amway salesperson's, etc. in my background.

-- Anonymous, October 12, 2000