Brothers in Christ. What are we going to do to try to stop the constant immorality in our cities? I live in a city of 920,000 people and grieve over the immorality that is everywhere. Our city advertises on buses, and billboards, "If you have sex with those younger than 18, you will go to jail." Still it goes on and on. We live on a deadend street, and almost nightly, within 50 yards of our house there is fornication going on. I find the remnants in the morning, including the condoms. Now, I am 60 years old and know that this is not a new phenomenom. What can we do to do more that put up billboards to advertise that it is a crime? How can we convey to our youth that it is not cool to conquor young women, and exploit them? How can we make it so that they would be punished, and a holy fear would be put into them? How can we convey to our precious youth that they need to wait until marriage? I am serious!!! It is sin, it is barbarious, it is vile, it is corrupt to allow these young men and older men to conquor and exploit our young ladies. It is not being a man to prove yourself and your virility before marriage. There is no commitment, no love, no real caring, other than for self, and personal, temporary, saltisfaction. What are we going to do? I am serious. Love to you all. Bob

-- Anonymous, September 23, 2000

Answers

Hello Bob,

My I suggest there is only one way to stop fornication in the world and that is to bring the world to Christ one by one? Nothing else will do it. Laws will not do it. Scaring them will not do it. Only Christ (in them) can do it.

Nelta

-- Anonymous, September 23, 2000

I agree, Bob. Our government tells the public that sex with someone who is younger than 18 is a crime. Then our entertainment industry turns around and sells Mandy Moore (15), LeAnn Rimes (16) and Britney Spears (17, when she had her first hit) as sex symbols. The ACLU defends NAMBLA and other pedophile organizations under the umbrella of "free speech." Our country is becoming morally schizophrenic.

Nelta, I agree with you. The only way is to bring them to Christ. And the church in the latter half of the 20th century dropped the ball, bigtime.

-- Anonymous, September 24, 2000

Bob,

It must start in homes. Christian parents teaching their children the difference between right and wrong. Our churches must disciple. If I am not taught how do I know. When I first became a Christian I thought homosexuality was o.k. I mean, they weren't hurting me or anyone else were they? I had a friend, grew up in the Christian church. She thought abortion was a personal choice. How does this happen?

First I believe we do not take it upon ourselves to study God's word. Second, the church does not always teach these things. They are controversial even embarrassing. Who really wants to talk about sex in Sunday school class? As a new Christian I had many questions about sex within the marriage. Still have some. Are there any taboos? Fornicationwhat is that?? Many have such questions. But you know what?? As a new Christian...how can I bring up something like that to another Christian? In a group bring it up?? NO WAY! And if I do get up the courage to finally ask, to whom do I present such questions? The preacher? An older woman? If they even knew I had such thoughts, they would not sit next to me on Sunday mornings. It took me a solid year to ask about specific things concerning sex within marriage. Things I thought I was doing that could be sin. Things to graphic probably to mention hereyou would be shocked, I would be embarrassed, I would embarrass you. See even now, knowing these are things people want to understand, to know we are pleasing God in ALL aspects of life, (not just the things we do on Sunday morning or Wednesday night) these sort of things are difficult to talk about.

So you see...I agree with Nelta and John, we must bring people to Christ...but we must also teach morals, understanding new Christians have just come out of the world and may not know what is right and wrong concerning such things. In our teaching, give them an opportunity to discuss such things, as older Christians bring up these subjects making it easier for others to open up, ask, and learn.

-- Anonymous, September 24, 2000

External constraints may hold some people back. But they won't take care of the problem. I agree with Nelta that these people need to be introduced to Christ. I don't see the early church trying to get Rome to pass more moral laws. Of course, they didn't have the same rights, but the church had an impact on society over time by the preachign of the word and living out a holy life.

I don't know how dangerous your neighborhood is. Maybe you could stand at the deadend of the street and preach the gospel and preach against fornication on weekend nights. It may sound crazy, and it might look crazy if there were no audience.

What may be more effective might be to get to know those young people on your street and share the gospel with them and explain to them why it is wrong to fornicate.

-- Anonymous, September 24, 2000

Nelta:

You have said:

Hello Bob, My I suggest there is only one way to stop fornication in the world and that is to bring the world to Christ one by one? Nothing else will do it. Laws will not do it. Scaring them will not do it. Only Christ (in them) can do it.

Amen and Amen! Only the preaching of the blessed gospel of Christ our Lord will save men and this includes what we often refer to as teenagers. They may be young and often foolish but they are not young to suffer the consequences of sin and they are therefore not too young to have the Gospel of Christ preached to them they might be saved from their sins. WE are told in the scriptures that God designed to save the world thorough the foolishness of preaching and not through the wisdom of men. (1 Cor. 1:18). It is typical American mentality to cry our to the government to save or protect our children. The sooner we realize that no one can save or protect mankind but God through Christ our Lord the sooner we will begin to take the preaching of the gospel of Christ seriously.

Brother Bob, no matter how dangerous your neighborhood might be, preach the gospel. Plant the seed of the Kingdom every day and it will not matter what Hollywood shows on T. V. nor will it matter what laws congress makes or fails to make. Those who follow Christ faithfully will not watch sinful T. V. shows nor will they need the protection of laws made by congress for they will have the protection of he that has overcome the world.

What can be do through faithful preaching of the gospel is far more powerful than anything that anyone can accomplish through political action and activism! In fact it is wise for Christians to attend to the preaching of the gospel and avoid political activism which is helpless to save man. For the gospel is the power of God unto salvation (Romans 1:16).

Your Brother in Christ,

E. Lee Saffold

-- Anonymous, September 24, 2000

May I add my two cents to this discussion? I agree with all...only Jesus Christ is the answer to a sin-sick society. However, let's begin in the church and in Christian families. We have 3 children: ages. 21, 19 & 15. We have raised all of them (and they are practicing it) not to date until they have met the person God intends for them to marry. That way, they are not sharing physical exchanges (however innocent they may seem) with others that God intends for their spouses. Our oldest is in Bible college...she was shocked (not because we've raised her in a bubble) at the lack of standards regarding holiness amongst this "cream of the crop" of young people. Nice people, kind people....but thoroughly indoctrinated with the world's standards in their music, their values, their language, their reading material, their movies, etc. The church needs to be infiltrating the world rather than the world infiltrating the church. We pastor a church and are in contact with other brothers and sisters in Christ and we see it in the families. People wonder why their kids "suddenly" take the wrong turn and the problem is they've only raised them to go to church where oftentimes, they've been entertained and/or raised in legalism rather than taught the standards, love and ways of Christ. Children are not being taught to love the Lord their God with all their heart, soul and strength. It is not being talked about in families when they eat, when they walk along the way or when they lay down to rest. And they are not always being taught to fight back against the enemy. Too many are accepting Satan's attacks against the family, shrugging their shoulders and asking, "Well, where did we go wrong?" Anyway...as I said...my two cents worth!

-- Anonymous, September 27, 2000

Vicki,

You said the following in your post, "Nice people, kind people....but thoroughly indoctrinated with the world's standards in their music, their values, their language, their reading material, their movies, etc. The church needs to be infiltrating the world rather than the world infiltrating the church."

This is exactly what I am seeing as well... it seems that we have forgotten that Christians are to be "different", we are not to do everything the world does. All too many feel that if you believe in Jesus, go to church, and are a good person then everything is o.k.- this is not what the Bible teaches. And as a result... the church is said to be full of hipocrites and is not growing or glorifying our Lord like we should!

Thank you for your 2 cents... here's mine:)

-- Anonymous, September 27, 2000

Vickie,

I can really relate to what you are talking about. Indoensian TV isn't that great, but in terms of promoting sexual immorality, I think the American TV shows are the worst at it. They promote homosexuality, and are full of young people living in fornication. There are plenty of young people here who think the foreignors on TV are cool, too. It is unfortunate to see my own country pumping moral sewage around the world. The Mexican soaop operas here aren't great for the culture either, and they have some of their own soaps that are full of intrigue and things like that, but they seemed toned down compared to the garbage coming in from America.

I read something on the Internet the other day about a man who has devotions every night with his family. They study through a portion of the Bible. He said his kids could sit still (with fidgeting permitted) in their house church because they were used to doing it at night during the devotions.

I don't have any kids yet. I lived in the same house with my nephew for a while when he was little. It is a lot easier to put in a VCR tape or turn onthe TV and entertain a child when you are tired. The TV gets used as a babysitter, but there is such garbage in the shows.

I think it is a good idea for those in teaching ministry to tell young people and adults about the effect that TV has on them, and compare it to the Bible. Tell them how TV says if you are young and in love, it is okay to have sex. But the Bible shows us that this is a sin. The TV teaches that if you feel like you are 'in love' you can get married and things may end happily ever after, but if they don't and you fall out of love, it is supposed to be okay to find someone else. Emotions are supposed to be the basis for such decisions. But the Bible commands husbands to love their wives, and commands husbands and wives to stay together. Our emotions and thoughts must be subject to the knowledge of Christ. We are not to be blown about by emotions. TV makes it out to be normal to look on another person's body to lust after him or her, but this is sin. TV makes heroes out of sinners, and teaches the wrong way to live our lives. Violence is the answer to injustive in films.

Many people are completely unaware how their world view has been shaped by television. They aren't even aware the effect TV has on them, and they aren't aware that a lot of their thinking is unbiblical, and leads them into sin.

-- Anonymous, September 27, 2000

Marc and Link:

You guys hit the nail on the head. We are to be IN the world but not OF the world. I counsel many women....those in non-Believer marriages, divorcees, lesbians and there are basically two categories of people: those who are hungering after Jesus and willing to do whatever it takes to get closer to Him....and those who are looking for a fix to their present situation. I'm afraid that sometimes today, the church has been a part of providing a "fix" rather than taking that solid stand that Christ set and teaching it in love. It is not a popular stand. It will even evoke hatred and disgust. Just yesterday, a young woman in our congregation made the choice to turn down an excellent job that would have put her on "easy street" with her counseling profession (she truly desires to counsel Jesus' truth...not the world's). In exchange for the job, she would have had to submit herself to a known homosexual for a boss...who is known in the gay community for counseling other gay people to accept their lifestyle. In sharing this with a fellow "Christian", the "Christian" was appalled that my friend held to the line that homosexuality is a sin. Appalled is probably putting it kindly. She SAYS she believes God's Word and my friend attempted to relate that we are to love the person still, but not withhold truth that brings sin into the light of Christ....but when it came down to it, her friend DENIED God's truth. It is a continual battle sometimes to continue to point women who have made the choice to divorce because "it just wasn't working out" and have remarried....that a second divorce (if they want to follow Christ) is not even an option. Over and over we see the world's influence and teaching shape and mold the thinking and values of Christians rather than the other way around. It sometimes seems like we are little boats rocking back and forth on a huge storm-tossed sea....attempting to battle not only the world, but the world INSIDE Christians. A definite reminder of how easy it is for any of us to let down our guard and succumb to the enemy, huh?

-- Anonymous, September 28, 2000

Bob,

The others are definitely right about non-Christians... they must be led to Christ first. Otherwise, they have no moral basis upon which to build. Our kids are inundated with the theory of evolution... taught as fact... and if they believe they are animals evolved from slime... then they will act as such.

Secondly, your initial message really seemed to lay the blame on the guys..... in this day and age, the girls are as much to blame for pre- marital sexual activity as the guys... In my opinion (IMO).

Lastly, Tony Evans (The Urban Alternative -- http://www.tonyevans.org) has a sermon called 'Sanctified Sex' that will make Christian kids stop and think before sex outside of marriage. It explains the WHY behind the NO. In other words, our kids know NO about sex outside of marriage... but I'm not sure we do a good job explaining WHY God said NO. I just shared the tape with fifteen 14-17 year olds on Sunday. (The tape is available at the site listed above for $8.00)

-- Anonymous, October 02, 2000

Maybe if Christians actually read the Bible through, they would be more resistance to the things of this world. Paul gave instructions for his letters to be read in churches. There is an underlying assumption here that people who hear the letters read can understand them, at least to some degree.

Reading through scriputre and having a discussion, in addition to being an ancient church practice, has several advantages over some person picking out a few verses every week, adding illustrations, and weaving out a 30 minute message every week.

Maybe if young people heard the Law read, and heard Jesus' and Paul's teachings on fornication, they would have more fear of God.

-- Anonymous, October 02, 2000

Greetings in the Name of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. I would like to add to the comments already made. I amled by the Spirit to make an observation. First, I am surprised to see that on a Christian Board, while there is agreement that these young people must be brought to Christ one by one (I agree), no one has mentioned PRAYER. Second, there is a tendency to be frustrated because the "church" or someone else has not done anything. It is all to easy to look elsewhere for action. The church is, in fact, US. We need not wait on the Pastor or the leadership of the church to initiate action. There are many ministries that I am sure readers of this board can cite where a single person had a vision or idea and with prayer and guidance from the Lord established a new bebeficial ministry. An example of this was at my church one of the staff recognized a need for a domestic violence program in the church. After praying and resarching she hooked up with an existing Christian based project and we now have 7 trained lay people to help council and help victims, in the church and the surrounding community. I characterise this whole issue as Spritual Warfare. It must be fought this way.Ephesians 6:11-19 says it plainly and calls for us to put on the whole armor of God tha we may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. It also says "praying always with all prayers and supplication in the Spirit. Please read that whole scripture.

Brother Bob, your last sentence says,"There is no commitment, no love, no real caring, other than for self, and personal tempory satisfaction". What a beautiful frame work for prayer, praying for these issues and getting your friends and the folks that read this forum to pray on them. Prayer DOES change things.The Lord will provide solutions for us to put into work in each situation. God Bless you all. Please stay in prayer for Brother Bob and all the situations like this where ever you are. Bob (Another Brother Bob :-) )

-- Anonymous, October 27, 2000

Dear sir:

I have at present time a big problem in my life. I'm a christian wh o backslided and I've returned to serve my lord fullhartedly,amen.My problem is the following: I'd lived 9 yrs. with man who was'nt christian left every thing for him(I had already left the lord) Although I always insisted that the lord would save him some day,9yrs. went by . He went to jail for dui, for the 3x. Then in this interval I met a backslided christian. I went to live with him andhisa mother - hiding this fact from my old boyfriend still to this day today he finally excepted Jesus in the church I go to. He appears to be changing or at least trying his best to turn from the world of drugs and alcohol. What do you sugest the scriptures have to say in this matter.Meanwhile the man I'm living with has been going to church with me and back to the ways of the lord. My uncle the deacon to who I confided with (on this humongous problem I find my self in) tells me of fornication and that should go and live alone. I'm confused and do not feel the call to the altar at prensent time. I've also got out of a 20yr. old marriage(20yrs in hell-stayed on for the children) What do you advise me to do at this point? I'll be eternallty greatfull and may God bless you for this ministery, that help so many people like me my self.

-- Anonymous, November 26, 2000