It's time once again to begin one's annual hunting "preps." For me, it will be a late season hunt. My hunting threads are a bit worn, so it's time to buy some new gear. If any of you do extreme, bad weather, high altitute tromping, let me know what you think of any new gear on the market. As a traditionalist, I have favored wool (Filson) in the past, but every year we see more "high tech" stuff. Personally, Gore-Tex never impressed me much. I do like Helly Hansen for wet weather. My favorite boots are the Cabela's Outfitters with 200 gram thinsulate. Toasty.

On a related note, I have new rifle to scope. A friend tells me the high end Nikons put Leopold to shame. I'm not sure I believe this, but I'm always interested in hearing alternative views.

Well, any thoughts are appreciated.

-- Ken Decker (kcdecker@att.net), September 19, 2000

Answers

OOOOH the big bad man with all his expensive "gear" is ready to go out kill some defenseless animals. Is this your idea of fun? wow what a man!

sick sick sick

-- cin (cin@=0).cin), September 20, 2000.

I was hoping to lurk and see a good hunter discussion on this thread. I'm not a hunter and wouldn't hunt, but I'd love to have an inside peek at hunter's mentality. I have nothing against hunters, only poachers.

Cin, killing animals is not yet considered sick behavior. Thank god for that, because I still love my steak. I don't think at my age I could turn into a vegetarian/vegan.

-- (smarty@wannabe.one), September 20, 2000.

Cin,

If you are a vegan, fine. I'll let you eat your carrots in peace... please extend me the same courtesy. If not, you are a hypocrite who simply pays someone else to kill on your behalf. Personally, I think it far more ethical to eat meat taken with my own hand than to eat the products of the factory farming system. But, hey, many anti- hunters will shovel down a chicken sandwich without ever realizing how a large-scale poultry farm operates.

And do you refuse to wear leather shoes? belts? Or is the "animal rights" agenda only convenient until you have a fashion emergency?

Just curious.

-- Ken Decker (kcdecker@att.net), September 20, 2000.

A fashion emergency?

LOL

-- Debra (Thisis@it.com), September 20, 2000.

Fashion emergency = mismatched socks and raggy underwear + a car wreck requiring medical services.

Ken, Grandpa's budget limited him to wool insides and leather outsides. He used grease on his lower legs and feet under his clothes to add a layer of protection. He said it kept him warmer even if he didn't get wet. He used grease on his hands for the same reason. He used the grease that came from his kills to keep himself from smelling like a human. I don't know if he used it raw or rendered it first. This is probably more of a survivalist tip than a discussion on modern hunting gear, but it's offered in good will. (I LOVE deer meat!)

-- helen (b@s.q), September 20, 2000.

***but I'd love to have an inside peek at hunter's mentality. I have nothing against hunters, only poachers. Cin, killing animals is not yet considered sick behavior. Thank god for that, because I still love my steak. I don't think at my age I could turn into a vegetarian/vegan.***

A right cop-out, smarty. Looks like you have that same mentality. killing is killing.

Ken what I find the most disturbing about your post is your excitement and glee about getting some new gear to go out and kill. You are NOT doing it for survival. You're doing it for fun! Anyone actually getting off on killing is in my opinion, sick sick sick!

Lastnight my son and I bought a live lobster (i usually divert my eyes from the tank because it's disturbing, but always feel guilty about it, and this one was watching us through the tank; moving right when we did, moving left when we did, etc.). My conscience was talking loudly to me and so I listened. I asked the counter help to take off the claw bands and we named him lucky, drove to the harbor, said a little prayer for him, and tossed him back into the ocean from the jetty. Think we will be doing this more often. It was fun, and it felt really good. And I feel that I am teaching my children to have compassion for other of God's creatures. I really am trying not to be a hypocrite, Ken.

-- cin (cin@=0).cin), September 20, 2000.

cin,

We've had instances of people with 'good intentions' out here on the left coast who felt they were doing a noble thing by 'liberating' Maine lobsters bought at the supermarket. By buying the lobsters at the market, you are supporting the very industry you despise. The end result of the lobsters' death in a habitat that is unnnatural for them was quite likely a much more 'inhumane' than the way they'd be killed by cooking. It's also very possible that other exotic & destructive organisms could be transferred into a new habitat where there are no natural biological checks & balances { think parasites, etc}.

-- flora (***@__._), September 20, 2000.

Ken you are such a manly hunk. Make sure you have a foot warmer so your little tootsies don't get too cold. And I'd invest in a good Kevlar vest, so the other gun-toting idiots don't puncture your heart if they mistake you for a moose.

By the way, is it still customary to dump a bucket of blood on a person's head, and string the testicles around their neck, when they kill their first deer?

-- me (nuya@bizness.com), September 20, 2000.

Perhaps I didn't say what I meant the right way, you misunderstood my comment. I would probably hunt if I was in a social circle of hunters, but I'm not, I'm with yuppies on the fast track. Opportinities are non-existant.

I respect your opinion Cin, but they're not mine. I have no problem boiling a lobster or fishing (I do have the opportunity to fish.)

I would respectfully ask you and others who feel the same as you do to give the opportunity to Ken and other hunters to discuss their hunting topic on this thread. You could start another thread to discuss anti-hunting opinions to debate this issue. Ken obviously didn't start this thread to start a controversy, it would be nice if everyone had the chance of starting a thread to discuss a topic of interest without it always turning into flame wars and heated arguments.

-- (smarty@wannabe.one), September 20, 2000.

Ken,

Since you said you like the thinsulate for your boots, have you ever considered getting other thinsulate gear? I know they make bibs and jackets, as well as gloves. Just a thought.

Sheeple

ps - just don't off any sheep while you are out there :)

-- (Sheeple@Greener.Pastures), September 20, 2000.

So, Cin, are you a vegan or not? I noticed you dodged the question.

"Killing is killing?" What hogwash. Our day-to-day existence kills other living organisms... or do you avoid showering as to "kill" the bacteria on your body? Would you let termites consume your house rather than "slaughter" the poor creatures. When your dog is old and suffering badly, will you extend his pain or end it?

We all routinely destroy other living entities, some people just draw the line at the higher mammals. What is the logical basis for this distinction?

As for hunting, our species has always been omnivorous. We are built to eat plants and meat. As a species, we have hunted for thousands upon thousands of years. It is more than a "tradition," but part of our biological heritage and genetic memory.

I will not apologize for enjoying hunting. The art of hunting is far, far more than killing an animal for food. But this is usually impossible to explain to someone who sees hunters as malovent cartoon characters.

For most hunters, our sport has nothing to do with being 'macho' or 'manly.' As an aside, I know several women who are excellent hunters. The hunters I know and respect eat meat and find the hunting more honest and decent than paying a local grocer for meat produced in factory farms. They also hunt because they enjoy the mental and physical challenge and the solitude of the woods, and for countless other reasons mostly lost on a city-dwelling society that cannot imagine meat coming without shrink wrap.

Real hunters are not the idiots who swill beer while cruising the backroads with loaded rifles. Real hunters follow the laws. By the way, these laws include leaving the proof of sex on the animal... not wearing it as a 3rd century fashion accessory. Hunters have done more for conservation in this country than any other single group this century. The fees paid by hunters have helped fund habitat preservation, conservation easements and biological research.

There is no joy in killing. Anyone who has slaughtered animals can verify this. I have butchered cattle, hogs, chickens, rabbits, etc. It's a tedious business... but necessary if you want to eat beef, pork, etc. If you eat meat and don't hunt, someone else is doing the killing because you pay them.

-- Ken Decker (kcdecker@att.net), September 20, 2000.

Sheeple,

I am picking up some thinsulate gloves and a hat. And I did not draw tags for bighorn sheep... maybe next year.

-- Ken Decker (kcdecker@att.net), September 20, 2000.

Ken,

You left out the part about certain animals being a pest in areas. Here in my state, we are over-run with deer. They are causing huge amounts of damage to crops of the farmers. With the drought that we have had this year, some of the farmers doubt they will be able to farm next year because deer are taking what the dry conditions left behind.

They are thinking of changing the rules for deer in this state to up the limits for does, as the largest population is does.

And thanks for not offing me this year!

Sheeple

-- (Sheeple@Greener.Pastures), September 20, 2000.

All this talk about hunting and deer meat or any other kind of meat...reminded me of a joke...

and I won't do the one about the sheep;)

-- Peg (too@much.spam), September 20, 2000.

Peg: That was funny. Loved it.

Sheeple: here in Ohio we were having too many deer vs. vehicle accidents, so they sent hunters to our metro parks to 'off' the deers. A great uproar over it with respect to animal rights, however, in the end they did go ahead and destroy a bunch.

I love to see the dear running loose, they are beautiful, as being in the insurance industry I can tell you, deer meets vehicle is NOT...lol.

Dont mean to stomp over Ken's thread. I do love lobster though :-)

-- consumer (shh@aol.com), September 20, 2000.

Too funnie a Peg!

and the laughs were preceeded by this boner:Ken obviously didn't start this thread to start a controversy, it would be nice if everyone had the chance of starting a thread to discuss a topic of interest without it always turning into flame wars and heated arguments.

ROLFLMAO.....obviously ya obviously he didn't.

-- Doc Paulie (fannybubbles@usa.net), September 20, 2000.

Decker,

Take pictures, they last longer and you still get to hunt bud.

-- Doc Paulie (fannybubbles@usa.net), September 20, 2000.

hunt bud :-)

Now theres a thought? :-) sorry Doc, I could not resist.

-- consumer (shh@aol.com), September 20, 2000.

Ken, I'm not a hunter, but I do like to fish throughout the year. < a href = "http://www.cabelas.com">Cabela's just opened a new store up in Dundee, MI. I checked out several items: The Little Buddy Propane Heater is a nice unit for $99. It's light enough to haul a couple of miles without undue stress, but it's made for a short-range base camp (or ice fishing shanty), not for treking.

Socks keep getting better, and well as long underwear. If you haven't been in a large camping store lately, it's worth the trip. I don't like Gore-Tex, either, but there are some promising wool blends around. It might be worth checking out Cabela's online, plus their master catalogue is available for the asking right now.

-- (kb8um8@yahoo.com), September 20, 2000.

For the record, my original post asked for recommendations on winter clothing. Not terribly controversial from my perspective. As for hunting, I plan to exercise my legal right for two solid weeks this fall. If you want to take pictures (and eat vegetables), DP, please feel free. Personally, I'll forego the pictures (and any other trophies) in exchange for a good piece of elk steak.

-- Ken Decker (kcdecker@att.net), September 20, 2000.

Sumer, you need to pack up the family and head out into the boonies for come cider and donuts before gas prices rise. I had some fresh cider the other day, and this year's apple crop promises to be absolutely fantastic.

And if Ken wants to come out here and hunt deer, we'll help him find all the Metroparks. 8-)

-- (kb8um8@yahoo.com), September 20, 2000.

K: I certainly AM looking forward to the leaves. I was just talking to hubby bout going down to Amish to EAT/Feast/ie. pig out.

I love it there in fall. I dont care much for cider, but love the donuts. Hubby and I vacation 2rd week of Oct, now its 'our' turn to wave hi as we travel:-)

Ken: K and I will be happy to show you the parks.:-)

-- consumer (shh@aol.com), September 20, 2000.

Ken,

The secret is, of course, layering. In the past that meant cotton long johns with wool pants or something similar. The result was you froze your butt. I remember using that logic when I would go skiing. I always froze. Fortunately with the new fabrics and technology the idea finally does work as theorized.

Depending on how cold it is I go for silk Long Johns (or thin insulate if colder) with lined (either thin insulate or flannel) pants. If its real cold wool pants are the way to go. Years ago I brought a cheap insulated snowmobile suit from Sears. I would just zip it up over my regular clothes and go skiing. It worked great. You might want to think about getting a set of Carharts. I dont know how comfortable they would be to hunt in but it might work.

For a top I use a silk undershirt, a logger pull over, a flannel or polartech shirt. You might want to consider a down vest. Then on top go with either a lined parka or a wool coat. It kind of depends on what kind of ground and the growth on it youll be going through. It also depends if you spend most of the day on the move or waiting quietly in one spot.

-- The Engineer (spcengineer@yahoo.com), September 20, 2000.

Consumer... uh, I have no idea what parks you are talking about.

Eng, I'm a fan of layering. The weather can change radically in a matter of hours. I'm not crazy about silk, but I do like thermax and some of the newer materials. I've never had much luck with down. It's light, but any serious moisture ruins the loft. I haven't tried lined pants. I usually stay with wool unless it's bluebird weather. I don't know anything about Carhuts, but I'll check into them.

The country I hunt is usually pretty brushy. I like wool outerwear, and it has the added benefit of being quiet. I'm a big fan of vests, usually thinsulate or some other material. I also like a baclava. If I keep keep my head, neck and torso warm, I'm usually pretty cozy. Oh, and I really still like good old fashioned cotton socks. My boots usually stay dry, so the cotton is pretty nice.

-- Ken Decker (kcdecker@att.net), September 20, 2000.

Ken and Engeneer, sounds like you're going to hunt in January for Santa's reindeer, eh! pheww, all that layering of heavy stuff.

Ken, I must add my .02 cents of knowledge about the socks part. Winter or summer, the best outdoors socks are WOOL man. Keeps your feet warm and toasty in the wet cold weather, and dry from transpiration in the warmer and dry weather.

Heck, I'd go wool all the way, head to toe, in layers. Start a new trend among your fellow hunters ;)

-- (smarty@wannabe.one), September 20, 2000.

smarty,

With me being a sheeple.... (looking nervous for someone with shears)... just where do you suppose they are supposed to get all of that wool from? ;)

-- (Sheeple@Greener.Pastures), September 20, 2000.

Yes but Sheeple, shhh...don't make waves or rock the boat now. We've got him to just shear the sheeps, not off 'em!

-- (smarty@wannabe.com), September 20, 2000.