Best all around homestead dog ?

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O.K. it's me again , I really feel we need a herding dog to work a little bit of everything here sheep , goats , cows , pigs , and kids !What breed would you pick and why ? I need an all purpose dog who will also be protective .It needs to get along with the above mentioned animals and other dogs and cats .Also if you know of a good breeder let me know .

-- Patty Gamble (fodfarms@slic.com), September 19, 2000

Answers

Patty, check out the English Shepherd sites, and also do a search for the old-time farm collie sites. (I'll see what I've got bookmarked and send them to you.) I think that for a small farm, these are the best dog there is. They just about died out, as people decided they wanted 'purebred' dogs, and these were what is called a land-race, that is, the animals everybody had, of no particular breeding. But there had been selection going on for centuries for temperament and working ability. The best dog we ever had fit the description of the old-time farm shepherd to a T -- she looked exactly like the pictures of the dog named Jacob on the web-site that I just e-mailed to you. We thought she was a Border Collie cross -- and she may have been -- but the collie/shepherd breeds are closely related anyway. A mild BC might serve your family well, also (not a timid one, just not as driven as the Trial dogs).

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), September 19, 2000.

Patty, I don't know about herding animals;(persay) but I would have to say the best dog we have ever had is this collie (Noel) I don't have sheep or goats yet , but she tries to herd the chickens when we are trying to get them. She is very protective of them and the kids. I would not have believed it if I hadn't seen it for myself but I saw her nail a chicken hawk that was after one of the hens this summer.She tore that thing to shreds. Also a great snake dog.Not to mention all the rabbits she has gotten from the garden. Very friendly to people but intolerant of strange animals.Runs the neighbors pit bull back across the highway every now and then. She is what you would call an old time farm collie. Her mother was half sheltie and lassie type collie and her dad was half lassie collie and border collie. She is beautiful. But very active. And prone to mischief if she can't run. Very smart and has a conscience,you can always tell when she has done something wrong, she litterally looks guilty and doesn't come running to greet you with that collie smile when she knows she is in trouble. I have never had a dog like her before and never want another that isn't. We were thinking of letting her have a litter of pups before we have her spayed. She is three this October 26th. I haven't decided yet because I am not sure what I would do with the pups. And I know five people that have asked me for pups if we do. Unfortunately only three of them would take care of one. I figure that would leave 6-10 pups without definate good homes. Not a good thought.

-- Bonnie (josabo1@juno.com), September 19, 2000.

I would recommend a collie/german shepard cross. We have had two over the years and they are very friendly. The one I have now is very protective to the kids yet won't bite. She wouldn't attack a burglar but she would sound an alarm.

She is also a great mouser!

-- Amy Richards (tiggerwife@aol.com), September 19, 2000.


What about Australian Shepherds? I think they are great. They are well known for their herding ability. Also since they are sooooo smart they do great in agility and just about anything you train them for. I work with a rescue organization and many are there because of their energy. They really just need room and a job to do. I have found mine to be loyal and devoted. Most are very affectionate! If you are interested an aussie rescue would be able to find a puppy that you could train to herd. It would be slightly more difficult to train an adult for this purpose but wouldn't take long since this ability is innate. Oh, did I say I really like Aussies?

-- Denise (jphammock@msn.com), September 19, 2000.

Before I even got into the thread I was already thinking a Collie is tough to beat. The only problem may be keeping that long coat from matting. My mom's looks quite the mess sometimes, but she's been the perfect dog, my parents always said the Collie/German Sheperd mix is a good one too. I live in farm country where there are a lot of Border Collies & Australian Sheperds, if they are not kept busy they seem to love chasing cars. We always have to slow down when driving past the farms with these breeds. They act like tires are run away sheep.

-- Lenore (archambo@winco.net), September 19, 2000.


Patty, When we got our collie we didn't brush her much because she wouldn't sit still long enough. She was so hyper. She didn't have a real bath till she was two. She still does not like the bath but now that she is older she likes to be brushed. The only problem I have with her hair is right behind the ears.You have to be vigilant or live with it. I do on occation nut up and cut it. Just behind her ears. I am amazed at how many burrs she gets in her hair, but it does not seem to tangle her hair though.

-- Bonnie (josabo1@juno.com), September 20, 2000.

The English Shepherd Dog

http://www.englishshepherd.org/

-- ~Rogo (rogo2020@yahoo.com), September 20, 2000.


Yep, I've experienced being chased by a border collie in my car. My Aussies dont do it, but I guess they might if they didn't have anything to do. Also training goes a long way in this area. When I say something to do , I dont mean herding all time. They are very social and usually want to be in the middle of whatever is going on. If they cant be involved then they start to fill up their time negatively. Most breeds that are smart and active would do the same thing. I crate mine, leave them in the house, or put them in a fenced area in the yard if I am leaving or they cant be with me.

-- Denise (jphammock@msn.com), September 20, 2000.

I would say not one dog, but three, to have it all. First a Ridgeback like Vicki's, to eat anything that dosen't belong there!(they were bred to hunt and kill lions), Second, a livestock guardian dog, many good large breeds, to stay with the herd, and Third of course, a Border, to help with the chickens, goats and sheep around the pens, get chickens out of garden, and to play ball with and just follow you everywhere! Borders are fantastic, they won't chase cars unless you LET them, but they are not fierce hunters, not built to fight. A large Coon can kill a Border. That is why mine stay with me at night, just in case. We don't have large predators here, only one possum in 3 years and the trap got it. It depends mostly on what the dogs will be expected to DO. I have many people call whose Borders were killed chasing cars or defending the farm. Borders should never be allowed to run loose without the owner, period. General loves to lay out in the field in the middle of the goats, but if I saw a coyote comming, I would call the dog in and get my gun. My dog would not stand a chance, Vicki's dog would have a mid-day snack!

-- Cindy in Ky (solidrockranch@msn.com), September 20, 2000.

I might be a little biased, but I think Border Collies and Border crosses are the best dogs ever for everything! With any herding breed you really have to work with them and they have to learn what their job is, if they don't know their limits, they will drive you insane. I read someplace that Border Collies have the intelleigence level of a 10 year old....I don't know if they can learn to read, but this was a problem solving ability test!

Around here most of the ranchers like Borders and Blue or Red heelers for their stock. The biggest factor in the decision fro a working dog should be the working parents and spending some time with the breeder/ owner and watching how the animals are for more than an hour. If the parents are nervous and untouchable, I wouldn't get one of the pups if I had children or if children would be visiting frequently. You want a calm animal around little ones.

Just my personal opinion, I would not even consider an AKC animal with a long lineage of AKC parents. They are generally bred for looks before temperment and too inbred. Shepards get arthritis and hip displacia and collies get "rage" syndrome. I hope this doesn't upset a bunch of people, but that's what I see when I look at many purebred dogs. Good luck, Patty!

-- Doreen (liberty546@hotmail.com), September 20, 2000.



Doreen you are right on a couple of points AKC means nothing ! You have to look at the pedigree and go from there .You can have pretty smart healthy AKC dogs .I have Golden Ret. and GSD , both ofa, heart and eye clear .Allot of breeders only breed for looks .You want to not only look for champions in the breed ring but also obedience and field titles .Take a close look at parents and other family members if possible .

-- Patty Gamble (fodfarms@slic.com), September 20, 2000.

Doreen, couldn't agree more, mostly because most pedigreed dogs are couch potatoes! True working stock is another story. Just try telling a breeder of a Rhodesian Ridgeback that you are going to let them live in the woods with the goats (exactly what they were bred for) they want these wonderful dogs laying on the couch, or chasing field running courses!

After you all pick a breed that you like, please spay and neuter!! Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), September 20, 2000.


Vicki , you have ridgebacks that must be out of working lines right ? Granted most breeder are into looks and thats it .But if you look hard enough you'll find both , sometimes you have to leave the us though .

-- Patty Gamble (fodfarms@slic.com), September 20, 2000.

Patty, we have had 3 females so far (Mom in San Diego also has Ridges, her are purebreds, and all three where out of one parent pure registered and back yard city dogs with the other parent a pure of ancestroy ridge, Great Dane, Hound, Mastiff. I gave up here in Texas finding a pure pup since I would have had to lie through my teeth to obtain a pup. The dogs are just smart, and you truly have to meet a ridge to understand this, yes of course they can be ruined and made to be vicious! And believe me if you slapped a ridge with a dead chicken it would have eaten the chicken. My dogs all are and were excellent mothers, knowing exactly how to clean a kid goat without being to rough, they would never excite the older stock, though are smart enough to make big circles around the older herd queen. The neighbors very young Malimute was up on the drive yesterday, Morgan my 2 year old took off after it, caught it in a second, rolled it on its back and very loudly barked and growled at it inches from its face, she could have very easily killed this pup. She knew that this was all that was needed. My older dog Brandy who will be 14 on my sons birthday in October did not do very well in the heat this year, she is not ill, just moving very slowly, it will be a very sad day here when we need to put her down, we will be starting the hunt for another dog soon, need the pup to be 1/2 grown for next spring when the coyote's come looking for dogs to breed. Will once again go Ridge pup and a spayed female. Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), September 21, 2000.

I knew some Ridgebacks when I was in Colorado, some friends who had horses had them. They were very loving and friendly and happy dogs.

-- Cindy in Ky (solidrockranch@msn.com), September 21, 2000.


Just my 'wanna be' 2c worth, mutts work for me! As guardians, anyway! If you don't live here, or she doesn't 'know' you-best stay in your vehicle! The 'water meter guy', used to be my neighbor, even when he called her by name, she wouldn't let him out of the truck! He has dogs, and -gingerly-put his hand out the window; forward to-tail wagging! 'I remember you! You gave me bones!'

-- Kathy (catfish@bestweb.net), September 21, 2000.

I love our new Australian Shepherd, but to be honest, I don't think she's the brightest bulb on the block. Sweet and energetic, and she is purebred (we got her secondhand from the original family who got her from the breeder), but I think the breeder bred for beauty not brains. Be sure whatever dog you decide on, to choose a breeder who breeds working dogs, if working is what you need. Our other doggie, a mystery mix of lion/bear/Samoyed, is MUCH smarter, and is a great guardian. next time we need a dog, I'm going for a guardian breed.

-- snoozy (allen@oz.net), September 22, 2000.

I'm sure you have a dog by now... but I must add my two cents. I wouldn't trade my Australian Shepherd for anything. He is the smartest dog I've ever been around. He is only 7/8 Aussie but looks purebred and of the working type. His mother (the part bred) was from a dairy farm his daddy from another farm situation. I know that the breeders are very against 'back yard breeding' but there are times it works out for the best. Loved reading about the ridgebacks. I have an interest in them. It will be a long time before I am ready to add another dog -- two is my limit, but I may try a ridgeback. I will ,however, always have an Aussie.

-- Renee (tiararose@juno.com), March 12, 2001.

Hi: I have a question for you. How would determine a percentage.Of a dog with a wolf or coyote mix. Due to the fact that my dogs have a percentage, of wolf/dog and coyote/dog. I'm not able to get them thier rabies shot. who determines the avaliability for shots for our dogs?

-- granvel f wheeler (gwheel2@mataonline.net), August 04, 2001.

Granvel---what is keeping you from getting them their shots?

-- Anne (HealthyTouch101@wildmail.com), August 04, 2001.

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