Somehow, I don't think this is what Jesus had in mind when he died on the cross. The things that people do in the name of God never ceases to amaze me. Maybe it's just me...I don't know. Here's a story I just read on Yahoo. You be the judge.

Group Vows Kashmir Suicide Missions, Warns U.S.

By Raja Asghar

ISLAMABAD (Reuters) - A major guerrilla group said on Thursday it would keep up suicide missions against Indian forces in the disputed Kashmir region and warned the United States not to declare it a terrorist organization.

Lashkar-e-Taiba group chief Hafiz Mohammad Saeed told a news conference the suicide missions started last year to hit Indian military installations had been a success.

``We suffer minimum losses in fidai missions against the enemy's maximum losses as most of our fighters return alive (from operations),'' he said.

``God-willing this method will be maintained,'' said Saeed, whose group fighters stormed an army camp on Tuesday on the outskirts of Srinagar, summer capital of the Indian-ruled part of Kashmir, killing at least four soldiers and wounding five.

Lashkar said 12 Indian soldiers were killed in the attack by two militants, who Indian police said were also shot dead.

Saeed said recent statements by U.S. and Indian officials indicated the United States was planning to declare Lashkar, one of more than a dozen Muslim guerrilla groups fighting Indian rule in Kashmir, a terrorist organization.

``This will be a total injustice,'' he said and challenged the United States and India to come to any international forum to prove terrorism charges against Lashkar. ``We are freedom fighters like any other party fighting for freedom.''

He said the decade-old insurgency in the approximately 45 percent of Kashmir under Indian rule was a jihad (holy war) against ``oppression and occupation'' rather than terrorism, for which he blamed Indian forces deployed there.

Pakistan controls more than a third of the Himalayan region over which the two countries have fought two of their three wars since their independence from Britain in 1947. China holds the remainder of the territory.

Sees Indian Influence On Washington

Saeed said the United States seemed to have ``surrendered'' to what he called anti-jihad propaganda by New Delhi, which accused the Muslim militant groups of using jihad as a slogan to shield ``terrorism'' in Kashmir.

He said he feared Indian Prime Minister Atal Behari Vajpayee would use his current visit to the United States to pressure Washington to declare Lashkar a terrorist group as done with another guerrilla group three years ago.

``Such a step would mean America declaring all Muslims as terrorists that will only earn it hatred and enmity,'' he said. ''Rather than stopping jihad, any such decision will give a new spirit and fillip to our activities. We will not give any relief to India, but America will add to its enemies.''

``Our jihad in Kashmir is for peaceful purposes and we will continue it as a religious duty,'' he said.

In 1997, the United States named Harkat-ul-Ansar group, which is also fighting in Kashmir, among 30 groups identified as ``foreign terrorist organizations, making it illegal to provide funds for them and denying their members U.S. visas. The group changed its name to Harkat-ul-Mujahideen the next year.

-- jackiea (jackiea@hotmail.com), September 14, 2000

Answers

"I don't think this is what Jesus had in mind when he died on the cross."

No, it's not, but that's irrelevant to this article. These folks are not Christians. They're Moslems, & what they're doing is not at all inconsistant with Islam or its history.

The problem here is that you seem to have the idea that all religions preach peace. Islam does not, & never has.

-- just (pass@ing.through), September 14, 2000.

``God-willing this method (suicide missions) will be maintained,'' said Saeed, whose group fighters stormed an army camp on Tuesday on the outskirts of Srinagar, summer capital of the Indian-ruled part of Kashmir, killing at least four soldiers and wounding five. >>>

God willing....THAT is my problem. And that is what is relevant.

-- jackiea (jackiea@hotmail.com), September 14, 2000.

+
Dear "just one,"
Please give jackiea a little credit for knowing that the folks are Moslem. I think that her main point was not in the sentence that you cast aside rather sternly, but her next sentence -- which certainly does apply to Moslems:

"The things that people do in the name of God never cease to amaze me."

I certainly don't want to absolve believers in God of so much evil they have done throughout the ages, but I suspect that, if were to add together all the killings done to force a religion on people, the total would be small in comparison to the tens of millions of killings done by godless regimes (for excessive power and wealth) in our century alone [e.g., the Nazis, the Eastern European Communists (esp. Russia, Ukraine, East Germany), the Southeast Asian Communists (esp. China, North Korea, Vietnam, Cambodia)]. I wish that humanity could mature and outgrow this senselessness, turning to Jesus and turning their backs on that thirst for excessive power and wealth.

John

-- J. F. Gecik (jgecik@desc.dla.mil), September 14, 2000.

Hey, jackiea!
We posted almost simultaneously.
JFG

-- JFG (jgecik@desc.dla.mil), September 14, 2000.

How about that, John! Must be on the same wavelength this evening. :) Thank you for understanding what I was trying to say. I agree with what you have to say but unfortunately, I don't think that is ever going to happen. Too many have tasted power and want more. Sad as that is. It even says in the Bible that people will see the proof of God and not believe. Seems hard to believe, doesn't it? My thing is this....I titled this thread Holy Wars?? because that is what is referred to in the article. They say their jihad (holy war) is for peaceful purposes and will continue it as a religious duty. What is holy about war? How is killing others peaceful? There are some things I can see doing in the name of God....trying to educate our children, trying to show others enlightenment and the glory of God, trying to educate others about the dangers of abortion and how much it saddens God, etc. But this? I can't see how this would be pleasing to God. No matter what their religion. I can't help but think of when the disciples and followers of Jesus wanted him to lead a revolution. The timing was right and all the elements were there but he didn't do it. He chose to go pray and to perform the ultimate selfless act...die on that cross for us. I, like you John, wish others could follow his example.

-- jackiea (jackiea@hotmail.com), September 15, 2000.

jackiea: You said:

"I agree with what you have to say but unfortunately, I don't think that is ever going to happen. Too many have tasted power and want more. Sad as that is."

Christianity has gone a long way in "humanizing" humanity. Sometimes we are sad because we would like to see all people becoming Christians and following Jesus' commandment of loving each other. There are constant wars, injustices, crimes and what not and somehow we feel that we are not making any progress. But consider just a few things: At the time of Christ slavery was a common practice, even among the chosen people, women were looked at as inferior to men, death sentences were given right and left sometimes unjustly, persecution was common not only against Christians, people were subject to racial discrimination, there were people with the protection of the Roman Law (example:St. Paul) but the majority had no such privileges, etc. etc. Christians from the beginning fought against salvery, declared women to be equal to men, condemned racial discrimantion, declared human equality : "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus" Of course we have still a long, long way to go before we see all men and women love each other as Christ loved us, but there is no cause for despair. We have seen slavery disappear in many countries, we have seen women occupying more and more places before reserved to men, many countries have banned the death penalty, bigamy is dying slowly, people equality is considered a human right in most countries, etc. etc. Let's keep walking in the right direction and remember that Christ's Kingdom will come to its completion and perfection only with his Second Coming.

Enrique

-- Enrique Ortiz (eaortiz@yahoo.com), September 15, 2000.

Let us consider the beginning.

Imagine endless empty space that goes on into infinity non-existence no awareness EVIL.

If we consider the old saying life finds away. GOD came into being by his own will to be, the awareness. Born out of the non-existence the EVIL.

Imagine an awareness hovering in endless space or Darkness as HE would see it.

After a time his thoughts become collective and he begins to think. He is aware of himself and begins to wonder if there were another. After searching for countless billions of years, the loneliness consumes him into obsession with finding another. But there is no other but him. He splits into two separate entities (schizoid only for real) that are equal and opposite in nature. Light - that which creates (Life - the future). Darkness(SHE : Spirit that inhabits the Darkness- The past) - Destroys makes desolate. Each has the same goal to end the loneliness only they have diametrically opposite positions on how to go about it. Chaos vs. Order, Light vs. Darkness, Life vs. Death, Existence vs. non-existence or Good vs. Evil. GOD is the awareness of being before the Darkness. We stand between the Darkness and the Light. Our true purpose is to Be. For that is the will of GOD - to be because HE is. Ja'El they said. When GOD comes again if he comes into Darkness the Earth will be cleansed with the fire of GOD (His true form). If GOD comes into the Light he will make the Earth a new with the Tree and the River of Life. All things are possible if we believe. The power of the Holy Spirit is promised to us by Jesus Christ.

That is why no one has seen GOD because he became separate from himself. The two have to be united into their new form. They want to come and live us,their children and the Angles of Light and Darkness. We are the key to setting them Free from the loneliness forever. Revelation chap 17 Behold the Beast that was (EVIL or non-existence reined in the beginning there was no awareness) and is not (Evil- the tendency towards non-existence cannot exist in pure form) and yet is (If we lose our sense of awareness the EVIL will return and nothing will exist)

The River of Life is man's final salvation. The fruit of Tree of Life is for the Fallen Angles Consummation, Turn from Darkness back to the awareness of GOD. The Leaves are for the Healing of the Nations. The sword of Power blocks our way to it and blinds us from The one who was (The True GOD, the past) The one who is (Man the children of GOD, the present) The one who will be (Christ - the son of man, the future). We will become like the others and they will become like us. The evolution.

The way is through Awareness - GOD's will to be. Understanding is Knowing the Truth Understanding is Accepting the Truth The Truth leads to Understanding which leads to Awareness which strengthens our will to Be.

The Truth is put before us but, they do everything they can to keep us from Understanding it.

We have to show them that we are not children anymore. That we have learned to Understand the Truth. And the Truth shall set us all Free. They are counting on us and we can't let them down. But it is ultimately up to them to change - Free will.

Mystery? Who are you? Man who stands between the Darkness and the Light. What do you want? Freedom Why are you here? To bring order to chaos. Where are you going? The Future

The End of Time - The New Beginning

-- Darian Borne (shadows@vmbc.net), December 01, 2000.

Friends,

If you wish to converse with Mr. Borne, please go to the thread he started (and to which I responded). It is called, "I'm looking for intelligent opinions not blind lashings Thank you."
He posted the same message to start that thread.
Please do not respond to him here.

SN

-- Slave Nolonger (free@long.last), December 02, 2000.

The "Afghanistan News" is about the most disinformation I've ever seen in a single place. Its "news" items are just fantasy writings. Maybe Al Qaeda is deluded enough to believe the stories.

What an embarrassment to Afghanis...

Mateo

-- (MattElFeo@netscape.net), July 05, 2002.

babbitry unlimited!!

What you are calling misinfo is common knowledge in Chaman and other border areas of Pakistan, it is only in the US and pro-US papers, giving such info is termed "unpatriotic" and its banned. There is a morgue full of american soldiers in Jacobabad Airbase, this is what the Pakistani workers at the airbase have verified.

If you watch al Jazeera tv, you will know that the american casualities couldn't possibly be as low as they make them out to be.

Sunnah Deobandi Islaam Islam Kashmir Afghanistan Jihad Jihaad Chechnya Kosovo Awliya Sufiyah Sufi Soofi Sibghatullah Shah Pir Pagaro Sindh Punjab Balauchistan Balochistan Afghanistan Terror Terrorism War Militant Radical Extremist fanatic fundamentalist Sunni movement Special forces soldiers wahabi wahhaabi wahhabi Syedayn Shaheedayn Ambala Deoband Saharanpur Kandhla Thana bhawan Akora Khattak Balakot Hyderabad Karachi lyari MQM Hikayat Hikayaat peace spirit spiritual Waliullah wali saint worship veneration Sajda Ghairullah Ghayr Ghair Kufr Ilhaad Zanadaqah Wahdat ul Wajood Shahood Tassawuf Islaah Tazkiyah Nafs Shaytaan Satan Shaitan Zikr Dhikr Zakir Zaakir Dhaakir Abid Zahid Zuhd Istaghna Sabr Safhaat min Sabr ul Ulama

-- Copy (copy@greenspun.com), July 28, 2002.