Hey guys have you heard the recent controversy centering around Gwenn Shamblin and the WDW? A few weeks back she came out saying that she refuses to believe in the trinity, and that if God had intended for us to believe in such a concept, he would have put the word trinity in the Bible. There is actually an extensive article about this off of Christianity Today's web page. Thomas Nelson Publishers were going to release her new book (titled, "Out of Egypt") this month (September) but because of the controversy surrounding her views of the trinity, they dropped the book (and her last book was on the best seller list for weeks!)

This is pretty serious guys. We have a WDW in our church and we are probably going to pull the plug on the program because of this information. What do you guys think?

-- Anonymous, September 12, 2000

Answers

O.K.....I'll give.

What is a "Weigh Down Workshop?"....and who is Gwenn Shamblin??

-- Anonymous, September 12, 2000

Oh.....I get it.....a "weight loss" guru.

Well....I'll say the same thing I say about her....Weight Watchers....et. al......

"I don't need to pay someone a lot of money to tell me to stop eating!!!"

In fact, I've lost 13 lbs. in the last month and a half. Total cost.....zip, zilch, zero.....nada!!!

The plan??? Eat till your satisfied....not till your gorged.

How much could I make on marketing that plan??:)

-- Anonymous, September 13, 2000

You mean I could be making money for this??? Man....why didn't someone tell me.

Then I could afford to go to Disney World!!

-- Anonymous, September 13, 2000

In other words Gail....the ends justifies the means.

That's beautiful.

-- Anonymous, April 29, 2001

Oh...and I might add....a very good synopsis of the modern day church.

-- Anonymous, April 29, 2001

You have a Walt Disney World in your church?

-- Anonymous, September 12, 2000

I had problems with the presentation of her program in her literature and books when I first looked into it (although I will admit that I should lose weight). I personally believe that she shouldn't call her work a ministry when she charges so very much for the little material you receive [when it was first presented to me to have in the church here, I felt like I was being asked to invite in the money changers. My conscience is highly offended by having a business (one which sells products to use; ie. this book, tapes, etc.) in the church building]. So I am already prejudiced against the WDW and perhaps my opinion should not count.

But personally, and more to your subject matter, I wouldn't like it to be part of the ministry program where I am, especially if she denies the aspect of Christ Jesus being God in the flesh. If she won't recognize Jesus, the Son, as God, then why help promote her "ministry" (both with advertizing, and with sending her money to further her writings) within the body of Christ?

Sincerely, Narrow-minded Malcam

-- Anonymous, September 12, 2000

I went through her program once and started it another time. What surprised me was how she thought God led her in everything she did. For instance, once she started to eat popcorn when she knew she shouldn't and the Holy Spirit knocked it to the floor and she came to her senses.

Nelta

-- Anonymous, September 12, 2000

This is another example of the silliness that goes on in the church- world. My wife attempted to do one of these workshops for our church (she led it at their request). This woman's organization is a business, not a ministry. She is famous because of marketing, not because of substance.

I listened to one of her tapes, and was pretty appalled by what I heard. Gwen seems to be a nice person, but being a nice person does not qualify you to a) interpret Scripture (which is exactly what she does in her books and tapes) b) have a leadership position in the church. Because she is "Christian" her methods have been embraced with open arms by the American churches. But her exegisis is faulty, and she motivates through guilt. I guess her methods work, because one woman lost lots of weight, but does the end justify the means?

I really think that Thomas Nelson should be embarassed by all this. Don't Christian publishers do ANY checking on their authors? I guess no one remembers John Todd anymore.

-- Anonymous, September 12, 2000

Ok, just so you won't think I am only griping about what I wrote above, I went to the Christianity Today site, and found this, which illustrates what I am talking about (from "The Weigh & the Truth" by Lauren F. Winner):

>>To have become such an influential voice on spiritual matters, Shamblin has very little theological heft behind her teachingsand she doesn't see the need for oversight from outside pastors or theologians. Her approach to Scripture relies heavily on freestyle prooftexting. In her books and videos, she has adopted the Exodus story as an elaborate metaphor for America's bondage to dieting. ("The Israelites stayed in Egypt for 430 years," she writes in Rise Above, "and then they cried out for a Savior. America has been in a mess for decades, and we have cried out to God again and again to remove this fat and save us from this burden.")

Concerned lately with all the "false information" circulating about food, weight, and nutrition, Shamblin refers to God's warning in Deuteronomy 13 that "false prophets" will rise among his people to test them. "When church leaders confuse the sheep, the sheep don't know where to go," she says. "But God has always allowed Pharisees."

On the same theme, she likes to quote Jude 4: that certain "godless men" will secretly slip in among you and change the grace of God into license to sin. But one of her favorite Scripture verses is Matthew 6:25: "Do not worry about . .. what you will eat or drink." In that verse, says Shamblin, Jesus isn't merely teaching about anxiety and trust in God; he also means that folks should not worry about getting enough fiber. <<

I think that gives you a little idea about what is going on. I highly recommend you go to the Christianity Online page and read all the articles yourself. This stuff goes back quite a while.

-- Anonymous, September 12, 2000

To prove your point, who is John Todd? Then again, I've been out of the U.S. for 16 years. Or does he antedate that?

-- Anonymous, September 12, 2000

I thought someone might ask that (it happened a while ago). In the mid-70s John Todd was preaching all over the east coast. His basic message was this: he was a generational witch, a member of a supreme council of witches, and he had 'revelations' of a planned takeover of the United States with Charles Manson and the Hell's Angels as ringleaders. Sound far fetched? Yeah, but he was a REALLY convincing speaker...he sold thousands of tapes of his messages. He was invited into some of the largest churches in the area. He did this based on his testimony alone. His testimony was that he was the saved generational witch, and that he had 'insider' information: information on what was going on behind the scenes in politics, in rock music (where he would 'expose' the satanic origins and rituals of it), and yes, even the church (Satanists had been secretly joining evangelical churches for years, pretending to be born again so they could thwart any effort of the church for being effective).

He had many many people running scared. The problem was, he was a complete fraud. He wasnt a generational witch at all...in fact, he wasnt a witch at all. One of his ex-wives (yes, you heard that right) came out of the closet and told how he developed this fixation with the occult from listening to someone else. He was a master story teller, but his stories were not true. There were magazine articles and books written about him and the falsehood he was perpetrating.

See, no one checked into his background. He was taken at face value. Ultimately, churches were burned and they became leary of the 'independent evangelist.' But, unfortunately, the lure of a sensational testimony and a charismatic speaker, regardless of the message, still holds sway over many in Christendom. Fortunately, there are watchdog groups (like CRI and Spiritual Counterfeits Project), but I dont think it should ever have to get that far. Churches and Christian businesses must be responsible and do their homework first. Like Winkey Pratney once said, Its hard to spot the phoney sometimes. But we have to try anyway.

-- Anonymous, September 12, 2000

Here is the url for the WDW story:

http://www.christianityonline.com/ct/current/

-- Anonymous, September 12, 2000

Hmm, mid-70s. No wonder I'd never heard of him. He was before my time. ;-)

-- Anonymous, September 12, 2000

Actually, Danny, that is Gwenn's plan. That's what she teaches. And she charges approximately $100 bucks for he first twelve weeks of her program!

-- Anonymous, September 13, 2000

Just a follow-up. I was forwarded a lengthy e-mail that Gwenn Shamblin sent out to all on the Weigh-Down e-mail list concerning her views on the trinity. It is too long to post here, but if you want a copy...e-mail me privately and I'll send it to you. But, just so you know, it will make you sick.

-- Anonymous, September 13, 2000

As my wife says, "I don't have a problem with eating ... actually, I'm quite good at it!"

-- Anonymous, September 13, 2000

Michael, as far as WDW the concept is great. I went through the worshop and found not one biblical error in it. Of course I could have mistakenly missed something, but as far as the workshop goes, it is still a good program. In fact, she pointed out that we need a dependence upon the Lord rather than food, which in some places is a revealation (especially at church potluck dinners).

Please send me a copy of that letter.

-- Anonymous, September 22, 2000

I have never heard of Gwenn Shamblin before, but I would venture a guess that she is probably associated with the Word-Faith movement. That movement has very little idea of the concept of discernment and their views on the Trinity are bizarre. Witness Kenneth Copeland saying we are little gods like Christ was and Benny Hinn saying that God is actually a trinity of trinities (a nonety?).

-- Anonymous, September 22, 2000

I was reading an article (click here to read it) from Evangelical Press on Watchman Fellowship's site concerning Gwenn Shamblin. (There's also some good stuff on why Christians fall for hoaxes there.) The article was pretty distressing. Shamblin said, "People don't care about this. They don't care about the Trinity. ... What the women want is weight loss." Apparently Shamblin is going to start her own church to espouse her heretical views.

What was equally distressing was the following statement in the article: "Shamblin's views probably reflect her background in the Church of Christ, which has historically had an ambiguous view of the Trinity." I assume they are referring to Barton Stone's peculiar theology.

Now I can't speak for Churches of Christ, but personally, I have seen that among all of the Christian churchs I have ever attended in Washington, California and Arizona, with the exception of the church I grew up in, good doctrinal teaching and study is very lacking. Its almost as if it's a dirty word. Our leaders shy away from teaching sound doctrine (preferring to teach topical "fluff" instead), and our congregants shy away from learning. An attitude I have tried to fight against continually. For if the people don't know what they believe and why they believe it, they are easy prey for the cults. Or for bizarre theologies like Gwenn Shamblin's. Our people perish for lack of knowledge, as the scriptures say.

-- Anonymous, October 01, 2000

I have read over many of the responses sent to you in regard to WDW. My heart is very broken over the situation. I was a WDW paricipant. I lost 35 lbs. and my relationship with the Lord grew tremendously. There is no way that I can put into words what the 12 week program did for me spiritually, the weight loss was truly a sideline. I cannot point my finger at Gwen and say that she was the one who made my relationship grow~but God certainly used the program to draw me ever closer to Him. I will never be the same. I thought I was a good Christain and had a good relationship with the Father, I found out just how far I had missed the mark and continue to miss it each and every day. God used this program to become so real to me and truly became my best friend. Through this program, God has brought the Old Testament scriptures so alive and has made them so real to me. God radically changed me, inside and out. I can only testify to the good fruit that God has allowed me to see out of the WDW.

I humbly ask all of those who have responded to your question to please PRAY. Pray for God to help us all discern the truth. Me, Gwen, all of us! Let us diligently pray for God to be magnified and glorified by our words and deeds!

I will be praying for you as you make the decision of whether to continue with the program or not. God's Blessings to you! Lana

-- Anonymous, October 22, 2000

I also have been through the Weighdown program. I agree with Lana. Weighdown is not a weight program, it is a heart issue. The side benefit is that you can lose weight. My life was totally changed three years ago. For the first time ever I found out what being in love with God is all about. If you ever been to see Gwen you would know that this comes from her heart. The money I spent on weighdown was certainly worth it. If you went through the program you would also know that after the second time through it doesn't cost anything. I do not worship Gwen Shamblin, I worship God. I thank God for the wisdom He gave her. What this program is all about is to stop worshipping idols such as money,food,sex,and etc. and worship God.(Exodus 20 4-5).

-- Anonymous, October 24, 2000

I also participated in the Weight Down program 4 times and found a relationship with God that I had no idea could exist. I have seen too many changes in too many lives to not believe the program, at heart, is an absolute God send. Just as God's plan for His church is perfect, it only becomes imperfect when the factor of Man is added. I would say that this situation is the same. Gwen has said that God has granted her this wisdom to share with others. God granted wisdom to Solomon as well but in all his wisdom, his wives eventually turned him from God.

I attend a church of Christ and have never found that the teaching on the trinity to be "ambiguous" as the Christianity Today website states. It also states that Gwen Shamblin's background is in the church of Christ. However, from reading her response to the accusations recently stated against her, I do not believe she has ANY grasp or understanding of what the church of Christ teaches or believes.

That said, I am very sad about what I have learned about Gwen. I will pray that we will all seek the will of God rather than man.

Amy Watson

-- Anonymous, October 24, 2000

Before you throw so many "stones" why don't you search the scriptures for yourself and ask yourself how many souls have you lead to the Lord?? You are all simply not being fair to Gwen and her ministry. Read her letter on the url: www.wdworkshop.com. She is "not" blaspheming Jesus! Jesus is the Son of God, Father God is He who sits on the throne, Jesus sits on His right hand side and He sent His Holy Spirit on the day of pentecost to bring us revelation and comfort in place of Jesus' physical presence on the earth. She is "not" saying that Jesus is not God; please fathom if you can that they are still separate beings but that along with the Holy Spirit are the three that bear witness in heaven and that the three are one. Look at it this way: I am flesh and blood, i am also spirit, I also have a soul. My flesh is not my spirit nor is my soul my spirit; yet they are one. They make me the person that I am. Please read the scriptures before you throw any more stones.

-- Anonymous, October 24, 2000

I am a WDW participant. I have been through the program several times and have never found anything to contradict the word of God. Gwen is encouraging us to go to the scripture and seek God. Her view on the trinity is available at wdworkshop.com. Please read it thoroughly before making any more accusations. I don't see any contraindication about what many Christians believe. Gwen just choses to not call it the trinity..but otherwise teaches what many churches teach..that God is the Father, Jesus is God's Son and the Holy Spirit is the Spirit who lives within us.

WDW teaches us to give up our idols..whether smoking, food or pride to let Jesus be our Lord and Master of our lives. Hello!! that is biblical!!

In Christ, Kiya

-- Anonymous, October 30, 2000

I think it's sad that one person can misinterpret the Scriptures and use it to defame an individual. This website is generating strife and contention among believers. I have lost 50 pounds so far and counting. I am a born-again spirit-filled Christian with the ability to discern truth from a lie. I believe Gwen Shamblin is a humble person who experienced the grace of God in her life in the area of weight loss, and is sharing that grace with millions. If you want to know if a person is teaching the truth, check their fruit.

-- Anonymous, November 01, 2000

All I can say is I have been using the WDW workshop for one month and i feel closer to God than I ever have in my life. Yes, i have lost weight but the peace I feel is the best. Gwen urges us to go to our bible and read the scriptures. She has never said anything that I feel goes against the bible or Jesus's teachings. I work in the field of addiction and I feel this is the only program that is truly sent from Jesus. Are you people who are against Gwen really jealous of her and her ability to communicate God's word through her ministry. I will pray that God keeps using Gwen and WDW members to be a beacon of light to all of us lost people.

-- Anonymous, November 01, 2000

Its a shame that people cannot distinguish an emotional response from a response reasoned from the scriptures. You say, "If you want to know if a person is teaching the truth, check their fruit." The Mormons have a similar weight loss program (can't recall the name of it offhand) which has similarly helped hundreds of Mormon women lose weight. Shall we then conclude that their theology is correct, because their "fruit" seems to be good? "By their fruit ye shall know them" is perhaps one of the most misused verses in all the Bible, and this is a case in point.

-- Anonymous, November 02, 2000

Thank you for that reminder John!

-- Anonymous, November 02, 2000

My reply to this is that it is a matter of where your heart is. I am currently in the WDWS and have enjoyed the fact that I am really figuring out what it means to please God, not only with food issue but for so many other areas of my life. As for the Sept issue of e- mail from Gwen, I had my pastor of discipleship check it over. Obviously, Gwen seems to be on a different walk of spirituality, not one that many would agree with. But that dose'nt make her wrong in believing in something that dosen't feel comfortable with us. I personally was dissapointed when I read that e-mail and thought that I would not want to continue the program because of what I read, and I did not want to support her beliefs. But after a lot of prayer, i realized that when she made this program up a few years ago, she did AT ONE TIME believe in the Trinity. So I feel that in that repect, she's not polutting anyone with her doctrines and beliefs as far as the program goes, So I decided to continue on my walk with the Lord to please Him.

-- Anonymous, November 09, 2000

This last post from I presume "Sylvia" is absolutely absurd. Sylvia said, "Obviously, Gwen seems to be on a different walk of spirituality, not one that many would agree with. But that dose'nt make her wrong in believing in something that dosen't feel comfortable with us."

You know what I am so sick of Oprah Winfrey spirituality in the Lord's church. Shedding pounds is more important now than doctrine. Sylvia, you said She isn't wrong for "believing in something that doesn't feel comfortable with us." I am not exactly comfortable with pedophilia either but just because I'm not "comfortable" with it has NO bearing on it being right or wrong. Come on! Turn off Oprah and open up Scripture.

Not to sound sexist here, but some of you women that have responded to this sound completely silly. Listen, Jesus is God (John 1:1, Philippians 2:5-11, John 20:28) and to say differently is blasphemy. It really is that simple. Gwenn is a good person, but she has perverted the Gospel message.

How is it that you think false doctrine gets into the church? It doesn't come in like some loud, flambouyant showboat. It sneeks in subtly, through personalities that are charismatic and attractive and even helpful. Gwenn is a heretic. That is a fact no matter how many pounds you've lost or tears you've shed.

-- Anonymous, November 09, 2000

I am a teacher at a primary school, and I am the son of an ordained minister. I have grown up in church, been to all the meetings, seen all the frauds, and I have also seen good programs that motivate us to commit ourselves to the Lord. For five weeks I have been on the "Way Down Workshop" losing a total of 11 pounds so far. My mother used to work for Nutri-System and is now a "Way Down" represenative. Reading all the negative letters on this page does not suprise me. It is normal for us to question ministries and ministers, and even scriptural. However, we are not to judge and accuse. The tapes and book that come with the program have been nothing but inspirational. She uses scripture with respect and allows the Holy Spirit to convict. Repentance is not a dirty a word, although sometimes we act like it is. That is all the program asks of us is to repent of our love of food, our worship of food, and give our hearts to God. If that is unscriptural than Christ Himself deceived us when He said to Nicodimus, "You must be born again". We have all sinned, and that sin keeps us bound from doing the will of the Father. I wish I had the time to go on, but I must go. Look at the fruit, not just those who have lost weight, but those who have turned the hearts closer to the Father.

-- Anonymous, November 15, 2000

Mr. Parker,

You wrote, "Look at the fruit ... [of] those who have turned the hearts closer to the Father." Which Father? Gwenn Shamblin's "Father"? The Mormon's "Father"? "She uses scripture with respect and allows the Holy Spirit to convict." Again, which Holy Spirit? Since it would seem the Father, Son and Spirit of Scripture is not the same as the one Gwenn Schamblin would point people to. So what are we to say? That it doesn't matter what the personal beliefs of the founder of a program are, as long as the results are good? That the end justifies the means? Because that is what you are saying. You are in effect saying "Don't judge the person's theology as long as the end result is positive." But we ARE called to judge when it comes to false doctrine. That was a Scriptural commandment. We are simply doing as Scripture commands us. And that is the big problem with Christianity today. We are too quick to gloss over serious doctrinal error and even outright blasphemy and ignore clear Biblical mandates in our rush to "love" and accept everybody, in our human (not Biblical) desire not to say anything "negative".

-- Anonymous, November 16, 2000

John and Michael, you "seem" to have very valid points to make here. But most of it involves taking a sentence or two of what Gwen says (or is presumed to have said), immediately going into her heart and presuming to know it fully, and then making a variety of assumptions and interpretations on her character, intentions, and source of inspiration with scripture attached to them to add validity. I've had my fill of heresy hunters to last a lifetime and what are doing seems to be no different.

Standing support for the WDW program and Gwen is not soley based upon "good fruit" although that is very evident. God the Holy Spirit continues to direct people to this program for deliverance from bondage, including the bondage of the spirit of religion who's operation can look very correct on the outside but ultimately lead to strife, confusion, and destruction of many good things. The devil may deceive for a time but ultimately he's going to have to turn the corner with people and pull them down. That does not seem to be happening with Gwen or WDW after some 6 years or more of existence. If people's lives are being brought to a closer, deeper relationship with the Lord (yes, the right One) then your arguments of false doctrine are just that - sultry, staining arguments.

It's easy to come out and throw around a bunch of accusations about someone or something you know little to nothing about, have the limelight of attention of a few for a while, and then go off to pass judgment on another work which does not meet your personal doctrine or standards (to which you conveniently attach scripture). But consider YOUR fruit. Is it really benefitting the body of Christ by what you are doing and saying. I think not. And if you think you can pass yourself off as the Holy Spirit for the rest of us, then need to go back to the Word and read it with the interpretation of the Holy Spirit , not the spirit of religion.

Before you go, though, just for laughs, meet with Gwen face to face and discuss your concerns with her. After all, that's the first step in returning a wayward child of God back into right fellowship rather than smear slanderous remarks all over the internet without much thought or discernment. Or does this scripture not fit into your doctrine...

-- Anonymous, November 21, 2000

Martin, you have said we should meet with Gwenn face to face and discuss our concerns with her. Well obviously this would be impossible for most of us. But many people in the Christian community have confronted Gwenn with regards to her teachings, and she is completely unrepentant, so much so that the publisher of her book has removed her, and she has apparently decided to start her own church (nee cult) to continue her heretical teachings.

-- Anonymous, November 22, 2000

I went on to the internet this morning to see if there was any new information on Gwen Shamblin. I attended WDWS for a year. I was not aware that there was such a controversy until recently. I want to say that I believe that the Lord Jesus Christ led me to go to the classes. I was drawn into a deeper relationship with Him because I was encouraged in the workbook to read the Scriptures, and to seek the Lord's guidance on a daily basis. I am not an ignorant Christian. I Do know that the Lord our God is One God=the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. I have been praying for Gwen Shamblin. God used her workbook to get my attention. I am not condoning what Gwen believes on her website. From her workbook information, I was encouraged to read the Word and her view on the trinity was not drawn to my attention. I never felt that she has used her workshop to promote herself over the Lord, but I was certainly drawn to evaluate whether or not I was allowing the Lord to have first place in my life. I agree with much that has been written on the webpage, that we have to be very careful and know the Scriptures that we might be able to defend our faith. I have noted that many of the people that have commented about WDWS have been men. I appreciate that a man sees things objectively. I feel we women see them more from an emotional point of view and have to be more careful in taking things at face value. I appreciate that the Lord made us as He has. We need each other to see things clearly. I do not want to be one of those "silly" women who are idle and led away by false teachings. But I also do not want to forget that God is able to save to the uttermost and that I have an obligation to pray for Gwen Shamblin. Why?- because she is a person for whom Christ died and if He believes she is worth His death on the cross, then who am I to forget her need to know Him as He truly is? I'm even supposed to pray for Al Gore and I will be honest with you all, I find that hard. But Christ died for him too! We are to count it all joy when we suffer for His sake. Please do not forget with me, that our God is an awesome God and that He is most certainly in control! Uplift Him in your thoughts and comments and put Him first as you are evaluating and searching your hearts, so that you are in His control today and you KNOW it. Then the world around you will know beyond a shadow of a doubt, that you belong to the Lord Jesus Christ and are His child. Isn't that what this is all about?

-- Anonymous, December 12, 2000

A very refreshing and intelligent response! Although I don't necessarily agree with everything, most is right on. And its also refreshing to find a woman who is not so seeped in our cultural feminism that she cannot admit that there are differences between the sexes, that men act more on reason and women more on emotion (and how we often need the other perspective!) and that without balance she could become one of the "silly" women Paul talked about. Alas, there are far too many silly women in the church these days and far too few who are willing to listen to the masculine point of view (due largely to the prevailing feminist hostility that has invaded our culture), far too few who think as well as use their heart, as Sherri does here. But that's one man's opinion. ;-)

-- Anonymous, December 12, 2000

I can't seem to get to the interview where Gwen says people don't care about this using the link in John's response. Can you give me the exact address, please?

-- Anonymous, December 13, 2000

That was from an article from the end of September, and that site has since been updated. I have no idea where or if the article is archived somewhere.

-- Anonymous, December 13, 2000

Thank you for your help. I have seen the Stand to Reason/Solid Ground article, 3 articles from Christianity Today, a short article by a Don Matzat, a short article by Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry, an article on the CBN news site and a small article at www.apologeticsresctr.org which offers a "revealing information packet" if you request it from their office (which I will do as soon as I figure out how). I have also found few smaller arguments by individuals regarding the program's nutritional merits, which I feel are irrelevant to the Holy Trinity issue, and an article dated Feb. 1999 (before the Holy Trinity issue arose) titled "Gwen Shamblin's Weigh Down Program Weighs Up With Doctrinal Error" which attacks her for such things as celebrating Christmas (because the Bible doesn't specifically tell us to do so) so I take that article's arguments with a grain of salt. I have also read her statements on the Weigh Down Workshop's Official Website, but the original e-mail to subscribers dated Aug. 10 has been removed. Is there anything I have missed that I should read before making a final determination?

-- Anonymous, December 13, 2000

I have been a participant of the WDW and have seen firsthand the fruits of the program. I won't go into any detail about my own personal victories, but I will tell you that Gwen is reaching out to thousands of people who are literally strangled by the whole dieting/exercising industry. She has told us over and over to search the scriptures OURSELVES and ask God in His infinite wisdom to show us what it is HE wants us to see. I, along with many of my friends, have grown into a deeper relationship with the Lord that I thought was not possible. (And that relationship grows with each passing day) Do I see Gwen as a "cult leader" as you refer to over and over? She never once asked us to "follow her." She tells us to get on our knees (literally) and seek God!! She tells us to read the word of God over and over and over. God is using her in a mighty way, and I am appalled that people like yourselves are finding ways to take all that God has guided her to do and throw it away! She is helping people find their way back to the Lord Jesus Christ! Please tell me how you can find that "wrong?" As for her views on the Trinity, please tell me who God was talking about in Genesis 1:26 when He said "Let US make man in OUR image, in OUR likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air,...? And let me ask you this, when Jesus was on the cross and he asked "My God! My God! Why have you forsaken me,...was He talking to himself??? And when we get to heaven, we are told that Jesus will be sitting at the right hand of God. So when we get to heaven, which one will we see??? I could go on and on. But the issue here is NOT the trinity! We, as Christians, believe what God shows us in His holy word. Gwen is not out to challenge anyone on their beliefs. She is out to win souls to Christ! As for the whole Trinity issue, she was defending what she said, which is what you are doing right here on this website, and what I do when someone questions what I believe in. That has NOTHING to do with her program! As for the whole issue of "You will know them by their fruits," look at hers! People are claiming by the thousands, not that they have "found Gwen." The are claiming victory in Christ Jesus! The have found HIM!! She is a spirit filled woman who is letting God work through her! Could you please, please, tell me what your issue is about that? I pray that God shows you true truth, not what YOU want to see, and please, if you haven't already, why don't you go through the whole WeighDown program and see what it is REALLY like. God Bless,

-- Anonymous, December 27, 2000

Take the class and then comment. If you have not taken the class you are just a noisy gong (there are so many these days). It does not matter what your credentials are or who you work for, you are not getting your information first hand unless you take the class.

-- Anonymous, December 30, 2000

Nancy,

Isn't that about the same thing as saying, "you can't speak out against a sin unless you have personally participated in it"? Do I have to have a homosexual experience in order to speak of it disgusts God. Do I have to have an abortion to speak against it? Do I have to go get drunk tonight to speak against alcoholism?

Obviously, the answer to the above is "NO". All I have to do is research the Scriptures on each topic to arrive at God's intended solution. The same applies to Shamblin's program or any other program for that matter. For a Christian, the test of such things is not "does it work" (weight loss) - the test is "does it accurately reflect & practice God's Word".

A stance against the triune Godhead definitely is opposed to the teachings of Scripture, therefore it can not acceptable to a Christian. Weight loss is not the ultimate goal in life, Salvation is; therefore there is a GREAT risk in following anything or ANYONE who stands against anything in the Bible.

-- Anonymous, December 31, 2000

And I have to take offense at one statement you made too, Nancy. It DOES matter what a person's background and credentials are. Would you trust a surgeon who never went to medical school? Would you trust your car to a mechanic who knew nothing about automobiles? Of course not. Then why would you suggest anyone trusting their eternal soul to someone who was not qualified in religious matters?

I am starting to get the idea that the responders who say this type of thing (not just you, Nancy - this comment has come up several times on this forum as I recall) come from a particular charismatic type background. Not trying to throw stones here, but there seems to be a "new" doctrine in America (its actually old, but has gained lots of acceptance). This doctrine is "Study and knowledge are not important. God will instantly 'inspire' me to know everything about everything. What God reveals to me individually is equal to and above what God has revealed in His written word. In fact, it is new revelation."

That doctrine is totally false. NOTHING is equal to or above written scripture. Because this false doctrine has been embraced almost across the board in American churches, all sorts of other false ideas are also accepted. It is really important that all remember that all doctrine and experience is judged by the Bible, not the other way around.

-- Anonymous, January 01, 2001

In response to Tami Miller's answer:

Tami, next time you visit this page, scroll up and read the Stand to Reason/Solid Ground article contributed by John Wilson (I think) which includes the following references to scriptures that refer to Christ as "God". John 20:28, Romans 9:5, Titus 2:13, Hebrews 1:8, 2 Peter 1:1, and 1 John 5:20.

Further, read Exodus 3:14 followed by John 8:28. Then read John 5:7, John 10:30 and Isaiah 44:6. Finally, remember this one from prophecy..."For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; and the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, EVERLASTING FATHER, Prince of Peace." Isaiah 9:6. I pray God will open your eyes with respect to the Holy Trinity.

-- Anonymous, January 01, 2001

I read Gwen Shamblin’s The Weigh Down Diet and have participated in two sessions of The Weigh Down Workshop at my church. I must say that I have a closer, loving relationship with God and get far more out of reading scripture than I did before. I have begun to transfer my dependence on food for comfort to dependence on God and His holy Word. As a result, I’ve seen 35 pounds disappear from my body, without following any sort of dietary guidelines other than eating only when I am hungry and trying to stop eating when I am full. I find that I want to eat all sorts of foods from the “righteous” broccoli to the “unrighteous” cake with frosting, but always within the boundaries of hunger and fullness.

A wise (but certainly not perfect) person once told me to always read the entire chapter containing any verse someone is using to persuade you to a certain teaching. When in doubt, I always follow this advice, and in so doing was able to refute teachings of Mormon missionaries who were trying to win us over. I have also applied this way of reading to the passages used in The Weigh Down Workshop. I agree that people who have not participated in the workshop cannot accurately refute the wisdom of the “dietary” advice and almost every time, they get the message wrong. They say that Gwen takes passages that have to do with heart issues out of the context of the chapter and misinterprets them as dietary advice. Having been through the program, I understand that she is advising one to apply the message about the heart issue to your own greed (which is idolatry) for food, which is absolutely a heart issue.

I personally suffered through my first two pregnancies with Gestational Diabetes, following the restrictive diabetic diet after diagnosis and giving myself insulin shots, etc. I didn’t understand that, although I was eating the supposedly “righteous” foods of the dietary world before the diagnosis, I was simply eating too much food for my body to process properly. By the third pregnancy, I had lost 20 pounds after reading The Weigh Down Diet book. My doctor sent me to a nutritionist to get the diabetic diet again because of my history with the first two pregnancies. I looked at the diet, but had the overwhelming feeling that I would be fine if I continued to eat the way I had learned from the book. I gained only 20 pounds during the pregnancy (as opposed to 60 and 40 respectively with the first two), never developed Gestational Diabetes and lost all of the pregnancy weight by the fourth week after my daughter’s birth. I never once followed the diabetic diet, but ate normal food between hunger and fullness, which sometimes included sweets.

However, since our Weigh Down Workshop group found out about Gwen’s statement regarding the Holy Trinity, our leader and I have been researching the issue extensively in an effort to decide whether or not to continue the program at our church. We do not agree with Gwen’s teaching on the issue and want to make that clear to our participants if we continue. We do feel the program is a good one that does, if done properly, bring people to a closer relationship with God and understanding of his Word. We feel that Gwen has made many mistakes recently. One of the most obvious is to say that because the word “Trinity” isn’t found in the Bible means that it doesn’t exist. In one of the video tapes in the workshop, Gwen herself says that the word “stress” isn’t found in the Bible, but surely God’s people felt it in their captivity. We know that she makes no mention of her anti-Trinitarian beliefs in the videotapes of the program or either of her first two books. We suspect that no such teaching was part of the third book, cancelled by Thomas Nelson Publishing, because, when it was cancelled, the book was less than a month from being shipped to bookstores. Surely it had been edited/reviewed for content by then. It appears it was dropped due to the controversy surrounding Gwen rather than the content of the book. If we decide, upon completion of our research, to continue the program at our church, we will unfortunately have to discontinue it if the day comes when the videos are re-done to include that teaching.

I think the mistake some participants are making, because they have reaped such great rewards both spiritually and physically as a result of participation, is to automatically jump to Gwen’s defense without doing their homework. They may unfortunately be listening to her MISTAKES and beginning to think that maybe she’s right about EVERYTHING. Of course, she is human and absolutely flawed. The best article we have found on the issue is the one copied onto this page by Stand To Reason/Solid Ground (with the exception of the dietary analysis, which falls into the category I described above). The article states that the issues she is so concerned with are already a part of the Holy Trinity Doctrine and she apparently doesn’t understand it correctly. She says in her statement on the Weigh Down Workshop website that there are only a few passages in the Bible that could possibly have led to the Trinitarian belief, but there are actually many. (Some are listed in the article above, and others are in my last response on this page.) There are enough that I personally have not questioned the teaching since I was asked to do so by the Mormon missionaries. I concluded that I felt they were wrong and were taking passages out of context to support their position. (Despite Gwen’s denial, her teachings regarding the nature of the Godhead are very similar to that of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.) I felt immediately that Gwen had made an unfortunate mistake when I heard about her statement.

We had a few people in our last session say they are glad they did the program with us, but don’t want to repeat the program because they don’t want to support Gwen financially any more. We understand and respect that position and wish them continued success in their journey with Christ. However, a new participant in our program last time was not a Christian and did not own a Bible. She came with a friend because she saw how the program had been working for some of her friends (outward manifestations of heart changes). Our leader gave her a Bible, which she was taught to read upon every temptation (and let me tell you, that can be many times a day!). We discussed with the class the issue of the Holy Trinity so no one would become confused by Gwen’s statement. This lady began a relationship with our heavenly father and lost 20 pounds in 12 weeks as a result of participation. Her salvation is far more important to us than worry over how much money Gwen may have made in the process. We know that Gwen will be dealt with by God, and although we feel sick for her and pray for her continually, we feel that her punishment (or preferably repentance, whatever the case may be) is for God to mete out.

I’ve seen arguments posted here asking if the ends justify the means with the example of a similar weight loss program that has helped many Mormon women lose weight. The requirements of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints are acceptance of the many false doctrines of Joseph Smith and his successors as truth. No such requirements are made for successful participation in the Weigh Down Workshop. The only requirement is that you lay down your greed for food in obedience to God, through his Son, Jesus Christ. Obedience to which God and Christ? The one referred to in the Holy Bible. I know exactly what I am doing, and so does my heavenly Father. By the way, a Malcam Moberly has criticized the program for charging the program fees. I don’t understand that argument, as I have participated in other studies that required payment. I have looked into several at Moody Bible Institute that are very expensive. Just for information, the second time through the Weigh Down Workshop is half-price and after the second time through, no further payment is ever required to participate.

In conclusion, (finally! Sorry I took so long!) if you have participated in the Weigh Down Workshop and have grown spiritually while shrinking physically, Hallelujah! Keep it up, pray and do your homework to decide for yourself whether it’s appropriate to continue in or out of the workshop. Otherwise, I appreciate other points of view, but please understand that the program itself is not evil, does not contain anti-Trinitarian teachings (those statements are found only on the website), and doesn’t invariably produce cult followers!

-- Anonymous, January 02, 2001

Mark and Dr. Jon, Where's the love??? I read human pride into your responses. Head knowledge vs heart knowledge. If you have not taken the Weigh Down Workshop or at least read one of her books, you are speaking out of ignorance. I agree with Tess about the Weigh Down materials and results. It works - weight loss plus a loss of a lot of other things that keep you from focusing on God or keeping Him #1 in your life. It is all about obedience. (not the Trinity)

When you stand before God will he reward you for bringing down the Weigh down Workshop??... or will He "chastise" you for not using your "talents?" wisely. What are your "talents" or spiritual gifts? These gifts are not received at a University or Divinity school.

What are Billy Graham's credentials?? Is all his fruit not real??? He has no Ph.D., but he does have spiritual gifts which he uses.

Please pray for Gwen even if you do not have the gift of intercession. I'm sure she is praying for you.

Nancy

If I did not vote for George W. Bush does that mean I am not a Christian???

-- Anonymous, January 02, 2001

I am considering with a few friends going through the WDW, after reading everyones opinion I will definitely pray whether I should still consider it. Remember though the scriptures say that blaspheming Jesus would be forgiven, but not blaspheming the Holy Spirit, Matthew 12:32. Also in Matthew 12:36,37 " But I say to you that every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgement. For by your words you will be justified,and by your words you will be condemned. Our words of "prayer" should be spoken to the Father on behalf of Gwen, Al Gore, and our new president elect, George Bush.. It is usually the people that like to point fingers at everyone elses sin that have something in their own life that needs to be delt with, but it feels better to ignore our sin and point to someone elses.

-- Anonymous, January 05, 2001

This will be short and to the point. Gwen Shamblin doesn't see the aspect of 3 distinct persons of the God Head. The scriptures calls this a mistery and indeed it is. The word Trinity is a term used wrongly or rightly to refer to that great and wonderful Threesome know as "God the Father". "God the Son" and "God the Holy Spirit" I am told by scripture that this is who God is. ENOUGH! This is just one of the aspects of what faith really is. God said it, I believe it and this should be the end of it. The fact that Gwen doesn't grasp this truth should not be a point of contention. She comes very close to it and if we all get down on our knees and ask that she be enlightened we may realize that she is not so far off base. She just doesn't see that there 3 separate distinct persons in the God Head.

-- Anonymous, January 05, 2001

I hate to say this, and I hate to say anything offensive after my earlier posts; I am NOT a memer of this forum, and hope never to be, but I just want to share this. Who really cares about this? All you people seem to be doing is obssessing over some infantile need to be right about everything. It's called Puritinism and it's long dead. He has a right to say what he wants, becuase religion is a personal matter. Grow up, everyone. Please.

"This planet is going to Hell because of hasty judgement" Kaophyre Tamadashi Serai

-- Anonymous, January 11, 2001

Nancy -

My wife was a Weigh Down leader in our church, and I have read the materials (both from the classes, and her second book) AND heard the tapes AND saw part of one of the videos. I have first hand knowledge of Weigh Down.

Correction does not equal lack of love. Remember, if you do not correct your child, you prove you do not love your child. As one placed in eldership in the church (speaking not just of my local body, but the church universal) it is my responsibility to point out obvious errors or misunderstanding relating to scripture. I think you err on this aspect. I do not hate Gwen Shamblin. On the contrary, my comments show concern for her and for those who use their materials. Why? Because the issue here is not weight loss, but the eternal souls of those who use this material. I think it would be less loving of me to write off Gwen and all, allowing them to go off in a direction which could place their salvation in jeopardy.

As far as the head/heart issue, I think you should be reminded of what is in scripture. The heart of man is wicked, not good. We are to walk by faith (i.e., belief based on scripture [faith comes by hearing the word of God]) not by sight (what we perceive in our flesh). Just because something "feels" right doesn't mean it is right.

-- Anonymous, January 12, 2001

What ETERNAL difference does it make weather or not Gwen Shamblin has received the revelation that Jesus is God? She honors Jesus as the messiah, the son of God, she doesn't deny His diety. Jesus asked the disciples "...but whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, 'thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God." and oddly enough Jesus did not rebuke him or shun him or call him a cult!! But, what he did say was "...Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my father which is in Heaven...and upon this rock I will build my church..." What on earth was that all about!? Peter never even mentioned that He was God! Is all this 'christian concern' over Mrs. Shamblin reflecting the love of the Christ they are trying so hard to defend?? What is more offensive to me, by far, then a woman who obviously loves the Lord and has devoted her life to sharing the truth He has revealed to her with whomsoever would receive it...is the 'christians' who have made it their business to tear this woman down and cause contention denying millions the freedom from bondage in the name of Jesus that she is offering. How many of the 'christians' so very concerned about Gwen Shamblin's spiritual welfare are actually praying for her and seeking God about this situation? How many have actually done their own in-depth Bible Study on the 'trinity'? I had to laugh at the accusation that her material had "very little theological heft"...if by that the writer meant she didn't have much scriptural backing...I guess they have neither read her writings, heard her semaniars or spoken to any of the thousands concerned that class was 'too spiritual.' On the other hand if they meant there isn't much doctrinal theology perhaps they were right. I read the 'cult of christianity' definition. You know the first thing that came to my mind was the "Left Behind Series"...there are people following that because they are 'christian' but, embrace a particular doctrine taught by the authors namely the 'rapture' and the 'tribulation' that not any group of christians can even agree upon! And worse these are fictional, yet, people accept them as truth. One of the books 'Revelation unveiled' is advertised as non- fiction and the scriptural basis for their series...but, it is sold along side the series lending even more wieght to this FICTION. But, I don't hear any hoopin and hollerin about this or even questioning it. I see churches everyday with 'thimble clubs', 'glee clubs', all kinds of weight classes and excercise classes.....yet, because this woman uses scripture and prayer there are many churches 'pulling the plug' on these uplifting, bondage breaking, classes that give glory to God!!! Paul's advice to the Corinthian church concerning meat sacrificed to idols comes to my mind (chap.8). "...to us there is but one God the Father, to whom are all things, and we in him and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. Howbeit there is not every mand that knowledge...but, TAKE HEED lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak."

James 4:11 "Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge."

-- Anonymous, January 13, 2001

To Tess Marler: Wow!! 3 long paragraphs of glowing appreciation for the truth given to you that set you free from the bondage of food and then.... HOWEVER!?! How could you say "...the program brings people to a closer relationship w/God and understanding of His word"...but, condem the vessel that brings that truth? I shudder to think what treatment poor Apollos would have received had he come speaking and teaching diligently the things of the Lord, KNOWING ONLY THE BAPTISM OF JOHN to this fellowship rather than Aquila and Priscilla!! Can you believe she "MADE MISTAKES"??? In what way in the way you precieve the word of God?? I mean the word 'trinity' DOESN'T exist in the word!!! So why find it so inconceivable to think it's NOT THERE??!! Do you really believe that the Hebrew children were 'stressed' in the same way that Americans are 'stressed' today?!! You made a statement concerning 'issues SHE is so concerned with'...I never heard Mrs. Shamblin ever mention anything to do with any of this prior to these unchristians accusations...I do not believe these are HER issues. She never questioned any student as to THEIR beliefs on the 'trinity'...putting any conditions on giving out the truth God has given her. You believe God will PUNISH Gwen Shamblin?????!!!!! For believing Jesus is the son of God, for believing different than you?? "But, I say unto you, that whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgement: and whosoever shall say to his brother, racca, shall be in danger of the council-but, whosoever shall say thou fool,shall be in danger of hell fire."

-- Anonymous, January 13, 2001

Mr. Dewey, What has the 'trinity' to do with salvation? It actually makes no ETERNAL difference. She believes in one God. She believes Jesus is not only the son of God but, also the one name under heaven by which man can be saved. Not only does she not put any conditions on those who may or may not participate in her classes...she does not exclude ANY

-- Anonymous, January 15, 2001

Dr. Dewey,

Thank you for your guidance. I agree that faith in the traditional view of the Holy Trinity and concern for the salvation of those who reject it does not mean that we don’t love them.

Please forgive me, I did not mean to imply that the heart of a man is good. Quite the contrary. My heart was full of greed for food! My heart needed a good cleansing, but now gets filled with regular feedings of scripture and prayer rather than attempts to fill the hole with food.

If you don’t mind my asking, did you have negative feelings about the program and/or your wife’s involvement in the Weigh Down Workshop before Gwen Shamblin revealed her belief about the Godhead? In my research, I have found many articles criticizing the program since her statement, but I found only one that criticized the program before the statement (and it’s actually dated years before, so I was surprised by it.) Everything else I’ve found from before are positive articles.

-- Anonymous, January 16, 2001

I too am a past participant and coordinator in the WDW program. I was blessed with a much closer relationship with God in my turning my passion for food (or whatever else held my time and affections) into a passion for God. There is something to taking what holds you (our modern day golden calfs and idols) and turning all towards God our creator and Savior and the one who should be the center of our world. It helped me to fall more in love with Him. Of Course He has been great and awesome all of the time, I just spent my time more with food, tv, freetime, sleeping and SELF that I didn't have much desire left for Him. God has used this program to draw many nearer to him and to loose them of their idols. But I too am very bothered by what Gwen is professing. As I look back on the materials now I notice that Jesus name wasn't mentioned very often. But that didn't stop me from worshipping Him or acknowledging that he was the one that had saved me from all these things that held me. Gwen and Whatever people that are invoved in WDW and her "new church" really need our prayers. God can move mountains and wants us to pray and to keep praying. Jesus surely is God and the Savior of the World!!!!!!!

-- Anonymous, January 16, 2001

Great Point Tess!!! Does everyone REALLY believe that ALL Christians believe the same theologies?? And if you don't ... do each of us believe everyone to be incorrect (and perhaps even unsaved) that do NOT believe exactly as we do?? Acts 16:30-31, "...Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house." Weather or not Gwen Shamblin has grasped the entire truth of the Godhead is of no ETERNAL value. But, I am still amazed at the pride and even audacity of some who profess that they HAVE grasped the truth of the Godhead in all entirity and want to enlighten everyone else. Or worse have an even better truth than the Godhead....the 'trinity' doctrine.

-- Anonymous, January 16, 2001

Tess -

I personally had reservations about the Weigh Down program, as did my wife. We had our reservations before these revelations about Gwen's ideas came out. We each had different objections. My objections were based on what I know from one of my other skills - I am a personal fitness trainer - as well a what I perceived as her loose interpretation of Scripture.

My objections to her program was basically:

1) Her excessive use of proof-texting to make points. This is just me personally. Loose proof-texting to me is a warning sign for making mistakes. I have a background with cults (as in, I was in them) so I am very careful about this.

2) The Weigh Down sessions extensively use Gwen's material and nothing else. Teaching at sessions was from Gwen's tapes (either audio of video). Gwen's tapes had to be listened to during the week between sessions. Then there are the Gwen books and workbooks. This is an expensive program! Plus, the exclusiveness of her teaching only takes away from building up the leadership within the group (see my wife's objections below)

3) As a fitness trainer, I am concerned with a program that does not take into consideration ALL the aspects of fitness/health. Diet and nutrition is only one of the aspects.

My wife was a leader in several different Christian weigh loss programs over several years (Free To Be Thin, and First Place). Her experience prior to Weigh Down caused her to voice some concerns too.

1) There is no accountability between the participants. Her preference for programs is First Place, and she leans toward this as a comparison. In First Place the members are paired as prayer and support partners so there is accountability and encouragement between sessions.

2) The Bible study in Weigh Down is not as high quality as in First Place. (I'm not exactly sure what she meant by that, except how it relates to the following points.)

3) Weigh Down does not develop the group members as potential Christians and as leaders. Since the lectures are on tape, there is not the interaction which would take place if there was a live teacher. Plus, at least one member of the group is denied the ability to develop teaching gifts because no one is teaching anything.

4) The material is very restrictive, in both content and price. Ordering from Weigh Down proved to be a difficult experience. The organization is very inflexible. To get "credit" for being a participant, specific material must be purchased. We never understood the reasoning behind the time limits involved in the course. (When she called because our church had someone who wanted to purchase books, but not sign up for the course at that time, she was told that only those who's name was on the group list could purchase materials. For second year participants, they had to pay the fee for second year materials. No one can 'officially' take a first year twice, it seems. The whole situation was very confusing.)

Her conclusion was that the preferable program was First Place. It combined sensible eating plans with accountability and exercise, and allowed for the local congregation to tailor the Bible study to its own needs. It also helped build up the local body, requiring the development of leadership and teachers. First Place was more of a 'win/win' for the local church, while Weigh Down was too restrictive.

-- Anonymous, January 16, 2001

I attended a weighdown workshop and had some success. However I stopped the class because I felt the teachings were putting me under more bondage with regard to food. So my question is where do you go when you have a REAL PROBLEM (STRONGHOLD) with food!! Any sincere suggestions welcome!

Joy, Belfast.

-- Anonymous, January 16, 2001

Dear Mr. Dewey, I was wondering if you would mind explaining what you meant by "excessive proof-texting". I did not understand that statement. I wondered why anyone would find it strange to take a course developed by someone that only used their own material. I would have thought it strange if someone developed a program and then used other people's material! I too was a fitness trainer. I worked in a fitness center for 5 years. I did not find it at all strange that Gwen's program focuses on only one aspect of fitness/health anymore than I would find it strange for any other diet/nutrition program to focus on diet/nutrition or a weight training program to focus on wieghts ect. It is sad that your class did not have the accountablity factor. I read the book on my own several years ago. And then shared it with other freinds and family members. Eventually my daughter became a Co- ordinator. We have great accountablity in our class. My daughter has been a wonderful teacher. She has taken this and run with it. She spends several hours a week typing up her own notes and hand-out sheets. I certainly would love to have more personal interaction with Gwen but, as is often the case with a program of this magnitude it is difficult if not impossible to meet with every class. But, I have found that between the books, tapes etc as well as the emails and other online rescources I feel as if I have personal one on one time. I have never heard of 'First Place' so I would not comment on it. I wonder what the results have been. What is the fruit? I am sure different Biblically based programs may work better for different people...why does one have negate the other? I personally have lost over 15lbs and 36" in WeighDown and my family has lost well over 200 lbs together. It has strengthened us as Christians, as family and has given us renewed hope and energy. I thank God for the truth that He has given to Gwen Shamblin and for her obedience in sharing that truth. As for the $$. I find that a poor excuse. When I think of the amount of money we spend on frivilous things...to say that a program of this worth and value is too expensive is just that...an excuse.

-- Anonymous, January 23, 2001

All- All I have to say is this...if we are confessing to be true Christians, and we in fact disagree with the Gwen Shamblin approach, and we are believing that she is in fact wrong for any of her beliefs and doings, then we as Christians need to pray for her soul. We need to stop this judgment passing on Gwen and let God take over from here. We must still love Gwen and her passion for Christ, but need to pray to have her soul saved as we need to pray to have ours saved as well. NO, I do not believe as she does about the Trintiy- I never will. However, Gwen has been either mis-lead by others or has taken on an approach all of her own. Nonetheless, we are still Christians passing a jugdment that needs to stop. We have a responsibilty to our own souls first but also to lead others to Christ as the calling falls upon us. This may be a calling of many to conquer one that has gone astray. Lisa

-- Anonymous, February 17, 2001

Amen, Lisa! I've heard about as much christianity (Christ-like behavior) in this educated carping about Gwen I as would have heard in a crowd of high-school students griping about the new prom queen. I've taken the weigh down workshop twice and it changed my life. I have been on the fringes of belief most of my life. I wanted to believe but somehow just could not make the leap--even though I had listened to many, many degree-toting, doctorine-following ministers over the years. Gwen's program helped me find a personal connection with God in a way I had not experienced before. No, I don't agree with every word that she says, although the things I disagree with are not the same things you all are debating. It just doesn't matter. She helped me find my way to God. It may be true that Gwen does not have a religious degree; I don't know and don't care. Some one mentioned that Billy Graham doesn't have a degree. Well, neither did Paul, or Luke or John... you get my drift. Oh, O.K. She makes money at this. Last time I looked my Methodist minister was getting paid. And his money making efforts take place in a church! Ohhhh--she makes a LOT of money doing this! Is that anti-Christian of her? Or is it jealousy on your part? Gwen speaks of a loving, generous God who takes care of his children. I kind of like that idea. Does your version of God embrace the idea that only proverty and hardships flow from God? My sister has gone to Weight Watchers for years and spent thousands of dollars (and is no thinner). The most you can spend on WDW is $156. Has anyone noticed that most of the people in this forum critizing Gwen are men and most of the people defending her are women? Could it be that men just can't stand to see a woman do well in what they consider to be "their" territory? Leave her alone. She's not perfect; who is? But she's doing good work in the best way she knows. I think it's disgraceful that her book was held up because of mean-spirited, nit-picking people like you.

Leah Musser

-- Anonymous, March 03, 2001

Why is it that whenever someone takes a stand for correct doctrine, they are labeled "mean-spirited" and dismissed? And by Christians yet?

1 Timothy 1:3 "... command certain men not to teach false doctrines any any longer."

I Timothy 4:6 "Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers."

2 Timothy 4:3 "For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear."

Titus 1:9 "[The Lord's servant] must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it.

-- Anonymous, March 05, 2001

Dear Teri B.-

I’m sorry it’s taken me so long to respond, but I needed time to pray for guidance and to do the necessary research and reading of the Word.

You asked about proof-texting. It is using scripture to support one position or another. It can often be misused to present scripture out of context. That’s the reason why we must read several verses before and after any quotation we hear or use to support or refute a teaching and still view it within the context of the Bible as a whole. Double checking proof-texting in this way has been a great help in my Christian life in understanding difficult teachings and keeping cults at bay.

I’ll try to answer your other questions. The eternal difference it makes whether or not Gwen Shamblin has received the revelation that Jesus is God is her eternal salvation. You cannot mess around with the nature of Jesus without messing around with salvation in Him. If you don’t believe He’s who He is, then your salvation cannot be in Him. I disagree with Gwen’s statement that her view is simple enough that any child can understand it. When I was a child, I felt exactly the opposite. I had been taught the Ten Commandments, and I didn’t understand why I should pray in the name of Jesus Christ because I would be worshipping two gods. That’s when my Sunday School teacher explained the Holy Trinity to me. I accepted it as a child does, but grew to have a better understanding of it with time. I do not pretend to understand it completely, but try to accept what I can’t fathom with the faith of a child. The nature of the Holy Trinity (which is the name given to the representation of the Godhead in the Bible as three in one) is referred to as a mystery, but definitely that Christ is God. One example is 1 Timothy 3:15-16.

Jesus did not rebuke, shun or call Simon Peter a cult because what Simon Peter spoke was the truth. Jesus is most certainly the “Christ, the Son of the living God.” That fact is part of the definition of the Holy Trinity, but does not mean we are to ignore the many (contrary to the statement that there are only a few) references to him also being God, from both Old and New Testament sources. There are many more references I can share if you are interested. Feel free to e-mail me at tessmom_2000@yahoo.com.

In the case of many responses here and mine, yes, “all this Christian concern over Mrs. Shamblin’s views reflects the love of Christ” we are defending. As I said before, many others and I pray for her daily. We are heartbroken over her mistake and the resulting break we’ve had to make from the program, which I will discuss later. We are not trying to “tear her down, cause contention or deny millions the freedom from bondage in the name of Jesus that she is offering.” When Christians, especially those as experienced in the faith as Gwen Shamblin is by this time begin to teach messages so contrary to the message presented in both testaments of the Bible about the nature of the Godhead, it should come as no surprise that the false teaching will and should be scrutinized. Although I had success participating in the Weigh Down Workshop, I disagree with Gwen Shamblin on the Holy Trinity issue and concede that her way to weight loss and strongholds is not the only way. Many of us have and continue to do much in- depth Bible study on the Holy Trinity. I don’t think the analogy to the current popularity of the “Left Behind” series quite fits this discussion properly. The differing views on the actual events that will take place at the end times are not a salvation issue. They will happen how God says they will happen, but all who believe on Christ will have eternal life, even if they’ve never heard of escatology before passing away or are taken if still alive at that time. If Christ is not who He is, then we never had salvation in Him to begin with.

I’m not sure I understand your issues with the Left Behind series. They are fictional events, based on a framework of the authors’ research into what the events of the end times will be, as described in the Bible. My husband is currently reading the series and fully understands its fictional nature. He says that they have sparked his interest in reading the Bible to find out exactly what it does tell us about the end times. He said the Revelation Unveiled book is the result of the authors’ research, without the creative license and he doesn’t see that it is meant to lend any credibility to the happenings of the series outside of the Biblical framework referenced. I would guess that’s why you aren’t hearing much negative about them.

The reason churches are “pulling the plug” on Weigh Down is not that she uses scripture and prayer toward the end of weight loss, but because of her anti-Trinitarian statements and the starting of The Remnant Fellowship Church by her and Mr. Shamblin, which teaches an anti-Trinitarian doctrine. As I have stated in a past posting, most information I found about Gwen Shamblin and the Weigh Down Workshop dated before the anti-Trinitarian statements are positive ones.

Yes, I very much appreciate all that I learned about diet, idolatry and bondage from participation in the Weigh Down Workshop and from reading The Weigh Down Diet and Rise Above. I don’t condemn Gwen Shamblin, but pray for her always that her eyes may be opened to her mistake before it’s too late. I feel certain it was in God’s plan for Apollos to be intercepted by Aquilla and Priscilla so he could be taught “the rest of the story”. What he was teaching was not necessarily wrong, just incomplete, and he accepted the correction gladly. I don’t understand what’s so surprising about the feeling that Gwen Shamblin made a mistake. I make mistakes, as do we all. A Christian sister from my church lovingly corrected me for something I said just last week and I was thankful for her guidance. Even the disciples were corrected on occasion. It’s my understanding that the only human folks who were/are never wrong were Jesus Christ and prophets. I see no evidence to support the notion of Gwen Shamblin being a prophet.

No, her mistake doesn’t have anything to do with my perception of the word of God, but with misinterpreting the nature of Christ as described in the Old and New Testaments of the Bible. I don’t pretend to know what it was that led her to her conclusion.

Feelings of “Stress” are a result of a stressor. Yes, the Hebrew slaves felt ‘stressed’ as we feel ‘stressed’ today, it’s the stressors that are different for us. We are no less in bondage as Christians that allow ourselves to be bound by certain strongholds than the Hebrews were bound in slavery. That’s the whole point of the Weigh Down Workshop.

It sounds like maybe you missed the leadup to Gwen Shamblin’s anti- Trinitarian teachings that began last summer. She began discussing her views in e-mails as early as mid-August, 2000. Those e-mails were later removed from the archive and incorporated into a culminating e-mail dated September 12, 2000 to teach her anti- Trinitarian veiws and to respond to the scrutiny she found her beliefs under. She then posted the teaching as part of the FAQ section of the website. She and her husband also started the church that I mentioned around that time. Her teachings came to national attention as a result of so many of us being shocked and upset by her statements and turning to our Bibles and spiritual leaders for guidance. You quoted a scripture about being angry with a brother without a cause. I don’t believe I ever said that I was angry with or at Gwen Shamblin, rather, heartbroken for her.

Your family has a wonderful testimony and I’m glad to hear it. It’s a testimony to God and his power when we turn to him. Though we can be grateful to Gwen for introducing us to the philosophies she taught us, making us aware of our sin and bondage with regard to overeating, all the glory, honor and praise must go to our heavenly Father. If your daughter is as passionate as you sound, I’m sure she devotes her whole heart and is a wonderful leader, as was ours. We had completed two sessions with our leader (and my dear friend) when the information about Gwen’s beliefs became known. We wrestled with whether or not to continue for a long time and did a lot of praying and research. I can remember her saying after reading The Weigh Down Diet that she felt like running through the street yelling about her newfound freedom. Before we started the first session with her as our leader, she had lost 85 pounds. Her final decision was that she would be willing to help a new leader take over and continue the program if the group felt it appropriate to continue, but felt she personally could no longer support the program by collecting money that might go to support The Remnant Fellowship and anti-Trinitarian teachings. Weigh Down is a for-profit organization, not that we think it’s not OK to support yourself in ministry, but that the profits will be supporting something we feel is a false teaching and a salvation issue. Although many of us had already completed the program twice and wouldn’t have had to pay anything more to participate, some had not and would have had to pay again, besides those that we were sure we would want to bring with us in the future, like the lady who had come to Christ in our last session. None of us wanted to just quit, but we all agreed we should go in a different direction. Our leader offered to start leading us in a strongholds study by Beth Moore (Freedom from Spiritual Strongholds) in which we can apply the teachings to our food issues. All of the other Christian weight loss programs we found included diet rules, etc. that we had just torn ourselves away from. After we started the new study, our leader shared that she felt just as excited about it as she had about reading The Weigh Down Diet. It’s a great study and I highly recommend it as an alternative for those of you who need further assistance but don’t feel you can continue with the Weigh Down Workshop. Churches that have a problem with continuing the program will not be denying freedom to millions by not offering the Weigh Down program. Through our heartbreak, we have come to realize that there are other wonderful programs out there.

Dear Joy S.-

We are now participating in a strongholds study by Beth Moore called Freedom from Spiritual Strongholds. It’s a great study. I would be happy to send you any information you would like. If you are interested, e-mail me at tessmom_2000@yahoo.com

Dear Leah-

I agree that things that are not salvation issues are not worth debating among those whose faith is weak or new and not equipped to handle them. Although we are not capable of understanding the mind of God in it’s entirety, it’s really fun to try, but it’s important to make sure we keep the personal attacks out of it. However, it is important to discuss salvation issues with anyone who may be at risk, and messing with the nature of Christ is certainly a salvation issue. If we take away from Christ who He is, then we never had salvation in Him to begin with. It doesn’t have anything to do with Gwen Shamblin or Billy Graham having or not having a theology degree or making money from their efforts or to divide women against men in this forum. The original question asked how we felt about the possibility of terminating the program at our churches. Gwen’s book was not held up because of “mean-spirited, nit-picking people.” Although I feel reasonably certain she had the good sense not to include the anti-Trinitarian teaching in the third book, the book was terminated by the Christian Publisher (I believe it was Thomas Nelson Publishing) because of the public revelation of her teachings elsewhere. She had to know there would be consequences for her actions. By the way, Billy Graham teaches the Holy Trinity and I’m including some statements from the Looking for Answers section of his website at www.billygraham.org at the end of my post.

Dear Dr. Dewey-

Thank you for sharing your feelings and for yours and your wife’s suggestions. If you read the above, you saw what the final decision was for our group and why we are now participating in a strongholds study instead of the Weigh Down Workshop. We are still having amazing success with weight loss, Praise the Lord! I absolutely agree that loose proof-texting is a precursor for making mistakes and we must be very careful about it. I find the Bible study in Freedom From Spiritual Strongholds to be much more in-depth than was Weigh Down, but I probably would never have seen that had we not decided to go in another direction!

Dear John W.-

I, too, am baffled by the seeming lack of understanding about the intentions of this discussion. I’ve been trying very hard to answer the questions respectfully. If I’ve failed, I’m very sorry. It’s not my intention to hurt or accuse anyone, but to share my feelings and speak the truth.

Blessings to all of you.

*The following are statements from the Looking for Answers section of Billy Graham’s website at www.billygraham.org.

Can you explain the Trinity to me? The Bible shows very clearly that there is only one God, and yet that there are three personal distinctions in His complex nature, traditionally referred to as "three Persons in the Godhead,"--God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. Each is distinct from the others but never acts independently. They are one in nature and purpose. This mystery is called the doctrine of the Trinity, though that term is not used in the Bible. The teaching, however, is present in seed form in the Old Testament and is revealed explicitly in the New Testament. Note passages such as Matthew 28:19; John 10:30, 14:26; 2 Corinthians 13:14. Our finite minds cannot understand or explain this mystery of God, which is nevertheless a fact. We must accept the truths found in the Word of God by faith even though we ourselves cannot comprehend them fully; read Hebrews 11:1,3,6 and 1 Corinthians 2:5-10;14; 13:12. It is really not surprising that the infinite God should be complex in His nature beyond the ability of finite humans to comprehend! This doctrine is absolutely essential to New Testament Christianity. Theologians have pointed out that if it were not true, the Bible would be unreliable, Christ would not be divine, and His death on the cross would not atone for our sins, being merely the death of a martyr.

Is Jesus God? In their book ANSWERS TO TOUGH QUESTIONS SKEPTICS ASK ABOUT THE CHRISTIAN FAITH, Josh McDowell and Don Stewart state the following: "Among the religious leaders who have attained a large following throughout history, Jesus Christ is unique in the fact that He alone claimed to be God in human flesh. . . . The claims of Christ are many and varied. He said that He existed before Abraham (John 8:58), and that He was equal with the Father (John 5:17-18). Jesus claimed the ability to forgive sins (Mark 2:5-7), which the Bible teaches was something that God alone could do (Isaiah 43:25). "The New Testament equated Jesus as the creator of the universe (John 1:3), and that He is the one who holds everything together (Colossians 1:17). The apostle Paul says that God was manifest in the flesh (1 Timothy 3:16, KJV), and John the evangelist says that 'the Word was God' (John 1:1). The united testimony of Jesus and the writers of the New Testament is that He was more than mere man; He was God. . . . "Yes, Jesus claimed to be God. Why should anyone believe it? After all, merely claiming to be something does not make it true. Where's the evidence that Jesus is God? "The Bible gives various reasons, including miracles and fulfilled prophecy, that are intended to convince us that Jesus is the one whom He said He was (John 20:30-31). The main reason, or the sign which Jesus himself said would demonstrate that He was the Son of God, was His resurrection from the dead." Most importantly, countless people for almost 2000 years have discovered that Jesus Christ alone can meet the deepest longings and needs of the human heart. He can do this because He was God in human form, and He was raised from the dead by the power of God. He is alive today, and He wants to enter your life right now. Do not be blinded by your own ideas or the ideas of others regarding religious truth. Look at Christ, and when you do you will realize that in Christ alone "are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge" (Colossians 2:3). See Steps To Peace With God.

If Jesus is God, why does the Bible talk about Him praying to God? Since the Bible affirms that Jesus is God, it is often perplexing to note that Jesus addresses God in prayer. The answer to this, as well as to all references to Jesus as tired, hungry, weeping, lacking knowledge, etc., is that Jesus was a true man, as well as God. The second Person of the Trinity, God the Son, took upon Himself complete humanity, except for our sinful nature, when He was conceived in Mary. He is described by theologians as one Divine Person having two natures, divine and human--the God-man. Passages of Scripture which describe Jesus' limitations are referring to His humanity. He lived His life as a true man, depending upon His heavenly Father day by day, just as we are expected to do. Many believe that even His miracles and supernatural knowledge were enabled by the Holy Spirit, not accomplished by switching back and forth between His divine and human natures. When Jesus cried from the cross, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" He was expressing from His human consciousness the terrible sense of being separated from His heavenly Father as He suffered the penalty for the world's sin. He, of course, with respect to His divine nature, could not suffer or die. In all of this great mystery, we have only glimmers of truth which is beyond human comprehension.

-- Anonymous, March 12, 2001

God IS the Father, son,and Holy Spirit! I too participated in Weigh Down and lost a significant amount of weight. Why? Because my best friend and I held each other accountable. I could not call Gwen to see if I was doing it right, but I relied on my relationship with God. If Iwas spending time in the word,everything in my life went smoother. I ate between the realms of hunger and fullness. I quit weighdown be cause of time constraints, but here's here workshop in a nutshell! Eat when you're hungry, stop when you're full. It doesn't take a Ph.D. to figure out that one! Let God be your conscience. Men are not perfect and will dissapoint yo every time!

-- Anonymous, March 13, 2001

Some of you are missing a major point. The problem is, that the people on this post that are discrediting WDW haven't a clue what it is about. First, it has nothing to do with how you look. Use this example: a person has emotional problems and they turn to drugs or drinking to numb the pain when they should be turning to God. Same with food. People use food to block pain, and anger and boredom. Food is not a recreation.

The people that are sucessful with WDW are the people who realize this ins't a "diet". In fact we are taught that diets are bad. Diets are just pure obsession with our bodies. Instead of reading diet magazines and dwelling on how large your thighs are compared to the lady sitting next to, try talking to God. People's obsession with food and dieitng and exercise is sin. Its obession on anything but God. That is what WDW is about. Its not about getting into a size 8 its about not using food as a crutch or an excuse but instead going to God as he wants you to. This bickering is ridiculous. If people find spritual enlightment from WDW, I ask you, where is the harm???

Glutony is a sin....stop obesesing about wordly things and turn to God.

As I final note, for all of you that are hung up on the finacial aspect. I have never paid a dime. Gwen, gives scholarships to churchs and free books. If you have a problem with money, they won't turn you away. I pray that those of you who are clueless as to the teachings in WDW investigate your claims before you try to convince people otherwise. Go to the libary and check out her book. You never know, maybe God will change your heart too, like he changed mine.

-- Anonymous, April 02, 2001

I am saddened by this attack on Gwen. I purchased the weighdown at home series and have lost 4 dress sizes in the last year. I had gained the weight from taking medication and had faithfully tried many others diets and could not lose more tham six pounds. I believe weigh down is inspired by God and I have seen many other people lose large amounts of weight. Gwen does not say not to exercise- she says not to use exercise to control your weight. My relationship with the Lord has grown tremendously because of WD and I know the Holy Spirit is the one who works in this program. The Bible says that we are not to judge least we be judged. What man knows the heart of other men? The program cost money-so what. It is money well spent. Other Christian items cost money: tapes and CD's, books, Bibles, Ministers, why would we expect these people to give us these things free? Where does it say in the Bible that a person must have a degree in anything to teach God's word? A wonderful example is Joyce Myer, she only graduated from highschool and look how large her ministy is. It seems to me that Michael would have been better off praying for Gwen if he believes the rumor instead of spreading the rumor! I look at how much time people spend arguing over interpretaions in the Bible. Why do you think there are so many different denominations and types of churches? What difference does it make if Gwen did say what you accuse her of? The only thing I see is the fruit of weigh down. The program is not of a cult nature. The program is full of Bible based scripture and only leads it's participants to love the Lord with all their hearts. There isn't focus on Gwen and her greatness, only her constant comments on loving the Lord with all your heart. This is a good thing. I believe this is how the Salem witch hunts got started- a well meaning man, and look how many innocent women were killed!!!!!!

-- Anonymous, April 29, 2001

One word: kneejerk. (Or is that two words?)

Its painfully obvious Gail hasn't read one word of this entire thread, not one of the reasoned arguments and concerns regarding Gwen's confused theology. Women: STOP accepting everything you hear based on your feelings and start using your God-given reasoning abilities! (This, by the way, is why I believe women are not allowed positions of leadership in the church, because they are given to be "silly", as Paul puts it.)

Gail's test of truth? "[I] have lost 4 dress sizes in the last year and I have seen many other people lose large amounts of weight, [therefore] I believe weigh down is inspired by God." *SIGH*

And I think if I hear one more person say "the Bible says that we are not to judge" out of context like this I am just going to SCREAM!

-- Anonymous, April 29, 2001

I'm still incredulous (not to mention righteously indignant), so those of you who are regulars, please forgive me as I go on ...

The Bible says that we are not to judge least we be judged.

So let me see ... I seem to remember hearing a lot about people who are church members, who secretly hold satanic rituals in church, torturing, molesting and killing babies. We should let them believe what they believe, since they claim to be Christians, and we shouldn't judge them or speak out against them, right?

It seems to me that Michael would have been better off praying for Gwen if he believes the rumor instead of spreading the rumor!

First, it's far from being a "rumor" ... Gwen posted her heretical beliefs on her own website! Second, while we indeed should be praying for Gwen, if we did not shout the error from the watchtowers the blood would be on our heads as well.

Why do you think there are so many different denominations and types of churches?

Gwen, did you know that in all of those "different denominations and types of churches", most of the disagreement with each other is on two things: how the church should be governed and how God imparts His grace? Every single church and denomination that is orthodox in its Christianity accepts that there is one God in three Persons. That is a foundational, core, bedrock test of orthodoxy. Gwen's view is an ancient heresy (and the church called it that 1500 years ago, so we are not "witch hunters") known as Arianism. It is the same thing the Jehovah's Witnesses, the Way International and the Christadelphians believe. And no church would deny these are cults.

What difference does it make if Gwen did say what you accuse her of?

Excuse me? What difference does it make? First of all, we are not accusing her, she has stated it publically. There is no "if". Calling us "accusers" is just being inflammatory. Secondly, it makes all the difference. Jesus said that knowing God was essential to eternal life. If you blow it on your theology, you might as well throw in the towel on everything else.

The only thing I see is the fruit of weigh down. What about the fruit of the Mormons? They have all those good family programs, and all you have to do is accept that there are really many gods and you can become one yourself. Yet you say we should look past the faulty theology and just accept them because of their "fruits."

I believe this is how the Salem witch hunts got started- a well meaning man, and look how many innocent women were killed!!!!!!

This is a straw-man argument, for this is not how the Salem witch hunts got started. Unfortunately, it is how most of the cults in America have started, because the church turned a blind eye to them in the beginning, not wanting to be "judgmental", not wanting to take a stand for truth and denounce false doctrine.

It is also an ad hominem, accusing us of being nothing less than people who would desire to murder the innocent. It is inflammatory and beneath someone who claims to be Christian to even be making such a comparison. You might have just as well called us all Nazis.

-- Anonymous, April 29, 2001

Exactly Danny!! Today even in the church the ends justify the means. If it looks good, or does at least some good it must be right…there is NO consideration of checking things against the Word.

John, I agree wholeheartedly about women letting their feelings rule in making decisions or accepting certain things. And I am with you in that God did not allow women positions in leadership of His Church because we do tend to be "silly". Our emotions and feelings too often lead us down the wrong path.

Gail…you said: "I believe weigh down is inspired by God" The only words we have today that are inspired are found in the Word of God…2 Tim 3:16-17 "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work." …And NOT the words of any men or women today. Please do not forget the warning in Revelation concerning Adding or taking away from the word of God. It is complete. Neither Gwen Shamblin nor her words are inspired.

You also say: "The Bible says that we are not to judge least we be judged." I would encourage you to look up in a concordance all the references to judging in the New Testament and see what God has to say about Christians judging.

Our errors come as Jesus says because we do not know the word, and the reason there are so many different denominations is because of that error. Mark 12:24 Jesus replied, "Are you not in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God?

-- Anonymous, April 30, 2001

Like many Christians, it is clear Gwen Shamblin is not grounded in the basics of Christianity, foremost among them being the Trinity.

Judge not, eh? Explain the above then.

key words, Like many Christians. What a heartbreaker.

-- Anonymous, May 01, 2001

Okay, it appears here that you believe women are not supposed to be in a leadership role in the church. However, what about the women who do in the NT?

-- Anonymous, May 01, 2001

I said…"Our emotions and feelings too often lead us down the wrong path." …meaning women. More and more today though, unfortunately this problem is not exclusive to women.

"…what about the women who do in the NT?" Give some scriptural examples of this.

Please start another thread though…this one is so long that I can no longer down load it…it took me all evening to get here.

Gail, if you come back in and respond, please also start another thread, I am sure I am not the only one having trouble downloading this thread.

-- Anonymous, May 02, 2001

Everyone has to speak for there own salvation. I been through Gwen program and did well. The whole ideal is for you yourself, to have a personal relationship with God. For those who think it cost to much anything worth a change within one self is costly one way or another. Gwen doesn't force anyone to join her program. Stay fat and unhappy with yourself or let God change your heart.

-- Anonymous, May 03, 2001

hello, I went through the weighdown program 3 years ago. at one point I met and spoke to gwen at a booksigning. she was interested in my story because I had lost a significant amount of weight(150+ lb.).I was absolutely heartbroken to see what has happened to her. I can only assume she was never a believer in Christ.I thought my whole Lifes-purpose would be showing others the weighdown program and its ability to build a closer relationship with God(which it did for me).I have sort of been drifting , not knowing what direction to move in.I dont know if any of you can relate but I was a person that was convinced God could never use me for anything, then this program comes along and I have this wonderful story .I know it was God who made everything happen,who delivered me from this terrible bondage.those of you who are bashing the program or can't understand some peoples reactions should put yourself in the same position. imagine that sin that you struggle with.the one you lose to more than you win. (we all have them,greed,lust,alcohol,pornography,etc.).now imagine being delivered from it.forever.and the person who intoduced you to God in this awesome way reveals she is a heretic.what do you do? I couldn't believe it til I read it in her own words on her website.I still have a great affection for her and I pray God will open her eyes.if He could save Paul , is anyone beyond hope.please dont misunderstand me, I have thrown out all of her tapes,books, and literature.I can only wait and see what this AWSOME GOD that she speaks of but does not know will do. please pray for Gwen. what a testimony it would make if God convicted her and saved her.thanks for letting me say my own story. greg

-- Anonymous, June 06, 2001

I think the tension is between Gwen having some good ideas and following THEM, versus following GWEN. I think some of her ideas are sound (eat only when hungry, stop when satisfied, make no food "off limits", seek God when tempted instead of turning to food). I believe you can be a Christian and follow this advice, no matter who gives it. The sticky point is, of course, defining who God is to Gwen. And this is where I think you have to draw the line.

My struggle has been to follow the good points of her plan, making it my own, and not feel that I am following heretical teaching. Because she is a heretic (being unsound doctrinally) I naturally want to fight against following any of her advice, so I have often thrown out the baby with the bathwater.

If Gwen's program were not offered through Christian churches I think people would be much less gullible about her doctrine. Personally, I went through the program and found no problems with the doctrine (except excessive use of the "exodus" theme) until I saw her statements on the Trinity on her website.

-- Anonymous, January 16, 2002